I'm a WS putting in a lot of effort in the last couple weeks, and I could use some more advice.

I'll cross-post my Pregnancy forum topic here, if that's OK:

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So I've had a pretty rough few days, with what feels like a whole lot of developments.

After disclosing everything to our boss earlier this week (OW and I work together), discussing the need for drastic NC with OW, and considering our company's current needs and the structure of our department in particular, my boss offered to transfer me to Iowa or South Carolina. Given the needs of my kids who'd be left behind in Michigan, that doesn't feel like a practical solution. So the next solution, formally presented Friday, was that I will be downsized, with my responsibilities mainly rolled up into OW's job -- I won't be replaced. The fact is, either one of us could do all the work of these two jobs with a larger but still reasonable schedule at work. Because she is pregnant, she's not a legally viable choice to be downsized in this case, even though he clearly expressed that I have consistently showed more ambition, have ruffled many fewer feathers, and that her work I'd have to absorb is much less complicated and time intensive than my current duties, which she'll have to now learn without my help. I think he sees the problems with her and her more extreme behavior, and has asked me more than once, "is she stable?" He now knows she lied to everyone including him about the cancer last fall. He mentioned that he thought she may reconsider her "I'm never leaving" approach to the job when she sees just how much more work she'll now have to do, but she is very well compensated and I don't think she'll let that fat paycheck go. He's being very generous in terms of the transition period and wage continuation while I look for another job, and offered to write a glowing recommendation as well as work his network to see what other opportunities are out there.

I've got my name in with one great recruiter with a line on several good jobs, including one for which I've already been through the first round of interviewing and they expressed a lot of interest in me (with no other candidates at the moment). It's a great company, great people, great upward potential, and well compensated. The problem is it's over an hour away from here, and I'd likely have to move or rack up a whole lot of mileage on my stupid leased car. (Last lease ever, that's for sure!)

So all this takes shape with our first friend-of-the-court meeting Monday at 11 AM. My attorney is concerned about the negative spin the opposing counsel could put on all this, protraying it as an effort to avoid CS (which it DEFINITELY is not -- it's a downsizing based on my boss's determination to save money and end the soap opera which will achieve total NC, and I'm aggressively seeking new comparable employment). We were unable to reach my W's attorney Friday, and I was concerned about blind-siding my W Monday morning with this news as we sat down at the meeting. So I called her today to discuss transferring the kids (who stayed overnight with me last night) and asked if her attorney was coming to the meeting or if she'd talked to her, because there were some late-breaking developments. Of course, that didn't fly well, so I ended up telling her the news today. She took it OK, and flat out asked me if it was my idea or my boss's -- I told her it was his, which is true. She was concerned. She was very accomodating about the fact that my schedule and even my living arrangements could change a lot in the next several weeks, and would be flexible in terms of parenting time schedules.

Somehow, from there I told her about four days of NC now, and the fact that I was going to soon write a NC letter to OW that I wanted my W to read and mail herself at my expense, so she'd know it was really going to OW. I ended up going through my three-point list of reasons (as seen in the "baby on the way" thread) why I wanted to pursue JC with her. I told her I understood that this was only a few days of action and a whole lot of talk, but I wanted her to know what I've been up to in terms of all this and how seriously I take NC for my own well being, as well as a realization that it is the necessary first step in any potential reconciliation, and that OW has done nothing but make me more resolved to NC thanks to her flaky actions this week.

I didn't ask for an answer about JC any time soon, and said I'd have preferred to have talked about this in a month, when I'd have had more real action to bring to the table. But it all sort of came out today, and she left it very neutrally. I didn't get any sense of hope or optimism or anything from her. She acknowledged that NC was issue one... but that leads to issue two, three, four, five, etc. I said I understood that, but it has to start with a serious step, which I'm taking and committed to. I gushed about this site and forum, told her how insightful and helpful it's been for me, and again encouraged her to come by, because I believe Harley's way is definitely the approach I'd like to take and would hold myself to it to a T without exception.

So somehow this has left me pretty cold. Not less resolved, not less congnizent of the vulnerability I still have facing OW, but discouraged that she seemed so utterly underwhelmed. I felt like I poured out my heart to her as well as I could given the restraining order, and she simply listened politely and left it as "well, see you Monday." My W never said she didn't care, or wasn't open to this leading to JC. I guess I need to take on my rejection instinct head-on, and instead of imagining that she just doesn't care, that I've maybe given her a lot to think about.

I have some ideas about the NC letter based on Harley's Q&As, but I'd appreciate advice about that. And any feedback on what to do next, if I screwed this up somehow, and so on.
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One phone call, unanswered, from OW today. No message to delete, fortunately. I know she's aware of what's going on, because our boss has drastically altered her work arrangements for the next few weeks to ensure total NC.

I've ordered a new personal cell phone and will be returning this company phone as soon as it arrives, so hopefully by Tuesday she won't be able to call anymore. My goal is to have the NC letter completed by Wednesday night, to give it to my W when we exchange the kids after my parenting time.
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My story is spelled out in this lengthy thread in the Pregnancy forum, for anyone who's interested in how this has developed over the past two weeks. (I can't believe it's only been 14 days!)

Thanks, everyone.

<small>[ February 26, 2005, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Lost71 ]</small>

Lost, I've read all your threads. I am a BW. I think you are doing fine.
These things take time and patience. You are now finally on the right track in 14 days but you have to keep it up. If you break contact with OW you will be back in square one and will have made no progress in that number one issue for your wife.
Calm down now that you have a plan and work on it: NC, changing jobs, working on yourself, taking care of your children.

Try to get some exercise, it really does wonders.
Have you read everything on this website? have you bought the books?

Keep up the good work, but remember TIME and PATIENCE are very important now.
My WH is in the middle of the A right now. So time and patience are what I need too, waiting for the A to end. Much harder.

Good luck.

Hi lost,

I think you are doing well also.Remember,you have failed your W before so her believing you now is not going to go smoothly at all.Nothing does more damage,in my opinion,then repeated contact after NC was supposed to be in place.Trust is obliterated over and over and any headway you might have made,the delicate strands of rebuilding trust,are torn away.

But,if you keep up on this path,even though your feelings will change,you will be ok.Even as a BW,I stuck to my plan even though my emotions were changing multiple times a day.I had to ride it out until I felt better,and I have done so.If your WW is anything like me,she is watching your *actions* with a magnifying glass.Waiting to see if you will let her down again and be weak.Don't be.

Try not to feel rejected but look at it as this being a normal reaction from your WW regarding your past behavior.You have an opportunity here to make THIS NC the one that lasts.Stay strong!

O

P.S. I am glad you are looking at another job and getting a new cell phone.Good steps in the right direction.

Lost, I can understand where your W is coming from. You haven't really ended contact with the OW at all. You still work with her. Four days is nothing but a fart in the wind. This has been going on for months and your W has been dragged through hell. Many BS would not tolerate ANY contact whatsoever past D-Day, much less impregnating your honey.

Post D-Day contact of ANY sort would be a deal buster for me. And maybe it is for your W; that is certainly her perogative.

Your W is exactly right to move forward with her life until you have really, I mean really, demonstrated that contact is ended. She shouldn't even consider discussing reconciliation until no contact has been demonstrated for months. If even then. If it were me, I would be moving on to better things.

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

When is your last day at work?

I hear you, MelodyLane. I really do understand where my W is coming from, as well as I can without having it happen to me. It's just hard to face. I feel like any sign of hope would go so far with me right now, but I can't be looking to her for that. I'm doing this now because it's right for me whether or not my W ever wants to try to reconcile.

My last day at work will be sometime in April, but it has already been structured so that I will never again work with her. A schedule has been finalized that has her working at home when I'm in the office, and has me working at a different facility (in a different town) when she is in the office.

Hi cc, thanks for responding.

Time and patience. Impatience and impulse control and rushing to "fix" everything for myself are all problems I have, problems that to some degree contributed to the A in the first place. For this to be a new improved me, both my W and I need to see me handle all of this waiting and pain and loneliness differently than I ever have before.

I feel for you in your situation. My W was where you are last summer. It was her amazing patience and love demonstrated over that time that helped draw me back, though of course I did fail again. I pray your efforts will be steady and your marriage will be saved. Thanks again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Isn't your W's condition that you end all contact? I would consider working at the same company to qualify as contact. The risk is still great as long as you work at the same company. Talking about future no contact is meaningless. I would suggest this is how your W will look at it, as she should.

She shouldn't accept anything less than absolute no contact so I wouldn't get my hopes up until you have left that company and can demonstrate absolute no contact over a period of time. Until that happens, she shouldn't even consider anything short of moving on.

I am sorry I can't give you any hope, but I see nothing about which to be hopeful here, and I suspect she won't either. What you have offered here would not give me any hope or motivate me in any manner to change my course of action. It's a start, but not enough, Lost.

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

You're right, O.

Four days into NC, I feel as resolved as ever. Withdrawal pops up here and there, but fortunately (!) OW has done enough freaky stuff lately to pretty easily bring me back to reality and out of my "magical thinking" in the fog. And with NC, there's no opportunity for her to "undo" the freaky behavior, like there was last fall when we were still working next to each other every day.

When she found out about the relapse, my W said almost exactly what you did. This time was immeasurably worse than the first A, because she had put her trust and heart in my hands again. I tend to have a typical "male" memory about lots of things, but there are conversations we had when the A had restarted, offering trust when I knew I was already breaking it, that literally haunt me and make me just ache about what I've done to her.

I do hear you MelodyLane. Having been through a failed attempt at boundaries and rules etc. at work last fall, all I can say is (1) this is an order of magnitude more separate than that was and (2) it is going to be short-lived. With all my work responsibilities to transition (I do most of the work around there, heh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), I don't see a way to do this faster. Especially since, without another job in my pocket, I want to be able to maintain my current level of support for my kids as long as possible, so long as my boss is able to ensure OW and I are never in the same location. To be clear, after a couple weeks my schedule will start to be drastically reduced, too.

That being said, it may well be that all this adds up to almost nothing to my W until I'm officially out of that job. Again, I just have to let the calendar flip a page or two. Though it's hard because I know how different this is, I don't hold her lack of trust against her at all, and I appreciate your feedback. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Lost71 ]</small>

Lost,
patience and time also mean that when you are able to tell your W that you have had NC for 3 months it will maybe make a difference. Whatever happens with your wife, I think that you are better off without OW and her problems. Of course there is the OC to consider but unless before he/she is born you are able to talk to your wife about it, the decision to contact OC or not is yours. And what you do from this moment until OC is born will make a huge difference. The sooner you can quit your job the better it will be for you and for your W.

Keep up the good work and soon it will have been a month, and then 2. And you will really be on your way to recovery, at least your own recovery which is the only thing that YOU can control.
Patience.

I think you need to not be advisor to yours and her boss about her stability...

I think he sees the problems with her and her more extreme behavior, and has asked me more than once, "is she stable?" He now knows she lied to everyone including him about the cancer last fall. He mentioned that he thought she may reconsider her "I'm never leaving" approach to the job when she sees just how much more work she'll now have to do, but she is very well compensated and I don't think she'll let that fat paycheck go. He's being very generous in terms of the transition period and wage continuation while I look for another job, and offered to write a glowing recommendation as well as work his network to see what other opportunities are out there.

You walk a fine fine line in setting yourself and your boss up for lawsuits from the OW...

your boss has no busniness using you as a litmus as her stability...
you nor her are star employees based on your behaviors...and both are equal in poor job done...

anytime your boss asks you to critiique her you would be most wise to plead the fifth..for those words may haunt you once again...
limit conversations with your boss about her...

My attorney is concerned about the negative spin the opposing counsel could put on all this, protraying it as an effort to avoid CS (which it DEFINITELY is not -- it's a downsizing based on my boss's determination to save money and end the soap opera which will achieve total NC,

I hope that you seek to offer financial assistance to your child to be based on your paycheck..prior to your "plan" to downsize...the child does not deserve punishment based on your actions....

ARK

Your points are well taken ARK. The context of his asking about her was mainly in light of his own observation unrelated to our situation, and it was strictly opinions all around. I have told him very little, and in fact I do not want to see her terminated. And in any case, he's smart enough to take anything either one of us say with a grain of salt. Believe me, I'm well aware our boss already has more than enough grounds to terminate either or both of us outright, and has since last summer.

Given the large amount of marital debt we will have to divide, there's simply no way I could afford to make the same payments as before this downsizing without finding comparable work and salary, which I am whole-heartedly seeking to do as soon as possible. On unemployment alone, I would already be living hand-to-mouth and that's in my current temporary no-rent arrangement with my sister. A batch of resumes went out already today, I'm signing up with more recruiters, and I have several other promising opportunities lining up in the next couple weeks. The last thing I want is for this to affect our children's standard of living in any way.