<waves at M&C>

Hope you guys are doing well today.

greergan:


Thank you for the kind words. I can't seemj to find your story?


Do you have one?


We are doing ok...I guess one day at a time. I have no Plan and I have my doubts, what can I do?

If this is a real recovery then I guess I should be lucky, if it's not then I'm screwed..

Hello Everyone! I'm finally posting again. Like Mike said, I'm more of a weekend poster. Soon that could change. I know Mike already posted that I gave my notice at work. This coming Thursday, March 24th is my last day. I have no plans right now to look for another job either. It may actually be kind of nice to have some time off. I'll have more time to read and post. I'll have more time to get some projects done around the house that I always seem to put off for the weekend, but never end up getting around to it.

I have to admit though, I'm a little skeptical about me not working. Mike questions me now when I am working about whether or not I've made or received any phone calls. Also, once I am not working, I'm going to be home by myself from 9:00 AM until noon, when our youngest gets home from school. He's in half-day kindergarten. I just wonder how Mike is going to believe anything I say pertaining to what I have done in those morning hours, seeing that no one is around to keep an eye on me. I think he worries about this as well. I have plenty to do to keep me busy. I'm not even worried about me contacting the OM, but I'm positive Mike will be.

Speaking of NC.....I know this is nothing, but I haven't had any contact for 3 weeks. I have a tremendous amount of faith in myself that I'm going to stick to the NC rule. "Why do I have this faith in myself" you may ask. It's simple.....I have this faith because I'm so SINCEREin wanting to recover my M. This time around, it's different. I'm trying so hard to show Mike that I'm sincere. I'm trying so hard to be supportive to him. He does not make it easy. I know, I know. It's not going to be easy. It's not going to be a smooth road. It's just so damn frustrating for me as well. I have a lot of work ahead of me.

One of the things that bothers me is that I never know what kind of mood he's going to be in. His mood can swiftly change. I have often referred to him as Black Cloud and this is even before my A. I know it's not right and believe me, he's called me worse. Anyway, for the most part, he always seems angry. I think he dwells on the negative. I think that's why in part he's having these nightmares. I tell him to think in the positive, but that's hard for him because he has no faith and trust in me.


Mike does not know how to call a timeout and just walk away when we're arguing and he's angry. I try to. I tell him to give me some space and I'll go into another room , but he follows me wherever I go because he wants to continue it. He has a lot of anger and does not know what to do with it. I can tell you that he is not dealing with his anger in a constructive manner. I really think he needs to take an anger management course.

Just thought I would give an update from me.

Cindy - the dynamic you wrote about is sometimes called "pursuit and withdrawal". Michael needs to understand that when that kicks in - you run off and try to avoid further discussion, he chases you around and tries for more - the conversation has ceased to do the two of you any good.

That's not fair to him, because he wants to hash things out and is repeatedly frustrated by you running away. But maybe you could have a bargain... if you need to bail on a conversation, you agree to take up the matter again a little later. Just a thought.

GC

Dear Michael,

I hope none of my previous post upset you in any way. That is not my intention. It's just my feelings about some of the issues going on right now. Like you, I have feelings too.

I meant what I said in my post about wanting to recover our M. I'm trying to be supportive to you. I'm trying to fill your EN's. Like I've said before, I feel that no matter what I do, it's not enough and not good enough. If you want to recover our M, it's going to take both of us. I think you know that. We both have to give effort, time and committment. I know you have your doubts about a lot of things, but so do I. I guess maybe that's normal to have doubts, but that doesn't mean we have to "feed" those doubts. It's when you feed your doubts, you become very angry.

I know that what I have done ( the A, mistakes , lies, etc.} has you very angry. You're letting this anger consume you and you're not dealing with it constructively. You know what I'm talking about.

Michael, I'm here wanting and trying to recover our M. I guess like anything, we aren't going to see immediate results. I am true to my word about not having any contact. I am not making/receiving any phone calls except to/from you. Read my letter I wrote to you again, if you still have it.

Love,

Cindy

Cindy,

It's good to see you here. We've all been thinking about you.

I can understand your concerns about not working & Michael getting a little paranoid. Happens to almost all us BS's. I know w/my H & I working different shifts, at the beginnning, I was so paranoid about what he was doing while he was home & I was at work. But the more time went on & he kept showing me that he indeed was trustworthy, my doubts started to go away & I could just enjoy talking w/him again. He also made sure to call me every day at work b4 he left, filled me in on where he was going to be, who he was going to be with, I had access to all his e-mail passwords so he knew that at any time I could check & see if he was truthful & every time he was, it just reassured me there wasn't any contact & he was trying to make things right.

I believe your sincerity about saving the M. In time, Michael will too. It's all about consistency & showing him how trustworthy you can be. That will reassure him. He needs a lot of it right now. I can see what you're saying about his moods & all I can say is that his reactions & moods are normal. Every BS goes through them. That doesn't make it any more easier, but maybe that'll help you understand them better.

My H & I ran into the same problem that you & Michael are having. He didn't want to talk when I did. What I had to learn was how to communicate w/him the way he understood it & the way he would be more forthcoming. My H refused to talk to me unless I was calm & could discuss the situation, not yell at him or argue. It's very hard to do when you're feelings have been hurt, but I like Graycloud's idea of taking up the conversation later. This means an action on your part to say, Hold up. This is getting out of hand. Can we come back to this later? And then set a time when you can. That would up to YOU. And then follow through it. Actually do talk to him at the time you say. But, you also have to be prepared to hear what you NEED to hear, not necessarily what you WANT to hear, if you know what I mean.

Good to see you & hopefully we'll see you around a lot more. I'm still pulling for you guys. If it's any conselation, we have faith that you two will make it through this. Can't hurt to have other people in your corner, can it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope you two have a lovely weekend!

Love in Christ,
Y

Hmmmm


Not much to say these day's...

But Cindy is right, I will worry very much when she is home alone for three hours because she once told me she made most of her calls to Allan from the home phone before I started staying home..she even made the calls while Cody our youngest was here...

so basically from 9am - 4 pm she could talk to OM all day..

So what to do...plus I may be going away on a business training trip for three weeks and that really makes me nervous

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong> Hmmmm


Not much to say these day's...

But Cindy is right, I will worry very much when she is home alone for three hours because she once told me she made most of her calls to Allan from the home phone before I started staying home..she even made the calls while Cody our youngest was here...

so basically from 9am - 4 pm she could talk to OM all day..

So what to do...plus I may be going away on a business training trip for three weeks and that really makes me nervous </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Been there, done that. I hated know that my little one was exposed to any phone conversations <shrug>

Anyway, what do you do know?
You either trust Cindy or you don't.
If you do extend trust then you tell yourself that you trust Cindy and if something comes out later you will probably find out about it.

Don't stress yourself and continue with Plan A.

Well the weekend is at a close and I feel a little better. For some reason my thoughts on saving the marriage fluctuate between the need to save it and the disgust that I feel she is still not being 100% truthful on some aspects of the A,

I know some of you have told me to let it go and some of you say push for the truth, even if it hurts. I know it takes time but it's time that scares me. How do you ever know when it really is recovery?

I just don't get the Why's yet..maybe it's because she does not want to talk about it, maybe she does not feel safe enough to tell me the other things.

She calls me black Cloud, But go through ten years of MArriage thinking your wife is screwing everyone and even the happiest of people become depressed and a Black Cloud...I rather be a GREYCLOUD..LOL


How can you trust someone who still keeps secrets about the A to themselves.


I have been keeping to myself a lot lately losing interest in Sf with her, I feel like i'm alone in all of this and nobody understands me or what I feel..I don't even understand it...

I just have this strong feeling there is more.......not a ton more but more...And I feel I can't go on till I know all has been told..


Any thoughts, I could really use some tonight..

Michael,

I don’t know how much help I can be since I’m going through my own demons, but I thought I’d try anyways. 100% truthful? Only Cindy knows that. What kinds of questions do you have? Have you written them down at all? If you have, then check off the ones that are answered. If not, maybe this is a good idea. I think you have though if I’m not mistaken. Is it still the same questions you had earlier that you feel she isn’t being truthful about?

How do you know when you’re in recovery? Good question. Is she holding herself accountable? Cindy, can you answer this? What is she doing to try to fill your EN’s? Is she getting back into the groove of being a W & mother again? Now on to you – what are you doing to try to fill her EN’s? What are you trying to do to move forward? Perhaps you two can pick a new spot to go to that’s just “yours”, perhaps you can reclaim your M by picking a new song to dance to that shows your commitment to one another, can you think of anything that you can do to reclaim your M?

I think it would be helpful to see how you’ve made progress. Can you list the things you two are doing to make progress? Can you see ANY progress?

You can’t trust her right now. She knows this, right? Have you told her that you WANT to trust her but these half-truths are holding you back from doing that? If so, what does she say?

Love in Christ,

Y

Mike,
I’m sure there’s more that she could tell you. And it’s natural for you to want to know it all and know it all now, but it doesn’t work that way. Before people become willing to share their deepest darkest secrets of sin and corruption they want to know that in the sharing will come some sort of redemption and forgiveness. They already know how what they have done will be judged because in moments of clarity, they have already judged themselves.

Because of this, I’m quite sure that Cindy equates telling all with additional punishment and frankly, as things are at the moment, I’m also quite sure that she just doesn’t feel that putting anymore damning facts on the table is going to help you and she to get past what you already have to both deal with.

To open herself up to the additional acrimony and pain that telling you the rest would entail, she is going to have to feel confident that you will handle your hurt in such a way as to not destroy any last chance that she feels she has with you to reconcile. If you want it all to come out you’re going to have to be patient. More important, you’re going to have to earn her trust in you. And I know that this is one of the great paradoxes of being the BS; that you have to actually be the one to earn her trust, but let’s not forget that reconciliation is a mutual process. It’s not a one sided exercise in which the wayward one begs and scrapes for forgiveness, at least not in real life.

No! Reconciliation is a process in which both parties come together working as a team, each seeking to heal the pain of the other with selfless love and understanding. This is a process that takes time, effort and lots of very hard work. It’s truly a process during which the meaning of what love really is, is finally learned and the will of the participants to grow in that love, is truly tested. This is not a process for the faint of heart. Learn that now or suffer the consequences going forward. Where reconciliation is concerned, there are truly “no free lunches.”
Coach

Mike, I got it to work!! YAY!

[color:"red"]I don't know about all of you but I do not like the new set up, change is good when it actually works. As for me and Cindy we are doing ok. I wish I could say awesome or fantastic but that would be a lie. We are taking it day by day and thats all we can do. When I get this to actually work better I will post a longer reply to the past week or so. [/color]

Hi Ms (and Cindy),

Nice to see you back.

M, doing "ok" is fine for right now, if that is true. Awesome would be better, but expectations are what gets me into trouble alot!!

jls

Well I have not been posting for some time now because there has been so much going on in my life. I have been interviewing with other companies and have found a home with a new retail company that wants me to move to Florida next year and take over a District Position. They are even willing to move me there sooner if I like but for now I have decided to remain in Rochester.

I don't know why but the past couple day's I have felt like I am married to that same person who was the WS and I can't understand why.

I don't feel anger anymore over what cindy did, I do know I don't have a lot of faith in a person who tells me " I'm here aint I " those words run cold through my soul. I want a person who really want to make amends to the Marriage and I know it takes two. I feel like I am at that point where I really have done all I can to save my marriage.

Tonight when I got home from work I told Cindy that I can't do this anymore and that I feel we should go our own way come June. If she wants to move out sooner then that will be her choice. I actually found that after much thought I don't even care if she were to go back to OM. Like most of you have said, She will contact him if she really wants to.

I told Cindy that I want to feel like I am number one in her life and that I am not just an after thought of the OM, I want to be wanted in every possible way. I want to look at my wife and see a look in her eye that say's " I am here because I love you and want this " Instead I see a look of " I'm here because I feel I need to be "

I wonder if this is just a random thought I am having or have many bs's after going through everything to win there spouse back decide that it's not what they want after all?

Am I doing the right thing, I don't know.... All I know is staying with Cindy feels wrong right now and I don't know why.

Hi, Mschluter.

The problem you are currently experiencing is based mostly on resentment. This is perfectly normal and to be anticipated.

Before either of you do anything else that you may regret, both of you please read this article by Dr. Harley regarding dealing with resentment after an affair.

All the best,
Gimble

Mike,

Are you doing OK?

NCW

Update:

I know it's been awhile and I for one have been very busy with work and dealing with the many demons that have surfaced of late.

I wish I could figure this all out, but trust is so hard to hand someone who so quickly hurts you with the trust you bestowed upon them in the first place.

Cindy is at a point in all of this where she does not even want to talk about the A or the OM, She is like a very defensive clam.

Work is going great, I feel like some of the old Michael is showing back through and that scares me.

I find I am getting annoyed with Cindy and OM a lot lately. Not sure why, Maybe it's because I get the feeling Cindy is writing him again or making contact in some way.

The kids are starting to come around and my Daughter just has no such faith in her Mom, She feels she will mess up again and hurt her deeply, The school has some serious concerns over this because my daughters grades are steadily dropping.

Cindy herself, Know Idea what she is thinking or feeling anymore, she does not really tell me anymore.

Mike,

Just a couple of comments. I saw above how you wanted to feel like "number 1" with Cindy. I totally understand that. But I want you to think about this a little bit.

Right now, you have painful evidence that at least for a time, you were not #1. She was with the OM. But what did you have before? Now you KNOW that for a time, you were not #1, but before, you did not KNOW that you were. Get my drift? What evidence is there TRULY that you CAN be #1 in someone's life? And I mean hard evidence, as hard as the evidence of an A which shows the opposite opinion.

Just isn't there. The A is PROOF you were not #1 FOR A TIME. But there is not PROOF that you are at any given time. Am I making sense?

You just have to trust her, like you did before the A. The A has only made it harder to do so. It has not changed your part of it in any way. The requirement that you TRUST you are #1.

At least, that is how I trusted my spouse again. How I fought off those particular demons.

As far as her not talking to you, that is not a good thing. And we all know that. That is one of those no-brainer things. "Communication" is an almost universal buzzword to a healthy relationship.

Easier said than done. The easiest way to get her to talk is to be her knight. Treat her gently, delicately, and with no expectations.

Again, easier said than done. And it may not work. Didn't with me.

All I can say to you is clearly define your threshold and try to keep the anger at bay. A blurry threshold and an angry spouse will not accomplish anything. You also know this.

So I am off my soapbox and just encouraging you now. Do the best you can for you. That's all you will be asked to do.

NCWalker

Michael,

so glad to see you back. First, look up some of Bob Pure's posts and emulate how he made it safe for Squid to start opening up. Second, I am curious why you think there may be contact again?

Hugs and prayers that you and Cindy will be good again.