Dani,

I'm crying for you. I know how bad you're hurting. I'm thinking that right now you should be looking for resources on co-dependency, as a lot of what you're going through sounds like that to me.

Here's my opinion. This is proving just what a selfish jerk he's turning into. You have a child in a major crisis, but he's determined to chisel at you while you're weak. Right now, it's all about him. Hon, you just don't have enough energy left over to be dealing with that bull. Maybe a different form of Plan B may be in order. When he contacts you, tell him that all of your time and energy need to go to helping your child, and that if the conversation isn't going towards that goal than you aren't able to participate. If he was anything less than 100% selfish, he'd be doing that. Instead, he's hitting you while you're down.

Don't let him take the emotional resources that you need for your child and suck them dry.

And I'm still reeling about how he can't trust you. I think you babbled back at him just right.

Dobie

WOW! Ok Dani...Your WH is really deep into that fog...so deep he is justifying NOT taking care of his own children! WOW! This is what I would suggest you do, not that it is right, but *I* would go ahead and transfer that money on Monday...I would also contact his CO and let him in on what he is doing or NOT doing for his family! What I am wondering is why is he asking for money? Isn't he the one that MAKES the money? He works right? He has the job!

My son was also diagnosed with bipolar right in the middle of the A...I swear there were days when I thought I would beat myself to death! I fought for over 9 months for my *H* to come home...he would come home, then leave, come home, then leave...My kids were a MESS!

I remember going to the DR with my son and he would throw his rages and I would just sit there. For me having my WH in the house was even more stressful dealing with him...AS WH was not in the frame of mind to even comprehend what was happening with DS6, he couldnt' be compassionate with him..he coulnd't understand him...he would only get angrier with him...

Now that WH has been out of the house for almost 4 months now consistently, we have gotten into a great routine. I am much more patient with DS6...As is he with me...I find that when *I* am a mess, so is he...Now, you have to understand my eldest son 9 y/o is severley ADHD...and my youngest...well, he's a mes too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Dani, I was at a point in my life exactly where you were! I wanted my WH back no matter what! I couldnt' survive without him...I was a mess! Today, I am happier without the WH! I still miss my *H*...but not the man he was last year! You WILL get thru this! It WILL get easier! and You WILL be able to raise those kids alone! Even with the bipolar! Is he on medication yet? I find that if I miss even ONE dose of any of his 5 meds, he is out of whack...The meds help stablize him and when he is stablized you are stablized and vice versa! Hang in there Dani!

You have your own bank account, right? I also suggest telling his CO what he's doing .. and moving ASAP.

Your children and you need some stability.

If you are screeening his calls .. .keep all the messages, tape them on something else too (cassette, CD) so you can give a copy to the CO and to a judge *if* you need to make a case for stay away orders.

Always keep copies of every thing he says and does, action, words, threats, etc.

way2

Dani,

Got thinking about the bi-polar stuff. Is his diagnosis based on behavior before the family problems, or did they start more recently? I just wanted to be sure that your son isn't being diagnosed for something that's a response to a sitation vice a true disorder.

Dobie

Please please go dark Dani.

Your child needs to see a child psychologist, somebody who is well versed in childhood issues. He is your first priority now ok?

Your xh is almost criminally foggy as of now. You being in contact with him gives you a "payback" of sorts...an emotional "high". Dr. Phil says we all get "paybacks" even from doing the wrong things in our life or we'd quit doing them. I believe you honestly deep down think that if he hears your voice enough, or your speak gently to him enough, or if you pound out enough tough love at him, he will "wake up and smell the coffee" and end the destructive affair. Meanwhile, you get your "fix"...it doesn't work, so you try harder to get the resolution you want next time.

It is a vicious cycle you have NO CHOICE but to extricate yourself from. I know. I tried that. Until I gained peace from distance, I was unable to make the best decisions for myself and my child. He is keeping you from doing that. And right now your boy needs his mommy to be able to think clearly for him. He needs ONE responsible and strong parent.

Your wh is sucking the life out of you. You gotta cut the rope now. It is time. For a serious darkly serious plan B.

You need to also tape the calls. He is attempting to extort money from you. He is also threatening non-support of your children if he is not given "affair" money aka tax money to piddle around with and to transfer into her account. You also need to get the money path on paper. Your wh claims he's going to be there for the kids in one breath, and in the next breath he is threatening to not provide for him....stable guy huh? My xh used to do same things. He would yell, demand, and rage to get his way if it involved him getting his cake eating accomplished. He knows now you won't allow a little cake eating on the side. The all or nothing concept is a PLOY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When he contacts you, tell him that all of your time and energy need to go to helping your child, and that if the conversation isn't going towards that goal than you aren't able to participate. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please don't do this. Because he'll start going on about the good times, and then start to argue with you again. He'll snake you into a discussion. And you'll feel bad again. You already said it all in the PBL. There's nothing more to say. If he doesn't get it, he doesn't get it, and he doesn't get that he doesn't get it.

While recorded threats and manipulations might be useful in court, if it gets too much (phone call a minute, etc.) why not just unplug the phone? Or turn the ringer to "off" and put the message machine under a pillow. Or in another room. Or have the calls forwarded to your MIL.

Or better yet, have a friend stay with you and she can answer the phone.

I agree with AM Martin and Justpeachy which is why I suggested only taping the answering machine/voicemail messages. You shouldn't talk to him AT ALL ... have an intermediary relay messages.

You need to go dark plan B .. DO NOT talk to him or let him give you and emotional fix ... he is an alien right now.

But you also need to gather evidence .. and be a Girl Scout .. be prepared, talk to his CO ... BUT NOT TO HIM.

My mother was my intermediary when divorcing H#1 ... it took me years to feel strong enough to deal with him. Now he calls to talk to me, just talk, when his wife of 10+ years is away ... okay that's really weird and I do impose boundaries here.

way2

OOPS... Concept is a ploy WS use to turn the guilt onto the BS. Let's repharaphrase this...Danielle, you are all about all or nothing when it comes to us...What he is saying is "how dare you Danielle tell me I can't get my way". When you think of that, it changes doesn't it? Changes the translation.

He is utterly foggy.

Court was a giant thing for me. It allowed me to see for 1st time how my then wh had changed. Has he done anything different since that time to make you think he is worthy of contact? Nope. He's worse imho.

I would also keep my distance from him as he sounds as though he has repressed rage..could hear it in his words about you needing to just do what he says do (regarding tax money) and his incessant calls demanding the money.

He will do whatever he can and whatever he will to get the money. His affair needs money right now. Don't feed the affair. He will be outta a job in a while. OW is kicked out of military. Either they get money now and have a few weeks of fun...remember he said "I am having too much fun now?"...they want fun with your tax money so they won't have to worry about having to get a job and flip fries for a while to pay for their torrid little romance.

And please know, I am saying this to shock you into reality...to save yourself pain, and agony. You need peace of mind and clarity right now. Your son needs peace of mind. He sees his mom so upset...it is hurting him. You have to do your best to keep things together for him. Yes, it's ultimately your x's fault, but you are in the home with son. He's reacting and lashing out at something he is seeing. No your xh said what he said to hurt you about son being ill...but in the end, you gotta pull it together to keep your son together. And that will take you not listening to the rantings of a person who is temporarily insane and immoral. You gotta find peace.

And being on the other side now, divorced...I can attest that I will never be friends with my xh. Or the ow/wife. They did it all. He said all he could say to me. He did not get the fantasy he wanted. I extricated myself from it to save myself. My son doesn't see his mom upset any more. I am moving on and ahead. The whole fricnd concept is nice...but it's a fantasy. Its' a copout to get what he wants.

Here is what your wh wants as of today:
acceptance of his affair and partner,
money from your joint taxes to fuel his affair,
you to back off legally in both divorce and other legal proceedings,
an easy divorce,
access to the kids and probably with his innuendo in being able to spend more time with kids, I would assume he intends to pay less alimony and child support.

He is asking you if he can make you "good" with him taking everything basically...

He is a WS. You can't communicate with a WS. It's impossible. You at the same time also need to evaluate why you need to get this "fix" from continued contact with him.

I agree w/poster who says you should have a relative move in with you temporarily. You need another voice of reason in home now. Secondly, you need somebody else there in case wh tries to forcibly come home and demand this money...He knows he's going down without money. He's got no job soon, and ow has probably not alot on her plate with regards to her resume...let's face it, young, probably no college degree, and kicked out of military doesn't exactly look wonderful to future employers.

They are desperate people right now and your WH will probably do anything he can to get his hands on money...lie, cheat, or steal to get it.

That's not the kind of people or persons you need around your child right now either.

You have no choice but to go to plan B. Get all contacts, voice mails on tape. Everything. I fear this guy is getting way outta control and his desperation has been wearing on you hard.

Please go see a counselor yourself. Most of us here had. Alot of us got on antidepressants temporarily from our physicians or psychs so we could help ourselves think more clearly during a time of immense crisis...and yea, you're in a family crisis now. Please work to get peace for you and your precious boy.

I am praying, sending positive karma, and pulling for you. Having lived at the hand of a man who was first emotionally abusive (as your wh is) and then seeing him morph into a full blown abusive man when he finally "got it" that he couldn't have his cake, live in the fog, and eat it too...that his w would make him stand accountable for his actions...is scary. I lived that. I can almost bet how he will soon react to things. It is safest and smarter to get away from this man..

I know you're hurt. You loved the man you married. You loved the man who is your son's dad..mourn it right now. It's ok to be sad. But it's wrong for your to deliberately be around him knowing his words will be as you put it, knife in the heart.

I am sorry. I sure wish he would have figured it all out with the court thing. He instead imho became a bit more defiant after.

Try to put him out of your life for now. You need to legally also get some support and file a separation agreement most likely...it's not a divorce, but see if you can get one legally so there is some form of support in place for you and your son. Plus he needs to know he has to stand accountable for financial support of your child...nothing like a judge saying it's the law or jail if he doesn't do that. Even a foggy man doesn't want jail...a WS can't eat their cake while behind bars.

It is time to help you and the little one. We are supportive and will do our best to help you and encourage you to stay strong. Do what's best and needed now. As of today, Dani needs to do the following:
1)plan B
2)move in relative for safety, and to ensure B is followed for peace of mind
3)gets good child psychologist for little boy
4)gets good one for Dani and sees if antidepressants will help w/clarity and judgement
5)realizes WH as of now, is out of control. Completely
6)Tax money is not a talking point anymore. In fact, you go to B and there are no more talking points. Only negotiation is thru legal and for temporary support for you and your child.
7)let wh get his emotional support, or lack thereof from OW. Let them self destruct or implode. Don't feed their affair by being wh's fix for emotional needs. Give plan B time to work...and really work this time.

He called back twice and the second time left a message saying
"I knew this is what you were getting at, it's your way or no way. Basically it's your way or your not going to talk to me or your not going to give me the tax money I want. If I don't come back to you then your not going to do anything for me. I see how it is, whatever"

It's all about the money. Damn, the guy is as transparent as plastic wrap and as sincere as a $3.00 bill. I know you love this guy but right now it looks like he's trying to play you for all he's worth (which isn't much at this point). Please don't fall for his sleazy games. (((Hugs)))

You know what? He says you don't give him the $$ he 'wants'? Notice he doesn't say he it is what he needs. He is still into his want stage.

Sounds like you need to give him less. BTW, take out the amount for that loan to pay it off and a fee for your time. At least $50.00 per transaction. Once to remove it from his account and once to deposit to into yours, then another $50.00 to send it to the loan company.

Why such a high expense? Because that is what he really wants. He didn't want t/d it himself but it needed t/b done. So the least he can do is pay for that service. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

Well I should have known...
WH gets paid at midnight, and I waited up until 12:30 and it wasn't deposited yet. I couldn't keep myself up and fell asleep.
I woke up and guess what? Every last penny has been trasnfered to the OWs account, including the child support he is suppsed to give me each payday.
I should have known.....if I didn't stay up I would be out of luck. I just couldn't keep myself up any longer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So....this is because he thinks he should have gotten more of the tax money, so this is how he gets what he wants. It's all about him....
I should be angry right now, but instead I am sitting here crying...
I shouldn't have to wait up until midnight each darn payday to get money. He set up an alotment, but then he changed the bank account his paycheck went to, so that didn't work. He just is so self-asorbed it kills me.

More later.....
Danielle

Do you have a lawyer?

Ok so e-mail yourself a copy of the sttement and save it for court. This is so wrong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Dani - Toprope is absolutely right. There's a reason for Plan B, and it has to do with both protecting you and givng your WS a tasted of what he's missing without you - but you HAVE to stay DARK.

This is the voice of experience here - if you read thru my posts, you'll see how many times I've boken Plan B - sometimes thru no fault of my own, but most often because I allow it to happen. My WW is not a kind loving, or caring WW - she is manipulative, mean-spirited and extremely intelligent. I fight a continuous battle trying to stay out of her trying to insinuate herself into our family life as if she really cares, when all she is really doing is trying to provoke a response from me to validate her various A's.

I can tell you from experience that I just went thru the same sort of situation, so you defintiely have someone who can empathize. My WW managed to file our joint tax return into her bank account - all 3000.00 of it. Right now it's under investigation by the IRS Fraud dept - I will pursue this as far as it takes. It could even ruin her career as a lawyer - but WS's DO NOT THINK!!!!

I have been pretty successful (along with the help of a wonderful IC) in staying dark, while at the same time mananging visitation with the kids, etc.

I can predict the outcome of my plan b - it will end my marriage - but that does NOT mean it will in your instance - that decision comes when your heart and your mind are in sync about what you need to do protect your kids.

YOU HAVE TO BE MOM - that's ALL! Protect your kids - we love you here at MB, and all hope for the very best outcome for you....

And here's good news: no matter what happens - it WILL be the best outcome for you.

David

<small>[ March 01, 2005, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Dewt,
I am moving out of state in 1-2 months, so until then the only lawyer services I have used are for the OWs court case. As soon as I get home (Maine) I will be getting one..
He is wrong, he is nasty, he has HIS and HER interest in mind ONLY.
I have to be smarter next payday and stay up at all costs...
I feel like e-mailing him or calling him and telling him how rotten of him this is. I want to tell him that our children should mean more to him then this, and he is taking money from THEM. I won't though, that is what he WANTS me to do...

Danielle

<small>[ March 01, 2005, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: DanigirlinVA ]</small>

Dani --

Is your child support a matter of court record or just an agreement between you and your spouse? If you have paperwork to back your child support claim you can get money from your husband via the military pay system by logging a complaint with his CO.

The down side to this method is that it takes awhile, and it requires you to have legal backing i.e.: court documents or lawyer written agreements.

Dani,

Look at it this way...every penny you give your H...supports his life with the OW. EVERY SINGLE PENNY!!!!!

Why would you want to do ANYTHING that supports his life with her????

Do not give him one more dime until you talk to a lawyer.

Your H is playing you like a fiddle. He knows what buttons to push because he INSTALLED THEM!!!!

You did a good job in court...but you have to keep your resolve up.

Find an intermediary. Do not talk to your H ANYMORE...DO NOT support his life with the OW by giving him money...or by allowing him to worm out of CS. Even if it does turn out you might owe him a part of the refund...make him wait...make him squirm...make his life just a difficult as he has made yours. Make it hard for him to survive with the OW.

I really don`t think your H deserves any kind of love from you...he doesn`t deserve a second thought from you right now. You children do though...they are too young to look out for themselves. They need to be your main focus right now. All of this time and energy you are putting forth worrying about your H...dealing with your H...turn this OFF of him and onto your children.

You are being sucked into CRAZY!!!! Don`t allow this...don`t deal with craziness. Dark...dark..Plan B is what you have to do or you will go crazy too.

<small>[ March 01, 2005, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Daisy37 ]</small>

Dani, I would suggest you get on the phone IMMEDIATELY and call the CO! This is wrong! Your H is property of the US military right now and his CO can and i bleieve WILL do something about this! He is putting the best interest of his OWN chiledren aside to be spiteful to YOU!

You have got to jolt him back to reality...Call the CO now. you need to take care of those babies and he is not allowing that!

Dani,

You probably will need a lawyer to fight this. I suspect even if you tell your husband's CO, your husband will counter by saying that you didn't give him his entire half of the tax refund so you already have your child support from the "extra" money you didn't give him. Also hopefully H won't counter by soon having his whole paycheck directly deposited into OW's account.

<small>[ March 01, 2005, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: Blackrio ]</small>

Justpeachy, Way2, Orchid, A.M. Martin, RCP, dewt, Daisy, David, Dobie, and everyone else, THANK YOU.

To answer a few questions...
My WH was ordered by his command to pay me the child support. I did contact them this morning about the money, and they said they would look into it. When they go to WH I am 100% sure he is going to say he took it because I didn't give him the tax money. I can tell this is going to be a battle, but if he wants it to be a fight, he will loose in the end. I need to be smarter then he is next time he gets paid...
I am sure he will soon just have the money go right to the OW...
He only has 2 months left in the Navy, and then who knows if he will have a job.


My son has been having problems and we always knew 'something' was different. He does have a chromosomal disorder so we were never sure how much of his behavior problems were caused by that. Since WH left, and even more recently his behavior has gotten MUCH worse. His dr gave us some questionnaires and he goes back for more testing on the 7th. He had a GOOD DAY yesterday. I was so impressed and proud of him that when I was reading him his bedtime story and tucking him in I told him how happy I was and I started to cry. He said 'Mom, I was good, don't be sad' He is 4, yet he understands so much...sometimes too much. We started a behavior program at his daycare and he is earning stickers, and can 'cash them in' for prizes. I am up for anything that can possibly help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Yesterday morning we drove by a camaro that looked similar to my WH. DS started asking if it was his Dad, and who has his Dads car.. I explained to him that it wasn't his Dads car, just a cool car like it. Then he said that when he gets big he wants a car just like his Dads, and he wants to be strong and go fast like his Dad. I just smiled, thinking to myself, 'if you only knew'.....
He keeps saying that he will feel better when we get to Maine. He has no idea what 'feeling better' is I am sure, but he is excited to move.

WH called and left a message on my cell phone yesterday saying he wanted to talk to me but since I was too rude to answer my phone he just wanted to tell me that he has my CDs. HELLO? I KNOW THIS! You already told me..... I obviously don't care.

My daughter turned two last week....she is getting so big. Where does time go?

That brings me to my plan, resolution, resolve, whatever you want to call it.

I guess we can call this the past two days of ponder.

I talked to my MIL at length on Sunday. We talked about how 4 years ago WH and I were saying how 4 years from then we would be moving home, and he would be getting out of the Navy. We were planning to build a house on our land, and we were so excited. Then we talked about how just last May when we took our family vacation we were so happy, and seemed to be very in love. Then when she saw WH during Christmas he had lost his love for life.

We talked about how my daughter is 2 years old, and that it seems like just yesterday we called my MIL to tell her that our daughter was born. WH was so excited to say that he cut the umbilical cord because he wasn't able to with our son.

Then my MIL started crying, saying that this has been the hardest 6 months of her life. She lost her son, and her Father (he passed away).

When I got off the phone with her, I sat down and thought to myself.....
It has been 6 1/2 months since WH met OW online and left. It feels like yesterday that we were in love and together, but it feels like I have been in pain for years. I have gone through the raging wife, throwing his clothes on the floor after he packed his suitcase to leave, to driving around all day trying to find him, calling him 100 times begging for him to come home. I have gone to the pathetic crying, sobbing, depressed, suicidal, can't sleep, can't eat, can't breath wife. I have gone through the anxiety and joy of him coming home, only to have a false recovery. I have gone through the pain, the lies, the single parenting a special needs child...while he says how much he cares, but in reality couldn't give a care if you paid him.....
I have done all that in more in 6 months. What have I done for the children or I that was not based on his feelings, thoughts or needs? I can't think of anything right now....
He has thought only of himself, and I have too.
If I continue this, I am going to end up a lonely, sad, crazy women, who has children that don't know which way up is.

My children deserve a Mother, whose first priority is THEM. They deserve my undivided attention. They deserve the world. They deserve two parents that love them unconditionally. I can give them one parent, the one I have control over. They deserve stability.

I deserve peace. I am smart, funny, loving, and I deserve a good life. I deserve to be with someone who can love me, and let me love them. I deserve to be able to sleep at night, and be awake during the day.

Only I have control over weather I get the things I deserve, and weather my children get the things they deserve. I have tried to control my WH, and we can all see where that has gotten me.

I have tried to talk to him about financial or child related issues only. Didn't work. One reason is that he isn't willing to think of anyone but himself and OW right now. He wants ALL the money, etc. Another reason is, if I give him an inch, he asks for a mile, and I give it. On the way out, he throws a knife at me and it lands in my heart, while he walks out with a smile.
I can continue to let him walk all over me, and try to prove myself to him....
OR I can prove myself to myself...

Am I crying? Yes. Am I devastated at the state of my marriage, family and life? Yes. Do I lay in bed and cry wishing my WH would become my H and join me? Yes. Do I pray that my WH finds his way home and is able to be the Father our children need him to be? Yes. Am I going to struggle financially. Yes...oh yes... Do I miss him, miss being loved, and held? Yep....
Is it going to kill me? No. I can't let it.

My point. *I* can't let HIM, RUN MY LIFE.

Danielle

<small>[ March 01, 2005, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: DanigirlinVA ]</small>