caren,

Who are you?

I read in your post about your counselor asking who you were, and you define yourself as who you are for your kids and H.

Been there, done that, been in counseling for that.

Oh, hon, you need to find out who you are and what you want.

My counselor asked me, who is Miss M? And we went in search of Miss M. She asked me who are you, what do you want, what do you what to do, who do you want to be, and I had no answers for her. I did not know who I was. I do now.

Now is your time to find out who you are, what you want to do, what you want from cause I think he (WS) needs to know. I think he knows who ow is. Do you?

Find out. Be wise as a snake and as innocent as a dove. Use the knowledge. don't LB. Use it to your advantage. And while you are at it, make those kids start picking up and doing what they need to. He ain't there, so fix it up!

Focus hon. Read that Bible. Find out what the Lord wants you to do. You are a Christian, right? So you could read your Bible and have the power of Almighty God on your side. And there is NONE more powerful.

Let the Lord spank you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> and lead you. You have a wonderful heart.

Trust in God and he will bless you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Most of all, step back, don't react, think about what is healthiest for your marriage, you and your kids. Obey the Lord. Be obedient and you will be blessed. If you want scripture, just ask, I will be happy to provide.

Okay, I'm done. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>

Interesting. I recommended this to Caren on her other thread before reading this.

I had your same thoughts about her.

Are you listening Caren?

Yes, I am listening. I just don't know where to begin, everyone says to find myself, but no one can tell me how to even begin.

I am going to do what the counselor suggested, and maybe that's a beginning point, but where do I go from there. I don't know who I am, I really don't. And I realize that's not healthy, and I want to be able to answer that question, because I realize I won't be whole until I do.

I am spinning my wheels all the time, and accomplishing nothing. If I knew who I was, I could better define my M and what I needed from my H and my M.....but, for now, I haven't a clue.

So, I would accept any suggestions into how exactly I go about finding ME.

-Caren

Hi Caren,

Have you taken the REI (Recreational Enjoyment Inventory)?
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4505_rei.html

It might be a good place for you to start exploring who you are. Honestly consider if the activities interest you, w/o considering anyone else, the money it would take to do them, whether or not you've ever done them before. Don't think "Oh, H likes that. I want to like what he likes or do things w/ him, so I'll check it as something I'm interested in."

And if there are things listed there that pique your interest but you've never done them, add them to your "Things to do in Plan B, to keep me away from monitoring the # of phone calls my insane, fog-laden, can't make a rational decision WH is making to me". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

There are tons of personal assessment tools out there that will help you explore yourself. And you constantly get to re-define who you are anyway. Just don't lose your spirit--it's your best characteristic!

Hugs and prayers,
Jenny

Caren,

You know what will probably help more than any recreational activity?

[And I say this as one who felt loss of self during Hs fog period..I thin it very common, as being on intimate terms with someone who is very self consumed can be very consuming..even worse if you have since the edge of childhood orbited his world rather than created your own gravity <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ]

Emotional honesty. With yourself, with others.

That's what worked for me. If you like the idea we can talk about it more.

Noodle

Thank you Jenny....I will check that out...it's as good a starting place as any, I appreciate the help.

Noodle-

Expand on that please, what do you mean. I find it very hard to even tell what emotion I am feeling most of the time, they are working with me on that one in group.

Here's a few for instances:

My counselor started crying in group, because she is genuinely worried about me....I had no idea what I should be feeling about that, I just sort of looked at her blankly, I felt nothing but confused by it.

Yesterday in group, there was a woman there that hears voices, and was talking about how it is so bad that she has trouble driving, she's actually gone up on the curb, etc a few times, and it scares her. Most of the people in the group were rushing to give her suggestions (Not allowed btw) and telling her how proud they are of the work she's done.....the counselor re-directs and says "you are all trying to help her, but how does it make you feel when she says that??? It makes you feel powerless, doesn't it?" I was staying out of it, but it eventually worked it's way to me, and I said "I don't feel anything about her saying that. I know I should, but I don't. It worries me that I don't feel scared for her, or even scared that she may hurt someone else. How am I supposed to feel about it? It doesn't make me feel powerless, it doesn't make me FEEL anything.

Okay now here's one that wasn't about group. If someone were to give me a present, even if I liked the present and it's something I have ALWAYS wanted, I sit there feeling stupid, not knowing what to say. I know what I'm supposed to say, so that's what I go with, fake sincerity and a forced "Oh, thank you I really like it". But I am SURE I look like I don't even appreciate it. I have felt that way my entire life, I don't know what to feel in those situations. I even asked my WH about that recently, I said "When you would give me something, did you feel like I appreciated it?" He said "No, not really" I said "okay, well I always did, I just don't know how to show that".

Noodle I would love to have someone at least try to explain that to me. Everyone tells me to just *feel* my emotions, and I really try, I just don't get it. They say, it's okay to be sad, and I know it is, and they tell me to just sit with the feeling, okay......I try to, but I end up talking myself out of it. I actually have a little mental battle with myself over feeling anything. I tried it yesterday. I said to myself, Okay I'm sad that I'm not with my husband....and I was. Then I said I'm going to sit with the feeling. That worked for like 5 seconds before my mind started wandering to other things...I'd catch myself and try again....to no avail, it happened everytime.

So being in touch with my emotions completely escapes me, and I know I come off cold to people, and I don't want to, but I don't understand how you make it different. I keep asking the counselors...."What do other people do? You can't possibly just walk around *feeling* everything all the time, you'd never get anything else done" They just sorta look at me.

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong> Thank you Jenny....I will check that out...it's as good a starting place as any, I appreciate the help.

Noodle-

Expand on that please, what do you mean. I find it very hard to even tell what emotion I am feeling most of the time, they are working with me on that one in group.

Caren, I have this same issue..usually because I am feeling more than one at a time. Not every aspect of my personality has the same reaction to input. So I sort of have a more complex road in determining who is driving the car in any given situation.

Here's a few for instances:

My counselor started crying in group, because she is genuinely worried about me....I had no idea what I should be feeling about that, I just sort of looked at her blankly, I felt nothing but confused by it.

Blank..is precisely the word my IC used to describe me when I first began therapy. he asked what I felt about Hs a and I said "I don't know"

Yesterday in group, there was a woman there that hears voices, and was talking about how it is so bad that she has trouble driving, she's actually gone up on the curb, etc a few times, and it scares her. Most of the people in the group were rushing to give her suggestions (Not allowed btw) and telling her how proud they are of the work she's done.....the counselor re-directs and says "you are all trying to help her, but how does it make you feel when she says that??? It makes you feel powerless, doesn't it?" I was staying out of it, but it eventually worked it's way to me, and I said "I don't feel anything about her saying that. I know I should, but I don't. It worries me that I don't feel scared for her, or even scared that she may hurt someone else. How am I supposed to feel about it? It doesn't make me feel powerless, it doesn't make me FEEL anything.

I hear you..I would have had the same problem. I might have gone even a step further and been more curious than concerned..like I wanted to study her..like she was an interestung bug..not a person having a crisis.

Okay now here's one that wasn't about group. If someone were to give me a present, even if I liked the present and it's something I have ALWAYS wanted, I sit there feeling stupid, not knowing what to say. I know what I'm supposed to say, so that's what I go with, fake sincerity and a forced "Oh, thank you I really like it". But I am SURE I look like I don't even appreciate it. I have felt that way my entire life, I don't know what to feel in those situations. I even asked my WH about that recently, I said "When you would give me something, did you feel like I appreciated it?" He said "No, not really" I said "okay, well I always did, I just don't know how to show that".

These words could have come straight out of my mouth..particularly the bit about having an insincere feeling about a genuine reaction..as in.."I really DO like the gift..so why do I feel so fake saying that?

Noodle I would love to have someone at least try to explain that to me. Everyone tells me to just *feel* my emotions, and I really try, I just don't get it. They say, it's okay to be sad, and I know it is, and they tell me to just sit with the feeling, okay......I try to, but I end up talking myself out of it. I actually have a little mental battle with myself over feeling anything. I tried it yesterday. I said to myself, Okay I'm sad that I'm not with my husband....and I was. Then I said I'm going to sit with the feeling. That worked for like 5 seconds before my mind started wandering to other things...I'd catch myself and try again....to no avail, it happened everytime.

So being in touch with my emotions completely escapes me, and I know I come off cold to people, and I don't want to, but I don't understand how you make it different. I keep asking the counselors...."What do other people do? You can't possibly just walk around *feeling* everything all the time, you'd never get anything else done" They just sorta look at me.

I come off cold as well. Uhhhm..I think it isn't so much something that you CHANGE..I think that some personality types are more reserved in this way than others..more contained. I'd strongly suspect that adult ADD may play a part. I've suspected that may be an issue for you for quite some time..I recognize too many traits..ya know? I do think it is something that you manage..it may be a part that was simply underdeveloped in the first place [as per my IC]..in my own case..I needed to survive..I needed to function and be in control of myself to do that..and while I was surviving..I was not going through the natural growth emotionally that I would have otherwise. So really, I needed to excercise that part of my personality. I
t isn't as hard as it sounds.

I'm happy to talk about this with you as much as you want..but not sure what to tell you..lead on.

Noodle

-Caren </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong>Expand on that please, what do you mean. I find it very hard to even tell what emotion I am feeling most of the time, they are working with me on that one in group.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought I read that you are on AD's aren't you?

I really wonder whether some of the above feeling can be attributed to AD's?

I realize some people need them to cope but if you are trying to go on a journey to figure out your emotions and who you are, I think its hard to get anywhere if your emotions are being masked by AD's.

JMHO,

Miker

IMHO,

It's time for you to focus on thinking and acting not feeling. I think it's important though to understand the underlying feelings but not to be ruled by them. This is a time to not be ruled by your emotions.

Your ADs are doing their job

Noodle-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hear you..I would have had the same problem. I might have gone even a step further and been more curious than concerned..like I wanted to study her..like she was an interestung bug..not a person having a crisis. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh my gosh, that is what I felt like....I wanted to ask her what the voices were saying, were they telling her to do stuff, were they male voices or female voices...etc. I wanted to dissect her the minute she said that. It didn't make me feel anything except curious, and I knew that it would be rude to start asking her that stuff, so I just didn't say anything at all.

At one point the counselor said "Caren, you're anti-social aren't you?" I said "Probably" They have also told me to *grow up*, that *I approach life like it's a battle*, that *I would be great in the army commanding my troops*.....I know they are doing this to get a rise out of me, it doesn't. (I disagreed with the being great in the army since there is no way in hell I could take being ordered around)

Miker-

I was like this before the anti-depressants, I can fake any emotion you want me to, but I don't feel it. I have been channeling every feeling into anger, I stuffed everything I felt before I realized I felt it, and then everything would come out in one giant explosion every so often.

This happened to me with 9/11, when that happened it LEVELED me emotionally for days.....I thought I'm glad I don't have a job, I'm barely functioning here....but did I tell anyone? Nope, I got a handle on it, and stuffed it all back in.....and it takes something earth shattering to evoke that type of reaction from me, like my life falling apart around me.

I was channeling everything into anger.....then I found out that's not right, then everything I felt got translated into pain.....PAIN PAIN PAIN, I couldn't think of anything else. I didn't realize that's what I was doing right away....but when I did, I thought, Okay....that's not right either...okay so everything isn't anger, and everything isn't pain, this isn't supposed to be an all or nothing thing here. Now I can feel myself shutting down again......I don't know what to do about that...I know it's not right, but I don't know what to do to make it different.

Noodle-

I have had the same thoughts that I probably have always had ADD and back when I was younger they didn't diagnose that, so I just learned to cope. My 19 year old has ADD, and she also has some tactile stimuli problems...and her occupational therapist when she was in elementary was talking to me and I said "You know what...I'm the same way." So she tested me and lo and behold, I had the same problem, and just learned to deal with it. She also has a hand eye coordination deficit that I believe I have as well....she still writes like she's in elementary school, so do 2 of my sisters....My writing is very neat, very pretty....you know why? Because I couldn't accept it the way it was, so I practiced every single day until it was perfect. And I am by no stretch of the imagination a perfectionist...just anal about that particular thing...If I make a mistake on my grocery list, like spelling something wrong, I have to make a whole new list....and yet, my house being totally destroyed didn't bother me, I have just recently decided that wasn't acceptable, so it went from thrashed to perfectly spotless, and now I can't accept less than that and am very irritated with the kids when they have their stuff out.

*sigh* it makes me tired thinking about this stuff.

-Caren

Mimi-

My emotions are way in check now, I think you're are correct, the AD's are doing their job....I'm on the most even keel I've been on in a long time.

But this is probably in direct conflict with the whole finding out who Caren is thing....ya know?

I don't have the answers to any of this, it always just turns up more questions....and if one more counselor tells me it's the journey and not the destination I will scream.

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong> Noodle-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hear you..I would have had the same problem. I might have gone even a step further and been more curious than concerned..like I wanted to study her..like she was an interestung bug..not a person having a crisis. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh my gosh, that is what I felt like....I wanted to ask her what the voices were saying, were they telling her to do stuff, were they male voices or female voices...etc. I wanted to dissect her the minute she said that. It didn't make me feel anything except curious, and I knew that it would be rude to start asking her that stuff, so I just didn't say anything at all.

At one point the counselor said "Caren, you're anti-social aren't you?" I said "Probably" They have also told me to *grow up*, that *I approach life like it's a battle*, that *I would be great in the army commanding my troops*.....I know they are doing this to get a rise out of me, it doesn't. (I disagreed with the being great in the army since there is no way in hell I could take being ordered around)

Miker-

I was like this before the anti-depressants, I can fake any emotion you want me to, but I don't feel it. I have been channeling every feeling into anger, I stuffed everything I felt before I realized I felt it, and then everything would come out in one giant explosion every so often.

This happened to me with 9/11, when that happened it LEVELED me emotionally for days.....I thought I'm glad I don't have a job, I'm barely functioning here....but did I tell anyone? Nope, I got a handle on it, and stuffed it all back in.....and it takes something earth shattering to evoke that type of reaction from me, like my life falling apart around me.

I was channeling everything into anger.....then I found out that's not right, then everything I felt got translated into pain.....PAIN PAIN PAIN, I couldn't think of anything else. I didn't realize that's what I was doing right away....but when I did, I thought, Okay....that's not right either...okay so everything isn't anger, and everything isn't pain, this isn't supposed to be an all or nothing thing here. Now I can feel myself shutting down again......I don't know what to do about that...I know it's not right, but I don't know what to do to make it different.

Noodle-

I have had the same thoughts that I probably have always had ADD and back when I was younger they didn't diagnose that, so I just learned to cope. My 19 year old has ADD, and she also has some tactile stimuli problems...and her occupational therapist when she was in elementary was talking to me and I said "You know what...I'm the same way." So she tested me and lo and behold, I had the same problem, and just learned to deal with it. She also has a hand eye coordination deficit that I believe I have as well....she still writes like she's in elementary school, so do 2 of my sisters....My writing is very neat, very pretty....you know why? Because I couldn't accept it the way it was, so I practiced every single day until it was perfect. And I am by no stretch of the imagination a perfectionist...just anal about that particular thing...If I make a mistake on my grocery list, like spelling something wrong, I have to make a whole new list....and yet, my house being totally destroyed didn't bother me, I have just recently decided that wasn't acceptable, so it went from thrashed to perfectly spotless, and now I can't accept less than that and am very irritated with the kids when they have their stuff out.

*sigh* it makes me tired thinking about this stuff.

-Caren </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Caren, About the messy house thing...I discovered that my own situation was CAUSED by my perfectionism. I would get this paralyization when trying to deal with it because there was SO much to do..I would be scrubbing the baseboards with a toothbrush if you know what I mean..so it was easier to just not think about it..and keep it only *functional* *tidy* not really clean or organized. I lose things all the time. Important things. It's an ongoing battle. it's also hard for me to pinpoint just what IS reasonable..particularly because I am willing to give equal consideration to most options. it doesn't help that H is precisely the SAME as I am. No contrast.

For example..I NEED someone to tell me that my housing should be 36% ish so that I will know where to aim.

Expect the house to slide back and try not to despair when it does...you'll probably have to slowly find real solutions to the chaos..you have to make it EASIER to be ordered than to be disordered..make sense?

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong>
Miker-

I was like this before the anti-depressants, I can fake any emotion you want me to, but I don't feel it. I have been channeling every feeling into anger, I stuffed everything I felt before I realized I felt it, and then everything would come out in one giant explosion every so often.

This happened to me with 9/11, when that happened it LEVELED me emotionally for days.....I thought I'm glad I don't have a job, I'm barely functioning here....but did I tell anyone? Nope, I got a handle on it, and stuffed it all back in.....and it takes something earth shattering to evoke that type of reaction from me, like my life falling apart around me.

I was channeling everything into anger.....then I found out that's not right, then everything I felt got translated into pain.....PAIN PAIN PAIN, I couldn't think of anything else. I didn't realize that's what I was doing right away....but when I did, I thought, Okay....that's not right either...okay so everything isn't anger, and everything isn't pain, this isn't supposed to be an all or nothing thing here. Now I can feel myself shutting down again......I don't know what to do about that...I know it's not right, but I don't know what to do to make it different.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Caren... I do kinda agree with Mimi that probably trying to sort out your feelings isn't quite where you are at yet. Your still in the survival & crisis stage.

Sounds like you feel that your feelings issues aren't related to the ADs anyways... I suggest keep on with your counselling if you can and maybe you can sort them out with time. Don't get too stressed if you can't figure them out right away though... feelings are definitely complicated.

I just wanted to make you think about the ADs that they might be having an effect and you shouldn't discount them if you are doing some "soul searching" into your feelings and who you are.

ADs aren't just "happy pills". I think I better just leave it at that as I have a strong opinion about this that is probably contrary to most mental professionals and people on this board.

Hang in there and keep on going to your counselling! Things will get better.

Miker

Noodle-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I lose things all the time. Important things. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh my gosh, I do too, the importance of the item has no bearing on whether or not I can lose it, I don't care how big it is, or how expensive, or how important, if you give me enough time, I will lose it. This is weird...LOL, I've never met anyone that could relate to this stuff. It drives my Mom completely insane, because my Dad does the same things, and she tells me....if you would just *think* about things you wouldn't lose them. Yeah, I really still would. I try very hard to always put my keys in my purse...but alas I lay them all over the place without thinking.

I actually don't expect the house to go back to the way it was, because now I am throwing everything away LMAO, I know that's not what I should be doing, but once a clutter pile starts I compound it with useless bullcrap that was trash to begin with. So things are hitting the trash can left and right.

One of my house keeping difficulties is that I can overlook anything, I hyper focus on what I'm doing and I wouldn't even see the mess around me, so I'm just hyper focusing on the mess now...and cleaning it up as soon as I see it, it takes so much less time to keep it clean than to clean it, and I'm finding myself not dreading doing it and procrastinating about it...I have a HUGE procrastination problem.

I am also TENSE at all times, I seriously feel like I'm going to jump out of my skin, it's insane, I can't even stand someone to touch me when I feel like that, and I recoil from it immediately....(No not from my husband, I can somehow tune it out for him)so I take Xanax and have been taking it for about 6 years.

That's so funny noodle....I'm glad you posted this to me.

Miker-

I understand how some people feel about AD's and meds in general. I have never been one of those people, I am not remotely afraid to take meds, nor do I view it as a shortcoming, an anti-depressant just replaces a chemical my brain is missing, I didn't do anything to cause this chemical to not be there, so I don't feel bad about replacing it. I'm not sure why I feel this way because my Mom is totally opposite of this, she wouldn't take her hormone replacement after she had her hysterectomy because she thought she'd get addicted....I said "Mom...they're hormones...something your body was producing and now it's not....you're already addicted to them"

-Caren

Caren, Sometimes I think it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. In order to have a good marriage, we're told we need to spend at least 15 hours/week or more with our spouse. Good marriages have a lot of common interests and activities. Now we're away from our spouses, we have develop new interests and activities. We have to figure out what we want. I guess if we'd done that before the A, we'd have been the WS.

Hi Caren,

Yes people do have vary opinions on a lot of things don't they! That's what makes the world wonderful, it sure would be boring if they didn't.

I think I can safely say I speak from a different perspective than your mother. I do respect your opinion. I would, however, like you to read this quote from shoppers drug mart web site regarding ADs.

"While researchers don't know exactly how antidepressants work to ease the symptoms of depression, they do know these medications affect the brain chemistry by affecting levels of neurotransmitters - chemicals which nerve cells in the brain use to communicate - that are associated with mood. In particular, there are three types of neurotransmitters associated with depression - serotonin, norepinephrine and possibly dopamine - and it is believed people suffering with depression have lower levels of at least one of the three. "

I hope your doctor conveyed all this information including the "researchers don't know exactly how AD's work..."

I'm not saying that they aren't helpful at all, or aren't helpful in your specific case but just be forewarned they are mucking in areas that we don't really understand.

Miker

Gotcha Miker <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-Caren

Grapegirl, you are so right. I love the way you put things <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong> Gotcha Miker <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-Caren </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry for the threadJack. I gotta quit doing that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Now back to your regular scheduled programming...

Miker

Oh it wasn't a threadjack Miker, you were talking to me...and it's my thread, it's all good LOL

-Caren