OK.....here we go.........2X4's welcome

I'm not sure how to say this. Or how to put it into words, exactly.

I read at MB a fair amount. And usually, I primarily relate to the WS, since I had the first A in the relationship. Anyhow, every once in a while, I come across a post where a BS exposes that they had their own A ____ years ago....yet their WS doesn't know, or they just found out. And in the same post, they dismiss their infidelity as "it was the past, it's over, and I can't change it." For some reason, I seem to trigger at it.

As I read, I start to feel a certain resentment toward that particular BS. And I have negative thoughts.

"How can they sit there and hold such hatred, and say such horrible things about WS when they, themselves, did the same thing before."

"How can they only focus on their role as the BS - when they have never addressed their own role as the WS?"

"Don't they ever think that their participation in an A might have also contributed to the condition of their M?"

"They complain about their WS wanting to 'move on,' but they never dealt with their own infidelity."


I'm trying to explore why I feel so strongly about this. Is it because I feel it's hypocritical to 'punish' or 'bash' the WS when the BS has committed the same crime? Or is it just that I feel so strongly about honesty and addressing the reasons behind past actions....that I feel angry when only one person in the M is being honest?

I suppose it could be that I caught my H in a full fledged EA when he was reportedly 'working it out with me.' And he had consistently 'punished' me and emotionally/verbally 'bashed' me while lying to me the entire time. Or it could be that I feel he never truly felt remorse for his first EA (when we were engaged) and yet I know how much his first EA hurt and changed me.

Perhaps it is simply that I haven't forgiven my H yet for his most recent EA. He isn't remorseful, doesn't believe that he did anything wrong (because he didn't F*** her), and so believes that my A is the only issue in our M.

Please, if anyone has any ideas on this, please contribute. I mean no offense, but this is something I need to work through.....as apparently I hold quite a bit of resentment inside.

Thanks - 2X4's welcome.

<small>[ February 26, 2005, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: L.I.T ]</small>

L.I.T, I understand how you feel. Certainly A's in the past that went undiscovered are "different" than A's in the present that broke up a marriage, or at least were the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. But, no bad behavior is ever justified by anyone else's bad behavior. When both partners are hurting we tend to lash out and get defensive. Figuring out who's behavior is worse, or sweeping an A under the rug because you had one, too, obviously won't help us heal. One of the tenets of the MB philosophy is that anybody can have an A. Recovery demands that we stop blaming and start taking responsibility for our own part in the marriage failure.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Certainly A's in the past that went undiscovered are "different" than A's in the present that broke up a marriage, or at least were the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LetSTry.....could you please explain this? I suppose I don't really understand because I confessed my A to my H. I imagine that I could have also kept it from him, but I truly believed that eventually it would destroy our M anyway....and I also felt I needed to at least give him some of the respect that I took from him by having the A.

In this statement, I am reading that perhaps by not confessing the A, my M might have had a different outcome? Maybe we could have made it?

I must be misunderstanding here.........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But, no bad behavior is ever justified by anyone else's bad behavior. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I completely agree. Which is why I have to focus on why I chose to have the A (instead of a healthier alternative such as counseling or D). Now I also know it is important to realize how both my H and I contributed to the vulnerability of the M, but I cannot 'blame' or 'justify' my choice to have the A based on that. My choice was a weakness within myself that I am having to address.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Recovery demands that we stop blaming and start taking responsibility for our own part in the marriage failure. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So true. And I suppose I am struggling with this part. I don't blame my H for the failure of the M. I realize we both took part in that. But I am having trouble forgiving him for his A and particularly his 'beatings' on me while he was involved in similar behaviors.

Do you have any insight on how to forgive when they aren't remorseful?

I suppose this is really the first BS-type feeling I have felt since D-day #2. I'm angry that he doesn't take responsibility for his own behavior.....and that he blames his A on mine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Thanks for the post.

L.I.T.

I am a former WS, an ONS in 1980. I confessed in the first 6 months after, because the guilt was eating me alive. I am sure we never processed the healing that should have ensued at the time.

Fast forward to 2000. FWW became engaged in and EA with a former classmate of mine, spawned by her response to a message HE sent ME, by way of IM's. Turned into a full blown electronic EA. When I discovered it, I was devastated. All this pre-MB, we went through the W and things got back to "normal", and I had changed a lot of things in my behavior towards my spouse and marriage, but she never reconnected.

Fast forward again to 2002. The disconnect became chronic. All the classic symptoms of an A. I investigated and found it out. In the course of doing so, not only did I discover the current EA/PA, but also recorded a phone call from a man she had a very strong EA/slightly PA with BEFORE I had my ONS!!! Now this was a shocker, and put a lot of things in perspective for me.

I know I had many faults as my part of being a part of a marriage. As a result of this epiphany, I became very forgiving about the last A. One thing that bothered me a lot, however, is my FWW often referred that I was let off the hook "rather easily" for the ONS. I don't recall that being so, as it was thrown in my face 1,000 times over the years. Another big "bother" in all this, is that we never really discussed this other OM from BEFORE my ONS, because the issues with the current A were still so hot and tender.

These are some things we still need to discuss. I feel almost "abused" for all the "punishment" I received for the ONS, when she COULD have fessed up to her own EA at that time. This secret remained dark for over 20 years. The phone calls from the OM stayed in contact with her during all that time, with 3-4 calls in each year.

It's really hard not to feel pretty used by all of this information, and to know that even after I confessed, she CHOSE to keep her actions a secret.

Any thoughts?

SD

<small>[ February 26, 2005, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

L.I.T,
What I meant by "different" is only that, different time, different person, different circumstances. I was using quotes to say that we see our own behavior as justified by whatever circumstances we were experiencing but see no justification when we are the one hurt. We all excuse ourselves by saying, "Well, my situation was different." Yeah, because we were the one doing it rather than the one being hurt by it and the feelings are very different.

Ultimately, only total honesty will work for full recovery, but you can only be totally honest in a safe environment. Not one where our sins are worse than the other person's. I think this is the same thing you're trying to say.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I completely agree. Which is why I have to focus on why I chose to have the A (instead of a healthier alternative such as counseling or D). Now I also know it is important to realize how both my H and I contributed to the vulnerability of the M, but I cannot 'blame' or 'justify' my choice to have the A based on that. My choice was a weakness within myself that I am having to address.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, the only things we can change are our own attitudes and behaviors.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So true. And I suppose I am struggling with this part. I don't blame my H for the failure of the M. I realize we both took part in that. But I am having trouble forgiving him for his A and particularly his 'beatings' on me while he was involved in similar behaviors.

Do you have any insight on how to forgive when they aren't remorseful?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to remember that forgiveness is for me, not for him. Either I forgive or I walk around filled with resentment for ever. Forgiveness just means letting go of the need to be judge and jury in his life, and focusing on my own shortcomings - just like you are. Forgiving doesn't mean forgetting or allowing the person back into your life, if they're not remorseful, to do the same thing again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suppose this is really the first BS-type feeling I have felt since D-day #2. I'm angry that he doesn't take responsibility for his own behavior.....and that he blames his A on mine.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think it's reserved for BS's. Accepting responsibility for our own behavior no matter what the other person did or whether or not it was worse than what we did, and forgiving others for what they did that hurt us, are two very difficult lessons that both partners have to learn in if we are going to recover our marriages. But it goes for recovery in divorce, too. Unfortunately, it takes two to recover a marriage and we aren't all that lucky.

LIT,

Your question is a good one and IMHO, the answer is simple:

A couple can not practice 'radical honesty' if all the cards are not on the table.

The hard part is how, when and where to disclose this info. That will vary from situation to situation. Of course disclosing an old A while the new A with the other spouse is going on isn't the smart time.

Any disclosure could initially slow the recovery but if the reasons are genuine on both sides, recovery is attainable.

What amazes me here is to see peope ask for help but do not want to come clean with their spouses, yet they expect their spouses to come clean with them. What's up with that? Fear? C/b. Often the unknown is worse than reality. Being in the dark makes our imaginations run wild. The potential to make a situation worse than what it truly is could have more devasting effects than just being honest.

Honesty puts an end to the lies. The unknown just perpetuates it.

JMHO,
L.

L.I.T.
After the A was exposed because I called the woman's H, my H told me that he didn't tell me because, more or less, I wouldn't be hurt by what I didn't know.

During the A, I had major surgery, the only major surgery of my life, the only surgery other than getting out two impacted wisdom teeth when I was in college. The day after the surgery, my H called me and asked, "Do you want me to come visit?" I was very concerned that he was dealing with four small children at home and said, "No, no, if you're too busy, don't come." Those were my exact words. He didn't. When the A came out, I asked him about that day, and he said he had lunch with Sophia. He said, "I knew you'd be hurt that I didn't come visit you, but you weren't going to be hurt that I saw Sophia."

I think that's what's in the mind of a WS who doesn't confess. They think they are protecting their spouse from a lot of pain.

Yes -- and no. The BS has a right to know of the betrayal. The pain was not caused by the honesty but by the dishonesty of the affair.

Cherished

Oh LIT I hope my post isn't the one that triggered you. I truely appreciated your response to my post in the recovery section.

I'm sorry. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I guess I just need to figure my junk out by myself. Thanks so much for your input.

TG

This is a tough topic for me as well. I had the initial bout of anger when I first found out about my H's A, but I also felt like I deserved it in some ways.......a way of 'punishing' myself.

I will respond more later, as I am off to game night tonight (baked some chocolate covered cherry cookies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> mmmmmmmmmm).

I do appreciate the thoughts on this topic.

And, no T'sgal..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Your post was not the one that triggered me. And really it wasn't just one post. This topic comes up somewhat frequently here. I am just at a point in my recovery where this is something I need to work through.

Even if it did trigger me (which it didn't <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) you definitely shouldn't stop posting just because someone had a reaction. Particularly me!

For some reason, I feel a connection with you. Perhaps because of the similarity in our situations. There were a few posters a while back who took me under their wings. One in particular couple who my H and I had a particular connection to (JakeB, you know I'm talking about you and Recom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> PS - hope things are better). You will meet a lot of people who understand and will offer guidance. This is a special place with special people.

Keep coming back!

L.I.T.,

I've been writing over on D/D on the other thread, but just saw this one and thought I'd add a couple thoughts.

First, LetsTry summed up EXACTLY why I did not tell my XH about my past:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ultimately, only total honesty will work for full recovery, but you can only be totally honest in a safe environment.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For a number of reasons, I felt telling him would do more harm than keeping it to myself would, even though almost 10 years the guilt has been with me.

And then Orchid made another really important comment:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Of course disclosing an old A while the new A with the other spouse is going on isn't the smart time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And this was exactly what happened to me. One of my really, really bad secrets (of the 2 I have) was disclosed by someone I thought was a friend but was not, last spring, shortly after my now XH moved out of the house during his A. He is now using it as justification of why he didn't stop the DV. That's what he told my daughter last night when she stayed with him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

In my situation, both my XH and I had A's very early on in our marriage. I had an E/A (though I didn't know what an E/A was and just considered the guy a good friend and coworker) that turned into a one-night P/A when he was suddenly let go from our company for different reasons and I panicked--thinking I'd never see him again (THERE was the realization that I was relying too heavily on him) but I was dumb and slept with him that night.

And my husband found out, and he was angry, but he wanted to work it out. Then a year later he met the object of his first A, and had a very open, very sexual, in-my-face 20-month affair. And his response to it all was "YOU started it!"

And during our marriage, he repeatedly brought up what I did, but would also laugh about what he did. Years after his A, I was going through some stuff of ours from back then and found an old very graphic "love letter" from her to him that I'd taken from his car. I showed it to him (not sure why) and he took it and showed it off to his buddies at the shop.

So when his current affair started, and I sat in her place one night when I found him there, and they sat together on the sofa, and I asked him why he thought this was right...they both said,

"You were the one who started it. You had the first affair."

So no, I never felt comfortable telling him about the two incidents in the mid-90's, because I knew it would only be used against me, and I am not that person anymore. I have not done it again and I am VERY careful about any kind of association with men. I don't have any male friends--period. Easier that way. No trying to figure out what their motives are.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by L.I.T:
<strong>Please, if anyone has any ideas on this, please contribute. I mean no offense, but this is something I need to work through.....as apparently I hold quite a bit of resentment inside.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, if you follow the link in my sig, it will lead you to a story of a man who is called before his master to pay a debt.

The man cannot pay the debt, but the master forgives him and sets him free.

This man then comes along another man who is in debt to him. But he is not so lenient and does not forgive.

The original master finds out and condemns the first man to torture.

Clearly God feels strongly (as you do) about this kind of hypocrisy.

That being said, I'm not gonna be the one going around wagging the finger and condemning the guilty as I have been forgiven a few things myself.

That kind of helps me put things into perspective as a WS/BS, a poster here at MB and mostly just as a regular person.

I also find that it's difficult to find room for resentment within that perspective.

dewt

<small>[ February 26, 2005, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

LIT,

I will offer my take on your question. You feel strongly about this for several reasons.

1. You came here to rebuild your marriage, you learned here about radical honesty and you saw the effects of an A on BOTH sides of the marriage. Now that you are sensitized to this you realize deep secrets like this in a marriage POISON the marriage.

2. You have seen how denial of an A can hurt a person and the chances of a marriage recoverying.

3. You realize that dishonesty is NOT justified and often this dishonesty is used to excuse what you were NOT excused from and you know that will destroy a marriage.

In short LIT, YOU have grown and learned and because of this you are now much more sensitive to these situations than you were.

This is my take on why it bothers you so.

God Bless,

JL

Wow JL. As always, I am in constant amazement of how you can get to the heart of the matter in such a skillful manner. So direct with a learning curve you just can't miss. I read your response 3 times and loved it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just wanted to let you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm trying to explore why I feel so strongly about this. Is it because I feel it's hypocritical to 'punish' or 'bash' the WS when the BS has committed the same crime? Or is it just that I feel so strongly about honesty and addressing the reasons behind past actions....that I feel angry when only one person in the M is being honest? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LIT - JL gave you good insight into this area you area you are exploring. Let me just add a couple of things to add to your gruel to chew on;

1. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. (There is the "letter of the law" and there is the "spirit of the law")

2. Circumstances will OFTEN dictate the timing of actions. (Were it not so, there would be no "Plan A" stuffing of the true feelings or statements like "you can't 'educate' your spouse, especially while they are IN an affair)

3. In your righteous anger, do not also sin. (God is NOT saying "don't be angry about sin." God IS saying do not allow yourself to use that anger to "justify" sinning yourself in response.)

4. "Go, and leave your life of sin." (Jesus did NOT say "go and expose your sin to everyone connecte with each of your past affairs." He said STOP, stop sinning from THIS DAY FORWARD.)

5. So, is "Honesty is the best policy" ALWAYS correct and always required REGARDLESS of any circumstances? Not likely.

6. There is, in my humble opinion, a HUGE difference between a spouse who is "caught" in an active affair and one who has realized the error of their ways and recommitted to their spouse and set up their own STANDARD that they will NEVER again engage in adultery. To "confess" years after such a change and decision may be cathartic for the FWS, but sometimes for the FBS there is truth in the statement, "ignorance is bliss."

More later if you care to expand the discussion.

God bless.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by L.I.T:
As I read, I start to feel a certain resentment toward that particular BS.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please, do not!
That wouldn't be fair... - They were sincere at least here, to you/some of us... Vs. some other ones never admitting it 'even here', moreover, keep showing themselves as 'the saints'...

Nobody is perfect so isn't MB.
Take from MB that part which can help YOU, the rest just neglect...

Posted by LetSTry:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Forgiving doesn't mean forgetting or allowing the person back into your life, if they're not remorseful, to do the same thing again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand and agree with what you say here. So how does one 'let go' of the anger and hurt? Is it appropriate to carry it around for a while to process it?

We discussed forgiveness in my group counseling the other day. We defined it as "having someone do something hurtful to you, and then being able to find love for them again in spite of the hurt."

I have a difficult time with this concept because I do not truly love who my STBXH is today. I love who I think he can be. I love who he was. But a large part of the reason why we are divorcing is because we do not love each other in a healthy way, and he is not willing to work to change that love. That also goes for love being an action.....I am acting in a nice, courteous, and even possibly friendly way with STBXH......but not in a "loving" way that H and W should be.....

So how do you love someone again (to forgive) when you are in the process of leaving because you can't really love them anymore?

__________________________________________________________

Originally posted by Orchid:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Of course disclosing an old A while the new A with the other spouse is going on isn't the smart time.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this because it might provide (albeit false) justification for the WS to be with their OP?

I remember during my A actually wishing H would tell me that he was also in an A. Because then, perhaps, I would feel safer in disclosing my own A. And he might have been less judgmental and perhaps more willing to forgive my A. Oddly enough, it wouldn't have pushed me further into my A, but brought me closer to my H.

I understand in terms of abuse, violence, and need for safety......but I'm not completely grasping this concept. For instance if WS stays with OP regardless, then does the secret just die with the M? And how does that affect the BS? Wouldn't it impede their progress somewhat?

Thanks for helping with this......

______________________________________________________

Originally posted by Cherished:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The pain was not caused by the honesty but by the dishonesty of the affair.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Completely agree. And in my processing mind right now, I see that pain perpetuating the downfall of the M if the affair is never disclosed. Similar to the skeleton in the closet. Much like Shattered Dream's situation. His W has probably been carrying around these EA's with her, and without honesty, it has kept them intimately apart - disconnected.

The way I think about it is that radical honesty, and true love is trusting that your S will be able to handle the truth, process the truth, forgive the truth, and find love in spite of the mistakes........all that, of course, being that each person in the M is remorseful for their past transgressions, and radically honest from that point on......
_________________________________________________________

Originally posted by LL:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For a number of reasons, I felt telling him would do more harm than keeping it to myself would, even though almost 10 years the guilt has been with me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, do you think that carrying your guilt for so long possibly facilitated the decline of the M? Almost like a disease consuming from the inside out, yet you are not to tell anyone?

And now that the secret is out, do you feel free to address that side of you, and to work with it?

I'm really sorry your H told your daughter......incredibly inappropriate <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

______________________________________________________

Originally posted by Dewt:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That being said, I'm not gonna be the one going around wagging the finger and condemning the guilty as I have been forgiven a few things myself.

That kind of helps me put things into perspective as a WS/BS, a poster here at MB and mostly just as a regular person.

I also find that it's difficult to find room for resentment within that perspective.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I felt exactly as you did......until yesterday. And then I realized that I did indeed have resentment. I don't judge my H....that is not my job, that belongs to the man above. But I am resentful at the pain I feel, as well as the hypocrisy that he subjected me to.

Of course, this is why I am posting here.....to understand, perhaps, and to try to resolve this resentment so I can forgive.

I just figure that the resentment had to be hiding inside me somewhere.....and now is the time it decided to come to the surface. I feel like I need to treat this as a release of a toxic substance inside me. I just need to find the right pathway to let it out........

__________________________________________________________

JL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Thank you.....that means a lot coming from you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

_________________________________________________________

Originally posted by FH:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There is, in my humble opinion, a HUGE difference between a spouse who is "caught" in an active affair and one who has realized the error of their ways and recommitted to their spouse and set up their own STANDARD that they will NEVER again engage in adultery. To "confess" years after such a change and decision may be cathartic for the FWS, but sometimes for the FBS there is truth in the statement, "ignorance is bliss."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, I'm definitely on board with 1-5 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> but this #6 one is where I'm having some difficulty.

Even if the FWS realizes the error of their ways, and makes appropriate steps to behave and love differently - in a healthier way......can't the 'skeleton in the closet' create a rift between the H and W? And if the A was discovered sometime in the later future, won't the BS usually feel even more resentment and have more difficulty forgiving b/c of the years of deceit?

I ask this thinking of JakeB and Recom's situation. They were posters who were helping MJR and I back when we first started. And JakeB really had trouble processing Recom's A because even though she had realized the error of her A and ended it(consequently becoming a better W), his resentment was so strong because of her deceit in hiding it from him for 4 years before finally confessing.

We also see many BS here talk about a 'second blow' by finding out that the A their WS is involved in is not the only A.....that there was an A long ago in the M. All this does is cause more pain.

Finally, with regards to a FWS whose A was not exposed to the BS - but who completely changed (in a healthy way) their committment and actions in the M.......I cannot imagine that their own self guilt would allow them to be healthy in that relationship. It might cause them to be more giving , but I would imagine it would still remain as a mild form of disease for the M. An illness not quite having run its course.

_________________________________________________________

Originally posted by BtN:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Please, do not!
That wouldn't be fair... - They were sincere at least here, to you/some of us... Vs. some other ones never admitting it 'even here', moreover, keep showing themselves as 'the saints'...

Nobody is perfect so isn't MB.
Take from MB that part which can help YOU, the rest just neglect...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I realize this.....which is actually why I'm exploring it here. I hold no judgment toward the BS in this situation. But it does evoke strong emotions in me. And the only way I will be able to come to peace with that is to finish resolving this roadblock in my own recovery.

Again, I apologize if this offends anyone. I am merely trying to explore my own reaction to this topic.

I do feel very strongly about it. And in essence, I think that's good. I shows that I have made changes from the inside out, and that I am not just 'going through the motions.'

But having been a BS also, I do feel a large amount of resentment for my H not being honest with me about his own A. To me, it seemed a manipulative tactic to keep the upper hand. And in order for me to forgive him, I am going to have to work this out.....without his asking for forgiveness.

Sorry if you were offended. I don't intend for this to be a 'fair/unfair' judgment. Merely a discussion of radical honesty and the possible outcomes of the M if it is not practiced.....

_______________________________________________________

Thanks for the help, everyone. For some reason, this is a tough one for me to get past........

I really appreciate all the input! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

A couple comments:

In reference to telling a WS about an A when they are now in their own A:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is this because it might provide (albeit false) justification for the WS to be with their OP? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I truly DO believe that's what it has done for my XH. It has given him the final reason he needed for feeling comfortable DV me.

And...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, do you think that carrying your guilt for so long possibly facilitated the decline of the M? Almost like a disease consuming from the inside out, yet you are not to tell anyone? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think carrying the guilt hasn't been good. But I truly believe in my situation that telling my husband (unless I would have maybe told him the exact day it happened) might have been worse. Like I said, he never really let go of the first A. Things triggered him and he made hurtful comments throughout our marriage. It gave him justification for whatever he did in his life. So this would have, in my opinion, just given him more justification.

In hindsight, I probably should have gone to some type of therapy at the time to help me work through it better.

I don't believe it led to the decline of the M. I actually thought things were stabilizing somewhat during the latter years of our marriage, other than we had totally grown apart physically (his choice, not mine). I was begging him to go to MC with me to make things better, so that we were husband/wife and not just roommates.

Instead, I think MLC overtook him (he's turning 40 in a week), he happend upon a women who likes to be wild and part and drink, she was 26, and she showed interest. He left me (the woman who has changed from her teen years and no longer wants to party and drink and be 18 years old) because he found freedom from responsibility of being a husband and father.

I think his alcoholism (even when he was dry the last 2 years, because he resented me the whole time for "forcing" him to remain that way) had a big part in the breakdown of our M, not my harboring secrets, although it hasn't been healthy to me personally.

LL

LL,

Thank you for being so kind as to reply to my questions.

After reading your last post, I realize that your situation strikes a chord in me. I went to my first Al-Anon meeting yesterday. And in the Newcomers packet, there is a pamphlet called "Alcoholism, A Merry-Go-Round Named Denial". It talks about how the alcoholic justifies each of their own behaviors by placing blame on others.

It would seem that one thing we have in common are XH's who continually use other people's behaviors to justify their own. They don't take ownership or responsibility of their own actions.

Would I be right in interpreting that telling your H of your past indescretions would not have helped the M regardless. It appears to me that the alcoholism and his inability to own his behaviors preempted the decline of the M, anyway.

I hope that you seek the appropriate therapy for your past as well, LL. I read your other thread about counselors, and although I'm not certain that counselor is the right one for you....I can say that sometimes when you are challenged, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It means that you might be addressing a topic that you need to.

It took my counseling group months of challenging me to really stand up for what I wanted in the M. And I was extremely defensive at first. But the more I thought about it the more I realized they were right. I also bounced some ideas off here, and when they coincided, I learned to begin to trust my instincts again.

I think that's a consequence of being married to an alcoholic. We typically have given our will over to the alcoholic spouse - trying to please them, trying to avoid blame....etc. And we have to learn that we are responsible for our own happiness, and our own lives. Part of that is submitting our will to God (or the appropriate higher power, as the AA book says <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) instead of our alcoholic partner.

Al-Anon might be helpful for you. I've only been to one meeting, but I already got something from it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Thanks again, LL, for being so honest.

I'm with you on this (your original post) LIT.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that's a consequence of being married to an alcoholic. We typically have given our will over to the alcoholic spouse - trying to please them, trying to avoid blame....etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And ... bending our own values in order to keep the peace. That has been MY weakness.

BTDT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Al-Anon might be helpful for you. I've only been to one meeting, but I already got something from it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keep coming back it works if you work it!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Keep coming back it works if you work it! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm workin' on workin' it!

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: L.I.T ]</small>