Ok here is an update on my story. FWW and I doing pretty good. I think we are moving much faster than many other couples here and that's in part to my wonderful FWW. She has mantained NC and is very caring an loving towards me.
A couple of weeks ago we had our first A talk, I asked questions and when she started feeling I was judging her we decided to stop. Yesterday we had our second A talk. I had prepared a calendar with all the events (e-mails, trips, etc) that I could gather to help me organize my questions. So when she got home I told her that I wanted to talk. She was not happy about it but she knew that if it wasn't at that time then it would be at some other one. I started asking how the first A and how it turn into a PA. She said that they went to a hotel but then they could have intercourse because he couldn't perform. She said that after that they didn't try again even thou she wanted it. When I asked her about her second A she said that after going out with her XBF they had oral sex in the car and that was it. I asked her if he had and orgasm and she said no. Then I told her that I didn't believe her. She again said that nothing else happened. So then I remembered that when I asked her if she had used protection with OM she said yes, I told her this and then se admitted that after they went to a motel and had SF there, but only that time.

But this is not what is bugging me. She was not a virgin when I met her. She had sex with multiple parterns b4 me (that is not my case) and I'm pretty sure that she has done more things with them and had more enjoyment than with me. So the fact that she did what she did if your really think about it is not such a big deal. I told her that I would love her no matter what and that I wouldn;t leave her. I tried to show her that I didn't find her repulsive by kissing her and showing her that I still can get aroused by her. What is bugging me is that I feel that she is not being completly honest with me. She tried to hide the fact that she had gone to a hotel with XBF. I don't know why. I want her to be completly open with me but I don't know how. I try to give her a safe enviorement to talk and I tell her that I will forgive her everything, but I only need to know what I'm forgiving her for. Is it to early to have this kind of talks? To late? Should I even bother? Thanks for listening.

I am in the same situation as you are, Me and my FWW are now in somewhat of a recovery, we even have a joint thread on Mb that we use to communicate on. My Fww had an A with an XBf and also performed oral on him in his car but he had an orgasm. She had Sf with him twice and the second time they did not finish.. I will read your story and get back to you. just hang in there. I just wanted to let you know I am here and will try to help you understand the honesty part..It's hard but it can be done...Give me an hour and I will write back to you..

Mschluter,

Take your time, the story is looooooooooooooooong. Thanks.

Hi there,

You guys are in recovery, right? I believe for recovery to be possible, you must cut out all that talk about the A. I know thats hard. If you truly love her and made a decision to stay with her, does it matter what she did.

I know there is a breach of trust and you want answers. I just do not feel the answers will help your journey to recovery.

Show forgiveness by not tormenting your fww with these brutal questions, otherwise....

just imho-

Survived BS:

I disagree with your comment..

I for one have found peace with my FWW now that she has been 100% honest with me. I don not pretend that every BS should know everything..

But if we feel we can handle it then we should know everything...

Secrets are not good for any Marriage..Read my FWW post's and you will find a woman who feels better now that she has told me everything ( In DEtail ) and feels stronger about our recovery then she ever did, she has told me that what made her want out was the secrets, she feared me finding out..

JMHO....

Not go to my thread where I ask how long it took for the WS to talk about the A. Racer had a good answer -and others as well. It was said in there that SH -adviced WS to tell all instead of little bits at a time. So that it is not like D-Day over and over.

SBS,

I'd like to think that we are in recovery. We are trying to make each other happy but I still have questions in my head and I feel I have to know so that I can forgive her completly. As I said b4 I believe I can forgive her anything but I need to know what I'm forgiving. Also I agree with you in the fact that the questions are more hurtfull to her than for me to hear the answers, so I really have my doubts about a third A talk. Guess I will wait and see if my head can resolve my issues alone. But what my point was (sorry if I didn't make it clear) is that I feel that she is not being honest with me. I would rather get a "I don't want to answer that question" than a lie. I just wanted some feed back on why she would keep trying to hide things from me. Is it because she is hurting and she feels guilty? I think yes, and if she tells me about it then maybe I can help her feel better.

PS: I agree we have to let go at some point, but I just want to know want I'm letting go.


Thanks for your reply.

<small>[ March 03, 2005, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: notsosadman28 ]</small>

Once Cindy1970 came clean and told me everything and I mean everything, she felt so much better, she felt stronger and more in control. She started working harder on the M.

We are only about five days into true recovery but I feel stronger and more aware. I do not ask her any questions about the A anymore because I know everything. I have not forgiven her yet and she understands that takes time..and it will for you as well..

FWIW, I'm an FWW. My H never asked for that level of detail in any of our A talks. The A is over, and he realizes that. Instead of concentrating on all the sordid details of when, where, how long, positions, type of act, who O'ed, who didn't O, brand/size/color of protection, etc. etc., we are concentrating on what needs to be done to recover: What are our needs, and what needs to be done to meet those needs. Our MC is helping us along.

The next tidbit doesn't come from my own experience; it comes from something I read from another poster here. Careful about asking too many questions - you might not like the answers. One poster here reassured her H repeatedly that she could handle whatever he told her, he was safe, she only wanted the truth, etc. He admitted to one "lie by omission," an unwanted, unsolicited contact attempt by FOW from more than a year ago, and now the FBS can't get past it.

Notsosad, if you are concerned you could do more to satisfy her sexually, then you need to raise that topic, so to speak. Don't ask me how. Are you in MC? That night help.

GBH,

I understand your concern about the level of details, I just wanted to know when and where SF happened. She then told me that XBF and her only had oral sex in the car and nothing else. I didn't believe the nothing else part so I had to ask more questions (like if he had an orgasm). When she finally told me that they went to a hotel afterwards then I didn't ask for any details. I really don't care what type of sex they had.

About my performance I can tell you that I do have some issues. When we started dating my FWW told me about her past experiences with her XBF (now OM) and some other guys. On the other hand she was the only woman I had sex with and I felt a lot of preassure. I even lied to her and told her that I was not a virgin. After some time I felt so guilty about lying her that I told her the truth. After that I started having sexual problems and I ended up being a premature ejaculator. We talked about that issue many times and she wanted me to go to a doctor I though that I only need time. Well time is what I got but I didn't improve. Sex became a pain for her and thus less frequent. Which only made matters worse. After D-day I went to see a psychologist because I was being mean to everyone and my father was affraid I might be neurotic as he is. So I went and told him everything that was happening to me. So he got me on AD, which made me more emotionally stable. But on the even better side AD have sexual side effect, in this case they delay ejaculation, so things are getting a lot better in that departement too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I still need a lot of practice but hey no problem with that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
But let me make this clear again. I have no particualr problem with her having oral sex or any other type of sex since she already did it all b4 she met me, I've learned my lesson and I know my limitations, there is no reason why I should be the best sex she ever had. I'll live happy by know that she loves me the most.

Realtor,

I'm taking the liberty of copying Racer's reply in my thread so more people see it, hope you and Racer don't mind.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Realtor, I hope you don't mind a FWS replying. In the first few days I DID "Sugar coat" and skirt issues and details. Then we entered counseling with SH. He advised my W to give me a "safe haven" to tell all promising not to LB. Then he advised me to get it ALL out at once so she didn't have to go through it over and over. I took his advice and told it all at once (about 10 days after dday). I did forget little things that popped up over the next few days but no big revelations. After that few days we stopped talking about it and have been in great recovery ever since.

It's in EVERYBODY'S best interest to just get it done once and for all.

When I was talking to SH about why all details should be told, he replied: Because most of the time her imagination is worse than reality. That ended up being true. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with Racer 100%.

A talks are painful, even more painful to the WS than to the BS. In our minds we probably have the worst case scenarios, and knowing how things really were might even bring some peace in that aspect. On the other hand the WS might have the illusion that the BS has some nice image about them and that the truth about the A will destroy the mirage. On top of that add the shame and guilt and you have a dagger going through your WS heart.
I hope she forgives me for putting her through hell yesterday and that she can open completly to me. I will prepare something nice for when she comes home tonight, any suggestions?

notsosadman28 :


Well It took me awhile but I read your story and all the answers that came with it. My first concern is your feelings that you are poor in bed.

Intimacy comes in many forms and over time it is not about how you perform or how long but how much Love you put into it. My Fww had SF 1 1/2 times with XBF ( OM ) and he never gave her the big O but she felt he was better because of how she felt about him, You get what I mean?

My second concern is you believe your FWW is now all done with her A's, You really need to be careful because you gave her all the cards you were holding and told her exactly how you found out, she may have just found another way to keep this going. Don't get Paranoid, But it's actions not words that you should believe, She should write this NCL with your help and you mailing it reagardless.

Third you Love your wife very much and you don't seem like you need a lot of information or details Like I did. Towards the end I told my FWW it was not the A that upset me but the lies and details she was keeping from me. All in one sitting she told me everything, we both cried, we both laughed ( yes Laughed ) and we both felt so much better. Later that night my wife posted on MB and she was amazed at the support she got from everyone.

You need to keep investiagting and this time do not tell her anything. It took my wife 7 months to finally realize I had a PI following and watching her every move.

Your FWW sounds like a wonderful person who needs your support and I also read on your story that you ordered some books, thats awesome, Your now saying that FWW does not want the M this leads me to believe she is either still in the A or going through hard withdrawals and this could very well be the case, But I will bet if you take a hard look inside your own self your gut insticts will tell you something is not right. Go with that feeling.

I feel you can save your marriage but that it will take time and effort on your part, yes your part. Until she kills the A's all the work lays on your shoulders my friend, and I mean all of it. So keep reading your thread and keep venting on here, do not get upset with her. Just be the best Husband and Friend you can be. Start working out, spend more time with her, Buy her something special.

I also noticed in my Situation that once I focused on me and stopped telling her I love Her she came back to me, Once I went to Plan B she really came back hard.

Do not give up on your FWW but you may want to re-think the FWW part, she may still be WW. And this is only something you will truly feel and know.

See if she will start posting on here, start a joint thread like me and Cindy1970 did. It has been a huge help to us. And we do not read each others vent threads, those are one rule of privacy we do not break. She has given me all of her passwords, email accounts, phone pass, even her ATM pass ( Not that I needed it ) LOL

My Fww was also in an A within an A, She was talking to a much younger man then her but it was only on the phone and they only talked four or five times, She had no Problem sending him packing. And in my case, The OM was just as tired of the A as she was getting.

I was like a pit bull on that poor guy, LOL...

OM even called the police on me a few times but then I realized I needed to make me a beter me and I did.

I wish you the best of luck and I am here if you need to talk..

Schluter@Frontiernet.net

I came in because I saw a call asking for a FWS. Imagine my surprise when I found out I have already been here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Doe's this mean somebody actually got something from one of my posts? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Only thing I can add is that it's an individual thing. If the BS wants all the info, they deserve the whole truth, and yes, even down to the brand of condom if they so desire!

If a BS is happy to NOT hear the details then that's OK too.

This aspect of recovery is all about the BS. Let them choose the information they want and give it to them. Anything less is only further insult and almost continues the A. After all, the A is about lies and secrets isn't it?

We are dealing with a BS who had details "sugar coated" on the recovery board this very day. They were in wonderful recovery and almost at a breakthrough when she found more lies. They are back to square one, maybe worse.

Notsosadman, print this thread for your FWW for me.

RX

Mschluter,


Thanks for your reply and for taking the time to read my post. I know that is long.

Intimacy comes in many forms and over time it is not about how you perform or how long but how much Love you put into it. My Fww had SF 1 1/2 times with XBF ( OM ) and he never gave her the big O but she felt he was better because of how she felt about him, You get what I mean?

I'm no expert when it comes to sex. I knew it back then and I know it now. The difference is that this time I wont let it affect me. B4 I was so worried about my performance that it only made matters worst. I don't have to compete with her past lovers, I don't have to last longer than them and do all the things they did. I just have to make sure she loves me now and not them, and give my best effort every time. Besides the AD are doing wonders. Still I appreciate any more (lots of) advice in this area <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

My second concern is you believe your FWW is now all done with her A's, You really need to be careful because you gave her all the cards you were holding and told her exactly how you found out, she may have just found another way to keep this going. Don't get Paranoid, But it's actions not words that you should believe, She should write this NCL with your help and you mailing it reagardless.

I do believe the A are over, still I'm very carefull with every movement she makes. The only time she was out of sight was when she came back to the US first. When I got back she said that OM called her and they agreed the A had to end. Then she told me that they met once in a hallway in school and only said hi. With respect to the second OM she told me that aftair D-day she talked to him and also agreed to end the A. I would like her to write the NC but I can't force her to do it. I know that words are only that and actions are what counts, so I base my beliefe that the A are over on the love and care she shows for me. Also first OM has a LOT (wife, kids, job) to loose if A is exposed so I think he has no intention of following it up. Second OM (XBF) is a scum bag but right now he is 9000 miles away and has no money to even pay for an international call. Another action that favors her is the fact that she didn't go back to her home town for x-mas were she could have meet XBF if she wanted. Also I hacked XBF email account and she didn't write to him (I told her this last week). I know I probably shouldn't tell her every method I have to gather info but I feel like I have to tell her the truth in order for her to open up to me.

Your now saying that FWW does not want the M this leads me to believe she is either still in the A or going through hard withdrawals and this could very well be the case, But I will bet if you take a hard look inside your own self your gut insticts will tell you something is not right. Go with that feeling.

When did I say that she doesn't want the M (by M I understand marriage)? I never had the intention of saying that. I think that she choose to work on the marriage since D-day, she might have made some mistakes (no NCL, hidding things), but hey, we are all humans.

Still I can't say for sure that the A are 100% over. I want to believe it and lots of evidence points in that direction, but then again she is still hidding things about the A (she only admitted to going to motel after I found an inconsistency in her story) and that doesn't help me to regain my trust in her. That's why I started this thread, I wanted to know why a FWW would lie about A, is it possible that she feel so guilty or wants to protect me and/or her from more pain? Or is it that she lie because the A are not over and they are still in contact? I'm more inclined to the first option.


About hurting OM I thought it to. With 100 U$S I can probably get a couple of guys to bit the crap out of XBF in my home country, but I have to be the better man and don't sink to his level. With respect to hurting the first OM that lives in the US I thought about exposing the A as a revenge and making sure he ends up in the street. But I didn't do because it might back fire, having something to loose is a good incetinve to keep him away from my W. Right now I don't do it also because FWW asked me not to do it and I will respect her wishes.

Thanks again for your advice and time. I'll try to post in your threads too. BTW, any idea on how I can surprise her when she comes back from work tonight? I have 6 hours and counting ...

Personally, part of my reasoning for wanting answers has to do with trust, not forgiveness. I think I've already forgiven H for the A, but for me, the biggest thing lost because of the A is trust. I have always been a very trusting person, not ever jealous at all. I don't want to be who I am right now, which is extremely jealous and very untrusting, so I feel I need to ask questions and be answered honestly to help build that trust back. Some of my questions I don't know the answer to and some I do, so I know when WH lies. Some of the answers might hurt me initially, but restoring trust by being honest is the lasting impact.

Just figured I'd throw in my 2 cents.

NotToMe :

AMEN... I agree

Racer,

Thanks for your help. I agree that the degree of details is case dependent. (I think) I don't need to know every gory detail, but if she wants to tell them to me I'm all ears. Again I insist that I got into the details because I found her story hard to believe so I had to find the inconsistency (which I did). Every lie I discover makes me question everything I know. But every lie she unveils makes me belive more in her.

About printing this thread to her, I don't want her to feel preasured any more than she already is. She knows that I'm posting in this forum and she can read it when ever she wants, I have no problem with it. I even asked her to read my first post b4 I posted it. I want to be as open as I can. May be in some near future she will post here, I'd like that but if she doesn't no harm done.

Thanks again.

NotToMe,

I requiere knowledge to forgive, I can't forgive someone who comes and tells me "hey I did something wrong that hurts you a lot" without knowing what was done. But you are right on the money (a lot more than 2 cents) about building trust. I was not a jealous person either, I even help OM with his statistics home work!!! And didn't mind him sending personal emails to my W. Also there was an incident in which someone, who was impersonating me, sent an email to a friend (classmate) of my W saying that I he should stop sending her emails because I could read them. When my W asked me if it was me I laughed and told her that I didn't do it but I could if I wanted, but I had no reason for it. Now I believe it was the first OM that sent that e-mail because it was right after they tried to have SF for the first time. In this case knowing the truth helps me put things into perspective too because I was worried about that email. The funny part of the story is that my wife didn't take it very seriously either because she kept using that e-mail account not to contact her friend but the OM.
Long story short, I'm no a jealous guy like I never thought I would be. Is it good? Is it bad? I dont know', so far I don't mind.


PS: thanks for posting!!!!

<small>[ March 03, 2005, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: notsosadman28 ]</small>