Well we have been bumping along, WH broke NC once already, at the "magical" one week mark! Says he was doing it for me?! Says he was trying to protect me...yep, I feel all warm and fuzzy and protected....

Well I waiver between completely just throwing in the towel and trying to make it work. Had a decent weekend... took the kids to a hockey game, even let him hold my hand... except today WH has been moody and somewhat withdrawn... we did go to church this am as a family, that was nice. Girls and I spent the day togehter doing "girly" things... nails, ears peirced, etc...

Today WH calls on the way to his Mom's (it is her b-day) and says he read some of my journal... and he "hopes I don't mind" ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> But he has some questions.... what a dork!!! I explained that alot of those things I wrote cause I may have been angry or sad at the time, I also use my journal to write about Bible passages and studying my books... the one part he had questions about was where I was looking to list all that he has "done" to me and for what I was going to have to let go so that I may move forawrd... I must acknowledge them to forgive and be forgiven... he said he was sorry for all those things but how could I ever forgive him??? I told him he needed to let me and God worry about that! He alsosaid that he read thenice things I wrote about him and he appreciated them... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I asked him if this is where he gives up and walks away cause he doesn't believe I will ever be able to forgive him? He says no, not at all, but how can I ever forgive him all that? That I must be a better person than him... uh, yes... yes I am! DUH!

Also, yesterday it came out that he had a cell phone from OW that DS11 saw and questioned about, of course he lied at the time, but came clean when I asked. He says he gave it back to her already... He later (w much prompting) explained to DD13 and DS11 what it was and who it belonged to... I should not have to defend or explain his actions to them... Do you suppose he has possibly learned something here?! Nah... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Anyone else had to deal with this? I would have willingly shared if he had asked, but the fact he didn't ask is what upsets me terribly!!! How would he feel if I did that to him?

Hi Tx-Rn,

Today I was writing in my journal and my WS looked at me funny and asked me what I was doing.
He knew. I said I was just catching things up.

I asked him if he's read it. He said some of it but not all. I've noticed that it's been placed a little differently than it was left sometimes, indicating to me that he took a peek.

This really angers me too! I don't keep it right out in the open. I've hid it in my drawer, in my closet and buried it at the bottom of my book bag, so I know he had to go searching for it.
My H is the type who normally wouldn't read these things. I remember when we were dating 15 years ago and broke up. I wrote him a letter after HE broke up with ME. Later I found out it sat on his dresser for 6 weeks before he read it!! Can you believe that???
That made me so mad! In all the years I've known him he has been that way.
Now to find out that he has read my journal really surprises me! It's just not like him!
I also found out he knows my screen name here and reads my posts too. At first, I didn't mind, but now I'm thinking of changing my screen name. He doesn't know I've moved over to the recovery board though, so he looks on the General board.

So, I guess my point is that it doesn't matter what he does-- I still get mad. I want my privacy but yet I guess if he reads my stuff, then he will get the raw truth right and not be left to guess like I have to do with him.

The journal had some really personal stuff -- feelings I was feeling at the moment, not necessarily how I feel on a daily basis. He has probably misunderstood a lot of it, I think.

Anyway, just my two cents. I have been a major snoop in my WH's life with all the suspicion I've had in finding out about his A. So he knows how yucky it feels to have your privacy invaded. Guess now I know too. It's just that I really don't have too much to hide.

wow, our dates are very close!

yes, I agree, I have snooped alot... hacked into all his emails (well, knew three of four passwords so only hacked the 4th "secret" account... but he readily offered up the password to that one... so, ok) Even hacked into OW's email...

Still, as the BS I feel there are certain rights I have that WH has forfeited...is it right? Probably not, but I still think he should have asked! I started a journal 18 yrs ago the night I met WH...always shared them all w him. I really would not have minded if he had just asked... that would have been all I needed. Ask me and let me share it with you. Don't just assume.

Tx-RN -

Yes, you have a right to check his email, especially if you thing your marriage is in jeopardy. I did that and made my wife so mad she's never forgiven me.

Instead, she made photcopies of my entire journal and handed them out to friends. I'd keep that thing with you if I were you. He may find out some truths about himself, but if he's anything like my WW, he's in he 'fog' and can't accept them anyway - is probably more certain you are certifiable <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

David

Yes, David, I actually thought of you when I first heard WH ask me about it! Isn't that funny?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

There is more in there that would embarass him then me, plus he really does not have very many friends... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I will keep a better eye on it though... guess it didn't occur to me that the trust betrayal would go that far!

Tx-RN,

Sorry. I have to disagree with tpete on this one. You have only one right. That is the right to leave the marriage because of the affair.

Everything else is an expectation, and sadly they do not always get met.

You have to decide what you are willing to suffer to save the marriage. It usually takes time for a marriage to get sour. It is thus reasonable to infer that it will take time for it to restore. And it may not. Mine didn't.

Your WS saw your journal. Your innermost thoughts. In a healthy marriage, there should be no surprises in such a situation. But if it was healthy, you would not be here, would you? (No BLAME meant by that, just a statement of fact.)

How do you deal with it? Easy. How do you deal with anything? You be the best you that you can be. You make choices that you can live with. You can ALWAYS take a break from every person you are in a relationship with, EXCEPT yourself.

Your situation (WH knowledge of what you put in your journal) may be embarassing, or troublesome, or even tiresome. You cannot change those facts now.

I feel as if I am starting to be a broken record. Here is what you need to do.

1) SERVE your marriage. You have kids involved. If you make a choice that does not edify or strengthen your marriage, it is a BAD choice. Don't make those.

2) SET your boundaries. Don't become a whipping girl. You are a person that has feelings. But feelings are messy. They smear what is usually a clearly defined lines. Work diligently to draw those lines. Make sure they are reasonable, fair, and serve the marriage given the situation at hand. Then your boundaries will serve you when you need them.

It will all depend on how much compassion and understanding you have toward the WH. A while ago there was a popular mantra on the board. It was "Be a welcome mat, not a door mat." Remember that. You need to identify the amount of abuse you are willing to suffer, because it is coming. You are married to a maniac who has lost sight of reality. He may or may not get it back. You are the "sane" one and will have to be the strength, the backbone of the family for a time. And it sucks and it isn't fair. But it IS.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I asked him if this is where he gives up and walks away cause he doesn't believe I will ever be able to forgive him? He says no, not at all, but how can I ever forgive him all that? That I must be a better person than him... uh, yes... yes I am! DUH! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can forgive him with God's help and a sense that the greater good, the strength of the family, will be served by the forgiveness. As to the second part, NO you ARE NOT. You have only made better choices. The minute you start thinking you are "above" a bad choice is when you will make one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyone else had to deal with this? I would have willingly shared if he had asked, but the fact he didn't ask is what upsets me terribly!!! How would he feel if I did that to him?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. I have had to deal with this. My WW would read my posts and read me the riot act when I was venting. As to the next part, so he didn't ask? So what? It was rude and inconsiderate, agreed. But you said yourself that the information itself was something you would share. What harm is REALLY done (other than a wound to your pride). By all means, call him to the mat on it. But tell him WHY it hurt you, then drop it. Don't let this plant a seed of bitterness. The amount of crud the FS has to forgive is daunting. Don't lose the game on a small issue. You must remember that if you EXPECT him to be reasonable, you will be let down. It will take some time for him to return to sanity.

How would he feel if you did it to him? It would help convince him he was better off with the OW. That is what part of him WANTS right now. That is how the hurt child inside will try to justify what he has done. Does that make sense? HECK NO. It is a stupid attempt at justification. But you knew this, didn't you? So I would then ask, why ask such a destructive question? How would if feel if you did it to him? Moot point. He is in fogland, you will drive yourself nuts with those questions because they will NOT make sense. For your own sake, don't dwell on them.

That is why you Plan A. To SHOW him through extreme acts of mercy and kindness that you always were the better choice. Plan A is the carrot. Do it as long as you can stand. THEN Plan B. Plan B is the stick, it is there to protect YOU.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well I waiver between completely just throwing in the towel and trying to make it work. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Take heart. You are not the only one. Sometimes it feels like you are a big screw up when you read on this board. You second guess. Why couldn't I have done it like (fill in the blank)?

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to face. What helps with the waivering is clearly identify what your "deal breakers" are. And you will surprise yourself with the strength that you actually have.

My attempts to recover have failed. But in the end, I am calling this a success. Why? Because at this point in my life, I REALLY KNOW who I am. More so than at any other.

Do your best. That is all that is required. If you do that, you will be able to respect yourself and your children will respect you.

Look at Harley's four rules to a successful marriage. They are succinct and to the point. Gently push the WS in that direction, but don't expect much. At the end of the day, your success or failure will be an exercise in YOUR patience.

NCWalker

Tx-RN,

Hi. Look. I just read my post to you again. Please don't take me the wrong way. I tend to be to the point and sometimes struggle with compassion.

I have been there. Most of us have. And when you are in it, it feels like there is no pain greater and YOURS is the worst. And sometimes you just need some compassion because it hurts.

I would only say two things, which are probably of small comfort.

1) Recovered marriage or not, every FS I have seen SURVIVES it. Stands to reason you will too.

2) Recovered marriage or not, every FS I have seen comes out the back side a better person. Stands to reason you will too.

So it really sucks. Go ahead and hit us with your pain. But you will make it, and you will be a better person for it.

You are in my prayers,

NCWalker

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Tx-RN:
<strong> Well we have been bumping along, WH broke NC once already, at the "magical" one week mark! Says he was doing it for me?! Says he was trying to protect me...yep, I feel all warm and fuzzy and protected....

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yikes. Tx-RN (I like the name by the way), I must say you are one tough woman to take getting your heart sliced into time and time again and willingly coming back for more. I suspect either you have no self esteem and don't realize how incredibly dysfunctional it is to continue accepting this behavior........OR you are just a strong woman who has a "plan" to rescue her husband from his addictions. I hope it is the latter.

How many false recoveries have you had now with your WH? I suspect there will come a time when you **may** need to change your plan.

I know you want to "recover" yuur marriage, but how do you rationalize to yourself all of the coninued lies and false recoveries? I guess I am just confused for you. I know that in your heart you believe that none of this is your husband and it is all just an "alien", but do your kids know this? What do your friends say? Your family? YOur support network?

I hope you find the recovery path with your wayward husband, but it sure seems like he is playing you for the fool. I may be wrong. Perhaps I am reading the situation wrong.

Best wishes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LM

A few weeks ago my wh had a sudden change in attitude and then finally confess reading my diary. Could not understand how I can forgive him! Sounds so familiar. I tried to explain that depending on the mood the meanings changed and not to take it personal. He said that what I had in there was the real way I saw things. Whatever! You can not argue with someone in fog that deep. It is sad but now I have to think what I write in there as to if he was going to read it again so my vents are not truly vents anymore from my heart.

NC: first, yes, you seemed a bit firm, but that is ok... my skin gets thicker by the day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I know, intuitively, that I will recover... with or without him. I am the sane ne, I am the strong one, and each time God blessed me with a child I was forever sealed that I had to be a parent... consistent, stedfast and ever seeking to do right bt them even if it is he hardest thing I will ever do!

My H is not a monster, he is not evil and he is a very good father... my WH is not... What amazes me, is I have often told him it is like being around 2 different people... he siad "no, it's all me, and you will have to accept that" (fog & babble, I know!) Well after he read my journal he said he now sees those 2 different people, that I was right... and he doesn't like the other one (WH)!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> OMG could there be a clearing in the dense fog?! Not getting my hopes up, been burned too much.

How much am I willing to tolerate? Guess I am not there yet cause I am still here. I will not tolerate "sharing" MY H... I will not be a choice or just another option on his list... that I have already made a stand on. I picked up and left him, and when DD4 got sick I came home and made him move out... he is still out.

I also know that I am precariously close to that imaginary line where it is "too much" and I can do no more... I know this cause I often feel a sense of indifference to the man I have loved since I was 15 yrs old. That scares me, think it scared him too cause when I shared this he has been much more active at trying to grow and recover... wish I felt the same.

I do have self-esteem issues, but am also a very strong person. I do believe there are many who have suffered less and lsot it... not to say I have it all together, but I am still here plugging along. I still have faith the God will pull me through if I would let Him. I do not let me Mom walk all over me, I am not laying down as a doormat to H and I am not letting my children go nuts just cause there life is rough... I make some allowances, and we talk ALOT, but I will not accept bad behavior either.... my kids were never brats and aren't gonna start now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How would he feel if I did that to him?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tx-RN, probably about the same way we all "feel" about snooping.

Sometimes it IS necessary, though.

Remember that if YOUR goal is to have no secrets in your marriage, your journal is "open" to your husband and "closed" to everyone else.

If you don't want him to read it for whatever reason, then don't leave it around where it CAN be read. Otherwise you are leaving a trail similar to a WS who leaves "clues" so they can be "discovered."

God bless.

Well I am at work, so if I end abrubtly it is nothing personal! I wanted to respond to others.

Lemonman: Hmmm, false recoveries... well not sure if the recovery from last A can be truly a recovery cause we ended up back here again, but at the time it sure felt real. He has even siad in MC that he meant it when he said he was sorry and would never do it again, this is cause he did believe that at the time but obviously something changed.

This time, a few false starts... I trult felt foolish when I allowed him to move home to have back surgery, really wanting to believe that he was remorseful and wanted to make it right! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I felt so used and abused when I realized he was still in active contact w OW, no physical contact, but still contact!!! Idiot!
This is where I drew the line, told him I was done... think he panicked then. I have not been the same toward him since.

FH: No, you are right, no secrets... I mean that too, but wouldn't common courtesy dictate conversation about this before the fact? I truly see him trying to be more Godly a man, I see him taking those

...sorry, got busy!

Anyway, I see that there is some effort on his part to be "the man that God wants him to be"... I have hit the point of feeling so indifferent, mostly due to pure and utter exhaustion... I served notice to my employer today... almost 4 yrs here, it is hard walking away from this although it is what I want. I have not felt respected here for awhile.... still, sorta sad...

I am bout at the end of my rope... why does it have to be so hard?

...sorry, got busy!

Anyway, I see that there is some effort on his part to be "the man that God wants him to be"... I have hit the point of feeling so indifferent, mostly due to pure and utter exhaustion... I served notice to my employer today... almost 4 yrs here, it is hard walking away from this although it is what I want. I have not felt respected here for awhile.... still, sorta sad...

I am bout at the end of my rope... why does it have to be so hard?