Hi. I don't know if you know Faithful Follower or her story. Can you look here?

thanks.

p.s. we are doing ok. this really is a long process, so far we are both still hanging on.

Thank you, FL. You are a good friend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

you are welcome FF. you have been on my mind all day today. i hope you are doing ok. i'll try to keep in touch with the boards. H is out of town for two days

FL,

I just got a chance to post. I have not really been keeping up with much of anything on this site, just sort of looking at it when I can. So first how are you and H doing? Are you feeling better about your honesty to him? Are you starting to see any changes in things yet?

FF, I am not sure I have time to read your whole thread, but I would be glad to answer questions if you have some. Perhaps here would be good so as not to distract from the conversation going on in your thread. I would need a quick update on the past and where you are right now.

I'll do my best.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL,

I have not been able to keep up with the board much lately, and perhaps it's for the best. my main concentration needs to be on my marriage, although my heart aches for everyone here and i wish i could help so much more than i am able to.

unfortunately work is extremely hectic too.

you only asked 3 little questions although i have been pondering them for about 1 1/2 hours now...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So first how are you and H doing? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We have our good and bad times but we are more real with each other than we have been in a very long time, maybe for the first time in our relationship. i suppose i should say i am being more real than i ever have been. maybe he always was but since i was not, it just didn't work.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are you feeling better about your honesty to him? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. Being honest with him was absolutely the best decision i have ever made in my life.

and now here is where i start to choke up and this is why it took me 1 1/2 hours to respond.

How can i really ever feel good about myself? i do on somedays, when i am not thinking about it so much. but when i think about it, i just feel very sick about me. i really don't know how to move past that. just as i know he doubts he will ever really be able to forgive me, i guess i doubt i will ever forgive myself too. i know i should, i know i need to, but it's very hard and that sick feeling really is always there, just under the surface. sometimes it's harder, like right now, since i am typing this. sometimes i can give myself a break and just enjoy life as it is now. but it always comes back.

i am still not having much success with weight loss, and i know that is the key. when i feel sick inside, i eat too much so that i my stomach at least then has a reason to feel sick.

tonight has not been a great night in that area. H is out of town. He will be travelling a lot in the next few weeks. It was during these trips (he has the same types of trip this time of the year every year) when i first started my chatting habit. i absolutely hate it. i hate that i ever went into a chat room. and then i feel like a major phoney cuz, who am i kidding? my poor choices did not begin because of the internet stuff. i cheated on him before we were even married and then 5 yrs into the marriage. i've really been a lousy person <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

ok, not meaning to depress you. remember, you asked.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are you starting to see any changes in things yet? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">this one is easier to answer. yes. i am changing my way of reacting to him and that is certainly having an impact on us. i am working hard on having old bad habits DIE!!! the biggest one is to stop quickly feeling hurt at every possible moment. because when i feel justified to feeling hurt, i then feel justified to withdrawal and that is NOT good for a marriage.

for as bad as i feel about who i have been most of my life. i am proud of all the work i have done over the past year.

right now, unfortunately, i think the bad feelings are over shadowing the proud feelings more often than not. but at least sometimes i let the proud feelings be felt.

how much i would love to hear H say to me at some point how proud he is of me for getting my life on track.

i suppose the trick is to be able to say it to myself, and have me saying it be just as significant to me as i feel hearing my H say it would be.

so there are the long answer to your short 3 questions.

JL, have i ever told you how much i appreciate your role in my life (ok, i am trying to be funny cuz i do know i have said that many times) i just cannot help saying it everytime, and everytime it chokes me up. i am extremely grateful but i also feel so unworthy of all the support found here and even more so unworthy of God's grace. and i would have to guess that even if my H told me everyday that he forgave me, i would still be struggling with true and long-lasting self-forgivness.

Hey FL - Good to hear your update... I hope things have been going well for you and your H and that you aren't working such long hours...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> just as i know he doubts he will ever really be able to forgive me, i guess i doubt i will ever forgive myself too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FL, please read what you wrote... you are thinking for your H... remember, you may "feel" this way, but look at your H's actions... he's still there with you... He's working on forgiving you... Don't retreat back into the comfortable feeling of unworthyness.

You are worthy of your H's love. Accept it. He is with you right now... He hasn't left you. I'm sure your feelings are very real to you, but you need to start allowing yourself to start feeling the good feelings too...

Semper Fi,
RIF

Hi RIF,

always nice to hear from you.

regarding, thinking for my H. I am not making an assumption, he has told me that very thing. However you are right, his actions are also telling me that he is working hard to stay together.

regarding allowing myself to feel the good feelings. sometimes i do. but you are also right in saying i fall back into feeling unworthy. HOWEVER, i seriously believe i am NOT retreating into those feelings. I really believe I am doing a good job at NOT withdrawing when i start to feel hurt.

ok, as i typed those last words i realized i am mixing my feelings. i am doing a good job not retreating when i feel hurt about something. but that is different than when i get to feeling unworthy. when i am feeling unworthy, i have not been retreating but i do get overcome with sad feelings, usually that at those times, i tell my H i just need to be held. at least that is what i do when those feelings get very strong. problem is, in a subtle way i do think i am always telling myself i am not really worthy. not a good thing to be constantly telling oneself.

i don't know how to not conclude that though!!!!

H has told me on several occasions that looking at all the times i have cheated, he can only conclude that i have never loved him. and i tell him that is an unfair conclusion. but that does not help him conclude otherwise.

i can tell myself it is unfair of me to conclude i am unworthy. but how do i really believe it??

seeing what you are doing is the first step to changing what you are doing.

this has helped me see that what i am doing is telling myself i am unworthy. now i can actively work on changing that message.

right??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning-T2M:
<strong> H has told me on several occasions that looking at all the times i have cheated, he can only conclude that i have never loved him. and i tell him that is an unfair conclusion. but that does not help him conclude otherwise.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey FL - For me as a 'guy'... I'd have to say that my W's A's made me feel VERY un-loved. Her actions were very un-loving... so I can definitely understand how he would feel that he was 'never' loved.

Now, having said that... one of the things that our MC told us to do was to stay away from the words "NEVER" and "ALWAYS"... so, I think that if you could accept your H's words to you while disregaring the "NEVER" ... then you may be able to better understand his point of view.

FL, yes, the actions of the past were hurtful and un-loving to your H... but you don't have to keep repeating those same actions... Don't let your PAST ACTIONS define who you are. It's what your PRESENT ACTIONS are today that are defining who you are...

Allow your H to express his pain over your past actions without challenging him... and then hold your head up high because your present actions ARE worthy of his love and dedication as evidenced by his continued desire to work on rebuilding the M with you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Semper Fi,
RIF

that is a very good suggestion RIF. thanks!

i do agree those actions were VERY un-loving. The thing is i do believe that a also did a log f loving things in our 22 year relationship too. seems unfair to say none of that counts. that is what i try to tell him. is that ok to say?

i suppose your suggestion is to not have to say it to him but to know myself that when he says "never loved him", i should understand he is talking about how he feels when he looks at those actions. maybe at those times i should not say anything but accept what he is saying and then at a later date try to get the message to him that there were a lot of times i did act very loving to him and those times should count for something too?

i really wish we were in MC!!!!

Hi FL!!!!! Good to see ya!

I also struggle with feelings of unworthiness. I NOW know they come from inside myself. Prior to the A, though, I can tell you that RH could do a million loving wonderful things, but even ONE unloving action would have negated all the loving ones in one fell swoop. It seems to be a human tendency to believe the negatives over the positives. Do we think that's being humble? I don't know! All I'm saying is that MAYBE your H struggles with feelings of unworthiness, too....not necessarily as a result of your A's...they just compounded it for him.

If you were to try to get him to see the loving actions you hadtoward him in the past, I doubt he would see them as such. Like I said, the negatives tend to negate the positives.(I'm not saying that they should!) All you can do is be loving NOW, as consistently and as often as you can!
I have also known people that would not accept loving action as loving....they were always suspicious of ulterior motives and such. You can't force someone to accept your love. And the reasons they don't are not your fault. KWIM?

Just my two cents.


NOW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have also known people that would not accept loving action as loving....they were always suspicious of ulterior motives and such </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There I go quoting myself again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />


Just wanted to add that I was one of those people. I had a hard time accepting love. Still do....something I have to work on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


NOW

Hey FL - Of course your 22 years of M have many good memories and events... but right now, your H is dealing with the pain and anger and hurt from the A's...

So when he is honest enough to tell you how he feels, try not to discount his feelings by trying to get him to admit the "good" things that happened in your 22 years of M.

He hasn't forgotten the good memories, but right now, all of those good memories are overshadowed by his pain from the A's... Help him deal with this by recognizing HIS pain right now... let him know that you are sorry for your past actions... and then let your present actions SHOW him that you are still worthy of his love and eventually his trust...

Semper Fi,
RIF

thanks both of you.

rif, i will keep your words in mind for the future.

i must admit, part of me is thinking... he makes it sound so simple!! but i know you realize it is not simple.

Hey FL - How are you doing this evening?

good timing RIF. i am about to go to bed, i did not have to work this evening. i have the late shift tommorow night instead. i have the start of a cold, just took some medicine, hopefully it will knock me out for the night and knock the cold out at the same time.

the good timing is due to the fact that i was debating about starting a new post titled, sometimes i just don't care!!!! H came home from a one night business trip this evening. i tried to respectfully and politely tell him my thoughts and feelings about something that happened shortly before he left. i did not want to do it then cuz he was about to leave town, figured it could wait. it didn't go over all that great. it had to do with his view vrs my view on how i have changed to listening to a christian music radio station and more specifically asking him to not be so obvious in front of the kids about his neg view on the station. i also said i feel insignificant in the sense that although i have told him how listening to this new station has been significant to me, he has made it clear he thinks it is lame. he does not think the specific event i was referring to was sending the kids any message about his view of that station. and he said i incorrectly concluded that he feels it is lame, (i agree that conclusion was a DJ on my part) although he certainly admitted that he does not in fact like that station, he does not think religion belongs on the radio, or on the tv for that matter, it only belongs in church. it is meant to be personal. i can accept i should not have concluded he was saying it was lame. but i still say the comment he made in front of the kids sent the message that he does not like the station. as it is a station that #1, their mom likes and #2 plays religious music (contemporary religious music), I don't see why I was wrong asking him to in the future not say anything neg about that station in front of the kids.

i'm heading off to bed now. he is downstairs having some scotch. doesn't seem like he is going to come upstairs as quickly as he said he was going to. guess it doesn't really matter, i need my rest so i can fight this cold anyway. i hate going to bed before him though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

tommorow night i will get home late from work and he will no doubt be in bed as he leaves early thurs morning for a 4 day golf trip with the neighbor. this was our only chance this week to see each other. what a waste.

sorry this post was not a bit more upbeat.

Hey FL - Hope you get to feeling better...

morning, slept good but cold is not cooperating. i really don't have time to be sick right now!!

so, you didn't comment at all about what i wrote. is this because you don't want to comment seeing as you only have one perspective (i.e. mine) and not H's. or because you have no thoughts? or??

i was kinda hoping you would help me see things in a more positive way!!

FL, I think it is important that you realize you have made so much progress...you did not conflict avoid! Doesn't really matter the topic the fact is you faced it and even though you DJ'd a bit everyone does now and then. You stood up and said I matter, this matters to me and you felt disrespected. I think for me since my H learned of my A I had trouble being forthright about my own feelings for a while because I had caused him so much pain I had lost my "right" to express my needs, feelings etc. You are doing great, you really are.