I just got the Tough Love book... have not read it yet... I will probably be reading it when she is in CO.

The problem is I pretty much know that she could care less about me... she is and has stated that the only reason she would stay is for the kids but even that is not a given...

And I am not sure what to think about this...

Edited to take out a reply that was full of DJs against your wife's behavior. Sorry 'bout that.

First of all, you already know. Secondly, being justifiably bitter ain't gonna help.

Hang in there. I can see that you have far vision and are resolute in your purpose. There is no question. This will be tough. But my time here has taught me that the effort is worth it. No matter the outcome.

dewt

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

Unfortunately, some people do not realize they love someone until they are losing that person. Think of it this way- while she is in a fog she will be selfish and cold hearted. So,let's compare it to dieting I know a lot of women who when they are not trying tolose weight and can eat whatever they want do okay, but the second they try to stick to a diet, the seccond they can not have that food & eat up a storm, all ofthe sudden they want the food . They crave it. When she was with you and you thought you had her you took her for granted. When she went to another man and said she no longer wanted you all ofthe sudden you wanted her more than anything in this world. Now you would do anything to keep her. Unfortunately, human nature is to sort of take for granted what you know you have. Right now she nows no matter what that she has you. As long as she thinks she can treat you like dirt, go off and do whatever she wants & you will still be there waiting for her till the day she dies she may stay in that fog. If she thought you were getting strong and somewhere down the road there is a chance she might lose this good man then she might try to hold on to you. You do not have to hold on to something you already have. Look at the least of How To Get Your Spouse to do 180 Degree Turn Around and she what appplies to you. If you chaneg the way you are acting then she may change the way she feels and acts. Read the Dobson book tonight. No matter what she says because she is still lingering around (& it is not for the kids (if it was she would not mention leaving them with you for even a Month) and when it comes down to it it is not just for the money (if she really wanted to she could find some other guy with money) there is a small part of her that has feelings for you. And I know it is not for the kids because you could not pay be money to leave my kids for a whole Month. I am there Mother. I would not leave them for anything.

DH,
A major aspect and error, that so many of we BSs experience is that we simply don’t accept the correct premise when we begin to deal with the problem at hand. You don’t argue about the wrong and right of certain behavior. If simple truth has to be proved then what sense can there be in the process? Why are you debating these issues with your WW? What do you hope to gain? This isn’t about anything other then her determination to do what ever is pleasing to her at the moment and the truth be damned.

You are acting just as unreasonable as she is. You continue to debate her, pushing her further and further away from you by insisting on your rightness and the correctness of the moral imperative that you see as the central issue in this conflict. What you refuse to understand is that she just doesn’t care! Do you get it yet? This is a woman who’s telling you that “God” has spoken to her! And you are trying to convince her of your moral right to defend your marriage?

DH, in situations like this, one doesn’t communicate with the spoken word because to be effective, the spoken word requires that the other party be listening! She isn’t listening! She doesn’t want to hear you! If you want to make her “hear” you then you have to do it in a way that will impact her life and get her attention.

That is why you don’t threaten to expose adultery, you expose it! That’s why you don’t debate the need for NC. You simply explain that for you, this is a requirement of the marriage. That’s why you don’t debate words like love, either in the past, present or future. You show love by treating her lovingly and by behaving with consistent willingness to meet her emotional needs. You don’t tell her that what she’s doing or saying is wrong. You explain how what she says and does makes you feel. And you do all this as long as you can, demanding nothing of her. And then, when her behavior becomes intolerable, you go to what Plan A is really intended to set the stage for; Plan B!

You don’t threaten to leave or throw her out or anything else. You simply do what needs to be done while continuing to wait for her to find her way back from the insanity that has her in its grip. And if Plan B is what it takes for you to stay the course, then that’s what you do. This is not easy or pleasant or for the faint of heart. This is hard and hurtful. But it is a way.

Coach

I hear you... I talked to my counselor today... and showed him the actual letters... he was shocked... I am now waiting his counsel... we are both going to a joint session in a week and a half when she gets home from CO... than all this will start to be dealt with... I have made up my mind... the people that should know will know... But I want to do it out of the right motive and at the right time... I am just trying to be sensitive and cautious...

I know I don't owe her because of how she has treated me... but I still feel love and respect for her through these tough times...

Maybe I am warped and twisted... but I do want to be right and acceptable in front of my God...

P.S. Both of our counselors are seeking outside higher counseling on this matter... they see a volatile, but fragile road ahead... and they want to dot their i's and cross their t's on this one...

Is OM married?

single college guy... 24 or so... he is our pastors son... she says I only want to talk to people about the relationship to mark them with a scarlet letter...

but I say they need to know to prevent something else like this happening again... and to keep you two accountable to people that can make a difference...

They are his spiritual authority... and they need to know... period!

I will not keep this lie on my shoulders...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by devastatedhubby:
he is our pastors son</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bingo!

Expose to the congregation.

She knows I can make it on my own no problem... that is a sore subject... she tells me it is so unfair that I can just go on in life without her because I am so independent and can do anything... and she feels she can do nothing... she doesn't know how to live by herself and take care of life... she feels less than and stupid because she never had to live on her own and learn to live life...

Read this over and over, as it explains exactly why your WW feels "entitled" to have her A.

Begin filling her needs by "encouraging" her to become more independent, but by pursuing her need for an "identity" in a way not harmful to your marriage.

JMHO

SD

let me tell you SD.. that I am and have tried to encourage her to be independent and tell her that she can be her own self... but not at our marriages expense... that I cannot let this improper relationship be...

I have tried to tell her that the two things are not the same... that she can become herself in or out of our marriage... that I am not the one stopping her from finding herself... it is just that she now defines herself by this OM... and now she thinks that she has to give up this newfound self...

She is not seeing that what she has become is not who she really is or wants to be... if she saw that she had become a liar and a cheat... then I do not think that she would like that newfound person... her perception of self is really warped... and she needs help and guidance to find it...

I have tried to look at this little vacation to CO this week and the up and coming controlled separation as a way to show her that I want her to become independent... but I am not sure that her motives are anything other that to get out of the house and see OM and to decide if she can make it on her own... we will see...

Just curious, did you read Tough Love? If so, what did you think? Do you think it could help your marriage?

I am about half way through it... sounds good...she called me today... she was seeing if I had gone to counseling... and I told her yes... then she said she was ready for the OM issue to blow up... and I said I wasn't trying to get it to blow up... and then she said she wanted to get that out on the table so others can see that she is not saying she didn't do anything wrong... but that she will not let me control her for the rest of her life... and tell her she can't be friends with him someday...

And then after it has blown up she can say everyone knows now... and now I can make my decision based on the things of the past before OM...

It is kinda like she is looking for me to act out and make a big deal about OM... so she can say that is my focus and that I will not see that it is that she never loved me and I cannot handle that...

She says that she cannot face the rest of her life forcing herself to love me... so she has a decision to make... either she is going to stay in it for the kids... or leave for herself and the kids... she says that she has read that staying for the kids only is not good/healthy for them either... because of how she will feel and act if she stays...

I don't know... I told her that I cannot make her stay and that I will deal with whatever I am handed...

I am ready for something to happen...

The thursday she gets back she has counseling... she told me she will be giving her lady a little more vivid detail... it is basically covering her butt because she was understating last session... and hopefully her counselor can see what is really going on...

We will see...

I am ready to face the music that is to come:-)

I have set her free in my mind... and pretty much told her that she is free to make her decision...

I have one question... I saw a book poisted around here... about staying in the relationship for the kids sake... it was written by joshua something...

Any pointers on what the book title is would be great!

"It is kinda like she is looking for me to act out and make a big deal about OM... so she can say that is my focus and that I will not see that it is that she never loved me and I cannot handle that..."

I completely agree with that. It seems llike she is liking the drama, extra attention, seeing you get upset, & seeing how much you care even though she is stating she does not care at all. To me it seems like she just wants to push your buttins and feel sorry for herself. I hope she comes out of the fog soon.

I have not heard of the other book, but it sounds interesting.

Hang In There & Stay Storong,
Stormy

Well I found the book... but found a few reviews and they state that it is to basically live two differnt lives... it is not a marriage per say... doesn't sound like it is biblically founded in any way... the book is called:

Imperfect Harmony: How to Stay Married for the Sake of Your Children and Still Be Happy
by Joshua Coleman

Amazon has a few pages of it online...

Not quite what I was looking for...

She mentioned to me that she thinks that it is better for all... for her to leave the marriage because she read somewhere that it was not healthy for anyone to stay just for the kids...

So I thought I had seen some christian based books that tell why a marriage should stay together and how it CAN work... for the kids and everyones sake... but she is only interested in the kids sake type of stuff right now...

She also said today that she cared for me as a person and she cannot lead me on and not give me the things I need as a husband ...if we move forward... because of how she feels she made a wrong decision at 19 when we got married and because she can't maker herself love me after all this stuff...

fun stuff!

To me to say-- I made the wrong decision to marry you, stay with you, & have kids with you is crazy! The point is she made that decision so she should try to be positive and give your marriage a chance. I wish she would open her heart back up to God. If she had a close & strong relationship with Christ it is impossible for me to see how she could continue to behave and act like this. I will continue to keep both of you in my prayers.

I can use and appreciate all the prayer I can get... she is messed up beyond belief... I can only hope and pray that God can and will open up her eyes... before it is too late... and I need to move on...

Either way... God will provide a wife for me that loves me and I will love in return... freely and completely...

I hope for the kids sake it is her!

I am on about page 200 of the Love Must be Tough book... and I am feeling guilty and like it is my fault that I did not address this and escalate their relationship very early on... I did confront her, OM, his mother the pastors wife... and they all told me I was paranoid and that they had no bad intentions... so I was not aware at the time that I should have stuck to my guns... I thought that my spiritual leader would have my best interests in mind... and now we are here in this big mess...

Because I did not stand up for myself and my marriage...

I hope all is not lost...

I still know God has a plan... I just hope I can live with the plan...

I am at a crossroad...

When she gets back we go to counseling to discuss Controlled Separation... everything about Plan B/ Tough love say not to work with her and agree to helping her separate...

but this CS book is really what she thinks is going to help her make up her mind to stay or not... the space she needs

but the book says that if I the one who does not want out... is not cooperative... than I do not have the love for her that I should... and that I am being selfish... by not letting her go find out what she needs to do... it even goes as far as to say I should move out even though I am not the one who wants out of the family... because it would be best for the kids to not disrupt their lives...

I am torn...

Comments please?????

bump...