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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Gimble, I can take the sex drive in hand if you know what I mean. As far as the boss he is new and I have never met him, not sure how to approach this either. I am sure, still, that they have never met.
FL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good deal. Control the drive. Lose the blankets. Make it a point for her to decide. You can't trick her into having sex with you. Let her have the couch if she must. Make that HER decision. Life is all about choices. Let her choices be obvious, good and bad. You are supposed to be making yours obvious. That is what steely-eyed heros do.
You are choosing marriage instead of divorce.
You are choosing to be a good father to your son.
You are choosing to address your marital issues head on.
I hope that you are still able to monitor her communication with the other man.
If the trip to Detroit firms up, it may be time to expose to her boss, but you will want to bounce any decision like that off of others here, especially WAT.
It is tough being the good guy and warrior at the same time. You are doing it well, FogLight.
Gimble
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Thanks Gimble. WW is unaware that I have her new password to her cell phone. The only bad part is for example: February call log was not available until March 2nd. So it will be April before I can see March phone log.
WAT any comments??
FL
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Geez FL, you made me blush! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
I am so glad to hear you are making progress! At least you are under the same roof... I haven't got that far again, since true NC was established!
I agree bout the STDs, but if you have already had SF then you may have already been exposed... you might want to get screened. I guess it is just my suspicious mind lately, but how likely is it that she is willing to risk it all for "just" a EA?!
Praying for you, too!
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Hi FL - I have nothing to add. Good advice by the others. Remember - I have ZERO experience with anything approaching recovery or reconnecting.
About the business trip, don't place any stock in confirming OM doesn't have a reservation at the same hotel. He could be using a different name, a different hotel, or just sharing your wife's room.
About exposing to her boss - this isn't a workplace affair, right? I do not see a compelling reason to expose to her boss unless there is a workplace tie in or unless he is a personal friend of both of you.
WAT
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Gimble OM was a former CO Worker but, worked out of corporate in another state. They worked in the same department and had to interact alot on the phone & email, that is how it started. They had worked together for about a year, the EA deveoped from that relationship. I do not know WW's new boss, I have never met him. So I don't think that will be of any benefit.
Tx-RN thanks for the advice. BTW you live in the same state OM lives in can you go punch him in the nose for me?
FL
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Gimble OM was a former CO Worker but, worked out of corporate in another state. They worked in the same department and had to interact alot on the phone & email, that is how it started. They had worked together for about a year, the EA deveoped from that relationship. I do not know WW's new boss, I have never met him. So I don't think that will be of any benefit.
FL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay. Does other man still work for the same company as your wife?
Don't write off her boss. If nothing else, you may need to ask for his help.
Has your wife admitted the affair yet or committed herself to the marriage? If the answer to that is no, then I don't want you to consider yourself in recovery or reconnected yet. You are still in plan A.
Are you clear as to your goals in plan A? What are they (short list)?
Gimble
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Okay. Does other man still work for the same company as your wife? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not any longer. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has your wife admitted the affair yet or committed herself to the marriage? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has admitted to the affair via email, but not verbally committed to the marriage. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are you clear as to your goals in plan A? What are they (short list)? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Improve 1 Affection 2 Conversation 3 More time with DS 4 More help around the house 5 HNHN cd 6 LB book Any suggestions from others? FL
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I agree with Gimble if they work for the same company. What kind of company is this? I ask to see if the type of business would be reasonably sensitive to infidelity. Some aren't.
I also agree that you're not in recovery yet. My reference to this was simply a comparison of where you are currently to where I never got - even if it's not "recovery" by definition, I have little advice to offer as I have no experience.
WAT
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Okay. Does other man still work for the same company as your wife? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not any longer. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has your wife admitted the affair yet or committed herself to the marriage? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has admitted to the affair via email, but not verbally committed to the marriage. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are you clear as to your goals in plan A? What are they (short list)? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Improve 1 Affection 2 Conversation 3 More time with DS 4 More help around the house 5 HNHN cd 6 LB book Any suggestions from others? FL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please go and read (or re-read) this MB Link Until your wife is done with the other man, your self improvements that are designed to meet her emotional needs are mostly a waste of time. What you need to be showing her (actions), is the man, and the marriage she is/was about to give up. No doormat behavior. Just be a good strong, upright and forthright man, dedicated to his wife, marriage, and son. Dr. Harley states: "Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover." Here is the full text about plan A/B Gimble
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Gimble, I read both links in your last post. I have not brought up the A in some time. The last time I encouraged WW to break contact WW said she didn't think she could. I am not a good negotiator at all! Not even sure where to start?
Would it be to express to WW that I will meet the emotional needs meet by OM? This I have expressed.
I have also expressed the hurt to myself and DS.
Not sure where to go from here. I should receive SAA tomorrow for continued reading. Please Advise.
FL
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Gimble, I read both links in your last post. I have not brought up the A in some time. The last time I encouraged WW to break contact WW said she didn't think she could. I am not a good negotiator at all! Not even sure where to start?
Would it be to express to WW that I will meet the emotional needs meet by OM? This I have expressed.
I have also expressed the hurt to myself and DS.
Not sure where to go from here. I should receive SAA tomorrow for continued reading. Please Advise.
FL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Those particular needs you do try to meet, however, I wouldn't express that to your wife yet. I don't think she would see it the way you intend it, but more than likely as a state of weakness in you, in her current state of mind.
I can give you some advice, but I want to get others, especially the ladies, to comment first.
Pepperband, Orchid, MelodyLane, Etc.. Comments please for FogLight.
Gimble
<small>[ March 03, 2005, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Gimble ]</small>
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Gimble, Also this is a "stupid" question. What constitutes being a doormat???
FL
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Gimble, Also this is a "stupid" question. What constitutes being a doormat???
FL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are no stupid questions, only unasked ones.
A doormat is to wipe your feet on. It collects dirt and trash from the shoes of the person wiping on it.
In the real world, if your wife is treating you unfairly, you call her on it. It should be loving and gentle, but you call her on bad behavior.
That does NOT mean that you chase her around telling her what a bad person she is.
It also does NOT mean that she can treat you with disrespect.
Here are some examples of doormat behavior, some of them taken from actual instances (as I remember them) on this bulletin board.
Wife is spending all day talking to other man on the cell phone. As a doormat, you do nothing, say nothing and hope that she stops.
Wife is spending son's college fund on gifts for the other man. As a doormat. you say nothing, do nothing and hope that it stops.
Wife loans your car to other man since his is broken. As a doormat, you do nothing, say nothing and hope that it will stop.
Wife tells you that you are worthless and that other man is twice the man you are. As a doormat, you go and clean the house.
So, how would you handle those situations correctly? What would the steely-eyed hero do?
Gimble
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Gimble I can safely say WW has not even went there on what you posted. Quite the contrary, WW thanks me for everything I do for her and even states that I am a very good father.
Go Figure!
FL
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Gimble I can safely say WW has not even went there on what you posted. Quite the contrary, WW thanks me for everything I do for her and even states that I am a very good father.
Go Figure!
FL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is good. You can build on respect.
What about her points of resentment. Do you know why she started up with other man? Don't ask her. Speculate.
Gimble
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"Tx-RN thanks for the advice. BTW you live in the same state OM lives in can you go punch him in the nose for me?"Well if ya mean Texas, sorry... contrary to popular belief, the Tx stands for transplant... I work with transplant patients. But, I am in the South and have been dying to beat the he** outta someone w/ a Y chromosome, so lemme at him!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
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Emails from this morning:
WW: "You really shouldn't love me - I'm not a good person"
My reply: "Please explain"
WW: "You know - OP"
My Reply: "WW, You have not yet reached the point of no return. I forgive you
because I know that I contributed to this crisis we are in. I love you".
WW: "None of this is your fault - It's all my fault - and I am a bad person -
please accept that - you deserve a lot better! You should move on".
I didn't reply
WW: "I feel guilty every time we touch"
My Reply: "You know in your heart what to do, let me help you".
FL
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WW: "I don't know in my heart what to do - that's the problem"
My reply: "Just remember, I truly forgive you and I love you. I am here for you like I always have been".
WW: "Are you trying to make me feel worse"
My reply: "No not at all. Just telling you how I feel".
I hope I'm not blowing it friends
FL
<small>[ March 04, 2005, 06:08 AM: Message edited by: FogLight ]</small>
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Gimble, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What about her points of resentment. Do you know why she started up with other man? Don't ask her. Speculate </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Resentment: I was cold toward her, didn't show love etc. Lack of affection & conversation it think. OM is providing that. They worked together on the phone for about 1 year and has grown on her and is meeting these needs that I was not. My assesment, FL
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Regarding her e-mails:
Case 1: she's sincere and is genuinely confused.
I suggest you reply something to the effect, "I understand what you're saying. From what I've read, it's normal for people in our situation to be confused and have doubts about what's to come. Very normal. A good counselor can help us sort this out."
Case 2: she's zooming you and is being manipulative - she wants you to push her away so she can blame you for everything.
I suggest you reply something to the effect, "Do your frontal lobes hurt? Those aliens really got to you, huh?"
OK, seriously, I suggest you treat her the same way for either case - just keep in mind that she may not be sincere and is still being devious.
Perhaps Suz can offer more. Remember, I'm a novice here.
WAT
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