Yep - you are miserable right now, but have probably saved yourself much more misery later. Hope you will hang in there and take a stand for yourself. Stick with us.

MC, I am so sorry you are hurting right now. Alot of us here have been there so we know exactly what you are going through. Just know that it won't always hurt like this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

MC,
You will survive this mess.
It looks gloomy right now, but things have a way of working themselves out.
and just because
You may not get what you were hoping for
that doesn't mean you won't
wind up with more than you ever wished!

Stay the course.

FM

Massive Confussion,

Our stories are somewhat similar so let me chime in here to let you know that it is for the best.

All I can say is that you are so fortunate that you found MB BEFORE you got married. I wish I had found MB in 1984.

I was dating my wife. We were exclusive. I started hearing about this guy who did busuness with her boss. Then I didn't hear any more. Then I got the "maybe we should date others" talk. I asked if it was bc of this guy. "No." (This is in fact the first lie that I know my now wife has told me)

We go our seperate ways. Over several months, she dates him. He dumps her (later I find out it's bc he got what he wanted iykwim)

I was busy with my new career so I didn't really date anyone in particular during this period.

Eventually wife calls. We start up again. I specifically ask her if our ending was due to this guy. Still the answer is "no." I ask if they had sex. "No."

I've never asked her about the men that came b4 me but I was convinced that this guy was the reason for our split.

We get engaged.

She goes to work at a new job. She is very excited about it. I hear all sorts of great things about the people there. In particular, I hear about co-worker, LA.

Her discussions of him reminded me of the previous guy. She was bubbly, excited. Then the conversations of him started to dwindle.

By this time I had seen the two of them together on several occassions. The hair on the back of my neck was standing a mile high.

We got married. She eventually quit the job. Prior we had actually done a few things socially with LA and his new wife.

We stopped. I had told her that I felt uncomfortable about their "friendship."

Fast forward 15 years. His name comes up again. My wife and daughters are invited to a photo showing of LA's. Huh? I asked at the time have you kept in touch with him? "No- he just sent invitation in the mail."

After months I discover at a minimum an EA

A year later the truth finally comes out it was a full on EA/PA with the word "soul mate" used often. I also ask if she had had sex with the guy during our dating. I knew the answer b4 it crossed her lips. "Yes."

Recovery has been hell. We were starting to make progress. I was to the point where I didn't think about it and trigers were fewer and also less severe.

This past holiday I was cleaning out old tax records. I found phone records back to our early marriage (5 years after she quit the job that kept her in touch with LA)

What do you think I found? Yep calls to LA on a fairly consistent basis from 1991 until affair. Wish I had the records from 1984-1991. She called him at least 3 times a year and I'm sure he called her at least as often. Numerous years the calls were more frequesnt. I also found certain months bills missing. Strange since I'm a stickler on keeping tax records.

Does this mean they had an affair the entire time? Probably not but it is possible. What it says is that they had a secret relationship for nearly if not all of our marriage that ultimatley led to a E & P affair.

Back in '86 when I expressed my discomfort. I was treated like a jealous monster. Sound familiar?

It was easy to fix for my W. Just stop telling me about their contact.

Now that we have been married 20 years and have 3 children, it is very difficult emotionally & financially to extricate myself. I remember great times but also wonder if that was in fact reality. All of the good times are in fact bracketed by her calls to him.

You are very lucky that you can do something that I should have. Do not marry this woman even if she comes crawling back.

Had you gotten married and had you once again communicated to your W your discomfort with her "friend", my guess is that the same outcome may have occurred. She would have kept the relationship secret from you.

You are very fortunate that you found MB in time.

Take care,

Mac

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Hi {{{MC}}},

I am sorry you are hurting.We all know how hard this must be for you.It takes great strength to give up what you thought was right and realize that it truly wasn't.

if you stick with us,we can show you how to be prepared for a real,healthy marriage one day.We are so far ahead of the societal curve on relationships you will be amazed.

If I may ask,how did your fiance take the news? What did you say to her? Have you let your family know? It's ok if you don't want to be specific.We are here to listen,kind of like an all night MB diner,ok? I am glad you are seeking out professional help.Most of us have too and it does help.

Don't try to force a happy face.This is a very difficult time for you so let those feelings come and deal with them.That is the best way,in a time that is very painful,to heal these wounds.

Prayers to you~

O

CWMac: That's been the hardest part is finding people who have been where i'm at so I appreciate it.

"The hair on the back of my neck was standing a mile high."

The first time I saw her interact with him I had a feeling just like that and it has never left me. I caught him looking at her and that look said it all to me. I even asked a few weeks back when I confronted her again that if everything is hunky dory and he's a good friend then lets have dinner. She said he's really busy with his ill mother, which was an instant alarm bell. Getting her phone bill was the final straw. She left out of town for New Years and during this time there was calling to a number I found out was his. She did not even ask me to pick her up from the airport. I also saw when she did a storm out one night that the first person she called was him at midnight and I assume that's where she went, even though she said she was going to her parents. The sad thing is I still want to believe her which really screws with my circuitry. I did confront her about all of this though and all I got was silence. Getting her to wear her ring was a struggle too.

Octobergirl, thanks and I hope you folks stay with me...I'm feeling a lot better about it being over but need the help. I wouldn't have had the courage to stand up without the advice I have received from you and I went out and bought some books that have been suggested and read them all evening. I'll share those details soon but need a little digestion time.

MC,
One more question. How did it end? Did you call it off or did she after further questions?

She sounds like a classic Conflict Avoider. You definitely don't want to marry one. You will never truely know where you stand.

Also a further thought on your/our situation. The funny thing about my wife and her OM is that they were both engaged when they met. They really should have talked about their feelings and at a minimum postpone the respective weddings. That way they could have known if there was anything there or not. Had they done that they would have hurt some feelings at the time but if they were meant to be together they could have been. Instead, they impacted the lives of three spouses (His first marriage failed)

Each of his wives and I deserved to find someone who could be honest with us. Actually his first wife may be the lucky one here since she got out b4 having children.

They actually kinda deserve each other.

You on th eother hand can now go find someone who cares for you. Someone not as selfish as your fiancee was.

Wanna trade pleaces?

Remember do not take her back!!

Nac

She left when confronted and sent me an email that she needs to figure out things and don't know how long that will be and has left town. I told her that if figuring it out means seeing other people and not being exclusive to each other then I have figured out my end of things.

Her response may not mean seeing other people. It amy just be a way of saying," I don't like your questions. They make me feel uncomfortable. You're not supposed to question me and my behavior."

She may just be in her bunker waiting for the shelling to stop so she can come out and things will be back to "normal" ie her likeing.

This is passive-aggressive behavior and it is very manipulative.

Mac

I know she'll try to hang on by saying we should maintain exclusivity while figuring it out.

Octobergirl:

I have started letting people know like my Uncle who ironically called about the wedding and my boss who is a close friend but haven't said all that much even to close friends.

Is that my last vestige of hanging on?

MC,

Please don't worry about "hanging on" right now.You just ended your plans to marry your fiance.That is a huge blow that you need to take time to deal with.You are hurting and confused.You can tell whomever you want about this when you feel well enough to do so.There is no rush,OK?

Do you have any other immediate family to tell,such as parents?

Gather as much support as you think you need.As painful as all this is,it helps to have those that really love you nearby.Please make sure you get enough sleep/water and eat some food ok? Take care of YOU now,it's important.

Stay with us~

O

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> MC,
Take care of YOU now,it's important.

Stay with us~

O </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">O is sooo right...

and also I wanted to add one thing MC...
now I don't say this for you to sit around holding out hope of reconciliation, but by ending this and applying tough love to this situation, is the ONLY chance of your ex-Fiance cleaning up her act. Up till now you Fiance has been a great big cake eater! She could do whatever she wanted with no regard knowing you were going to stay with her. Of course re-educating her SHOULD NOT be your motive here, but sometimes CONSEQUENCES for a WS's actions can be the best repairer of bad behaviour and selfish actions. Don't hold your breath, but also don't be shocked if a few months from now your wayward ex-fiance wants to make amends. The kicker is by that time you may not feel the same and have moved on with your life.

Just my thoughts based on my own experiences.

FM

Just wanted to say to MC that you are doing the right thing man. I made the mistake of marrying a woman who did all this sort of stuff. The signs were there. Like someone mentioned before, the past is a good prediction of future behavior. While we were dating a 'friend' came to visit her at her college dorm. She knew him from the jr college they both attended. He was someone she had feelings for...kissed once. It never went any where...I guess he couldnt commit. Well anyway, I wasnt invited to meet this guy....basically stay away. That hurt a lot. When he didnt show up....she called me.."ok we can go do something together now". I remember saving that on my answering machine...since I knew it was her & did not want to talk to her. It hurt so bad to come second. In another instance, I go to her dorm room one evening (just show up)....make a long story short...there is another guy in the room with her. He is in one of her classes. He sees me & walks out promptly. She never told him she had a bf. Later on in the relationship I get suspicious (a friend tells me something might be going on), so I get into her email account. I find that she is telling a girl friend that a guy in a class is coming on to her. Her friend tells her to make something up to tell me so she can go out wih him. Well I go ballistic...but forgive her. She said she didnt know her friend would give her advice like that. Anyway...she gaduates college & I marry this girl. I thought things would change. Things were ok until she got a new job 3 years later. Things got worse than ever before. She starte going to lunch, concerts & football games with a male co-worker. She would go to the gym & he would be there too. She would tell me about all this. I would protest her friendship with this guy. Her reaction was "you just dont want me to have any guy friends". I would leave it at that. Thats where I messed up..I should have left or asked for an ultimatum. After this guy leaves town...I think things are going to get bettter. But no...I find flirt notes that she was writing to guys in a night class she was taking. Her behavior was basically telling me that she will do whatever she wants to do. That if I dont like, I can take a giant leap. After I confronted her about what I had found, her response was that she can control it & that I am controlling. That these are her friends & she has never had friends like this for once in her life.

People on the board have talked about being trustworthy. The woman I dated & eventually married was not trustworthy from the beginning. Don't put yourself in a position where you put several years into a relationship (I was with her for 6 1/2 years). The longer you put up with it all, the harder it will to let it all go. I thought I was going to die when my relationship ended. But I have survived. I now know what to look for in a trustworthy person. Your gf is not even remotely close to that. It only gets worse with time.

MC,

Well, you have gotten great advice. But I thought I would just pile on as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> First, I have been where you are now. Fiance was a conflict avoider, so she let me FIND OUT, what she was up to. Had the talks like you did, but she denied all the while continuing with her AFFAIRS. Yup, there were more than one. It was the 60's you know, "free love" and all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Nothings free, not then, not now.

We became disengaged, and I moved on and to another part of the country, she also moved. Ultimately she was murdered by one of her boyfriends. One can only speculate as to the reasons. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have now been married for 28 years, have great kids, a great W, and when I pray I give thanks that I was shown the way out of the situation.

MC, don't even entertain the idea of getting back together with this woman. You are NOT going to change her, and you are NOT going to find that somehow she has decided that having affairs, lying, and not caring about you was really a bad thing. Oh! she will be sorry you are hurt, but not enough to truely change.

Please understand that many people marry because they feel they need to to get out of a home situation or whatever. They never work out well. If you were the man of her dreams this would not be happening. It does not matter if she was/is or not.

Move on, there are many great women out there with a sense of honesty, fidelity, and love that will far outstrip what you have experienced to date.

You have been blessed in ways you cannot understand right now, but accept those blessings, address the pain in your heart, and know that from this pain will grow and even better and stronger man, and a much better husband than you would have been if you and GF had married.

I normally close with God Bless, but you have already been blessed, accept that.

JL

Did first counseling session yesterday...lots of unpleasant things coming back. Trying to keep my head up and not let on to folks except those close to me. She called me today after 5 days of not talking to me and talked to me about things she was taking care of and working on but completely avoided the A issue.

I miss her. But at the same time my mind is becoming stronger to the fact that I cannot allow this to continue and will not be in a relationship of lies. I miss her right now more than at any time in the past 5 days since she left. The MB board has been a great comfort and I am learning and seeing instances of similar things...it's scary in some cases like they had the same A playbook.

As I was telling the therapist exactly what happened I could just tell her thoughts were "Yep, it's an affair allright." Just feeling very empty right now even though I had a great day with a positive attitude and drive that I always display. I won't let it affect me outwardly, I can't do that in the position I'm in profesisonally but am worried about keeping it in. There is so much more that happened that I am embarrassed about not confronting and that is the worst.

Hi MC,

Those that have had A's do read from what we call the "Script".Many times it's verbatim.Word for word.We have had some threads going listing just what our own WS's have said to us to compare.It is scary.As WAT says,they leave to go to the Mothership and come back as aliens(post-A) and they have the same fogspeak.

That's what kind of makes us "experts",we have heard every conceivable line and know what to expect.

Is your fiance now trying to do things to "win" you back?

O

Yeah, the phone call was about how she was taking care of some things with the house (remember she refused to call me back until today) and just as I expected said she wants exclusivity to continue in an email along with one that asked how my session was. She said she is having a hard time sleeping and emailed me at 4:30 in the morning yesterday.

Told me she loves me...hadn't seen that in a while.

If you have made a decision to end things permanently,and I assume you have? Then don't keep taking her calls,e-mails or any other form of contact.

Saying she loves you is not enough.Sometimes,love itself is not enough MC.It was not for me and it isn't for other's too.I can't tell you how many times my WH said he loved me all the while he was calling the homewrecker and saying the same.PUKE! His ACTIONS spoke very differently.It's the same for most of us.ILY does not equate with acceptance.

Your fiance may be scrambling now to make some ammends but you stood up for what is right.She has problems that are not going to be fixed in a week,5 days or months.

If there is so much more to tell about your situation,I hope one day you will feel comfortable enough to share with us.We have heard a lot and we can help.It's your choice though.It's a safe place to vent.

O