Don't I know about hate! I despise my H's OW because she has not only destroyed my trust in H and robbed me of something that USED to be pure and innocent, she also lied about it and made it look even worse to hurt me.<P>Sometimes the hate doesn't bother me, but other times it just eats me up -- that I'm letting this woman live rent free inside my head. When I'm feeling particularly hateful, I do crazy things like set up web pages defaming her or think up ideas of revenge. I don't show these pages to anyone connected with the OW, but they sure feel good to write (with attendant BAD pictures)

TNT...thanks so much for the usual wisdom. I have always wondered what is the voice of God and what isn't. Your prayers will be of great use and help to me. <P>Joanie...I know what you mean. I try not and go to those dark places. When I do the ugliness that comes out of me is horrible. Thanks for your prayers as well.<P>Almost Happy...I am not a better person than you. I am not better than anybody. I think sometimes you are right he isn't in love with her...it is just the fantasy. I hope in a year our recovery is as strong as yours and that much of the pain is gone for both of us. You are also right I am keeping her in our lives. I don't want to give her anything else. I have never felt this insecure in my relationship with my beloved husband in my life. I want to forget her. So bad but she creeps into my thoughts so much. My husband and her working together doesn't help. He see's her everyday which lately is 6 days a week. He doesn't communicate with her but, it still makes this withdrawal longer. <P>Zombie...I will say a special prayer for you tonight. I don't know how I would handle this if this OW had been a friend of mine. That would be too much I think. I already don't like my own gender now and they used to be my favorite. (No offense guys!) <P>Maya...I do pray for her and her situation. I have spent much time praying for her. I will continue to do so too. I believe everyone comes into our lives for reasons...I just want to quit having such horrible feelings and thoughts towards her.<P>Thanks all...I will be back to respond to the rest of you wonderful people. I get knocked off line too often to keep typing without submitting this. It has happened many time in the past to me already. Lost all I had written. GRRRRR....don't want to have more to be angry about. <P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

Nonplused...I do have an idea of what the OW relationship with God is, she has none. She told my husband and he is the one that told me. That is one of the things that really bothered him about her. I pray she now is closer to God or that he is using this situation to bring her and her young son close to him. I am not presuming anything or projecting. All the information I have of her is from my husband. Sense discovery he has been very honest with me. Sometimes painfully so. I have forgiven my husband. I still sometimes get angry. He has seen all my wrath and the hell I have been through. Believe me I have seen the hell he has been through too. I am trying to come to correct terms regarding my feelings toward this woman. She did do something to me, she intruded in my life even if it was with my husbands invitation. She helped cause me and my family much pain. All because she wanted to fulfill a crush of 27 years ago. My husband has paid dearly for his bad choice. This woman doesn't have any remorse towards me and feels I got what I deserved. She couldn't understand why my husband couldn't just leave my daughter and me. I feel also I should say that everyone that has been unfaithful to a mate aren't necessarily bad people. They are humans who have made bad choices and mistakes. Yes her sin is between her and God. It is also between me and her. She knew he was married, she didn't care she wanted what she wanted. It is morally and legally wrong. There is no one who really thinks that affairs are right or they wouldn't keep them hidden would they? Yes there is a moral contract. Also as woman to woman I am hurt. I don't understand how one woman could treat another woman with such disregard. Call me niave or what ever but, I will never understand that.<P>DJ...I am so sorry that you also have this burden of hatred. If the OM in your wife's life had cared for her you probably wouldn't feel any better. It makes it worse I think. I can't wait for the day my husband see's this OW for what she is. So far it looks like that may never happen. He speaks like a man who is in love. <P>Wasstubborn...Congradulations! I am so happy for you and can't wait until I reach the point you are at. My feelings may be justified and understandable but, they are only hurting me. Not anyone else. She probably never even gives me a thought. My hating her would never bother her. In the belief I have of God, hating her is wrong. I should love her and forgive her. I can I expect anyone to forgive me if I can't forgive others? You do although give me hope that someday these horrible feelings will fade and be gone. Thank you so much. I know our situations were similar. You have through all these months lifted me up many times. <P>Toronto...I would love to drop those feelings if someone could just tell me how. I know how unproductive and harmful they are. I want so much for them to go away. I don't want to keep thinking of her she just pops into my head often. For instance tomorrow is my birthday and I am wanting my husband to make it wonderful. I am so affraid I will be disappointed. I know how much energy he put into her birthday. So she pops in my head. Make any sense? My husband asked me once when I am going to get over this and move on. I told him when he does!<P>SuzyQ...we should get together someday. I don't want to have a hate fest. We do have much in common. My husband told me that his OW would never put up with what he put me through or stay with him. She has been married twice and the second one she married without ever loving him. Go figure? She did however love my husband and will forever, so he tells me. So yes we should do lunch one day. It would be nice.<P>Nander...I never said she was the scum of the earth. I never said my husband was the salt of the earth. I am very grown up. Wish I wasn't then this would be easier to get over. My husband is remorseful she is not...do you understand? She is only remorseful because my husband didn't leave me or the family. <P> <P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Samantha-MI (edited September 22, 1999).]

Sorina...I am sorry for your anger and pain. Obviously you are the OW. I never said that my husband was led blindly into this or that he didn't have responsibilty. Of course he did. He was a very unhappy man in a bad marriage. She took advantage of that and played it for all it is worth. She lives life with no regrets...that is a quote. She doesn't look back. Besides I am not her slamming her I am only trying to figure out a way to be compassionate to her as a human being and not hate her. All men are not like your married man...you may think they are but, they are not. If all you say is true then I feel real bad for you and the MM wife. <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Samantha-MI (edited September 22, 1999).]

You asked if anyone could give you suggestions for dealing with your hate for the OW. I have a suggestion that has worked well for me. Every time you think about the OW and how much she hurt you, you are carrying on a relationship with her. Why would you ever want to continue in a relationship with this person? By giving her the time of day in your thoughts, even if they are hateful thoughts, you are giving her your time and energy that she doesn't deserve. Who do you really want to give your energy and time to? For me it was my children and my husband. Even though my husband hurt me more than anyone ever has, I still wanted to devote my energy to my marriage and family, not to this OW whom I had no control over. When you use your thoughts in this negative way remind yourself that you are actually carrying on a relationship with her. By letting go of your negative thoughts and hate for her you are essentially letting go of this relationship you currently have with her. Isn't that what you ultimately want? This has helped me tremendously. I hope it helps you. By the way, it has been almost 2 years since I found out about my husband's affair. I am at the stage where I no longer look for answers to my own pain, but instead look to help others with theirs. I want to offer you hope. Good luck.

Sheba...thanks for putting this all back into proper perspective. I was not trying to start a thread full of bad feelings amoung us. I was only trying to get some advise for a problem that is troubling me personally.<P>Almost Happy...you are so right! Thanks for your response and I am so glad that you did respond. Don't kick yourself. Big hugs your way! Thanks for the insightful last response, it was perfect.<P>Sorina & Nander...appology accepted and I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else.<P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

WELL SAID Perannial, and others on here who have similar views as her.<BR>I spent WAY too much time thinking about the OM, that I forgot about focusing my attention on my wife, who needed it more.<BR>MY wife is the one who made promisies to me, not the OM. By focusing SO much on the OM, i was letting her off the hook, so to speak. i was directing my anger at HIM, not HER. She got off too easy.<BR>What lessons did this teach her?? She even FED my anger by telling me things about HIM, which made me more angry at HIM, and she knew it would distract me from HER !!!<BR>She loved it!<BR>Once you let go of the hate for the OP, you will no longer be allowing this person to be a part of your life any more.<BR>Focus your anger and hurt at your spouse. They were not seduced, raped, or had an affair out of force!! They did wrong, let them know it!!!! From somebody who has been there, and learned.<BR>Ian

Hi, Samantha!<P>Your perspective, analysis, attitude is so correct. I think the first step is wanting to forgive. You do have the heart of God. It comes so clear in your posts.<P>I know that hating the OW is part of our natural desires. And I've been guilty of it, as well. The OW that my first husband left me for, and married - was such a thorn in my heart. I didn't behave very well with her in our lives at all. <P>She is black. I am white. So, my "whiteness" I saw as superior, and used my whiteness to prove to myself I was better than her. I hated her. I hated everything about her, she was a cop - I hated her church, I hated her kids - I hated her money - I hated everything she had an opinion about, I hated everyone who was black, I hated everything. I told ethnic jokes.... <P>Boy did God deal with me! First, he let her have my kids. Custody case. Then he let me lose 20K in custody fees. I kept reading Job. I kept asking WHY? I was angry. I felt more than betrayed. <P>I kept reading Job. At the end of the book, Job forgave his enemies, repented, and even started praying asking God to bless his enemies. I thought to myself - How in the world can I forgive her, and ask God to bless her? She's already taken almost everything from me. But, I decided that I would do just that. I had thought I had forgiven her, but then bitterness came up, etc. But I kept on forgiving her and praying for her.<P>I finally started doing nice things for her. (Boy was that hard.) I started saying nice things about her to my kids and X.<P>Well, long story short - they divorced, and she became my friend in Christ. We write each other about once a week. We both have grown immensely from this experience. My son goes to her church in California! She updates me. She's not perfect, and neither am I. But God is sooo good.<P>And one day, God gave me a prophecy about my career. He told me he would make my name known among all the nations of the earth.... He does have a sense of humor! What line of work am I in? I help resettle refugees. They are from every ethnic background you can imagine.<P>(Deleted information that was to identifiable to me!)<P>So, you know, God can turn something in your heart around. He will. You are on the right track. You will be amazed how God can change lives and hearts.<P>You hang in there!<P> <p>[This message has been edited by trustntruth (edited September 22, 1999).]

Ahhh, and the other thing I forgot to mention, that I feel on my heart is this:<P>God sacrificed so much to be able to forgive. That is hard. We want to protect ourselves sooo bad, to keep from feeling more pain. But the truth is, that there will be a pain that you experience when you do forgive. It hurts to forgive.<P>But it also releases you from what you are feeling now. It is what sets you free.<P>Prayers for you Samantha. You are always in my prayers.

TNT...thanks so much for your prayers. You are always in mine too. <P>I think this hatred is a bigger pain but, maybe I am wrong? <P>It hurts to forgive??? I guess it does. Forgiving my husband didn't hurt but, it does make me feel vulnerable. Like I could be set up for more hurt in the future.<P>I just have never known how to control my feelings or change them. It is funny because Joyce Meyers was talking about not being ruled by feelings last week and this week. She is such a wise woman. God uses her greatly.<P>I really don't want to hate this woman, I want to love her and then forget her. Probably sounds like an oximoron? I want to love her as a child of God but, I desperately want to forget about her. <P>I have the flu and I'm very tired. I am making little sense now I think. I have to work tomorrow and it is my birthday then too. So I am going to try and pull myself away from this contraption and settle in for the night. <P>I will be praying for you all. <P><P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

I get so much from listening and watching Joyce Meyers.<P>Do you get her monthly magazine? You can order it online. <P>www.jmministries.org<P>

TNT...I have been jogging back in forth reading and responding that I missed your second to the last post. Wow...you sure went through it girl. <P>I too have thought of Job. Although I don't feel like I lost it all. Not by any stretch. I am very blessed in what the Lord has given me and another chance.<P>Just wanted to respond once more in case you thought I had egnored your post. I had but, not intentionally. <P>God loves you tons lady and I can tell from your posts that he uses you for his will & the good, big time. I am proud to know you! <P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

TNT...this is so funny we literally posting at the same time. Yes I do get her monthly news letter or magazine thing. I went to her site months ago requesting prayer. I learn tons from her too. What I really like is that she is so real and funny. She always usually makes me laugh. I love that part of her. <P><P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

OK,,finally!!!!!! I finished a great big, long, humongous post,,and it wouldn't go, it erased the whole thing!! Dontcha hate it when that happens!! Anyway,, Samantha, I can relate to what you are going through. When I discovered my H's long term affair 19 months ago, he immediately ended it and we made a new committment to our marriage. Things are better now than I ever dreamed possible. However, at the beginning of our recovery,,, I woke up, and went to bed, seething with hatred and desiring revenge against the OW. Yes, I was angry at my H and hurt but I was able to express those feelings to him, to rant & rage and cry with him. And accept his apologies. But not her. She never once faced me after the discovery or expressed any remorse. I was almost obsessed with terrible thoughts of her. The feelings I had about her really scared me. I had never felt such hatred in my life and didn't like feeling that way. But I couldn't seem to stop myself. I shared these feelings with my counselor and she really set me straight. She explained that my H's poor decisions brought this OW into our life. She had the POWER at that point to destroy us. She was not able to do that. He chose to remove her. Now, by constantly thinking about her, plotting revenge and allowing thoughts of her to make me unhappy, "I" was now inviting her back, without any effort on her part, to continue to destroy us. Now "I" was giving her the POWER. Don't give her that power Samantha. Instead of hating her,,I now pity her, She thought so little of herself that she lied, cheated and sneaked for companionship. She lied to my face when I asked her if she was seeing my H, listened to him say he loved his wife & family and would never leave them, and yet,,still, continued to see him. How little she must have thought of herself. She must have felt she didn't deserve or couldn't get anything better. That's pretty sad. Don't allow thoughts of her to ruin your chances of recovery. He is home with you,,where he chose to be,,,not with her! Our marriage is better now than I would have ever thought possible..and it IS possible. Alot of hard, hard work but worth it. Now, I won't say for one minute that I don't still have occassional nasty thoughts of her (if she was laying in an intersection and an onslaught on traffic was approaching, you wouldn't catch me out there, redirecting traffic ) but I try to push them out and concentrate on us. WE are worth more than that and I WON"T give her that POWER. <P> <p>[This message has been edited by Nerlycrzy (edited September 22, 1999).]

Nerlycryzy,<BR>Just wanted to say Hi....it's been a while, glad you are still making your way.<P>Take Care,<BR>DG99(H)

Samantha-<BR>This is one of the ramifications of the affair that I have been able to successfully get past. I think this is because I hold only H accountable to me. I certainly don't want OW as a friend, but as I told one of them, "he just happened to choose you" And this is sincerely how I feel. <P>Just like any "temptation", my H didn't have to "bite", but he did. I trusted him to resist temptation and honor his vow to me. Sure I wish she had respected our marriage, but she didn't. And w/three affairs, he has shown me that there is always someone willing and available to "partake", regardless of who the pursuer is.<P>So while I am not pleased with the OW's participation, I know that my anger is w/him and HIS choice. <P>Good Luck and God Bless!

Hi Samantha...<P>Funny thing, my birthday is on Sept. 23rd too. For one week, I have been thinking about what my H did for the OW for her birthday. It was upsetting me especially since the affair was supposed to have been over by then. So, I can understand how you are feeling about the birthday situation.<P>Although my H's affair was over back in March, I still feel much hatred for that OW. She didn't give a damn about me or my family, so I don't give a damn about her.<P>She once asked my H if he still loved me. He answered "yes." Do you think that stopped her from pursuing him? No, it didn't. My H is at fault too for making a lousy decision that will haunt him for the rest of his life.<P>I don't obssess about the OW as much anymore, but she sure pops up in my head from time to time.<P>It sounds like the advice you are getting from others is pretty good. I don't know if I can follow it myself because I don't want to forgive that OW. I hope that someday she will suffer the way me and my family had to suffer. I'll never forgive my H for what he did and I've already told him that. For me, forgiving is like canceling it out and pretending it never happened. But, we have moved on to deal with the trauma. We do have an excellent relationship now and I do not lovebust.<P>I guess all I have to say is what you are feeling is normal. We're only human, you know....

Hate. Such a powerful emotion. One that I had NEVER really experienced before this last year.<P>Many would not agree, but I've come to feel that learning to hate, was necessary for me. I do not suppress this feeling, as suppressing your feelings leads to a place where you cannot feel any emotions intensity. You cannot love at it's highest level, nor laugh, nor cry......I llok at it now, the same way I look at all painful emotions. Like grief, if you hide from your grief it eventually consumes you. Therefore, I no longer hide from my hate. I'm acknowledging it when it shows itself, I feel it, I pray about it, and I push it aside. Sooner or later, hate will recede, just as grief does. Just my two cents.

Samantha,<P>You raised a lot of issues in your response to me, and I agree with some but not others. That's ok, that's what adults do. I'm going to march on anyway.<P>There are a lot of people out there who are Hindu, Islam, Christian, New Age, Agnostic, Atheist, etc. 2500 known religions in all at last count. Most of these are good people who feel they are comfortable with their relationship with God (as they see him). I don't see what that has to do with anything. Her relationship with "God" is her business. I don't think you can use it as a character generalization. Your points are valid and the affair was wrong even if she is an atheist. And your husband may be completely honest about her to you now, but he hasn't always been. I wonder why he is even telling you what her perspective on God is. I mean, who really cares? If she professed to be a bible thumbing, born again double Christian, what would that change?<P>I also understand your perspective that you believe there is a social contract amongst women to leave married men alone out of respect. It is clear you would live that way. But I think it would be more accurate to say you believe there "should" be a social contract that everyone obeys. In a perfect world I would agree. I also think nobody should steal from other people, but I still lock my car. Fact is, there are lots of people out there who really don't care. This woman is just one of them.<P>It is my opinion the blame for the affair lies solely with your husband. He is the one who had made a promise to you and he is the one who broke it. This OW was simply looking out for her own interest with complete disregard for others. There are LOTS of people like that. Self help books even encourage that sort of behavior these days. Especially if they are written in California, the "What about ME!" state. But I digress.<P>Believe me, if you rely on the women of the world to keep him on the strait and narrow you are in for more and bigger disappointments. There are worse women out there than this OW. And he will run in to them eventually.<P>And how do we know what he really told her? Most cheaters are telling their OP that they never should have gotten married, that the marriage is over anyway, that they wished they had met (new OP) before they got married, that they want to do they right thing but this just feels so right, that they are so in love, etc. It makes me sick. <P>There aren't too many women who will pursue a guy who says "forget it, I love my wife and I'm never leaving her." I've never heard of a woman who would get involved with a married man unless she thought there was a good chance she could "win" him. One night stands excepted. Chances are, he was lying to her too.<P>In most states it is no longer legally wrong to commit adultery. It doesn't even affect the outcome of the divorce procedures any more. The courts consider it a personal issue. Some states allow you to skip the one year waiting period, which I think is inane. All that does is allow the cheating bums to marry their lovers earlier.<P>If you want to figure out who cheated on you, you have to figure out who promised you they wouldn't. Everyone else is just backdrop. This OW may be a despicable and scummy example of a human being, but she isn't worth your hatred.<BR>

Samantha<BR>I just wanted you to know you are in my prayers. Really, girl - if I can do this anyone can. The reall difference came for me with acceptance.<BR>Yes we want to do what the Bible says. We want to forgive like God forgives. The secret is that He is God. We are not. We are human. We have faults. We know where we want to be.<BR>Accept that these emotions are human. There are three people in an affair. We forgive our Hs out of love and because they show remorse. That was the biggest reason I had trouble with the OW. She had no REMORSE.<BR>She hurt my children. She stole from them.<BR>Sorry but she was there too. She doesn't get absolution from me just because she didn't speak any marriage vows. She broke a few of the commandments.<BR>If someone vandalizes your house they are not innocent because they didn't make any vows to you.<BR>So yes she is partly responsible for your pain. Accept it. Don't pretend it is any different.<BR>Now remember what a good person you are!!!<BR>Thank the Lord that you have morals. Give your anger to him. Not just once but every time you fell it.<BR>It will come. Forgiving is not a one time thing. The tough stuff has to be dealt with over and over.<BR>