WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Cindy came home from work today and she had a belated Anniversary card and a nice two page letter she wrote to me on how sorry she was and how much she wants to recover this marriage.


Needless to say " I Cried "


I never felt so much love for her as I did at that moment..


Cindy,

Thank you and you have my word I will work with you to save this Marriage, I Promise

Love always
Hubby

ADVICE NEEDED:


First let me paint the picture of this scenerio and I would like honest feedback on what I should do.


Me and Cindy are in recovery and we both agree that we care enough about each other that we want to save the Marriage. I have told Cindy that in order for this to happen there can never be any secrets between us and she needs to be very honest with me and tell me the truth on everything.

I told Cindy that I will not tolerate any lies of anykind past or present. I am that serious about saving this Marriage that all I ask is she be honest.

I'm a little upset with Cindy and just don't know how to handle the situation. so here it is and please be honest and tell me how you handled it or how you would handle it.


Scenerio:


Cindy is at her dad's an hour away and OM drives her there and drops her off, It takes them two hours to make a 1 hour drive. hmmm

Om leaves and Cindy calls Om at 9:00 pm and again at 10:30 pm or so she admits. I then find out that she actually called him again at 12:30 am right after we got off the phone and she talked to him for a good 40 minutes maybe more.

Now I confronted Cindy on this last night and she denied it at first, like always and then she came clean.. She told me it was a small detail that she remembered but just did not want to tell me.


Now here is my question.. When is enough enough. I have asked Cindy not to lie to me that if there is anything she has lied to me about she needs to come clean so we can deal with it now rather then later. I do not want to be six months into a good recovery when one of her little petty lies comes out and then we are right back to square one.

I have told Cindy that if she really wants to save this Marriage then she needs to be honest. What really drives me crazy is she always say's the same thing everytime.. " I swear thats all I have lied about and I'm sorry "


I mean come on. She wants me to trust her but if she finds it so easy to lie about this what will keep her from lying to me about talking to Om or her writing Om or her meeting Om. To what extent does this continue.

I have told Cindy in the past that if I find out she has lied to me about anything, it's over.. well she lied to me again and I am at a lose for what to do.

Do I give her another chance? or do I cut my loses while me and the kids are still happy and get away from her?


Do I sit down with her and confront her with the rest of the things I know or do I let her tell me..

It drives me crazy when I look at her and pretend everything is ok when it's not.


Here is another scenerio:


Cindy is out one night with the girls from work and she is having dinner with them and then talks them into going to the Bar Om is at, she somehow convices these people that this guy is an old freind, Ya right.. well anyway

She takes off with him to go look at his new home he just aquired ( Piece of crap house ) now she tells me nothing happened during this 40 minute road trip. Now here is a woman who has been hanging near OM all night and probably dying to show him her effection and she has had a couple drinks and she tells me nothing happened, Not even a kiss or hug...

So I ask my buddy the PI and all he say's is look you two are in recovery right, So let her tell you this way you won't explode and I don't feel like I am ruining it for you two.

Now I spent two hours on the phone yesterday with my buddy and I told him everything Cindy has told me and I asked him if it matches everything he knows and has..

All he could tell me was NO and that he will give me a couple days to work this out with Cindy and if she is still lying he will fill me in..

I hate having to get the truth like this, it does not feel natural and it does not feel like recovery..I feel betrayed everytime I have to confront Cindy with a Lie. it just seems so unfair.

It's hard to trust her when I know she holds back the truth.

I can see where she is not yet comfy with being honest about the A and some of the lies but I have made it so clear to her that I need the whole truth to make this work or for me to even feel safe making this leap of faith.

Again, How do I trust someone who still holds the truth back from me.

Everyone I knows tells me to take the kids and leave her. she is still holding back the truth.

I made a deal with CPS and everytime she lies to me I am putting the kids in jepeordy because I am trusting her blindly, and knowing she is lying..


So please give me your honest feedback..Please.


Do I stay and give her a chance to come fully clean or do I take the kids and get away from this mess before she hurts them and me more..

please be honest.

^Bump


Really need fedback people...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong> ADVICE NEEDED:


Me and Cindy are in recovery and we both agree that we care enough about each other that we want to save the Marriage. I have told Cindy that in order for this to happen there can never be any secrets between us and she needs to be very honest with me and tell me the truth on everything.

I told Cindy that I will not tolerate any lies of anykind past or present.

please be honest. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HOnesty....? YOu want it, YOU GOT IT!

Michael:

PLease tell me what do you mean when you say you "will not tolerate any lies of anykind past or present"? YOu are CONTINUING to Tolerate lies. Your scenarious above scream TOLERATING LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!. You have NOT backed up your boundaries At all, SO HOW CAN YOU EXPECT YOUR WIFE TO REALLY RESPECT YOU ON ANY OF WHAT YOU WILL TOLERATE. YOu have given enough "one more chances" that I cannot even count.

I have been purposely avoiding your thread with Cindy because HONESTLY...it screams of BS to me. This is JMHO brother. You asked for honesty, you are gonna get it. PLease don't be offended or cry foul after you read this.

YOur WW has betrayed you enough times to last 50 lifetimes. She has REPEATEDLY lied to you, and put your children's lifes in danger, she has also put your life in danger by having Sex outside of marriage. You live on the "high's" of marriage and then when that INEVITABLY dies, you are lost again. You have IRRESPONSIBLY and SELFISHLY attempted to kill yourself at least 2 times rendering your children essentially orphans. You are on the brink of financial disaster and your beautiful children are suffering for all of this. DO you realize that the $hit that they experience today stays with them for many years. The foul smell of all of this will resonate with them possibly forever. I ask you when is ENOUGH ..........ENOUGH ?????????????

I told you in a PERSONAL OPINION previosly that it was WAY WAY TOO soon to consider having your WW back in your life and children's , but you 100% CHOSE to "recover" YET AGAIN despite your personal and emotional INSTABILITY. I feel that you are ripe for another betrayal and more tragically personal breakdown. YOur severe co-dependancy on your wife is very disturbing, and in all honesty makes TRUE recovery very remote. Your scenarios above blow my mind. I am certain that there is more to this also.

I cannot and will not tell you what to do with your wife now, but you just need to know that YOU ARE 100% RESPONSIBLE for what happens to your children here as a result of your decision. The outcome of this is SOLELY dependany on you. YOu are their guardian, their protector. Are you doing EVERYTHING that you possibly can to protect them from MORE SUFFERING and pain?

Watching you here with your "recovery" is like watching a car crash in slow motion. I may be a harsh SOB...that is ok if you think that. You may think I am a certified A-hole with no compassion, but you would be SO WROMG my friend. The fact that I am posting you my opinion, knowing full well that I am probably gonna get lynched by zealots shows you that I care about you.

I will make no bones that I think your wife is contiuing to be dishonest with you and that you are "forgiving" and "recovering" far too soon. This is my opinion. I have been wrong in the past, and may very well be again, so take it for what it is worth.

You know that I only have best wishes for your children and you. YOu wanted honesty, so I am giving you honesty.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LemonMan:


First off I have always valued your thoughts on all of this. So I will never fly off the handle when A fellow friend is giving me sound advice.

I will follow up when I get more responses to my latest post..so until then


Lets get some feedback here please...and don't hold back like Lemonman did.. LOL

^bump


Come on people help me out here

^

Michael,

I’ve been thinking a lot on your sitch since we spoke last night & I have to tell you that I agree somewhat w/Lemonman. Let me explain.

First off, I don’t believe you two are in “recovery”. I believe you have “reconciled”. Big difference. Lemonman, in Michael’s defense, the court ordered that Cindy was doing everything in order to move back home. CPS was involved in that. Michael pretty much didn’t have a choice. OTOH, you do have a choice about where YOU live, Michael. And it seems that you want to live in this house w/your kids & your W. So, that being said, what do you do about the continuing secrets?

You have to think about this logically, Michael. You two have reconciled, you are NOT in recovery. True recovery starts when both people are honest w/each other, all the cards are laid on the table, and you show each other true commitment & choose to love each other no matter what. Yes, you both have made the choice to do what it takes to recover the M, you have made the choice to love each other, but as Cindy says, she has not developed those “ah” feelings for you yet. That makes a HUGE difference.

She is still very afraid of being honest. Correct me if I’m wrong, Cindy. I believe you are scared to death of how Michael will react to any news he receives about the A. Am I right?

Although you have tried everything, Michael to reassure her that you won’t freak out or blow your top, she is still very afraid. SHE doesn’t trust YOU. Have you thought about that? It is very possible that Cindy has never trusted you b/c of various reasons. So this is a learning process for her as well. I believe she still thinks that “Okay, what if I tell him everything, he freaks out, gets a hold of CPS & I lose everything?” And, “Did he really do all this changing? I’ll wait & see. It’s probably just to control the situation & then it goes back to same old, same old.” Don’t know if any of these is correct, but it’s a guess. Remember that.

Now, back to our discussion last evening. I still believe that you are not trusting God enough to know that He only wants what’s best for you & brought Cindy home for a reason. He has done several things for you that I’d like to point out. 1) He spared your life – twice (and please don’t tell me that you wish He wouldn’t have b/c think about your children. What if you had indeed died & these kids were left w/a mother (at the time) who didn’t give one iota about them? Would you really have wanted your children to go through losing their mother AND father? I know you better than that. You wouldn’t.), 2) He allowed an incident to happen like the one night that you guys had absolutely NOTHING to do except TALK to each other, laugh & have fun? Do more of this. It made you HAPPY! You laughed. You enjoyed each other. Do more of it. If it works, CONTINUE IT! And also, please consider taking me up on my suggestion of family Bible time. This is a good exercise for all of you & I’m sure your children will love it. YOU be the example, Michael. YOU show your children that you can conquer anything as long as God is leading you. Take the steps necessary & get to know the God that loves you. You don’t feel loved by Him & you feel punished b/c you are so separated from Him. Take the steps necessary to correct that. If you don’t do it now, then when? Everyone says later, I’ll do it later, but when the time comes, and you leave this world, do you want God to look at you & say, “You didn’t bother w/me on earth, why should I bother w/you now?” Not saying it would happen, but what if it did? Do you really want to take that chance? Besides that, YOU are the spiritual head of this family, Michael. How can you expect your children to follow God when, as the spiritual head, you can’t even follow God who keeps calling to you? I know He is. Every time you look at your Bible, you yourself said, something says to you to open it, but you don’t. You hold back. Michael, release your anger from God, quit blaming Him for this, fall on your knees, tell Him that you need His help, actually mean it & then just let your trust go completely to Him. He will not steer you wrong, believe me.

You said:

I made a deal with CPS and everytime she lies to me I am putting the kids in jepeordy because I am trusting her blindly, and knowing she is lying..

No, you aren’t trusting her blindly. If you were, you wouldn’t have a PI involved to check up on her. Don’t get me wrong. I believe she needs to be held accountable for her time & so forth, but is the PI confirming things that happened in the PAST or is he ehecking on her whereabouts NOW? I’m a little confused.

What kind of deal did you make w/CPS? Does Cindy know about this deal?

Okay, I think I’m done. For now…..

I'm going to talk to Cindy too in another post but got to go for now....

Love in Christ,
Y

****DOUBLE POST****

<small>[ March 11, 2005, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: StandingTogether ]</small>

Mike,

I have a problem with your post. I cannot tell from what you have written WHEN these events occured and when you found out you were lied to. Further, the PI information is it to do with what is going on NOW? If so it is relavent. If it was 4 months ago, then its relavency is only via validation that you are being told the truth.

Frankly, I agree with LM in that YOU need to take control of YOU, and protect your children. You canont control Cindy, you cannot make her love you, you cannot make her an honest woman, you cannot make her a good mother. She has to do those things.

I also agree with LM if you are going to issue ultimatum (something I find to be stupid and harmful, I'll explain in a moment), then be prepared to back them up. Otherwise keep your mouth shut. I hate ultimatums because things are NEVER binary(black or white), thus you are forced to OVER REACT or you are forced to NOT REACT to something that requires actions of some sort. My personal taste is to inform someone, I am not happy with a given action, make no threats, but formulate my plans of action IF the actions don't stop.

I deal with contractors that way. I deal with people in my life that way. It leaves me the maximum leeway to respond without pushing them one way or another. If I decide to end a business relationship, it simply ends. I don't do it for feedback, sympathy, remorse. I do it because it no long suits me to be involved with this person or business. I reach that decision and I act on it.

Ultimatums do nothing but put YOU at a huge disadvantage, and they are in the parlance of this site, LOVE BUSTERS. So stop it. Cindy knows you don't like being lied to. You can repeat it to her, but what are your plans if she continues. Mine would be to file for full custody, protect myself financially and realize that this marriage no longer suits me. It is after all MY decision, and frankly it would have little to do with her, just a result of her actions.

You need to back off, get your feet on the ground, start standing on your own two feet and realize your life will go on with or without her in it. You need to stop the love busters, the ulitmatums, and start focusing on your children. Cindy must take care of herself and address her issues with honesty.

Does any of this make sense? I hope something does.

God Bless,

JL

Hey Mike!

Having troubles trusting your FWW? I think I can relate to that feeling, LOL. I'm in point were I'm about to send all the honesty about the A to hell. Suppouse that my FWW comes and tells me everyting about the A's, why would I believe her? I can't verify what she says. She can make up all the stories she wants. So maybe it is worthless to keep trying to find out what happened. Maybe we just have to wait for them to tell us everything because they feel so guilty that they have to get it all out. But that has nothing to do with us. Matbe they feel more ashemed than guilty and that day never comes. Maybe they don't regret what they did or maybe I'm totally screwed up or maybe I'm a chimp hitting a keyboard randomly. I don't know anymore.


OT: Did you get my e-mail address on the other post?

Hi Michael,

Yeah I am freaking out about the post you made and when this all happened too? When you both decided to R?

In one way,I agree with LM because I have said all along that things were moving way too fast for my liking but yet that very day,your WW was already packed and on her way over to your home after seeing the Judge.I was like,wow.

Anyway,so there you both are,at home and beginning recovery even though the last contact was only 2 weeks before.NC barely had a leg to stand on so you did risk it all thinking she was being sincere now.

But,we have other threads that talk about honesty and the fog and WS's,etc.I even think I mentioned how the truth might come out piecemeal.Whether or not Cindy is truly forgetting specifics or just avoiding the truth for some reason is another guessing game that we go through.

You have a lot at stake here Michael.I know you want very much to believe her this time.I would like to see Cindy posting here more and I also see that she is trying.If there is one guarantee about R that is it's a crazy bumpy road and it's tough.Cindy being honest is extremely important but I dont always see that it's capable of being done right away and completely in every case.You're both nervous,testing the waters again,there's so much at stake and communication is almost always a problem that you need to relearn to do.

I have to admit that for,maybe,the first time here on MB I am ambivalent.I want to trust Cindy too to do the right thing by you yet I hesitate.I think the best determinant here is time and seeing how this pans out in the long run right? Afterall,I went through the same thing,only not as long,and I can sympathize with the anxiety and fear of contact resuming.Contact did eventually happen to me,again,but time on my WH was what helped.He failed though.Hopefully Cindy will not this time.

Review your MB rules and stick to them.Do your part no matter what else is going on.Be aware and calm.When you face the reality that contact could very well happen again and that Cindy could fail you again,I think it has less power over you.Yes it's painful but it's expected as an outcome.

Hang in there now ok? I am still hoping for the best for you both.

O

<small>[ March 11, 2005, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

I really don't know where to begin so I'll just start with the simple NOTION that I respect all of your concerns and thoughts on where and how fast this recovery is taking place.

First of all, I made a huge mistake in letting Cindy come home not for the fact of her return but just because we did not have safeguards in place to protect us from future talks of Honesty. Like COACH and many others have said. We Need a Plan if were going to do this.

My second concern is I have not been fair to Cindy on here at all. Most of my comments about contact and her not being honest is coming from past issues and not anything current. I am not saying she will not make Contact again, but I have some faith that she will not.

I took a couple days and did some really deep thinking into the simple fact "Can I ever Forgive Cindy" And I was amazed at the fact that I can. I know it will take time and a good plan. I also realize that if this is really going to happen, then Cindy needs to start opening up and talking more, She seems afraid to open up and tell me the truth. It's almost like she knows I know something but she is not sure what I know and does not want to give up the wrong item.

We spent a couple hours yesterday going over a few boundries and expectations because I was not being fair and did not give her much room to breathe.

I know this does not seem fair but here are my Boundries.


Boundries:

1) No More future Lies

2) No Contact of any kind with OM # 1 or OM # 2

3) MC Once we can afford it

4) Cindy's Dad is never allowed near my children or this home.


Now if Cindy breaks any of these Boundries then she understands and excepts the fact that I will take the children as is my right and move as far away from her as I can.


Now for my expectations:


Expectations:

1) Clear up all past lies

2) Quit job once I am back to work

3) clear my name of any wrong doing with Family and Friends

4) Have SF 5x a day <----- Joking HAHAHAHAH

5) open communication

6) No more girls nights out.For Now

7) no secrets of any kind

8) Quality time together. 15 Hours a Week


Now these expectations are items that I just expect Cindy to follow through on.


Now I know this is not a perfect list and it does need some fine tuning and maybe some MC help in there a little.

Cindy has made some horrible mistakes while in the fog. I think my biggest issue is that while she was out having fun for 10 months Length of A I was home raising 3 children and doing my best to make sure the kids were going to survive this.

I also have a huge problem with Cindy coming clean on any Past Lies she has told. Last night we sat there talking and she was still lying about a few things, I don't know how to make her understand that this is the most important part of us getting through this.

The truth is, Her A bothers me but the lies that went with it and still continue, bother me even more.

I know I have said in the past that if I catch Cindy in a Lie I will leave her for good. Well thats true and I will, But as of today Cindy has not told any present lies.

Now If Cindy continues to hold onto these past lies, I will be forced in time to walk away not because I don't love her or think we can't make it. It will be just for the simple reason that if she can't trust me enough to come clean then how can I ever trust her not to cheat again. It really is that simple.


CINDY:


I know it's hard for you to feel safe talking to me about the lies but what you really need to understand is that I do love you but in order to really have that strong faith in you I need to be able to look at you and see a person who has spoken pure honesty. The more you hide these past secrets and hide behind past lies it only pushes me further away from giving it my 100%.

You once told me that all you want is for me to forgive you and to move on and build this into a wonderful new Marriage, Well I can only do this if you can look at me and tell me the truth about everything.

What pushes me even further away is everytime I have to confront you with another lie, This method is sapping my energy away faster then your A did. At least when you were sneaking around with the OM's I at least could understand why you had such a hard time telling the truth but now that you claim these A's are over, you still hold onto these lie's.

I know you must feel guilty and just plain horrible for the things you have said and done to me and the children, I know you love the children and I know you want to be in-love with me once again. But in order for this to happen we have to stick to a Plan and you have to get rid of all these past lies you hold onto.

For the sake of me and the children, either come clean or let me and the kids go find happiness somewhere else.

I love you enough to stand by your side but that love will vanish if you keep holding onto these past sin's.

I hope my words bring some kind of peace to your heart and I hope you can find it in you to open up to me and unload these past lies that hold me back from entering the garden that GOD has created for us and the children, right now I feel like a stranger outside those gates and do not feel strong enough to enter this haven God has created for us as long as there are snakes on the loose.. (LIES)


I love you and so do the children, we want to build this into something wonderful. DO YOU

Hi Michael,

I suppose we should put aside the fact that some of us,including you,think that Cindy came home too soon.She is home already so let's deal with that now.

Being fair to Cindy is of course a necessity but many times what you are feeling may not appear to be fair.Afterall,a lot of what Cindy put you through wasn't fair either right? Life is unfair.But,that is why I would like to Cindy post here more.If you cannot afford MC right now,maybe considering us non professionals for the time being is an option.Not being licensed counselors,I still think a lot of what many of us suggest isn't too far from the mark.Pass the word onto Cindy if she isn't reading,ok? We do want to hear her side and what she feels too.

Boundaries.

1) No more (future) lies is a great boundary but be prepared to really end it.I had the same boundary long ago with my WH and I found contact(lies) with the homewrecker.That was it for me.I was so sad because my H failed and he KNEW that that was his last chance.He did not get a multitude of chances to get busy and work on this marriage.He was either fully committed to me and our marriage and family or to the homewrecking trash and he chose the later.That was it,over.

2) No contact of any kind is also a good one,ties in with #1 but be prepared for this to be broached too.

3) MC isn't really a boundary to me.It's a requirement of your recovery.

4) I am not sure why the FIL isn't allowed near the kids so I have no other comment on that "boundary".

your expectations aren't unreasonable.Does Cindy have any?

Your biggest issue is that Cindy was in her A while you stayed home with the kids? I am not sure that is true of you Michael.Many of us have/are doing this but it's not the main issue,not for me as an example.My main issue was NC.

Obviously,not being a WW I do not know what that is like and whether or not Cindy is being truthful about not remembering or is just lying by omission or what.That is why it would be good for Cindy to be here talking to other FWW's.

How are things going this weekend?

O

<small>[ March 13, 2005, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

OctoberGirl:


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2) No contact of any kind is also a good one,ties in with #1 but be prepared for this to be broached too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this is broached, then Cindy understands that she has chosen this path and that it ends with Me taking the children and leaving her for good...Very Simple. I don't have a problem doing this and I believe she does understand this.



</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">4) I am not sure why the FIL isn't allowed near the kids so I have no other comment on that "boundary". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cindy walked out on me one time back in Aug when I confronted her about her still having the A and she took the kids and went to her Dads an hour away. She got there friday night and on saturday made plans to drive back to our area to spend the night with OM and have sex, So she left my children with her Dad who knew where she was going.

Also her dad has talked on the phone with OM on three occassions

Her Dad also went over to OM's house with Cindy back in October for close to an hour and had coffee with Om

Her Dad also let Om into his home three weeks ago when He drove Cindy to her Dads.

I talked with her Dad and asked him if Cindy has talked to Om while there three weeks ago beside the fact of him driving her there and her Dad told me NO... Cindy later informed me she talked to Om twice on that Saturday and once the next day to let him know she was moving back into the house with me and the kids. So her Dad lied to me. He did know

So to me he fully excepts what his daughter did to me and the children and in my book that makes him scum just like Om


As for how am I doing this weekend?

I feel better today I still struggle with her past lies and some personal SF issues. The kids have some friends over and they are having a blast.. Cindy is doing laundry and trying to be understanding of my sour moods as they come..

Actually I feel like I am in a bad mood..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong>

So to me he fully excepts what his daughter did to me and the children and in my book that makes him scum just like Om

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess this is kind of perplexing to me. The fact that you think the OM and FIL are scum is understandable, but the actions of your Wayward Wife are 1000X worse. It is her actions that allowed the OM and FOL to be "Scum". If they are scum, what does that make her?

If you are gonna truly forgive your Wayward Wife, then somehow in your recovery, you are going to probably have to forgive your FIL.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

P.S. As to the OM.........Screw him, he should be lucky that your fist is not still in his larnyx. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> P.S. As to the OM.........Screw him, he should be lucky that your fist is not still in his larnyx. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is just too funny! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Y

LemonMan:

Your hit and run posts drive me craxy, stay and fight damn it....LOL


I see your point and I raise you five hundred.


My point is very simple...I have day's I look at Cindy in Disgust and I do see her as Scum, but then I see a woman trying to earn my trust again even if it is is some kind of twisted form. Her father has never stepped up in my face and said sorry..I should have talked with my daughter and made her see the wrong in all of this and I should have respected you as the father of my Grandchildren and talked to you..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong> LemonMan:

Your hit and run posts drive me craxy, stay and fight damn it....LOL


I see your point and I raise you five hundred.


My point is very simple...I have day's I look at Cindy in Disgust and I do see her as Scum, but then I see a woman trying to earn my trust again even if it is is some kind of twisted form. Her father has never stepped up in my face and said sorry..I should have talked with my daughter and made her see the wrong in all of this and I should have respected you as the father of my Grandchildren and talked to you.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, Micheal, I see what you are saying, but nonetheless, you may need to be the "big guy" here and still forgive him DOWN THE LINE. If you are looking for a TOTAL recovery, I don't think you can expect to be recovered with your wife and have this discord between you and her father. Your relationship with him obviously is gonna be on the back burner here, but it will need to be addressed. It is in my humble opinion that if you are gonna go the distance with a recovery with your wife who has betrayed you to the worst degree, then I am sure you can find a way to forgive him for the greater good of your marriage. Just my .02 bro. You know I always root for you man.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mike:
I'm with you 100 % on the FIL issue. Forgiving him and reconciling with him are two different things. You're married to Cindy, not him. He aided and abetted the betrayal repeatedly. Who needs him?