OK, I know you are all about tired of me, so let me apologize in advance! My life has been a whirlwind lately, and it is not just the A!! GEEZ!!!

I have several quetions that I know I have asked before, but haven't had real clear answers on:

Isn't Plan A just to encourage the WS to end the A? If so, now that I am 90% certain NC has been established, why would I still Plan A?

If we are not living together, but still see each other, how often is it "permissable" to speak of the A/R?

How long is appropriate for a physical separation if both parties claim to seek reconciliation?

I am still very angry, how do I avoid LBs?

When will I stop wishing to inflict harm on OW?

When will I stop looking at him and seeing them...?

How can I trust him in any way shape or form when I have been repeatedly lied to?

How long after the end of the A should I wait to expect the loving kindness that I have grown to expect from him?

When this happens (as it has occaisionally) when will I start to accept it as genuine?

Anyone know how to exit this darned ride??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I saw you are a Christian . I would recommend the James Dobson book about Tough Love. If you are able to forgive him and let go of the past then I would have him agree to a plan, what you need and try to work it out. For example you may want an elder couple at the Church to mentor you and have the Husband mentor your husband, give him spiritual accountability. You may want to enetr into Christian Counseling together or have him get individul Christian Counseling to help him get honest and work out his problems. You will be in my prayers.
God Bless

Hey, hon,
I'm bumping this back to the top for you, and also, how long have you done a GOOD plan A? Yes, it's possible to do plan A while living apart.... but it may be time to move to Plan B. How's your Love Bank Level?

Faith1

It is 4AM and I cannot sleep! I get to sleep OK, it's staying that way that is the problem! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

stormy: Yes, we are Christians, and we have been in Christian counseling for about 6 weeks or so now... since just after d-day! I know it isnot on "my time" but His, but I am frustrated that I am not feeling that much better at this point... Very impatient I guess! H is seeing thepastor alot, but I really want to have more than that for him, I like the idea of an older couple, I'll ask the MC about that today (we both see her today for IC). BTW, I did read Love Must be Tough by Dr Dobson, very good!

faith: Funny you should ask that cause when I was talking to H this past evening I told him he is so overdrawn at this point and only depositing pennies at a time...<sigh> I see he is "trying" but it all feels like too little, too late... and I hate that. I want this loving out pouring of affection and I am not seeing it... maybe unrealistic, but it is what I want!

Went by his office today for the first time since the NC letter, etc... of course she was circling again!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I do think she bout wet herself when she came around the corner and I was sitting there waiting on him... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (he was in a massage). I still do not see it at all... she is so ugly!! Yikes!

I told him last night that this is NOT working for me (him and her both still working in the same building) and I CANNOT do this! It is too much to ask of me...Kinda already knew this was going to be a sticking point! He says he will leave it all if that is what I want, but I do not believe him. He also says "you hate what I do" which is not true at all!!! I am not asking him to stop being a massage therapist, I am asking him to stop doing it there with her always around!

I would love to see him go work for someone so it wasn't always a struggle to pay bills and for him to help support us! Is that really too much to ask? Most of us in the "real world" have bosses and weird co-workers and other things like that.... he loves being his own boss, he loves not answering to anyone... but it is not working for me at all! It hasn't for a long time!

I guess I feel so lost cause I feel I am in no real plan and I feel I lack direction here. Not my normal way of living!!!

Tx-RN,
I'm not one to give advice cos my sitch is such a mess but here goes.
Plan A is a way of life. It gives you the opportunity to not react with anger and show your H the love you feel for him rather than focus on the anger.
Is it always successful at saving your M? - No
Does it empower you? -Yes
I always felt great about mysself when I was plan Aing well. It wasn't enough to keep my H away from OW but it helped me survive.
Working together is a big no no. Your greatest chance at sving your M is to put temptation as far away as possible. Not always easy but IMHO essential.
Hope this helps you.
S

WOW, I am really impressed with all of the steps you are taking to try and work it out. He definitely needs to get a job somewhere else . Working in the same place that she works at is not acceptable. In the information they talk about trying to move to a new place ,new state, where you will they will not have a chance to bump into the X affair lady. So, he at least needs to move to a different job location. You two will continue to be in my prayers. Stay Strong.
Stormy

OK, I do agree, but one of the issues is he is supposed to come up w these things on his own... that he needs to leave the office. (that way, he has the control, not me)

He really scared me today, called and said he had this epiphany: that all his life he has done things for people cause he did not want to make them mad, whether he wanted to or not and he is angry and resentful for it! Duh?! The MC/IC told him about co-dependency... now he is seeing it, but I feel he is taking it too far cause I am hearing "I need to do what I want and what is best for me"....<sigh> Not sure that is the point, is it?

He used examples of "emotional manipulation" when I talk about him leaving every night... yes I threw him out, but he comes in every night and soaks up all the "homefield energy" and then leaves and I resent it! I am the one w the kids in the wee hours, having to check when the dogs bark or the alarm goes off... it sucks!

He also said he needs to do what makes him happy, even when that means I get mad?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I asked if this is where he takes up w OW again cause the mean W made him leave his lover?! He gotta little ticked w that but seriously, no one else thought that?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I am so at the point of turning tail and running away, just for the kids and the Lord Almighty am I still here at all!

Going to IC so will be back later!

I guess it depnds which advice you take. In the Dobson book it says it is okay to give them ultimatiums: Such as if you want the marriage to work then you neeed to get a job where you are not working in the same place as her, but the choice is yours you have the freedom to do what you think will make you the happiest. etc., Keep praying about it . I will pray God will give you wisdom in your choices.

Geez! Well IC was ok, he obviously took what she said and ran w it... she did not mean that there should not be agreements & discussions, etc (POJA?) but that he should not just go along w/ what I say or want and then resnt it just cause I might get mad. That we both need to learn to grow past the emotional games into "real" love. I agree!

Later WH said that he was meaning that we could discuss, etc, but that he was not just going to go along w/ something then resent it and regret it... that is ok, that I understand.

Later he got angry w/me cause I did not readily volunteer to pay to replace his nipple rings (he had to pull them off when he was arrested after tackling me)! I did help pay his insurance and help pay the DMV fines associated w/ this incident, but why the he** did he think he has no responsibility there?

I feel so lost! I guess I am going to Plan A to make ME a better person, whatever H does, but it is very, very hard to get past the anger!

Hopeful? Trying? I guess...

FWH had a bad today, called me repeatedly, and at one point he was cussing me up one side and down the other! "well why don't you go get a lawyer then, bi**h!" I hung up and then turned off my cell phone cause he kept calling!

All this cause I wouldn't pay half to have his nipples re-pierced! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> *&^%$ I will do em myself, babe, come on over! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> This was all dredged up cause DD13 got her navel peirced today... we told her when she was 13 we would allow it and after I got mine back in Dec, she just now worked up the nerve. She is a good kid, gets good grades, is incredibly helpful to me, etc... she deserved it if it was something she really wanted... It looks so cute, she is so petite and w/ a flat belly! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> She did very well, it really doesn't hurt that much, my ears hurt worse!

ANYWAY! FWH started in about the tax return.. that it was "half" his. I disagree... I made the income, I paid the taxes so I would be the one who got the $$$ back, right? If you pay NO taxes cause you make no taxable income then how can you claim 50% of the return??? Besides, I used the money to pay bills we accumulated together, including the furniture (paid it off! yeah!) the mortgage payment, two of his car payments, his fines, his insurance, baby girl's back daycare expenses and several smaller bills. I did not go nuts and I did not get frivilous... I did buy new towels and bathroom rugs, but after 2 1/2 yrs I thought it was time! Geez! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

No, I did not hand over cash to him, why should I? First, he never asked... second, since we were separated he has contributed zero$$$s to our family or household, none, nada, zip! I am still doing it all, but I will be damned if he is going to guilt me at all w/ the money!

Know what is sad? It almost worked...I almost said to he** w/ it and paid for the damned peircing!!! Grrr! Old habits die hard!

Tonight we talked some more and he asked me what I wanted to see happen... I said by this time next month I want to feel more settled, more of a pattern, more rhythm. He still says he wants to stay Md to me and wants to get right w/ God. He apologized and said the "little man" cursed me earlier, but the "bigger man" came out and apologized, which he has done several times... and he should!!!! He agreed a month was a good time frame, the implication is that *if* we both agree, he will move back home in April... we'll see.

Also, we decided (actually I decided and he agreed readily) I am going to go back to night weekends for awhile, I can work fewer hours and make more $. I used to work that shift but changed after the last A cause he said he did not like to sleep alone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Oh well, that worked well!! This means he will sleep here with the kids on the weekend and I can go to work, get away from alot of the politics I have been caught up in w/ day shift and also have some time to study as I restart my Master's program.

This was actually an option offered from my boss, when I gave her the resignation letter... She said she would work with whatever I wanted while I was looking for what I wanted to do. She has known for awhile that I have outgrown the floor work and would be leaving sooner or later... this way I can just do the minimum work, keep the pay, keep my benefits and take some pressure off myself that I had taken on at work...it is all too much right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Tx-RN:
<strong> Hopeful? Trying? I guess...

FWH had a bad today, called me repeatedly, and at one point he was cussing me up one side and down the other! "well why don't you go get a lawyer then, bi**h!" I hung up and then turned off my cell phone cause he kept calling!

All this cause I wouldn't pay half to have his nipples re-pierced! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Surgeon Lemonman's Warning: 2 X 4 potential here

WOW, I must say that your life and severely dysfunctional husband and your severe codependancy ON HIM certainly have drama. I feel very sorry for you. I mean this with sincerity TX.

TX-RN--if your daughter grows up to someday be in your situation (and sadly, her chances of this are certainly markedly increased watching you and your WH do this) , would you encourage her to accept the behavior that you do ? Would you encourage her to behave and make the choices in the manner you have? Whether you like it or not, you are giving her a blueprint of what to do someday. You really are. I know this is all so painful, but step back for a second and please realize how incredibly dysfunctional your realtionship is with your husband and how incredibly co-dependent on him you are. What you may think (and what other most certainly encourage) is marriage building ic most certianly NOT. I am not a MB purist or even a pupil, but even a moron like myself can see this.

YOu have to "get right" with your yourself before you can "get right" with a possible recovery of your marriage.

I fear that my by-line below characterizes you. I hope I am wrong.

Best wishes.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well I respectively disagree, LM, although I certainly appreciate your input! I absolutely see that we are co-dependent on each other, that we have used emotional maniopulation through the yrs to get what we want fr each other and that this way of relating is absolutely 200% dysfunctional!!!! I do get it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

All this being said, this is what I am trying to fix, within myself, while praying that he is also able to heal past this mess and the way we were relating to each other. The new ways of behaving, and that adults are human and can make mistakes and still be big enough to admit them and correct them... this is what I want my children to learn! FWIW, they are not privy to alot of this recent drama... I have tried very hard to draw those lines and insist that they be left out of the mess.

We are both doing IC w/ our Christian MC. I am coming here for advice and to vent so that I do not continue these patterns... it is not instantaneous, although I wish it were! I do not want to be co-dependent... I am going to get that book, Co-dependent No More, soon. I am still working through Power of a Praying Wife, and have 5 Love Languages, and HNHN for Parents. I also have read Love Must be Tough... I am working at it! I am not sitting around whining about my situation while being unwilling to work and improve it. Please know this!

You have to "get right" with your yourself before you can "get right" with a possible recovery of your marriage.

Exactly! I am trying to do just that! This is why he is not living here, this is why I am working on creating a peaceful home. This is why I am re-arranging my work schedule to improve the quality of life around here... this is why I have very specific guidlines as to what I will and will not accept from this man and still stay Md to him!

Co-dependency sucks, it is very dysfunctional and is not serving me well in my life as of late. BUT it is also something deeply ingrained in me and it is going to take time to extricate "me"... I was groomed for this role from a very early age...my Mother saw to that! And you know, H was too.

Neither one of us had a healthy role model in any parent to show us what life should be, how M is supposed to work, what "real life" requires of you... I insist that it end right here and now w/ me (or us) and that our children not have to deal w/ these things when they are my age. I want it to end w/ me!

It's a process, it's hard,it sucks, but I will survive this challenge!