What does this mean exactly? How does one accomplish it? How do I get him to understand what I mean when I say that I feel like he doesn't pursue me?

If I tell him how to "pursue" me, is that not still my pursuit of HIM!

A logical answer to accomplishing it would be to STOP pursuing him so he will then naturally be the pursuer. I have tried this and it has failed, miserably, only adding more confusion to the dilemna. If I stop pursuing it comes across as my being distant. He then feels as though there is a wall and retreats (the opposite of pursuing).

What is one to surmise from that? Does that mean that I don't really mean that much to him? Does that mean that he doesn't love me as much as I love him? My natural tendency is to interpret it that way. I am posting this in an attempt to have an open mind. So here I am...trying to be OPEN MINDED.

Interesting question.

Don't think that you are really asking for how to define pursuit. Sounds like you are asking if you are crazy for feeling the way you feel about his lack of pursuit.

You are not.

Without knowing your situation, and in truth, it doesn't really matter, I will take a stab at trying to answer what I think you are really asking.

First - From the short paragraph, I immediately understand what you mean by "pursue" (I am a male FS). I think most guys would.

Second - In a HEALTHY (yours? I don't know.) marriage, if it is an important need of yours, your spouse should try and fill it unless it is extremely distasteful to him/her. That's what a marriage is. The whole success (and mine is failing, so take this with a grain of salt) hinges on having a servant's heart.

A marriage is a bowl. It will remain empty as long as you are taking out more than you are putting in. (Not mine, wish it were).

Now, IF he is not attempting to meet this need of being pursued, you cannot necessarily infer he does not love you. He may not know HOW to love you. The book "The Five Love Languages" popped up on another thread tonight. It is an excellent book.

VERY brief synopsis: We, by default, tend to SPEAK to our spouse in the love language WE WANT TO HEAR. The trick? Learn your SPOUSES love language and speak that to them.

Sounds like your husband needs to have a little sit down and understand that although HE may be thinking he is expressing love to you (and he MAY in his language), if you are not hearing it, it might as well not be done. He should stop spinning his wheels.

On to the does he love you question....

You WILL NEVER KNOW if your spouse REALLY loves you. This will sound a little extreme, but you cannot rule out the possibility he is faking the whole thing. The only way to KNOW for SURE is to be able to read his mind. Too good to be true.

What can you know? Well, based on how much he SERVES (and not necessarily serves as in a butler or maid, but I mean puts your needs ahead of his own JOYFULLY) you, it gives you some indication as to whether or not he really loves you.

It's an odds game. If he has a true servants heart and is speaking a couple of your love languages that are not in his nature, you can be pretty sure he loves you. See? But to absolutely KNOW? Too much to ask. But life has risks. YOU know your husband. YOU have a sense for the "odds" to the "does he love me" question. If you are OK with the odds, then you are OK.

Don't second guess. In fact, don't FIRST guess. If you are trying to figure out what he is thinking or feeling, it is a guess at best and that is all it will ever be.

COMMUNICATE with him. And at some point, there must be some trust. Which is why all these affairs are so damaging.

In my own situation, it is that loss of trust that has become the removal of the capstone, as it were.

Hope that helps.

NCWalker

To answer your questions...

I was asking both, actually...what the definition is (so I could communicate it better to him), and if I was crazy. Thankfully, you answered both.

Which EN would the need for pursuit fall under? Affection or Admiration are my best guesses...probably affection. The more I think about it, the more that fits. When he pursues me, I then feel valued, loved, desired, special etc...

My marriage is not healthy, but we're trying desperately and diligently to get there.

Interesting that you mentioned learning to speak each other's languages. I presented this angle to him right before he walked out the door. (kinda makes me feel smart that I thought of it and then you said it, too).

I will agree that he does not know HOW to accomplish this. He also finds it quite frustrating that if I bring it up and he does try, then his actions still fail to meet my need because I feel like I had to pursue him into pursuing me (does that many ANY sense?).

He knows that he is spinning his wheels, he just can't seem to get any traction no matter how hard he tries. He does try.

As far as the "does he love me odds" - well our current situation (the A) doesn't make the odds look good.

I have communicated this to him. We had quite an in depth discussion just before I posted this (he had to leave).

Situation:

He had to leave to go pick up his son (3 hour drive, round trip). It was assumed earlier in the day (by both) that I would go with him.

Right before departure time I think he asked if I wanted to go (I hear: It doesn't matter to me if you go or not). I say that the last couple of times we were at odds and spent the trip in silence followed by my falling asleep from lack of conversation. I ask him what he would like to talk about on the drive so we could avoid this.

He says he doesn't really have anything to talk about. He doesn't know what we can talk about.

Somewhere around this time I tell him that I guess I will opt for staying behind. He says that is fine - see ya later, bye.

He senses my disappointment, as I have a difficult time cloaking my emotions. He gets frustrated because he has to go, but if he does I might feel hurt.

At this point I convey my feelings. He explains that he knows it's a boring drive and was trying not to subject me to it.

I tell him that I would always opt for spending time with him if given the choice. The fact that it doesn't seem to matter one way or the other to him makes me feel unimportant. I tell him I no longer desire to go.

The old familiar H's catch 22 situation comes into play. If he doesn't ask me to come along - he doesn't care. If he does - He only asked because I goaded him into it (not accomplishing the pursuit).

I bring up the "speaking each other's language" angle to try to take the blame and pressure off of him. I tell him that I understand that he has to leave and will not be upset if he does (because I know that's why he's still sitting there).

We end on a decent note with nothing resolved but some things to think about and consider.

I am feeling good about the positive note and when he mentions that he is sleepy, I tell him that maybe this time I could drive and he could sleep (this was my attempt at reconciliation and at easing his guilt.) I thought he would be pleased that I made the decision to come along. He then tells me he has some things to think about now - he'll just go alone.

OUCH - that one stung. Now I not only feel un-pursued, I feel rejected too.

Back to square -10.

This is just one example in a long line of unpursuitedness. The worst one was D-Day. When his A came to light, he had the attitude of "This sucks - now you're going to leave". I couldn't believe he didn't seem to consider me valuable enough to even fight for me. I said that to him incredulously - You're not even going to FIGHT for me? Then he did. At the ONE TIME where you might think he would be the one pursuing, it was still me! I find that a bit humiliating.

This pursuit thing has us stumped.

It also doesn't help matters that in his previous relationship he shamelessly pursued this woman for a year, two weeks of which they were actually in a relationship. He continued to pursue her after the two weeks. He even ended things with me a week after we began dating because she gave him a small sign of hope. I know he is capable of it - I've witnessed it. I just have not been on the receiving end of it.

OK.

I see some patterns here.

IF your husband were here listening to me, I would say some things to him. But he is not and you are so I will say some things to YOU.

First - If life were fair, there would be referees. Do you see any? Now that we got that out of the way, I too, am the FS. My WW is out with OM#2 (probably) right now. It sucks and it ain't fair. But it IS. We can whine all day about how unfair it is, or we can live our lives.

Second - Live your life. Live it the best you can. That is all you can do. That is what will allow you to look in the mirror and be happy with yourself.

Third - STOP JUDGING HIM!!! (Remember, I am talking to you, the goal here is to help you be a better you. I am NOT saying he isn't doing anything wrong, but you can't change him, so stop trying.) You are jumping to conclusions about what he is thinking. He is a guy. It means he is a linear thinker. You are circling and perusing and bemusing and emoting and it is frustrating to him.

Here is the ideal relationship to a guy...
I meet someone. I don't like them. We exchange words that are harsh. We get in a fight and beat each other to a pulp. We become best friends from then on out.

Did you catch it? We DON'T mince words. We DON'T waste time with messiness. We just like to duke it out, get all the bad stuff out of the way up front, then we are friends.

Consider him a 10 year old boy trapped in an adults body. Because THAT IS WHAT HE IS. If he is not practiced at reading what you REALLY mean, I have one question for you - WHY ARE YOU TESTING HIM?!?!?!

Darlin', the test was when you were dating. He passed because you married him. Don't test him now, give him the answers. At the end of the day, ask yourself what you want. Do you want to watch him struggle and flounder and grapple with the complexity that is his wife, or do you want him to learn how YOU like to be loved? It's not hard, really. Give the guy a break and give him the answers to the test.

Talk to him like this...

Actually, first, don't talk, THINK about what you want to say, then TRANSLATE it to communicate to a 10 year old boy. When you have stripped away all the nuances that are the poetry of conversation to a woman, you will have an effective bullet comment for a man. THINK about what you are trying to tell him, then EDIT it and condense it and phrase it exactly like this:

Honey, when you do (THIS) it makes me feel like (THIS) and I think (THIS).

(BTW, I got that from a guy named John Bradshaw on a series about relationships. Good stuff.)

If you can't say that in about a half a breath, it isn't condensed enough for him. You will probably have to do it a few times. Men have thick skulls and it is one of our cons. But there is a pro to it too, when we finally get it, we really get it, got it?

To him I would say - wake up and listen, patience, patience, patience with her. Nurture her. Stop being lazy.

But we are talking about you...

Is it work? Heck yes. Is it fair? Heck no. He cheated on you.

But I am not here to throw you a pity party, just give you my VERY humble opinion.

You have to look at it like this, it's the first day of the rest of your lives. Do you want your marriage to be better, or do you want him to prove something to you?

Now my caveat... YOU MUST KNOW YOUR BOUNDARIES AND COMMUNICATE THEM TO HIM. He does not deserve a Carte Blanche to make all the mistakes he wants. No spouse does. The communication of your boundaries (and his adherence, or lack thereof) is what will increase the "odds" of whether or not he loves you.

NCWalker

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHY ARE YOU TESTING HIM?!?!?!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because I don't know what's real and what isn't anymore and I can't trust his words. I can only look at his actions. The specific action I mentioned (on the subject of pursuit) tells me that I am not valuable to him. I discussed it with him because I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt without being presumptuous.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't test him now, give him the answers.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is what I was attempting to do by discussing it with him. "I want you to pursue me." - there's an answer. What actions can he take that would convey that to me or "speak my language"? I don't have that answer. I'm seeking it, hence this thread.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you want to watch him struggle and flounder and grapple with the complexity that is his wife, or do you want him to learn how YOU like to be loved? It's not hard, really. Give the guy a break and give him the answers to the test.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am hardly complex. I am an open book. If he looked closely enough he would see that the book is actually an instruction manual. I am trying to teach him how I want to be loved. I have told him on numerous occasions that the pursuit thing is important to me. Sure, I might have approached it from a "this is what NOT to do angle" because I am finding it difficult to define what specific action he can take to accomplish this. I am also struggling with the fact that it seems that if I have to tell him to pursue - it isn't exactly pursuit. It's still me pursuing him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TRANSLATE it to communicate to a 10 year old boy</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Instead of me learning to speak "10-year-old boy-ese", why can't he just learn to speak "adult- ese"?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Honey, when you do (THIS) it makes me feel like (THIS) and I think (THIS).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have tried this. Tonight was not the first time we have discussed my driving to pick up his son with him and how important it was for me to feel like he wanted me to come along - as opposed to his not minding whether I did or not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you want your marriage to be better, or do you want him to prove something to you?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why can't I have both? I am proving something to him by remaining in this relationship and working so hard to make it better.

Because I don't know what's real and what isn't anymore and I can't trust his words. I can only look at his actions. The specific action I mentioned (on the subject of pursuit) tells me that I am not valuable to him. I discussed it with him because I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt without being presumptuous.

You never knew what was REAL. You have just recently been made painfully aware of the fact that you don’t really know. How many times did you discuss it with him? Men can be DENSE. Be honest with yourself, did you REALLY discuss it, or did you force a discussion on him thinking he was being receptive? (Please do not be offended by that, we are talking about you, remember? I would say other things to him.) The point is – for you to live with yourself and NOT second guess a decision you make due to this issue, you have to be SURE of your decision. You have to be sure you did your best so that 3 months from now you are not looking at yourself saying “If only I had…”

That is what I was attempting to do by discussing it with him. "I want you to pursue me." - there's an answer. What actions can he take that would convey that to me or "speak my language"? I don't have that answer. I'm seeking it, hence this thread.

Sorry. We can only tell you what pursuit would look like to us, not you. Do you…
…want him to get in a bar fight defending your honor?
… call and court you hoping for a smile or some dropped handkerchief?
… out panache your other suitors with the biggest and best bouquet?

Tell him, see if he will do it. Start by asking yourself “I know he would be pursuing me if he was doing…” I’m not sure YOU know what it would look like.

I am hardly complex. I am an open book. If he looked closely enough he would see that the book is actually an instruction manual.

Stop and think about that. If it WERE true, he WOULD get it. Either that or he is a lazy bum who really doesn’t love you. Could be your answer there. Neither of those options are very palpable. Most likely, you are more complex (to him) than you think. Here is one of my favorite quotes from Ben Franklin:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like a man traveling in foggy weather, those at some distance before him on the road he sees wrapped up in the fog, as well as those behind him, and also the people in the fields on each side, but near him all appears clear, though in truth he is as much in the fog as any of them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I were trying to save the marriage, I wouldn’t necessarily assume that what is obvious to me is obvious to my spouse. That judgment thing again.

I am trying to teach him how I want to be loved. I have told him on numerous occasions that the pursuit thing is important to me. Sure, I might have approached it from a "this is what NOT to do angle" because I am finding it difficult to define what specific action he can take to accomplish this.

If you are doing the same thing over and over, and getting the same result, why would you be surprised? Time for a change. As I said before, either your method is not working, or he doesn’t care. Time to change your method. Either way, you will have the answer. He will change or he will prove he doesn’t care. Keep doing the same thing, and you will get the same result. And learn nothing.

WARNING. That is not FAIR. I know. Been there, done that. In the dream world, our WS would be on their knees bending over backwards to make amends for this tragic wrong. The reality is that the FS usually has to drag them kicking and screaming out of their destructive situations and only much later do they appreciate it. And sometimes not at all. You have to deal with the cards you have been dealt. You CAN throw in the towel, no one will fault you for it. He DID have an affair.

I am also struggling with the fact that it seems that if I have to tell him to pursue - it isn't exactly pursuit. It's still me pursuing him.

You are thinking too much. He had an affair. He CAN’T be that skilled at relationships, or he would have had the sense to NOT hurt you like that. The only other explanation is you are SO HORRIBLE he HAD to have the affair. Few people would be THAT bad and I don’t think you were/are. Therefore the only explanation is the first one. He lacks the basic skills/common sense to be in a healthy, long-term relationship. That means NO it is NOT that obvious to him. So guess what. School is now in session, and you have to teach him. Again, NOT FAIR. Been there, done that. So have most FS on this board.

Instead of me learning to speak "10-year-old boy-ese", why can't he just learn to speak "adult- ese"?

Because he is not. He is not there yet. He SHOULD learn. But that doesn’t mean he knows now. May not mean he will EVER learn. I am fairly skilled at wording things, or so I am told, but I don’t do well in the relationship department. Sometimes I only pull the foot out of my mouth for the purpose of changing which one is in there. Deal with it. We (men) put up with PMS and joke about it. Most men (especially when they are tired, or a games on, or something is distracting them) don’t get the cognitive juices up above the 10 year old level unless we absolutely have to. Just being honest. He probably is not that different from most men in this department. An excuse for poor behavior? Absolutely not. But you have a reality to live in, and that MAY be it. Until he (hopefully) learns.

I have tried this. Tonight was not the first time we have discussed my driving to pick up his son with him and how important it was for me to feel like he wanted me to come along - as opposed to his not minding whether I did or not.

See above. Mix it up. Try a different tack. You can always quit.

Why can't I have both? I am proving something to him by remaining in this relationship and working so hard to make it better.

You can. If you get it, consider yourself lucky. But you have no RIGHT to it. You have two things - the CHOICE to tough it out and work on the marriage, or the RIGHT to cut and run because he had an affair. There is no guarantee for ANYTHING else. Only hope. How long has the affair been over? Is he still in the fog? Is he willing to do the grunt work to meet both for you? Then ask yourself this. What if he ISN’T? If you HAD to pick one of the two, which would it be? Most people cannot change their habits in several areas at the same time. PRIORITIZE. Go after the significant few, and the heck with the insignificant many.

Look. At the end of the day, it is about two things. Choices and boundaries.

Choices are the things you make so that you can live with yourself.
Boundaries are the things you define so you can live with others.

YOU have to be comfortable with your choices and your boundaries. If he cannot respect your boundaries, or you can’t make the choice to tolerate his crossing them for some time (which you set in your mind) until he learns them, it isn’t going to work. If you guys CAN do that for each other, it is. It’s pretty simple, it just ain’t easy.

For the times it is not easy, come here and vent. That’s what we are here for. (Among other things).

My prayers are with you,

NCWalker

Hi 'frozen'.
I think of 'pursue' as 'a chase' to capture or win someone.

No one can pursue what they already have.

So, once a couple gets in a committed relationship, there is no more pursuit by either.

However, if he thinks there may be someone else pursuing you, he might once again get in the CHASE. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

froz, I see a lot of how I used to be in you. I agree with much of what ncwalker said to you. Be clear on your needs and communicate them simply to patriot. froz, have you read The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands? Great book for some insight into men. I wish I could say more, I know I could offer you some insight but my brain just doesn't want to function this morning. {froz}

I'm not sure exactly why it is that I'm being misunderstood here. My original questions was this...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What does this mean exactly? How does one accomplish it? How do I get him to understand what I mean when I say that I feel like he doesn't pursue me? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I then went on to say that I HAVE communicated this to him, and to state some examples that made me feel NOT PURSUED in hopes that someone would understand my perceived definition of the word (or the opposite of it) or perhaps tell me their definition hoping that I could relate to it to have a better understanding of what it is I'm seeking from him. He asked me for specifics. I am looking for ways to convey this to him, but was having trouble articulating it so he could understand.

All I have received thus far with regards to responses are criticisms, and suggestions to "make him jealous" so he will give chase.

I have read The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands, though I don't see how my learning to meet HIS needs is going to assist me to help him understand specifically how to meet this particular need of mine - the task at hand.

I was hoping for ideas.

Frozen, I just don't understand.
How can he pursue you when he already has you?

Or are you saying you just want to FEEL his love, affection and caring for you?
Maybe you want to hear him say you are the one he wants to grow old with.

Keep explaining and we will understand what you are needing from your H and thus help you to get it across to him.

Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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<small>[ February 26, 2005, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

Sorry froz that we are not getting it. I took as you wanting to feel wanted. That deep need led me to my A, not a purty thing I tell you. I wanted to know my H desired me in and out of bed, but especially in bed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The reason I recommeded the Proper care and Feeding is for you to understand how straight forward men think and to perhaps help you communicate with patriot.

Sorry.

Did not mean to be critical.

I understand now. You want to be able to explain to your H how to pursue you.

Do you want him to be a knight, captured by your beauty and virture?

Do you want him to be a horn-dog aroused by your sensuality?

Do you want him to be desparate for fear he may lose you?

Motivation of a man to pursue would be for various reasons. In my mind, only the first example above is virtuous. The second involves a little too much "fleshly" thinking and the last involves specifically introducing jealousy where it does not belong - a marriage.

But it is YOUR needs that need to be met, and whatever form they take, HE should attempt to meet them if he loves your and it does not cross any of HIS boundaries. Having said that, you also must be aware that having to pursue his wife may be a deal breaker for him.

But to your immediate problem - how to communicate it to him. If I were you, and 'splaining it a straightforward way did not work, or he did not get it, I would give him a more colorful example.

Find a romance novel, or any love story for that matter, where the heroine is pursued in a way similar to how you would like to be pursued. Have him read it and tell him to do it like that.

Would like his input on how you have told him, if he is posting. If MY wife gave me the answers to the test, I would have jumped at the chance to meet her needs.

If the novel idea doesn't work, then keep pounding on us. We don't seem to understand real clearly what you mean by pursue. Take the time to explain it to us on the board, and when we get it to your satisfaction, you will have an explanation he SHOULD understand. Then just have him read it.

NCW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand now. You want to be able to explain to your H how to pursue you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry. I guess I wasn't very clear and I think you guys may be taking the term 'pursuit' literally. I don't want him to think he doesn't 'have' me already. He does.

I read somewhere (can't remember where - maybe Men Are From Mars...) that the dynamic of pursuit still exists in relationships, even beyond marriage. For instance...

If I call my H in the morning at work and ask him if he'd like to have lunch with me...I just pursued him. If we had an argument about something and haven't spoken for an hour or so and I go to him to try to open the lines of communication...I just pursued him. If a man cheats on his fiance and upon discovery, he tells her that he messed up huge and would do anything to make it up to her if only she would stay...THAT is pursuit. If he just sits there and silently accepts the fate that she will probably leave..that is NOT pursuit. If she tells him "Aren't you even going to TRY to keep me". Well, then she has just pursued him.

I guess a very feeble attempt at a synonym would maybe be 'initiative'. Why can't you try to win your spouse over - time and time again. What is so wrong about letting your spouse know that you still choose them time and time again - by taking the initiative to call her and invite HER to lunch. Sure, maybe his accepting her invitation for lunch is showing her he wants her and loves to spend time with her. Wouldn't it make her feel even more wanted if he took the initiative to call her and invite her?

I feel as though I have always been the one to take the initiative to be close to him, especially at the most crucial points of our relationship. His lack of initiative or 'pursuit' of me has left me feeling unloved, unspecial, and unimportant. It has often left me feeling as though I care for him more than he cares for me. I just want those feelings of care reciprocated. I need actions that show me that I am important to him, that he considers me valuable, that I am special to him, etc...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you want him to be a knight, captured by your beauty and virture?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sure...before his A, I let HIM know daily that I was captivated by him and that he was my hero.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you want him to be desparate for fear he may lose you?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">An emphatic NO! I don't want him to feel insecure! I want him to feel loved and wanted. I have always tried to give him that because it is such a blessing to feel secure in a relationship. I'm not sure where that question came from - except maybe you derived it from my example of his lack of pursuit on D-Day. The desperation of fear that he may lose me was valid and existed without my placing it there. I just wanted him to show me that I was important to him and worth fighting for.

The problem I had with stating what specific actions he could take to convey this to me or to meet this need were this...

It's not really initiative if I tell him exactly what to do. I take the initiative for him if I do that - still not accomplishing meeting the need. This is what I am struggling with. I don't mind telling him that I need for him to take initiative sometimes because I feel like I am most often the one to do it (to pursue him), but if I tell him exactly how to do it I feel as though I am robbing him of the opportunity to take initiative. It's not really a lunch date that I'm after (I can get that by calling him and asking him to lunch) - it's that I want to feel wanted (or pursued) by having him extend the invitation sometimes. (This is just an example)

I appreciate your patience with me. I hope I haven't just made things even more unclear.

Thanks for hanging in there with me,

Froz

<small>[ February 26, 2005, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

Absolutely not.

You have just made things VERY clear. I think what threw us all was the word "pursuit." I am continually frustrated by this medium of communication. You cannot emphasize words well, there is no body language. ARRRGGH!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

OK. What YOU want is him to take the initiative (probably in ways OTHER than SF). It is the initiator of an exchange that you have defined as the pursuer and now we can make some progress.

You want him to

...leave you a card, just because.
...call you from work and tell you he just wanted to hear your voice.
...ask FIRST if you want to meet him for lunch when he leaves in the morning.
...ask about YOUR day when he gets home before you ask him about his.
...take the time to initiate and plan some event that is meaningful to you and maybe less so to him. Examples might be setting up a date with another couple you know. Going to a Bible study. Taking a trip to a museum.

Have the two of your read the "5 Love Languages"? Yours might be gifts (and time and interest can be considered a gift).

Darn it, you just want him to be INTERESTED in you.

Sounds like he may not be listening. Or not connecting the dots between what he will gain if he meets this need in you.

Is he a Christian man? I am going to say it AGAIN. It is all about the SERVANT'S HEART. I would suggest you see if he would be interested in attending a Promise Keepers session at a church in your area. That is a bunch of men who are interested in being Godly husbands and fathers. They talk about what works and what doesn't. It is actually pretty light hearted. Kind of a club. Results are typically pretty amazing. I would ask him if he would consider going and also ask him what has he got to lose by checking one out.

NCWalker

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by frozen1229:
<strong> [QUOTE]It's not really initiative if I tell him exactly what to do. I take the initiative for him if I do that - still not accomplishing meeting the need. This is what I am struggling with. I don't mind telling him that I need for him to take initiative sometimes because I feel like I am most often the one to do it (to pursue him), but if I tell him exactly how to do it I feel as though I am robbing him of the opportunity to take initiative. It's not really a lunch date that I'm after (I can get that by calling him and asking him to lunch) - it's that I want to feel wanted (or pursued) by having him extend the invitation sometimes. (This is just an example)
Froz </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have seen this issue come up so many times, in so many places.

Let me feed you the practical side of it.

You will need to tell him exactly the TYPE of initiation you would like to have from him, how often, and the best times to do it. When he gets it right, you tell him. When he misses it, you tell him why and how he could have done it right.

Expect the same from him on his issues.

Everyone seems to want INSTANT fixes (not picking on you Froz) for relational issues that simply require practice. Lots and lots of practice.

No one is born great at relationships, not even girls. It requires PRACTICE for both spouses.

Don 't let the misses get you down, these are normal issues that affect all relationships, not just ones injured by affairs.

Alll the best,
Gimble

NCW -

Wow, it feels good to be heard. Thank you for your patience. My husband is a Christian. I have heard of Promise Keepers. I will mention it to him. I am more than a little interested in checking out the book you mentioned. It sounds extremely applicable to my situation. I will purchase it tomorrow.

Thank you again,

Frozen


Gimble,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You will need to tell him exactly the TYPE of initiation you would like to have from him, how often, and the best times to do it. When he gets it right, you tell him. When he misses it, you tell him why and how he could have done it right.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have already done this. I could have been a little more informative on the 'type' of initiation. I don't want to rob him of the opportunity, so I told him just enough to understand what I mean. I may not have told him exactly 'when' but I have informed him of hits and misses.

I know there are no instant fixes - believe me I know, but Gimble, I'm running on empty here. I've given this relationship everything I have from the very beginning. I still continue to give even when I think I have nothing left. I don't mean to be negative - but I'm running too low on resources. The distance between us gets greater every day and I'm just about depleted of 'fight'. It just hurts too **** much.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by frozen1229:
<strong> I know there are no instant fixes - believe me I know, but Gimble, I'm running on empty here. I've given this relationship everything I have from the very beginning. I still continue to give even when I think I have nothing left. I don't mean to be negative - but I'm running too low on resources. The distance between us gets greater every day and I'm just about depleted of 'fight'. It just hurts too **** much. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, back off a bit and get some rest. Go take a hot bath and go to bed. If you are physically tired, then take a break. If you are mentally worn out, then take a break - read a book, play solitare, whatever.

If you are emotionally tired, and that is what it sounds like to me, then you can take a break there too, on purpose. It's okay to do that sometimes too.

The distance you are feeling, is at least in part, self generated. That part you deal with just like you are dealing with your other emotions. Perception and reality, are very often, very different.

No tricks, just decisions. It is early in your recovery yet. There are some good feelings and some bad yet to be explored. There is nothing wrong with telling Patriot that you need to back off a little for a couple of days to get your head straight.

Whatever you do, make sure that you actually decide to do it rather than floating along. It will help you get the most from your rest, and from your action times.

Let me give you a real world example. You find yourself sitting at the kitchen table on a rainy Sunday afternoon. You feel bad because tomorrow is Monday, and you haven't done all you needed to do. Monday morning arrives and you are worn out.

A better approach would have been to DECIDE that Sunday, you were going to read a book and watch the rain or TV or whatever you feel like, including just napping. You make a decision to rest and relax. Monday morning, the lack of guilt for having spent a day relaxing isn't going to rob you of the benefit you received.

There is more to it than semantics.

You deal with pain in the same way. Pain is always worse when you are tired.

All the best,
Gimble