I'm dhj's husband - I have been having an affiar with someone at work for about 6 months. There was a natural attraction from the beginning - I denied it to my wife and myself when she pointed it out. Anyway, one night when the opportunity presented itself - I crossed the line. <P>My problem is that I need to make a decision on what to do - I have put two wonderful people on hold and it is only a matter of time before I devastate one of them. I know that only I can make the decision, but I would like to hear how other people have made such a huge decision after doing something so unthinkable. Any input would be great. <P>I do love my wife and our child, but I have something pretty great with this other person. I don't want to hurt anyone - which I have already done and I know my indecision is killing them both. If I start over with something great I can do it right form the beginning - or I can fix what was wrong with my marriage. The room lights up when this other person enters - it feels so good. I am not sure I can recover the spark in our marriage - that is really the only part I am not sure we can fix. It was pretty wonderful and I was never unhappy. It just feels so real with her. How do I make such a decision?<P>My wife tells me that we are not very far into this process - she had known almost 4 weeks. I know what I have done is unforgivable - if I could go back in time I would not do it - I need help!<P>We are going to counseling, but it is not helping me so far! Help!

dhj's h,<BR> Hold it , hold on. Take a deep breath. now, sorry but you sounded panicked.<BR>I am going to talk to my h and try to get him to come talk to you, he just went to sleep so it may be awhile.<P> But I will tell you what I think, What you have done is not unforgiveable, unforgetable, maybe. But not unforgiveable. Your w obviously loves you enough to be willing to go on and work on the marriage. Be glad very often people don't even want to try.<BR> My h's last affair ended when I found out in Sept.98, and believe me, he didn't want it to end. It had gone on for 6 months, and had gotten very emotional between them. <BR> Now it would be real easy right now for me to just say do the right thing and leave it at that, but I'm not going to, I am going to ask you to think about a few things instead. <BR> Your w is right you are not far into this process at all. <BR>These are the things you need to think about.<P>You say that if you choose ow you will be able to do it right from the start, WRONG, I promise you that the relationship will not be all sunshine lollipops and rainbows. Why, because if you do this the guilt you will feel won't let it, my h left me for ow # 1 and stayed with her for a year and a half, BUT he knew it was doomed after about 3 months, he said it was becausehe felt so guilty about leaving me and our son who was 5 then, also as in all relationships, the daily grind set in after the "honeymoon" stage was over with. You know the morning breath, her hair in curlers , him scratching his butt in front of her. All the stuff people DON"T do when a relationship is new. Think about when you and w first started out, I'll bet you felt the same things about her as you do ow, sure there may be diffrences, but probably not many.<P>Also I don't know how old your child is, but I can guarentee you that the child will NEVER and I do mean NEVER forget it if you leave the family like I said, my son was 5 when h left us, about 6 months before we got back together son dictated a letter to a family member for his dad, it was heartrendering, the relative has not forgotten what that child had to say and it has been almost 13 years ago. Kids almost always think they are to blame in things like this, no matter how much everyone reassures them, they also tend to feel the op is more important to the person who leaves than the child is themselves. Again, you can tell them not till the cows come home it won't matter.<P>Then there is the fact that you made a VOW to your wife, you swore you would be with her till death do you part, not till you met someone else who took your breath away, how will you look at yourself in the mirror everyday knowing the pain she will be living in if you leave her. It is one of the most horrible things she will ever have to live through. <P> You say the room lights up when ow walks in, well of course it does, right now you won't like hearing this, but you seemed to want honest openions and not just stuff to make you feel good so I'm going to be honest with you, what you feel for ow is an addiction, I don't know if you have ever had any experiance with addiction of any type, alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, or any of those things , but when it first starts it is fun, and makes you feel good, but as with any addiction after a while you wish you had never started. My h told me not too long ago, that it felt good to know two women wanted him during the last affair, that he wanted to keep both relationships if he could have.<P>Your w deserves a chance , your child deserves a chance and YOU deserve a chance , <P>Let me ask you this, what if you do leave your w, and in a few years ow finds someone else who makes her feel all loving and romantic, then what ? Or what if you meet yet another person, and the romance between you and this ow has gone flat ? And I promise you it will go flat, no relationship stays brand new, <P>I am glad you posted this, I wish you had done it yesterday or friday, the board is a little slow on sundays but I am sure some one else will answer you soon.<P>Please think about what I have said, and I also want to tell you something so you won't think that I am just rooting for your marriage because my h cheated on me, we have been married for 21 years , early in our marriage I cheated on him, we have had a lot to over come, everything isn't perfect between us, guess what I learned , life isn't perfect. <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

I know you have been waiting for the betrayers to come help you here. the thing is, "freedom" has moved on (PLEASE go read all his old posts), and , i think "airheart" is only here weekdays.<BR>Yes, you are very early into this. My H continued (is probably continuing) his affair for over a year after i first really found out!<BR>I can tell you what all the betrayers seem to be going through, though.<BR>Just like you, they wonder "what if?" about the OW all the time...and "it seems so right". well, guess what? It ain't. it is based on deception and lies and destroying your family. IF you were to go to OW, the fantasy would end pretty quick. I hate to sound trite, but every day is a new day, and a chance for you to start out again with your wife, just like you think you could "start out right" with this OW.<BR>It will be impossible for you to get over your OW unless you get FAR away from her. And witdrawal from the addiction to her will be PURE HELL. This affair did not run it's natural course, you still think she is a goddess, right? Nope, the wear and tear of everyday living will take away the magic fast, and you will be stuck wondering what you did to your family, and how bad you hurt your child by leaving him for your own selfish reasons.<BR>You made a committment to your wife and clild, and you need to put them first. <BR>OW may be hurting, waiting for you, but the truth is, she KNEW she was taking up with stolen property. If she REALLY loved you, she would have avoided the temptation, and sent you off to a family therapist.<BR>You are very brave to come here. You are doing right by your wife. <BR>Please read the posts i suggested, and anything else relevant on this site.<BR>And if you don't know this, then listen up: FEELINGS arise from ACTIONS. Spend the rest of the day acting AS IF you are madly in love with your wife-no matter how much you are thinking about OW, and the feelings will start to come back. (read 'divorcebusting', by michele weiner-davis, it will explain it all).<BR>have a great day, and go give your wife a big hug right now!<P>------------------<BR>for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do us part.<P><BR>

lwb,<BR> I email Freedom and asked thim to please come back for this post, maybe he will, God I pray he will.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

You sound so very much like my H 8 months ago. I would get him to post to you but I doubt he could say anything. He didn't want to hurt anyone, he cared about us both etc.<BR>Now he can't even tell me what was so special about her. He has no idea what caused him to keep going there. It took him a while to make up his mind too.<BR>First of all you have to realize that you are already devastating someone. dhj is going through the most painful time of her life right now and it is out of love for you.<BR>Ask yourself if the OW would stand by you under those circumstances. Would she endure the pain that your wife is feeling now? I can honestly say that the only thing I can imagine to be more painful than betrayal would be the loss of a child. What a woman your wife is to stand by you!<BR>Now could you try to think into the future about two years. The room will no longer light up because of the OW. If you are together still (and the odds aren't that great) you will be dealing with every day problems and it won't be all passion. You will have let the rest of the world into your relationship and it might not be so pretty.<BR>Look a little bit farther down the road.<BR>Think of the things you could be sharing with your family. <BR>I have had many friends split up because of infidelity. I am sorry to say that the children are always damaged. The betraying spouse has never once stayed with the OP and most of the betrayed have gone on to new relationships that seem to be succeding. This is just what I have seen but in most cases the betrayer is the one who ended up alone. Very scary when they were willing to give up their families for this one special person that lit their fire. The fire went out shortly after the complete damage was done.<BR>Sorry to babble. I know this is difficult. I guess I wanted to tell you some of the things that really made my H see the light. It wasn't immediate by any means. Just try to look beyond the moment.<BR>You're doing great by looking for help!<p>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited August 15, 1999).]

good idea deb. I'll envision it happening.

Mr. dhj,<P>First off, let me say that I am a betrayer. But unlike you, I had no difficulty making my decision to rebuild my marriage to my H. Yes, I had an affair, a very intense and what I "thought to be love" affair. But once it was exposed, it was over. Period. I wanted my H, have always wanted him and never wanted to break up my family. So, it was never a matter of a "choice" to me.<P>I guess I'm just a little confused and not really sure what kind of "help" you're looking for. Everyone's situation is different, nobody is going to be able to give you some sort of blueprint to follow. You have dug your way into a very difficult situation. Either way you go, it's going to be hard, and either way you go, someone's going to get hurt. (Everyone is already hurting now!!!) That's the horrible nature of affairs and there's no easy way out of this. I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but now is time for you to be a man and stand up and make a decision. <P>Make the decision like any adult must make any decision. Assuming that you cannot have both women, weigh all the options and look at all the possibilities with each scenario. Heck, make a list of pros and cons if you have to. It sounds like you have a gem of a wife who is willing to forgive you and rebuild and you have an established life with her. Regarding that "spark," do you think that spark with the OW is going to last forever? Think again. If for some reason you do choose OW, when that spark goes out, and it will, will you leave her too?<P>Stringing both of them along IS prolonging their pain. Your continued indecision may lead one of the parties involved to remove themselves from the situation altogether. Time is of the essence.

You have gotten very good and "true" advice from these people.<P>The only thing I can add is this:<P>Looking for a "new" relationship to bring you happiness may seem to be a lot easier than putting in the work to fix the current marriage. If this is a factor than you are running from an opportunity to learn and grow as a MAN!!<P>If these mistakes and problems aren't dealt with by you - you will repeat them whether you think you'll do things "right" or not. <P>Don't run from something that seems so difficult - the best thing for yourself is to learn to be a better person. That's what we're on this Earth for - Not just for our own happiness!!!

To dhj's husband,<BR>I read your post and know exactly where you are and how you feel. I was there several years ago, and I made the very decision you are presently contemplating. Before you go on read my, Whole Story" in this forum. I brought it back to the top so it should be easy to find. It describes my whole ordeal and I know that you'll identify with how I was feeling during the early part of the affair.<P>After you read it you'll see that I went through the entire process only I went down the wrong road. I left home and lived with the ow for 3 years. After a while those fantastic feelings settle down and you find that things are pretty much just the way they were with your wife only now you've lost everthing you had. <P>Since you are having a problem making a decision both women are providing some of you emotional needs. What you really need to do is identify what the ow gives you that your wife does not and work out a plan for your wife to provide all of your needs. Going off with the ow is not going to bring you eternal bliss and happyness. I know that right now she is perfection in you eyes, but it's only an illusion because you are both only showing your best side. Reality will set in if you choose her over your wife and when it does you will be more unhappy than you ever were in your entire life.<P>Believe me! I was there! I did it! I'm giving it to you straight from one man to another. No matter how good you think your life with her will be, no matter how good the sex is, no matter how good looking she is you really need to end it because you will destroy your family and yourself. You and the ow are enjoying romantic love. Read about it in Frank Pittmans, "Private Lies". You'll see that it won't last no matter how it feels right now. You wife's love is real and unconditional. It's a big difference because it's everlasting. Your relationship needs work, but it's not lost otherwise you wouldn't have a problem making this decision.<P>Trust me, the right decision is to end the relationship the way Dr. Harley describes and work on your marrige. You had that romantic feeling with your wife once. You can get it back and be really happy, but it's very difficult because you'll go through withdrawal. Read about that too because you need to know what to expect. Then make the right decision and follow through. Good luck and if you need further support or want to talk to someone that has gone through this you can talk to me.

Well dhj's h, do you want to ask us anything, any comments ?<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

When in doubt, do what is right.<P>Look at child, is your happiness more important than his?<P>Look at wife, did you mean your vow? Do you really want to go back on your promice?<P>Look at yourself, do you really want to break up a family that loves you to act on your feelings instead of your values or convictions?<P>Look at OW, does she deserve a man with so much baggage? Can you be the father your child needs you to be when your attentions are divided. Does OW expect to be #1 in life as any wife should and where does that put someone that isn't her natural child. Can she love him as intensly as you and your wife together do?<P>Sometimes the right thing is not the easy thing. But in the end it is the most rewarding.<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

dhj's h-<BR>I am also a betrayed wife but would like to add my 2 cents. First, I commend you for seeking counselling with dhj and for posting here. Many betrayers, at this stage of recovery, would not do the same. There is hope for your marriage.<P>I won't repeat what others have said, but wanted to point out a couple of things. First, the statistics are grim for marriages born out of infidelity. I thinks its something like only 3% survive...for all the reasons already stated.<P>Also, you are pondering whether you can get it right this time with an OW versus fixing what is wrong w/marriage. My opinion is that the odds are greater that you will have more success w/fixing marriage.<P>What you have w/OW feels wonderful...but will that "feeling" last forever? You may think it can because you two are feel so "real" w/one another, but what WORK it would require to maintain that. You think you can "get it right this time" w/OW...but won't that require WORK? Why not put that same energy into fixing your marriage? This is what it all comes down to. The only way around a problem is through it. Give your marriage a fair chance.<P>Good Luck and God Bless!

This is dhj - <P>Thanks to you all for your responses - unfortunately my H couldn't read any of them yesterday so I am bringing this to the top hoping that more people will respond. He will read to night and if there are any other questions - he will repost and post a new topic.<P>Thanks again!

I commend you on coming here for advice. To me by you doing that, you are already leaning in a direction towards your wife. I think everyone had great advice and I hope you really take it to heart. I can only add a little bit more, I wish you could see that your wife loves you unconditionally. She is willing to stay with you, it will be the hardest thing she has every done....I know. I've been in your wifes shoes. She is choosing the hard road, staying is much harder than leaving. One thing you need to know is if you want to see what you have left of you marriage, you need to let the other woman go. You said counsiling isn't working....how can it when there are three people there? You can't work on your marriage as long as the ow is there. That was the first thing our counsilor said. It makes sense doesn't it. You aren't giving 100% to save your marriage. Why not give your marriage 6 mths, doesn't your wife deserve that much? If the ow loves you that much, she'll wait and give you time to allow you to see what is right for your marriage. When the clouds clear in your head, I think you will find out as many betrayers do that it wasn't what you thought it was. One more story for you. My father was also a betrayer, he came back to my mother 4 times, the last time I caught him with the ow, when he said he was out of town on business. I told him that either he tells her or I would. She deserved so much better. Well she wouldn't take him back again and finally divorced him. 6 months after the divorce he was diagnosed with incureable cancer, as he got sicker it was my mother who took care of him in his home and it was my mother who was in the hospital. The ow never came. The day my father died it was my mother who was with him. Talk about unconditional love....you can't tell me that your wife doesn't feel that for you.

I would just like you to be aware of what some women are capable of...<P>My husband finally decided to end the relationship with OW and come back to his wife and children and make it work. When he told her it was over she filed a harassment suite against my H and then never came back to work. We have all documentation of the relationship so she does not have a leg to stand on. Maybe you think you know this woman, but you may get a big surprise just like my H did.<P>Please, Please, Please go back to you wife and give it your best shot at making it work. Don't keep the OW around "just in case" because you will never totally devote yourself to your marriage. When making your decision remember that you have a child with your wife. Do you really want him to grow up without you in his life full-time? This is almost guaranteed to happen.<P>I feel all the pain dhj is going through, I have been there myself and I will tell you it is the greatest pain on earth. I know your pain is great, as well, because I saw the pain my husband went through. I can tell you, he is a different man now. It is like a weight has been lifted from his shoulders and he can center on what is really important in his life..his family! Good luck to you. I know you will make the right decision.

It is dhj again - not H - I am hoping that airheart is out there so when can hear form him before the day is out. Or any other betrayers - This is the last time I will bring this to the top. Everyone had been so kind to my H - Thank you

Everyone made great points: the child, the vows, the dedication of real love vs. those flighty feelings of romance. Just one more from my personal pain:<P> I hope you (any spouse in affair) gets out of this situation before one of these women gets pregnant. Babies happen by accident and they happen on purpose by people who aren't thinking like they should. Every pain you feel now will be multiplied if this should happen, and the repercussions last a lifetime, as I know from experience. Please stop the pain and let the healing begin... before it gets WORSE.

Mr. H,<BR>I don't have much to say except this... You are married to your Wife... You married her for a reason... You both produced a miracle... A child. You owe it to yourself and your family to give your marriage a second chance. This other women is a fantasy world and WILL NOT LAST!!! Her true self will come out soon enough and you may not like what you see... When you married it was "Till death do you part.." Not trying to put a guilt trip on you but you need to do what you want for you... no one else.<P>If you decide to leave your family and go to the other women.... will you be able to look at yourself down the road and say that you tried everything to make your marriage work... That's more heartache to live with than anything else... The feelin of " If I had only done this..." <P>I hope you see the light my friend... You have an opportunity to save yourself and your family...... Take it.<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P>

OK, OK... Here I am! Sorry I didn't respond sooner to this thread, but I'm only around on weekdays (as someone pointed out earlier).<P>dhj's H --<P>Yes, this is probably gonna be the most difficult decision you're gonna make in your life. And I'm sure you know you're the ultimate person to make it. I can just offer my experiences as possible advice to help you.<P>OK, here's what happened to me and how I made my decision. I met my OW at work. We were friends for around a year before I felt anything romantic for her. But I did fall in love and she became very special to me, just like your OW is to you. My wife soon discovered what was happening. I made my decision right at that time. At first my decision was made in a panic. I told the OW that my wife found out and she got furious with me, and also freaked out (long story, but anyway that's what happened). She told me she couldn't see me anymore after that. So I panicked and told my wife I wanted to work on our marriage. But as I started thinking about it, I knew that I couldn't leave my son anyway. It would devastate him and leave a lasting impression on him for the rest of his life.<P>That's the big thing for me. I just could not destroy my son like that. I can't be that selfish. If you love your child that much, think about what the future will bring. Divorce is terrible for most kids. It's rare for a child of divorced parents to not have any problems as they get older. Bad grades in school, drugs... whatever. It's damn scary!!<P>And since you said yourself that you love your wife, there is a basis for you to rebuild that "spark" that you used to have. It's not impossible. It takes a bunch of work, but you can do it.<P>The first thing you need to do to help make the decision is stop all contact with the OW. You need to clear your head of the addiction you have for her (I know the feeling!! believe me!). Stay away from her, don't call her on the phone, don't email her, don't write her letters. Complete cut off. You will go through a terrible period of withdrawal, and I don't know how long that lasts, cuz I'm still in it myself after 6 weeks. It really sucks. But you have to stick it through. Once you get over that feeling that you can't live without the OW, then take stock of your life and look at your wife without the taint of the affair in your heart. Your decision will come much easier then I think.<P>This entire process is what I'm going through right now. I've made the decision to stay with my wife, but I really still don't know if I can be happy with her. I'm very frightened and depressed about my future. But I take it one day at a time. I feel like I'm in AA or something, but that's my philosophy. Every day that I don't contact the OW is another victory for me.<P>I know I'm not really helping alot here, but alot of the other people on this thread have good advice too. If you read this whole thing, you'll have plenty to think about.<P>good luck!!<BR>--airheart<BR>

Hi there,<P>I also commend you for coming to this board and posting.<P>My husband won't even read the board or any books. That puts you on a stronger road to recovery right there.<P>I can't give you any better advise than you have already gotten. I can tell you that my husband works with OW and that he visually see's her everyday even though they haven't actually talked in 4 weeks...the longest he has gone is nearly 6 weeks. Discovery was Feb 21, 99. Withdrawal is very painful for him. He is still in love with her and feels that it is as strong as back on day one of discovery. Every time he talks to the other woman it puts us back many steps and hurts nearly as hard as the first knowledge. Maybe even more.<P>Staying with your wife is the right thing for all of you. Including the OW. Nothing concieved of deception can ever be anything really good. My husband doesn't agree of course because it feels so good. She makes him feel so good. He wants to have that special feeling towards me after 17 years. Hearts, butterflies, sparks...all that fun stuff. I would love it too but, is it realistic?<P>I asked my husband the other day if he's done to OW what he'd done to me would she still be with him? His answer was a total no. I think he thinks that I am weak. No, like your wife this is taking more strength than I ever thought I had. If it wasn't for God I wouldn't be this far. What it is taking and is a result of "Unconditional Love". Now if we love you enough to want you to continue to be our mates after this ulitmate betrayal...How can you loose?<P>I only wish someone loved me that much. <P>I promise that the sooner you totally seperate yourself from the OW the sooner your recovery will be and the better. <P>My husband recently admitted he has made this pain last longer...he really doesn't want to give her up is his heart. He says she makes him feel good. I pointed out that she used to make him feel good but, now it must be just pain he feels. I am right. Still he won't pray for God to take or destroy that love for her and return it to me. He prays that love returns to me but not to loose his love for her. He is hanging on. Don't make his mistake.<P>Everything everyone says here is true. Read the book SAA. It helps put things in better perspectives. Another book I really like is the "Five Love Languages". It really discribes romantic beginning love well.<P>That feeling doesn't last. We all know it as long as we are over 13. It is the basis we get together on. A mating ritual so to speak.<P>I will be lifting you up in prayer. <P>Please for your family, you and all of us make the right decission. <P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>