I have been reading through all of your old posts, as well as your wife's. There are things about you both that remind me of my H and me. It sounds like your W is addicted to A's, using them as an escape from pain in her life. I did this with one OM for 3 years. It is like a tall drink for an alcoholic! However, I want to ask you--why do you give up now? Say she WAS an alcoholic with a "disease"? Would you give up on her then? I know that it has been a long time, but as I read your posts, I am reminded how I feel with my H at times, and I want to say something in a loving way. Sometimes you make yourself sound so perfect. You DO have a lot of wisdom to give to others, but I think in our own lives, often when we are in the right, we can really get on a high horse, you know? I am thinking that you have acted like that with your wife. YOu talk so much about loving her unconditionally, but when you TALK about it all of the time, you can be making her feel pretty UNLOVABLE. I am also wondering that as you post, is it so that she is hopefully reading it? I think she sure thinks so, and it does kind of seem so. Remember that even though you HAVE taken the high road for so long, You MUST do it with HUMILITY. My H has posted under WWJD and WWJDNOW and he got some really great questions and responses regarding what Jesus would do. He and I have not discussed the fact that we are both reading and sometimes posting here, but last night after reading both your and your W's threads, it is NOT a good idea to read eachothers! YOur W has a lot of resentment built up that reminds me of how I have felt. Again, I am just trying to make you think, and I know talking through this could help me too. Lastly, JESUS WOULD STILL TELL YOU TO STAY MARRIED. DON'T GIVE UP.

Scarlet, this may be a bit of a detour, but I have to say

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JESUS WOULD STILL TELL YOU TO STAY MARRIED. DON'T GIVE UP.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please be careful - the merit of what you have to say is diminished by this statement. You cannot speak for Jesus in anyone's situation but your own.

This was incredibly triggering for me because Jesus told my husband's EA OW to call him after we requested no contact... at least, according to her perception, Jesus told her to call. See how that lands like a lead balloon? If Jesus told her to call, then Jesus is against my marriage.. Very very triggering, still. even though the wound is over four years old, it still hurts. OW was a very manipulative person with religion as her weapon of choice.

I just mean that Jesus never "invented" divorce. Humans did. Marriage in its ideal form should mimic the relationship between Christ and his people. To stay marriage is a choice. And your OW is nuts for saying what she said-I am sure you knew that. LOL.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by scarlet and regretful:
<strong> I just mean that Jesus never "invented" divorce. Humans did. Marriage in its ideal form should mimic the relationship between Christ and his people. To stay marriage is a choice. And your OW is nuts for saying what she said-I am sure you knew that. LOL. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, Jesus did say that divorce was not justified except in the case of adultery. God hates divorce, but he also hates adultery. So much so that He gave us an out if we choose to take it.

I have done a theology study on Jesus' teaching of divorce. There are several interpretations of Jesus' statement in Matthew, where he says "Anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery" Matthew 5:32 He is not saying at all that he allows divorce. He is talking about remarriage and that when one remarries he is an adulterer. Also, the exception is translated to mean a sexually immoral life-style, and also most likely in the "betrothel" or engagement period, which was considered the same as marriage in that day.
In marriage, two become one, and there is nothing we can do to change that in Gods eyes. That is why remarriage is considered adultery. I don't know if this has anything to do with my point to ncwalker, though. This IS a marriage builders website is it not?

scarlet, this is a Marriage builders site, not a save-the-marriage-at-ALL COST site. Sometimes success is not saving that marriage. But that is always up to the betrayed spouse, they know better what they can or can't endure.

And not to get into a theology debate, but many theologians think that divorce is acceptable in the case of "unfaithfulness and that is their rendering of Matthew 5:32.

I don't think its appropriate to try and make a BS feel guilty - or sinful - for making a rightful decision to move on. Many do move on and are fully justified in doing so in the eyes of God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't think its appropriate to try and make a BS feel guilty - or sinful - for making a rightful decision to move on. Many do move on and are fully justified in doing so in the eyes of God </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tastefully and accurately put.

Especially in this case... sometimes enough is just enough, and I can guarantee NCW feels plenty bad about that without our judgements. I remember all too well the 4th of July event, and wondered how anyone could endure..yet he did.... NCW has always been admired by me and many.

I have made no judgements and I do not WANT ncwalker to feel guilty. The fact is, we are all guilty of somethingn though. I do not think that on this site anyone should be saying divorce is ACCEPTABLE. If ncwalker wants to comment himself, I think that would be a good thing. Honestly, with your attitude towards his WW, it is not a surprise to me that the WW felt so judged. I don't even know these people and I am talking pretty impartially. Certain people sound a little too emotionally involved as I read, and it might be no coincidence that it is betrayed wives.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by scarlet and regretful:
<strong> I have made no judgements</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sometimes you make yourself sound so perfect. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That struck me as a judgmental statement. There are others in your post, but that is a good example.

Why do you not think anyone on this site should be saying divorce is acceptable? Because it is a marriage building site?

Would you advise a person to stay in a physically abusive marriage that endangered their life? Or if a child were being sexually molested? If there were drug use that ran the family bankrupt so that the children could not be fed, housed, nor given medical attention?

To avoid a long banter back and forth I will assume you would agree that a person should not remain M under those circumstances.

Now we have moved from "never say D is acceptable" to a gray area of "sometimes it is acceptable."

Granted, ncwalker is not, to my knowledge, facing any of those situations but it does illustrate that there are shades of gray.

I would suggest that a marriage is a union of two people working together and forsaking all others. ncwalker's wife appears to have opted out of the "forsaking all others" clause and therefore left ncwalker without a true marriage to build.

Only ncwalker can decide whether or not there is a M to build, and whether or not he is willing to wait around any longer to see what his WW will do.

S&R,

I do appreciate your concern and you have asked some hard questions. So I will try to answer them honestly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There are things about you both that remind me of my H and me. It sounds like your W is addicted to A's, using them as an escape from pain in her life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you assume it was pain? From her posts? She and I both posted when we were in pain, but that doesn't mean it was the onus of all this. She probably doesn't agree, but I thought we had a good marriage. It needed work, and there was a lack of closeness, but it wasn't destructive. On most things, we were of one accord. If I am wrong, and we weren't in agreement, she didn't say so in a way I understood. Pretty much just like everyone else, really. I could see things that were MUCH BETTER than when we started out. Our fights were much better, more controlled. We were in much more agreement over what to do with the kids.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Say she WAS an alcoholic with a "disease"? Would you give up on her then?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who says I am giving up on her? I am leaving her. We'll use your analogy, if you don't mind. (And I am not saying this is true, I am saying this hypothetically). What if she was an alcoholic and came home and beat the kids? Or stole money for food to buy alcohol? If the well being of the children was endangered, are you saying YOU would stay and tough it out? If I was your neighbor, you and I would have a serious talk about what it means to be a parent. You do not know all the circumstances. I truly appreciate the concern. I truly do. But this is not some knee-jerk decision I am making because my feelings are hurt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that it has been a long time, but as I read your posts, I am reminded how I feel with my H at times, and I want to say something in a loving way. Sometimes you make yourself sound so perfect. You DO have a lot of wisdom to give to others, but I think in our own lives, often when we are in the right, we can really get on a high horse, you know?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Guilty as charged. (And I took it in a loving way). But I WOULD like to address the comment.

On making myself sound so perfect... Do you think that because I post well? I am a spirit filled Christian. As kooky as this may sound to you (and I have posted this before) when I "help" someone, I feel LED to. I don't really think about my posts, I just let them flow. When I am letting God work, they are usually excellent posts. But HE gets the credit. Sometimes I vent, or discuss things like you and I are now, but the few posts where people read them and reply with a big thank you or a wow. Sorry. Not me. Just me letting God use me. That is NOT who I am day to day. I just sometimes feel led, and I let it rip. Sometimes people ask me for help and I don't. I want to, but I don't feel it. Means it would be MY strength and UNLIKELY to be that helpful. I don't have the experience to draw on my own self to minister to other couples. Sadly, I am getting it.

OR on making myself sound so perfect... I would ask for some help from some OTHER people on MB who have read my posts. I have fessed up to quite a bit of mistakes I made during my Plan A. I haven't hid those facts. I have done some wrong stuff. Usually, the next day I am confessing it to my pastor or counselor and DEFINITELY explaining how wrong I was and apologizing to my sons if they knew. Sometimes I have made RAP sound pretty bad when I am VENTING. But who doesn't vent about the WS? Sometimes you have to. Back during MOST of the first affair, I was protecting her honor. NOBODY knew. I had to let all that stuff out somewhere. Surely the content of my posts has highlighted my failings as well.

OR on making myself sound so perfect... Maybe I am. (I can hear you all CRINGING at that, and said it more for effect than anything else). Look. I am a Spirit Filled Born Again Christian. I believe I have a living God whose Spirit dwells within me. I REALLY BELIEVE that. Heck. I can FEEL it and I KNOW when He is talking to me. If (and I mean IF) I am a great man, it is ONLY because of that. His Spirit holds me ACCOUNTABLE and I do not take that responsibility lightly. If some of your faith is not there, well get it there. All it takes is effort. Why is it surprising that someone could walk strongly in the Spirit and be a mechanical engineer instead of a pastor? Why would that exclude me from a strong walk with God? Which would result in a holy lifestyle. Maybe holy enough that it was noticeable when compared with others? RAP led me to the Lord. A debt I will NEVER be able to repay. I REMEMBER who I was before that and I have never looked back. I try and do the WWJD and I think I am pretty successful because I take it seriously. But HE gets the credit.

And OF COURSE I make mistakes. I am intelligent. It is hard to "turn that off." And when RAP and I argue, SOMETIMES I use that against her and probably talk down to her. SOMETIMES I corner her like a rat in a trap with my logic and it frustrates her to no end. You'll just have to believe me when I say that when I get to that point, I am usually really torqued up. And then I would ask you this - if I am RIGHT, why NOT call her on it? I don't mean with a haughty attitude, you should always try and speak well. And I do try, but on the other side of the coin, she can be pretty unreasonable. Sometimes I fail at it. Yes. It is a pattern I can fall into, but I am aware of it and struggle mightily to AVOID it. Most people I know do not think I talk down to them. They consider me approachable, even though I am smart. RAP probably bears more than her fair share, but she too has her patterns and they hurt deeply. She has to push my buttons for some time before I fall into that trap. It takes quite a bit to get me going, and when I do I have never thought it was a good choice.

Back to your alcoholic analogy. If you knew an alcoholic who quit drinking, but wanted to go to a bar because he missed the atmosphere and swore he wouldn't drink, would you call b*llsh*t on that? You would be stupid not to. I think Jesus himself would call b*llsh*t on that. Heck, he would probably say it. Remember what he did in the temple with the money lenders? Why does everyone think he was such a sissy, pansy, soft-spoken prophet? Why does everyone think we have to be? He was the LION of the tribe of Judah. He was reserved, quick to listen, and slow to anger. But he DID anger when the situation called for it. WWJD? I can tell you this, sometimes He would crack some skulls.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOu talk so much about loving her unconditionally, but when you TALK about it all of the time, you can be making her feel pretty UNLOVABLE.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I? All you really know is that I POST about it a lot. To many different people on many threads. To me, it is an important concept. And I only TRY to do it. I don't always succeed. Of late, I have been pretty hard on her. But it is mix tough love and having to defend MY emotions and feelings. In my defense, she has been VERY hard on me and my sons. I will not go into details because it is my personal life, but do not presuppose to think I have made my decision lightly. It is a grave decision and I am fully aware of the consequences. She was also fully aware of the consequences of cheating on me again after I forgave her the FIRST affair. Back to your alcoholic analogy. How may DWIs should a drunk get before he goes to jail? ONE if the death of a child is involved, because where I live that is manslaughter. Crime and punishment has little to do with forgiveness. Forgiveness is a spiritual thing so that all the negative energy is released and it doesn't dwell and deteriorate the hearts of the transgressed. But where does it say in the Bible that something criminal is just let go? We have to live in society. And that means following the rules of society. The Bible tells us to do that. I am not out to punish her, and I will forgive her for this new A. But she WILL face the consequences. She KNEW them before she made the CHOICE to be with another guy. I was clear with her (in a loving way) during the aftermath of the first one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am also wondering that as you post, is it so that she is hopefully reading it? I think she sure thinks so, and it does kind of seem so.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't take this callously. I don't really care if she is reading it or not. Not that I don't care, but because I am not hiding anything. I have told her how I feel about all the stuff I post. I have told her how I feel about the servant's heart. She doesn't agree with me. But I don't beat her over the head with it to prove my point. I sometimes do when I am angry and make a mistake. But this is not easy. She is having an affair again. And it hurts WORSE than the first one. Because she knows what it is doing to me and the kids because we have been through the first affair. She is choosing that path again. I post to others purely to help others. I am not that calculating that I am trying to send some secret message to her. Heck, I just walk up and tell her. Or write her a card.

After the first affair, it is reasonable that BOTH spouses take baby steps towards each other. Carefully and with the others feelings in mind. Would be nice if we could do that perfectly, but we can't. This is MY opinion, and she would probably disagree. But I took baby steps until I walked out way past the half-way point. She stayed on the opposite shore. She would take a few steps out, then quickly dash back. Then she yanked the precarious bridge out from under me. And I am not doing that again. She has primarily demonstrated untrustworthiness and disregard for my feelings in the face of my (primarily) forgiveness and compassion (and again, I wasn't perfect). But there you have it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember that even though you HAVE taken the high road for so long, You MUST do it with HUMILITY.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would say I tried to take the high road and succeeded most of the time. Not all of the time. I followed the four rules of a successful marriage for months and pretty much got back "I am not ready for that" from her. The Rule of Protection? What does it mean to not be ready for that? There is a characteristic of the WS who seem to be recovering their marriages that I have gleaned from this board. Phases that they go through. Mine did not exhibit any of those traits beyond an occasional glimmer. Her choice. Was I humble? Most of the time. There were many times I faced her anger toward me, her pining over the OM, and I did nothing but offer comfort and support. There were a few times where I got angry back. Was I humble then? No. I was righteously indignant. And it was wrong. And I told her that and would apologize for it usually within days. And back off and give her time. She did something HORRIBLE to me in July. I finally got an apology for that, an admission that it was wrong, in January. And that is the FOG? Sometimes we use the fog as a cop out. When you do something wrong, you apologize. Why is the fog a Carte Blanche to throw basic decency out the window? Yes. There were times I was not humble. But they were the exceptions, and the circumstances I failed under were extreme. And it was MY failure. I owned it. The circumstances were only a reason, NOT an excuse. I learned long ago to own my mistakes. It is important to me. Most people who know me personally see this as one of my strengths.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He and I have not discussed the fact that we are both reading and sometimes posting here, but last night after reading both your and your W's threads, it is NOT a good idea to read eachothers!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I only read my wife's thread when she asked me to. And only the things she asked me to read with her sitting there. I agree with you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOur W has a lot of resentment built up that reminds me of how I have felt.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting you would say that. Why? Why do you have resentment? Joyce Meyer says when you get angry, God is trying to talk to you and you don't want to listen. I think that goes double for resentment. Resentment, IMHO, usually comes from having your b*llsh*t called on you and feeling bad that it was called. It is kind of a defense mechanism. When I feel resentment, I usually try and closely examine what was said to me to spawn the feeling. Know what? There is usually a nugget of truth I can take away in what was said. Most every time RAP has said something to me that I resented, there was something in there that actually had bearing. I have a list of them in my journal. I pray about them and try and work on them frequently.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, I am just trying to make you think, and I know talking through this could help me too.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You did. Haven't been doing enough lately.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lastly, JESUS WOULD STILL TELL YOU TO STAY MARRIED. DON'T GIVE UP.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think so. In fact, He told me back in July that I had done all He asked. I kept going because I wanted to. I asked for His strength and His permission and had a peace about it. Now I have a peace about the divorce. And I haven't given up. I would stay married to her in a heartbeat. But I mean the wife of my youth. The caring, Christian woman who I left when I deployed. That is NOT who I returned home to. No one who personally knows her from before, NO ONE, thinks she is acting in character. We are all very concerned for her and lots of people are praying that she would find her peace. Whatever form that takes. I say that with the utmost sincerity. But I will not sacrifice the family. If she wants to destruct, which she seems bent on, I can't stop it. All I can do is put my head (and the kid's heads) down, hope for the best and pick up the pieces. If there are any left.

Look. She knows the principles of this site. What if I said before I did ANYTHING to stop this process I have started that I needed a no contact letter for this new OM? And she refused? Am I really ending it, or am I the one who is going through the legal motions? I think it's over in her heart already.

NCWalker

I totally agree that only ncwalker can decide whether he has a marriage to try to restore. I am just trying to encourage him to think in that direction. That is what MB should be doing, unless someone's life is in danger. Lets just say enough said unless ncwalker wants to comment

S&R,

I just wanted to add something else. And I may be wrong. You seem to be hung up on the fact that I seem to be a great guy and my wife seems to be a horrible girl.

That is NOT the case. And I don’t think that is the case. Right now, my wife is acting out and doing some horrible things. But that is NOT who she has been for the past 16 years I have known her. She is making some really terrible choices that are uncharacteristic of her.

Am I a great guy? There are some that think so. Those who know me would say I am a man of great skill. That I am a man of compassion. That I am a man of deep feeling. That I have unquestionable integrity. That I am a wonderful father and great with children. Those are the compliments I typically get. And as I said before, it is really just me letting God work through me. I am typically well thought of and respected.

And my wife? Let me tell you this. And I say this honestly, for the 16 years I have been with her (13 of them married to her) THE MOST FREQUENT COMMENT I would get about her is “What did you do to deserve a woman like that?”

She is the truest friend you could ask for. She NEVER denied one of her friends compassion or understanding. In fact, she has a lot of very close friends because of the friend SHE was to them. Many more than I have. Many more than most people do.

She is very intelligent. One of the few people I have met that can hold their own against me. She can converse on the arts, music, politics, religion and philosophy with the best of them.

She has great compassion. She is a prayer warrior and an amazing intercessor. When someone needed prayer, she would doggedly and diligently pray for them, long after most people quit.

She is a well balanced mother. She encourages her children, but is not afraid to discipline them.

She is giving of her time to her neighbors, never asking for anything in return.

She is physically beautiful. I once referred to her as Nicole Kidman’s head on Halle Berry’s body, and that is pretty much it. She is a knockout.

Yes. She made mistakes in the marriage too. And she had her days, like we all do, when she wasn’t so graceful. And she had her idiosyncrasies that bothered me.

But I always, and I mean ALWAYS, considered it to be a blessing to be married to her. Didn’t always act on it, but that is how I felt. Heck, I have been trying to figure out how to be a better husband the whole marriage. You don’t get a manual when you get hitched. Probably should. Many here would probably say similar things about their marriages.

But that is NOT who I came home to from my deployment. She is exhibiting FEW of those traits now. Seeking different friends. She is lost and acting out in a destructive way. She is behaving more like my unruly teenage daughter than my wife. But unfortunately she is NOT my child. So I have no authority to really do anything other than suffer through it. The details as to my decision are my own. You’ll just have to trust that I DO have here interests at heart as well.

Someone put it to me well the other day. It is like rescuing a drowning person who is in a panic. Sometimes their struggles are so great that the rescuer risks being drowned as well. And the rescuer has to back off. Sad when it happens. But sometimes it happens.

NCW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">betrayed wives.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Paugh. RAP hurts...I hurt for her. I wish she was here so I could attempt to comfort her. She has a kindness in her that spoke to me and I miss her.

It is agony to face your mirrors and see what you have done. I'd bet my left big toe that is the WHY RAP feels unwelcome....that mirrors of truth were held up and it was unbearable to her. The mirrors, though, weren't meant to hurt, but to allow her to see where she needed to help herself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In fact, He told me back in July that I had done all He asked. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And this was all that was expected. Jesus tells us when it's over. We know. I believe that with every fiber (string <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) of my being.

- Kimmy

Wow! I love your response! I am printing it out to respond back. Did you grow up in New Orleans? Something you said made me think so. My husband and I met in college (a top 20 univ). I am a Biology major, so I love science. My H and I are both born again Christians. My H also went to an Ivy league business school and I DO feel like he talks down to me during an arguement. That is one thing I have resentment for. WE are working hard though. I look forward to bantering back and forth b/c I think that we may have a lot in common........

Wow! I love your response! I am printing it out to respond back. Did you grow up in New Orleans? Something you said made me think so. My husband and I met in college (a top 20 univ). I am a Biology major, so I love science. My H and I are both born again Christians. My H also went to an Ivy league business school and I DO feel like he talks down to me during an arguement. That is one thing I have resentment for. WE are working hard though. I look forward to bantering back and forth b/c I think that we may have a lot in common........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Someone put it to me well the other day. It is like rescuing a drowning person who is in a panic. Sometimes their struggles are so great that the rescuer risks being drowned as well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the BEST analogy I've ever read. As a former lifeguard I remember actually having to physically hurt someone (by pinching the h-e-double-hockey-sticks out of his pec) in order to stop his thrashing.

RAP may not come to until she is actually wounded more than she is now.

NCWalker:

I have been reading a lot of your post's and have enjoyed the two conversations we have had over the phone. Your Faith in God is so strong that I got off the phone with you and gave my wife a huge Hug and a kiss. You give me things to think about that I naturally would have walked by without giving it a second look.

I am by far NOT ( Edited to add NOT ) INTELLIGENT but I do have common sense and thats what it really is about. I am a soldier at heart, I do not read physic's 101 for fun, I pick up the bible and feel horrible for doing it only in the hour of need instead of everyday like I should.

I wish I could find my way into GODS light and feel the power that you feel in his divine wisdom.


Also in closing I would like you to take a look at Mschluter & Cindy1970 joint thread and tell me what you think. I would love to see some of this wisdom on our thread.

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Mschluter ]</small>

OK here goes!
With regards to turning to affairs when in pain, I did not mean to say that your marriage is all about pain. I meant that with addictions, it is like a bandaid or a crutch, to get through the pains in life. I am so glad to hear that you are not jumping to divorce her. I think that you should leave her for now! She would think you were a wimp if you didn't. As one previously said, she DOES hate herself when she looks in the mirror, or she doesn't recognize herself. Remember, I am the WW in my M. I have only had NC for a few weeks now, and I am feeling like a weight has been lifted. I do not know why now, because I have prayed for God to take away this need of mine to want them both. My FWH has hurt me so much in the past and I have such a fear that he may hurt me again. Frankly, I have trusted no one but myself and God, afterall, NO ONE is perfect right? But I am willing to try to learn to trust and feel "in love" with my H again. Just after this long, I was so sick of being a liar and I can't do it anymore. I feel great just because I have told the truth--the truth will set you free, right? I am rambling so much, sorry!
I LOVED what you said about your wife. Hold on to that! She is different because she is in the grips of her addiction. Is she an adult child of an alcoholic? If so, she has issues relating to that.
I am glad I have you thinking about the "perfect" thing. This is just as it relates to her because everyone here adores you. You give wonderful advice, trust me. I just wish that she had never read any of your postings. It really does sound like she might feel "small" next to you. I just say this for you to work on it, be aware of it!
I totally agree with you about Jesus. He was tough and smart.
Again, I think you are right about being separated, exposing her affair, no contact, if you so choose.
It stinks, it stinks, it stinks that she is having another affair. She needs help, and I hope that she chooses to get some.
I don't agree with your opinion on resentment.
I believe that anger and resentment are secondary emotions to cover up feelings of hurt, sadness, grief and disappointment.
I dont agree with you about Jesus. He would feel sorrow for your suffering, but as fellow Christians, our goal is to become Christ-like. We are practicing in this life for our eternal life. Christ said, what God has joined together, let man not separate. Gods timing is not ours. Be patient--as you have in the past. I am praying for her. I know many are. Has she talked any sense to anyone? Can you say what the status is now?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by scarlet and regretful:
<strong> Honestly, with your attitude towards his WW, it is not a surprise to me that the WW felt so judged. I don't even know these people and I am talking pretty impartially. Certain people sound a little too emotionally involved as I read, and it might be no coincidence that it is betrayed wives. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">S&R, and certain people sound a little too anxious to change the subject, since I have never expressed any "attitude" towards a WW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I would just point out that you are very close to the tail end of your affair and might not tend to be in the most objective frame of mind.

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>