Hi all. I’m a little embarassed to show my "face". I feel like I have taken from this forum much more than I have given. I know I will get through this one way or another and after I do, I hope to return and give more. This forum is truly a blessing. And you people make it so.<P>I have been off for about 3 weeks and there has not been much progress. It has now been 7 months since discovery. Almost 2 months ago my W began expressing a desire to leave. She felt it was necessary for her to see if she could live and be happier without me. After a month of her vacillating, I told her she needed to set a reasonable time limit which she did (9/30). Then I called Steve Harley for advise. He advised I try hard to apply the rules of plan A. He felt I needed to be prepared to go into Plan B (leave good memories of myself). He also suggested that my believing that my W was making contact with om only once every two weeks was probably unrealistic. Harley suggested I not hold my W to a 9/30 deadline which I agreed was not a real good idea. A couple days after the call, told my W that the 9/30 deadline was not important to me. I also confronted her about contacting om. She then admitted to phone calls daily from work and seeing om once a week for the last month. She admitted she had lost hope for putting an end to the affair (she had tried 4 times unsuccessfully). She also admitted to having had sex with om twice. I’m telling you - this hurts just to type these words. I tried my hardest to apply the MB principals and was pretty successful. One thing I did that may not have been in line with Harley’s thinking was asking her to tell me every day whether she had contacted or seen om. She agreed (and has - every day -except weekends). Today she sent me an email saying he had left her a message (at work) and that she called him. She added: <P>"I feel that I can't stop talking to him until I have developed my plan. Every time I talk to him, I think about why I can't and shouldn't be doing it. Right now, the reason is because I don't want to hurt you or to have to tell you about it. It is very hard to tell you. I want the reasons to change somewhat over the next week. I want to write some down to look at when I get tempted later. I want the reasons to be very clear."<P>Now for some "good news". She is reading from SSA, and two other books I had gotten on surviving affairs. She is reading them almost every night. In her email today she said she has made her decision to stay. But she also said:<P> "I'm afraid that I'm going to fail, so I am going to really put everything I have into developing a plan for myself that will work. I want to be able to do it by September 30, but I know that I have a lot of work to do before then. I plan to spend a lot more time at it this week. I'm getting more afraid as the days go by. I hope you will be able to handle the way I feel after 9/30. I want you to try to keep the kids from seeing what I am going through".<P>I feel so sorry for her. This seems analogous to a drug addict preparing to enter a rehab center where the addict designs and implements his/her own program for therapy. Could that work? <P>Betrayers of emotional love affairs, can you please give me any advise that I can give to my wife on how to best do this and get through it? I told her I would help her with the list and she ageed to look at it as long as there was no discussion or debate. She has been spending 110% of her free time with the kids - she has agreed to let me spend a little time with them to give her a break. I know this needs to be her doing and based on what she wants but I feel she is so messed up right now she can’t even think straight. She had talked to Harley a couple months ago and he highly recommended to me that she call him this week but she didn’t like that idea so I didn’t push. Please help.<P>

Sailor, <P>So good to hear from you. Don't worry about being a taker on this forum right now, we don't keep track. <P>I think your "good" news is better than you realize. I see some real effort on your wife's part. You must be doing the right things from the way she is interacting with you. <P>Now is the time to put on the full armour and head in to battle. Put ALL of your needs on the shelf for now. Continue with no love busters. Withdrawal is starting for her and I really think she is trying to come back to you. It appears that you both are communicating very well - keep that up. <P>Is she open to going out with you? How about a movie or a coffee shop - nothing fancy? If she is open to it (my wife was/is) I think it would do you both good to just get out and be together. Don't talk about "it" just talk about other stuff. <P>Is she open to receiving touch from you - like foot rubs or back rubs? I'm a touching guy now and it has really helped my wife get feelings back for me. <P>In the end, it is a decision fom her to come back. It will hurt, but it will hurt less when she stops prolonging the agony of ending the relationship with the OM. Reassure her that you both will make it. <P>One other thing, get a little book called Husband 101. It is filled with "little things" that woman love their guy to do for them. <P>Your going to make it, I just know it!!!<P>SHA

Do you think she might benefit from one visit with Steve Harley? I'm sure he's heard all of this before, and maybe can even give her some ideas?<P>

SHA<BR>You are pretty amazing. I haven't been on here much but I have checked every couple days for posts of yours and a few others who seem to have an ability to encourage and support. So about the time I think you are out-a-here I post this and you respond within a few hours. Well I'm glad you are lurking and responded.<P>OK, my armor is on. And she has warned me I'll need it not just for myself but also for the girls. Funny you should ask about going out. I asked her last week - just a few days after the latest discovery/letdown and, to my pleasant surprise, she accepted. We went out to dinner at a Mexican Bar/Grill we had not been to for 6 or 7 years (and use to both really like). No mention of "it". Just talked about light topics and had a nice time. I think it helped a little. I'll take those small successes right now.<P>We must be telepathic. You responded at 6pm (WST?) and at about 9:30 EST, I was upstairs running my fingers through her hair giving her one of your famous scalp rubs. <P>I'll look for the book - might have it now. Hey, thanks again for the support and encouragement. <P>So where do you stand? If you are conversing in some other thread, just direct me to it. Hope things have smoothed out at school. <P>trustntruth<BR>Yes, I'm sure she would benefit from another talk with Harley. She had talked to him two months ago. He is the only person she has ever confessed everything to. I guess he was a little too positive and programmatic for her. She wasn't too enthusiastic about his advise. He told me to have her call him right away but to just drop it if she balked. She balked so I dropped it. She felt he is just wanting to line his pocket. I told that could be said about any counselor and the question is whether they are really helping to get you through a crisis. She is into a lot of reading "affair" manuals. I hope they are as encouraging as Harley is.<BR>

Sailor, i've been wondering about you.<BR>You know, like SHA I feel thta there are quite a lot of positive things in the middle of this painfull situation. The fact that your w can communicate with you, and tell you things - like the fact that she is having trouble ending the affair - is much more postitive than it looks in my opinion. At least she is not all closed up and defensive, it shows that she is at least thinking about it and trying. It's just that the addiction is strong.<BR>It's time to use emergency measures. And that famous scalp massage will ceratinly help !<BR>COncentrate on creating an environment where she feels accepted and understood, not judged. Be confident, show her by your actions and words that you're confident she can do it. reconect in regards to the person you are now, and the person she is now, go back to talking about your hopes and dreams.Let her know that you're there if she needs to talk about the affair, but don't start on that subject yourself ( I helped me when I acted like I had no doubts things would work out. My H says that confidence made him think that maybe he was wrong ) <BR>I'm like SHA: touching is very important to me, so that gets my vote as well.<BR>Is her self confidence low? Do your best to help her feel confident too. tell her how nice she looks and smells and ... most of these things should be on the book SHA told you about <BR>Above all don't give up yet. It looks like she's ready to open up, but the darn addiction doesn't let her. Find things to do together - me and my H started several projects from painting the house, which was good because it took a long time from choosing the color scheme until it was finally done, to put together another computer for the kids. We had fun, spend a lot of time together and the ow started to pull her hair and get green with envy, so she started lovebusting ( and we want them to lovebust like crazy, that helps! -<BR>I fell you guys will make it just hang in there a bit more.<P>Take care sailor<BR>Kat<BR><P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

You should thank her for being honest with you. DO NOT let her know you are resentful for telling you the truth (it hurts, but you've got on your "suit of armor"). You have to protect her from yourself, which means zero lovebusters. I started reading SAA again. The first thing they advise to do is the Rule of Protection - Do not be the cause of your spouses unhappiness. Gotta do it and it'll be tough at times. If you do lovebust, stop yourself and apologize. Tell her you know it was wrong & you're working on it. Do not let it happen again for the same thing.<P>Yeah, Steve Harley rocks. He knows what he is talking about (his Dad has used these principles for 25 years now and they work!)<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR>

Sailor, <P>Yeah, I'm lurking mostly. I'm not spending the time here that I used to but I am trying to help out the guys who seem to be in a similar situation as me. <P>Things are going very well right now with my wife and I. I'm getting more touch and more compliments. That makes it a lot easier for me to give to her so we both win. We have a date night once a week (we stopped that when we started having kids - now its a priority). So, we are spending a lot of one on one time with each other which is nice. <P>Keep up with the touch, touch, touch. I can't tell you how much that has worked miracles for me. It also opens the door to other things . So, keep that up. She will come to realize that the OM can in no way compete with you!<P>If your wife is into reading now, may I suggest one more book? (no, I don't get any royalties from these endorsements). It's called "Anniversary: A Love Story" by Michael Adamse (I may have misspelled his name). Anyway, it's a wonderful fictional book about a husband and wife who made it through 49 years of marriage with major bumps along the way (like what we are going through). They write love letters to one another each anniversary about how they feel. Easy reading and a tear jerker. Main theme is COMMITMENT. <P>Sailor, I think you are doing all the right things. Just keep it up. Weather this storm and you and your wife will be glad you did. <P>Your MB friend, <P>SHA

Thankyou again to all of you for your encouragement. It is getting better. Even though she tells me she about daily contact, she is also being thoughtful. She called me before lunch today to tell me where she was going over the noon hour. She departed with "see you at 5 Honey". We all know there are little tell tale signs and I’m getting some good ones. Kat and Chris, I really appreciate all the advise I’m getting from you. I am doing most of what you recommend Chris but, Kat, you provide a female perspective that really helps. But most of it is for what I can do. Any others from betrayers on what my W can do to help endure it sticks this time?<P>SHA – I’m really glad to hear about things getting better for you. I mean really glad. But how could any woman resist the model of a man? Keep it up. You are going to make it for sure. I recall you (I think) plugging that book before. This time, I’ll take your advise and get it. Thanks again.<BR>

SHA,<P>I for one would like you to know you have been an inspiration to me!! Thanks for your input.

Sailor, the question here is is she at a point where she is willing or more than that can she do anything to make it easyer on your at this point? It seems that although things look positive she's still in early stages and maybe there isn't much she can help with right now - I bet she's extremelly confused and feeling pulled by many sides. <BR>And no, it's not fair, but sometimes we do have to continue pulling the cart by ourselves just a little bit longer.<BR>If you see, however, any signs that she's willing to work with you and stick to it, you can gently ask her for things we feel important to you. Maybe you can tell her that although you understand it's difficult, it is also difficult for your marriage to really have a chance unless she really avoids the om, and that is a consistent effort ( I told this to my H, but knowing he wouldn't give up that easily, I added that if in a certain amount of time - I suggested until his birthday which was about 4 months, but the amount of time can be chosen according to the situation - he would still feel that he would rather be with her, than I would step aside. It was a big gamble, but the only way of getting him to consider sticking to it, and really it was done just so I couldn't say he didn't try, since at that time he had no doubts he wanted her. Proof? The first thing he asked was"And if I do this you'll get off my back?" I told him yes but only if I had absolute proof that they hadn't been together during that time, or else the deal was off. It could have backfired, but at that point it was the only thing I could do, I felt that if you just had a chance to be together, and do things together without her paging every 2 minutes he would be able to think more clearly, and the feeling he though were lost - for me - would emerge again. <BR>I know what your wife could do to help. Show you that she really wanted to give it try, making an effort to do things with you, be willing to account for her time things like that, that are reassuring, but I'm not sure if she's at that stage yet, it usually comes a bit farther in the recovery process - when the op is completely out of the picture.<BR>I know it feels like your'e giving, and working and doing our best and aren't getting much in return, but when the return comes it makes it all worth.<BR>Do take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.