Just had a discussion with Dylan about sending her back to school. We were brainstorming ideas... some of which are quite honestly out of our range right now.

But in this discussion, it came out that Dylan's parents would be happy to help out but there's strings attached.

Guess what they are.

Ya. Me.

More specifically, me gone. Till then, she's completely on her own. And as far as the child goes, well it's understood that there would be full legal support.

I'm shaking.

Dylan was very resistant to the idea of opening up to me on this. Can't say I blame her. She cracked when I told her that I was feeling like she was withholding something and secrets make me uncomfortable.

I made a point of not over reacting, but rationally confessed that yes, I was quite upset, though not surprised. I don't want to create an environement where she will fear being honest with me.

But now I have an issue.

My Son's grandmother is actively campaigning to have his family dissolved.

I'm beyond grateful that Dylan has not taken her mother up on any of her offers. Beyond grateful. Truth is I so don't have it in me to go into a custody battle but it's not like I'd EVER let anyone take another son from me again. I simply will not live through that.

But now I have a dilemma.

And I need advice.

Because I'm a conflict avoider. And it skews my judgement something feirce.

On one hand, the woman's opinion is her opinion and as long as it's not affecting my family, why should I be concerned? Dylan has already demonstrated that she does not share her mothers to split up the family for good.

On the other hand, I view this as a threat. A threat not only to me, but to my son. And some instinctual part of me is freaking right the heck out.

How can I be ok with visits to Gramma's with this kind of attitude in place? It's not like I can be there to supervise, as I'm not invited. Which, to tell the truth is fine with me. I'd have continued to be polite for as long as forever, but was quite grateful when it was not required anymore.

And I didn't even take it personally. I know she can't stand me, and if I pretend for a moment that I was Dylan's mom, I can even understand why. Not that she's entirely justified in her view, but when it comes to parents their children, well... y'know.

Anyway, the point is that even though I always knew that they would throw a party if Dylan and I split for good, I didn't make a big fuss because I figure that they would have the decent sense to keep their opinions to themselves. Or mention it once to make their opinion officially known and then dropped it.

But know that I know they are actively campaigning, and trying to influence, with the express intent of destroying what remains of this fragile family unit do I really continue to offer my support in maintaining their relationship with my son?

I feel like sending these last two paragraphs to them in an email. And a few other paragraphs that I would delete shortly after writing...

Any suggestions? Should I relax? Take a stance? Write a letter expressing my concerns and respectfully ask that they shut the heck up and we go back to being fakely polite until my son is an adult?

I really need some clear minds on this one.

dewt

DEWT:

I feel for ya.

Not to long ago Cindy's parents told her that she needed to lose me.

Cindy's Mom and Stepdad seem to be more in line now with Cindy coming clean and all.

But her DAD...Oh boy..


That Man is never allowed near my children or my house ever again..I will never bend on that rule ever. even if it means losing Cindy.

This is a man who has gone over to OM's house and had coffee with him, This is the man who called OM and spent an hour talking to him.

Talk about crappy....

If I were you. I would call MIL and talk it out..Listen with your heart and don't let anger control you.

Your fighting for your M and with it comes in-laws.

Good luck and keep me posted.

Dewt, I think it's your W's call. If she says don't talk to them, you shouldn't do it. If she's ok with it, and you feel it will be effective in resolving conflict, then go for it.

Certainly do not talk to them behind her back, and do not talk to them if your reason for doing so is simply to express your resentment or other feelings on the matter. Either would make the situation worse.

Good luck,
PM

Thanks for the replies.

I certainly won't do anything until I've throroughly thought it through. Gee. Say that ten times fast.

I probably wouldn't try to talk to her about it either. She is an aggressive type of person with a serious and long lasting hate on for me. How is that conducive to any sort of communication.

If anything I would write a letter. One that I could think about carefully and edit to make sure everything is phrased properly and that the core issues were addressed without the whole thing being derailed by anger.

But I'm not even sure that I'd do that. I'm sure that the last thing Dylan needs is to be placed in the middle of a war. Heck, not to mention that it's the last thing in the world I need right now too.

So first thing is to get my emotions under control and look at it with clearer eyes.

My father is faaaaar from perfect. There's no way I'd leave my son alone with him for any extended period of time ever again, but I'm not ready to cut him entirely out of his life either. Is it fair and just of me to get up on a high horse and start making demands.

I think you might be right. Maybe this is for Dylan to deal with in whatever way she sees fit.

dewt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong> Your fighting for your M and with it comes in-laws.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">erk...

effect=[sound of running footsteps receding rapidly into the distance]

Dewt,

Couple of things..

1 Yikes, what MIL is doing will almost surely bite her in the..well, it's coming back..'nuff said. Why? Even if the two of you dissolve this once and for all..it needs to be the honest and certain CHOICE. Dangling a carrot may get MIL what she wants short term..but unless D is REALLY sure or REALLY shallow it will only lead to future waffling.

2 Having said that, I'm sure it is difficult for MIL to stand by and watch all of..this. My own mother recently told me..that she struggled mightily with the temptation to dangle in this very same manner things she knows I would like to have. Things that might make separating from [then] WH look more attractive.

3 So..what should you do? About confronting directly..no..she isn't REALLY doing anything besides offering HER money on HER terms. Sorry, you may not like the motive..but you are correct. It's hers and she can do as she likes with it.

I'm coming back to this in a minute.

4 Why does MIL dislike you to such an extreme? No..really think about this before you answer.

I need the answer though to go any further.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong>Why does MIL dislike you to such an extreme? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh gawd... you want a list???

Oi vey...

That's a long list. (however, it contains absolutely no abuse or mistreatment)

But it all started close to 20 years ago when her daughter brought home a scruffy street punk... that summer ended with an abortion. And it was pretty much downhill from there.

Y'know this could be long. Really long. You could always check out one of the 'dewt fessing up' threads from last winter for some more reasons if you like...

And the truth is, I can't blame her for how she feels. She's allowed to hate me. I don't blame her a bit. And quite frankly, I have my issues with her too...

However, for Dylan's sake, and the sake of my child, I have always been polite, respectful and pleasant. (I will continue to do so)

So while I don't blame her for how she feels, I do take exception to her deliberate plotting against this family.

I have a best friend, eeyoder-dewt. Eeyoder-dewt is married to a woman that I absolutely can't stand. I think she's wrong for him on so many levels and every time I speak with him, I can see that she makes his life hell. And before they got married, I was asked for my opinion and gave it.

They got married anyway and once that happened, my position changed. Hey, I still feel the same way about her. She still annoys me and I still don't like the way she treats my friend. But my role now, despite how I feel about her, is to support my friend in his marriage.

Would I be happy if they divorced?

(sound of tongue being bitten)

No. I would not be happy. And when he calls and gets into a ***** fest, I let him vent and I be supportive. If I have advice or an approach to suggest, I do. If I have 'I told you so' feelings (which I often do) I keep them to myself.

My God says that when two people are married, no man should come between them. I think this is a very sage rule.

dewt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong>Why does MIL dislike you to such an extreme? No..really think about this before you answer.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, I thought about it for a few extra seconds. I think I have it simplified...

She dislikes me because I'm a loser and no good for her daughter.

That's the crux of it.

Another thought did occur to me. It's quite possible that I owe MIL a debt of gratitude.

One fact about my beloved is that if she feels pressured in any way, she will almost certainly do the opposite. With that in mind, it's conceivable that MIL is directly responsible for Dylan still being here. In fact, if MIL keeps it up, Dylan and I might very well be headed for a full recovery! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

dewt

Dewt..

isnt' the real key to all of this Dylan..

one can not be in the middle of anything unless they put themselves there....

Isn't this all about Dylans choice to protect the family

mom can say blah blah blah...

dylan's role is to say mom I love you
I know you love me..

but dewt is my husband and I would appreciate it if you don't say things about him that are negative...

SET THE LIMIT DYLAN
SET THE BOUNDARY
with an escape plan when crossed...

isn't that what needs to happen here..

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong>Isn't this all about Dylans choice to protect the family

mom can say blah blah blah...

dylan's role is to say mom I love you
I know you love me..

but dewt is my husband and I would appreciate it if you don't say things about him that are negative...
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I personally love this idea. But only in principle.

In practice, more than likely her mom would blow her top and there would be drama and over-reaction. Then they wouldn't speak etc, etc, etc, but the last thing that will ever happen is that mom will say, "Dylan, you are right. I'm sorry. I will no longer speak thusly."

Dylan's mom is probably even more stubborn than Dyaln. (No offense, Dylan. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

I think in a sense Dylan was protecting us in the best way she could. She would never allow her mother to denigrate me in front of our child and by not telling me, she obviously felt that she could avoid having my reaction becoming a factor. Effectively, by filtering and supervising, she's been trying to protect her family.

I'm glad to say that having had the chance to vent this issue, I can assure everyone that I'm not going to react in such a way that causes further conflict within this household. Dylan is quite aware of how innappropriately her mother is behaving. And if Dylan was ever going to dump me just cause her mom said so, well it would have certainly happened by now.

So ya, it's in Dylans hands to deal with. And she can do so in anyway that she sees fit, with no expectations nor demands from me.

On the other hand, if I ever got even the slightest feeling that my son was not protected from this vitriol, I would have the responsibility, as the boys father, to broach the subject with Dylan and take a more active role in pursuing a solution. Gee, that came out well.

I've still got to figure out how I will handle the actual phone calls now. Do I continue with this charade of niceties? I don't think I could stomach the standard small talk that we go through when I find myself inadvertantly on the phone with her. I think I will just politely and succinctly pass the phone right over and skip the whole thing. If she remarks on it, Dylan can give her whatever explanation she sees fit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

dewt

That parents would pit a daughter against her own family when there are no abuse issues concerning that daughter or grandchild...ick!

I will echo what the others have said - this is Dylans issue, unfortunately.

Dylans husband and child come before her parents. Her parents should know this and not do this to her, or to you.

I have no parents anymore (or inlaws for that matter) but I know that husbands and kids come before parents.

My sister had this issue with my dad at one time, when she chose to remarry her exhusband. My dad said her exhusband would not be welcome in his home, and my sister said then neither will I be here.

Guess what, my dad gave in. BIl was welcome in his home again and treated very well. Sister and her again husband then helped me take care of my dad all those years he was dying of alcoholism. So it seemed to me my dad was wrong initially but then made the right choice when he conceded to sister. (btw she told me the same thing when I was against her remarrying him and I chose him and her rather than lose my sister)

I can understand why MIL would be so angry. However, I think that:

a) her perspective is understandably biased.

b) she is opinionated to start with and menopause is not helping in the least

c) considering everything, she should take the speck out of her own eye before she points out the one in mine

d) she's always hated me, so this is really no big surprise

e) I'm mostly just reacting to the injustice of her judgement and actions. It's a sore spot with me and I've really kinda had enough with individuals working against the recovery of this family. This includes MIL and also many of Dylans 'friends'. But all this is really out of my control so I should just learn to let go and let idiots be idiots. Dylan's a big girl and perfectly capable of making her own decisions. If there's a battle here, I don't think that it's not one that I can get involved in without adding detrimental complications.

f) I don't have to like it, but there's no sense in allowing it to ruin my day.

dewt

Dewt,

OK..think I might have a slightly better idea..but of course my picture is as fuzzy as your descriptions..so bear with me and correct me in any area that I am mistaken.

I think that getting rid of you..may possibly not be her *goal*. I think her *goal* could possibly be seeing her daughter succeed in life..and MIL clearly believes that YOU are an obstacle to that goal. Do you really believe that MIL would dislike you if you were clearly an asset? What a fool she would be.

So, my advice to you, is that you STOP being a liability, and START being an asset.

Seek out ways in which to do this. If it doesn't pursuade your MIL to reconsider, at least it would do no harm and much good to your M.

I think that accepting the possibility that MIL feels that your influence has had a negative affect in her daughters life from the word *go*..accepting that this might be true..and working to change it..possibly also making apology in addition to the changes would probably go a long way.

You see..given even the short list..if I applied it to my daughter..I would be out for blood Dewt. Do you understand what I am telling you?

I am not absolving anyone of wrongdoing..not saying that people are not responsible for their own choices..what I am saying..is that were I in MILs position, I'm not sure that I could in good conscience take any action that would support what I believe to be a damaging relationship for someone that I loved. That I would help them get out , but not help them stay in.

This may not be as unethical as you have interpreted it..may not be a direct attack on your M. It is possible that the greatest threat to your M is the two of you enabling each other in making poor choices. I have read enough of your shared posts to think this is a possibility.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong>You see..given even the short list..if I applied it to my daughter..I would be out for blood Dewt. Do you understand what I am telling you?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh don't get me wrong. I understand totally what you are saying. Me too. But it's not that simple.

Firstly, there's no way I could ever persuade MIL to accept me. She's way too set in her ways and I could end up being a millionaire and it wouldn't make any difference. It has long been established that she is utterly incapable of seeing me an asset to her daughter.

Secondly, it's more about control than a mature desire to actually help her daughter. Even when Dylan and I were apart, there were other offers dangled with 'strings attached'. Sure she wants Dylan to succeed in life, but her definitions of success and the parameters thereof are radically different than Dylans.

All this is, in a sense, fine with me. I actually don't like the lady and am grateful that I don't have to visit. Having said that, I don't particularily want or need any conflict because of this. Neither does Dylan, and in no way could it be a good thing for our son.

I raise the example again of my friend. I do not think that his marriage is a healthy one. I conside many of his wife's stunts to be emotionally abusive. I personally would have been LONG gone, long ago. BUT I do not try to help him get out of that relationship. When I'm not just being a good listener, I try my darnest to offer perspectives that will help him IMPROVE the life that HE has CHOSEN. (I'm not shouting, just too lazy for UBB code)

BUT, as irrational as she is, there is a point there.

I do want to be a positive factor in Dylan's life. Not just for her, but for me too. I would like to be able to set an all around good example for my son to live by as well.

So far I've got mixed results listed on my track record and I'm not going to complain about that or try to deny it.

My current plan is focussed primarily around resolving these personal issues. It's a process and I anticipate that the end result will be worth the effort.

dewt