<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I am new to this board and this is my first posting. I just separated from my husband of five years. Although I must admit, things within our marriage have slowly deterioriated.

The situation that prompted the separation happend very, very quickly. On Sunday, Feb 27th, my husband announced at around 11:30 pm that he need to go to the grocery store to get ice cream. I told him we had ice cream in the fridge and I just went shopping for everything we needed. He insisted that he needed chocolate ice cream, and then left. He returned about 30 minutes later - with chocolate ice cream, and then ate some. The entire interaction just seemed so strange, so on a whim I checked his cell phone when he left and he had called someone while he was out.

I wrote the number down. The next day I called the number on the way to work and a woman answered, I said sorry, wrong # - the only thing I could say without crashing my car -- I was really hoping it was a work buddy. How do you always just know when something is not right?? Anyway, I finally called and asked about it and intially he said that she was a friend who he confides in about me when we are having problems, then he said that she did not know he was married, but he did have feelings for her, so he wanted to separate. I felt so betrayed and disconnected from him and I agreed. I told him I needed him out of the house as soon as possible, and I even helped him pack and find an apartment. Everything was very civil - we even laughed about it. I called his place a love nest and he got annoyed.

He moved out on Saturday. I left our house so that he and his three friends could come in and get all of his things. However, he still wants keys to the house and to be able to stop in. When I confronted him about it, he was upset, so I let it go. When I came back, he had moved everytihng out, but he was still in the living room watching TV and acted as if nothing happend. I asked him if she knew that he was moving and he said he cut it off. I took his cell phone and saw that this was a lie. He called her and she called him back.

We exchanged words and I left for a business trip about a half hour later. This was yesterday. We have not talked since. I will be gone for a week, and he will be gone for a week when I get back. He wants to work it out, but he does not want me to call or confront the woman, or tell my family until we work it out. He is convinced that we can get through it, but also does not want to end contact with this woman, and now that we are separated, there is no way for me to know for sure if he will. After this, I reviewed our cell phone bills more carefully and I see too many #s that I don't recongize to count -- about 4-5 numbers show up more than a dozen times. I am tempted to call all of them.

This all seems very hopeless to me. Is there really any hope given the circumstances of our separation? How will I ever be able to trust him again -- won't this just poison everything from now on?

To briefly answer your question, no, separation isn't ideal, but there is MUCH hope to resolve this mess.

Please absorb everything you can on this site about infidelity. Buy the book, "Surviving An Affair", available fron the bookstore on this site or just about any bookseller.

In the meantime, please describe your marital history, provide your ages, children's ages, if any, and your assessment of what problems existed in your marriage up to now.

Unless something is extraordinary, I and others here will likely advise you to invite your husband to return home and strat this over. Whether he agrees or not is another matter.

Continue open and honest communication with him, but do not fixate on the other woman in your conversations. DO NOT whine and beg, wimper or fall apart when you talk with him if you can help it. DO express your hurt and pain and sincerely ask him to give your marriage a try - which can only happen together, not separated.

Much more advice will be forthcoming as you tell your story. Please read the link in my sig line below and all the embedded links.

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Thanks for your advice. I have added the details to my signature line, but here is a quick recap of my current situation. My husband and I have been married for five years, but we dated for five years before we were married. He moved out this past Saturday (March 5th) after I confronted him. As with everything, the discovery of the infidelity is only one of many issues. For the past year, we've been drifting apart. I think a big challenge is that I am the primary breadwinner in the relationship - and in has come out that he resents me for it. He felt that although I never did anything to make him feel that he was secondary - he feel he is viewed by everyone, including his family as secondary to me in the relationship. I work long hours and I am not very "domestic." He still wants me to cook, clean, etc after 12 -18 hour work days. We could never find a middle ground on this issue and I only recently realized what an issue it was to him.

My husband signed a nine month lease on an apartment a few miles away. So I do not think he has any plans to move back in. This is the distressing part.

It might be best if he stays in his own place if he is not willing to commit to no contact. An affair is a fantasy life - the light of reality usually extinguishes it.

The MB program suggest that you expose the affair to everyone, and not keep it a secret.

Stick with us, and we will help you through this.

Hi,

Sorry that you've ended up here but hopefully it will help you get through this very difficult time.

He said he wants to save the marriage. Do you want to save it?

If so he needs to end contact with the OW immediately. You cannot work on your marriage with another person involved. MB has strategies for getting rid of the OP. Read up on Plan A and Plan B and see if they are right for you. If you have any questions, ask. There are plenty of people who have been through the same thing that can offer you advice.

Once you have gotten rid of the OP then you can begin to work on fixing what is wrong in your marriage. Marriage counselling would be a good start.

Hang in there and try to stay strong. Do you have any children?

Miker

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sleeplessinvegas:
<strong>My husband signed a nine month lease on an apartment a few miles away. So I do not think he has any plans to move back in. This is the distressing part. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you want to save this marriage, ask him to move back in and eat any financial losses from the lease. If he uses this as an excuse - that's exactly what it is, an excuse. Any clear thinking, rational person will realize 9 months of wasted rent is a small price to pay to save a saveable marriage.

You didn't mention children, so I'll assume there are none.

So he has a big self esteem issue, huh? Perhaps the OW fills his need for admiration that he is defensive about in your marriage.

Recently realizing his issue with domestic support, do you see any reasonable middle ground available?

WAT

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will be gone for a week, and he will be gone for a week when I get back. He wants to work it out, but he does not want me to call or confront the woman, or tell my family until we work it out. He is convinced that we can get through it, but also does not want to end contact with this woman, and now that we are separated, there is no way for me to know for sure if he will.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, he does not want to work anything out, he moved out so he can carry on his affair unimpeded. What he wants is to keep you quiet while he carries on his affair. That is why he doesn't want you to contact the OW or tell his family. He doesn't want any trouble.

There are 2 things you can do to save your marriage. First is to expose the affair, contacting his family, your family, friends AND the OW. Secondly, you should work on attracting him back by meeting [trying to] his needs.

See, he doesn't want you to tell anyone because he knows the affair cannot survive unless it is kept secret. It thrives on secrecy and this propels the fantasy. He is probably lying to the OW, too, and he does not want his family to know. If the secret is exposed, it hastens the end of the affair because the affairees are forced to view the affair through the eyes of others. That bursts the fantasy bubble.

Those are the first steps that I would suggest taking. It is not uncommon that simple exposure ends the affair right away. That is a best case scenario, but it is the single most effective tool you have in your arsenal.

And I would suggest doing what you can to get him to move back. Separation can only harm your postion because now he is free to carry on his affair. That is why he wanted to separate in the first place. You can't work on a marriage if 1/2 of the equation is not there.

We do not have any children. We were trying. I found out about six months ago that I would only be able to conceive via invitro. This made me very depressed and withdrawn. I still wanted to try, but we never moved forward. I was concerned that I would not get the emotional support needed and then he began to question whether he wanted children.

He also told me that the woman he is seeing does not know about me and hinted that it would be over if I contact her again. First he said that he talked with her about the issues that we were having. He said he met her for drinks but then comments he made while we were talking seemed to indicate a more intimate relationship, like he has probably been to her place too. I have her phone # and it is taking all of my will power not to call her -- only because I cannot get a straight answer from him and I need to know if it even worth fighting for.

Right now, I don't know if I want to save my marriage. It is an improvement from yesterday. Yesterday I just wanted a divorce.

I would also try and find out who the OW is and see if she is married or lives with her parents. You would want to also contact her husband if there is one, and possibly her parents.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sleeplessinvegas:
<strong>

He also told me that the woman he is seeing does not know about me and hinted that it would be over if I contact her again.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It won't be "over" if you contact her [they all say this to threaten their spouse into silence <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ]but the truth is it will be over if you don't break up the affair. He will be mad if you call her, but thats ok.

He is trying to get you to help him protect his secret. You see that, don't you?

worthatry - I am not sure if he wants to work it out and I do not know if I am strong enough to invite him back -- yet. Part of me feels that if he has feelings for someone else, why should I have to compete with someone else for his love and affection.

He recommended counseling and I will set it up. He said the lady he is seeing reminded him of me in the early days and he did not want to mess things up with her in the event that things did not work out with us when we went to counseling. When I got even angrier (which was a mistake now, I know), he did not get it that he could not maintain the relationship and work on our marriage too.

He is very nonchalant about the whole thing, like he is just going throught he motions. I told him if he wanted a divorce, just ask for one, and I would not stand in his way. However, he assured me that he did not want one.

MelodyLane -

Do I really need to confront the OW and get everything out in the open? I am just nervous about the way I will respond when I talk with her -- and what he might do to the house if he finds out that I spoke with her. I am out of town, maybe I willl call her when I get back next week. I just need time to think and get my emotions under control so that I do not have a complete breakdown on the phone with the OW.

I also need time to think about what I really want. If in the end, I feel that I cannot get past what he did and my marriage is not worth saving -- does it really even matter? I just want the decision to be about me -- not my reaction to what he did to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sleeplessinvegas:
<strong> MelodyLane -

Do I really need to confront the OW and get everything out in the open? I am just nervous about the way I will respond when I talk with her -- and what he might do to the house if he finds out that I spoke with her. I am out of town, maybe I willl call her when I get back next week. I just need time to think and get my emotions under control so that I do not have a complete breakdown on the phone with the OW.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sleepless, if you don't care to save the marriage, then I wouldn't suggest bothering to call her unless you wanted to gather information for a divorce.

BUT......if you want to save your marriage, it is a GREAT IDEA to call her up. I suspect your H has lied to her about being married which is why he is terrified for you to call her. He didn't make that idle threat for nothing!

I will just tell you that my H's affair ENDED THE DAY I called the OW. That was the end of that! My H had lied to her about his marital status and she was furious. She sent him a scathing email, ccing me, telling him off for lying to her and ending all contact.

Your H is very afraid that you will call her, because he knows it will ruin his affair.

So, if you do decide to save it, that is exactly where I would start. I think you have a great resource just waiting to be used.

Sleepless,

Yes deciding whether your marriage is worth fighting for is probably your first big decision. Saving a marriage is going to be lots of work and it'll probably involves you doing 90% of the work through the first bit until you get rid of OW and WH commits to the marriage. Then a lot of work from both of you in recovery.

There are lots of success stories on here, so it can be done. But there are also lots of failed attempts and seemlingly hopeless cases. It depends on your situation and what you want. The facts are that most affairs end and then you are faced with restoring all the damage that has been caused. I've heard that it can make your stronger even than what it was before if you are successful. On the otherside is there can be lots of false recoveries and failed attempts which ultimately end in the marriage failing anyways. Only you can decide....

If its worth anything... I never got past the "Do I want to save the marriage?" stage. I never did decide to commit 100% to wanting to save it. WW made no attempt either so I am headed towards divorce. I had three young people invested in the marriage as well. That path has not been easy either and has been very emotionally tough but I do think it was the right choice for me.

So take your time and figure out what you want and be strong. You'll survive either way and become a stronger, better person.

All the best,

Miker

Ditto Mel and Miker - what do you wnt? If you want a chance at saving your marriage, you have NO CHOICE but to reveal the secrecy of the affair to the OW. Isn't this intuitive? For all you know, she abhors adultery and will send your H packing as soon as she knows the truth. Will this make your H mad? You bet. Will your marriage end as a result of him being mad? Maybe. Will it end as a result of an uninterupted affair? Undeniably. Which do you prefer?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sleeplessinvegas:
<strong> -- and what he might do to the house if he finds out that I spoke with her.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly what kind of man is he? A Neanderthal?

The simple fact that he does not want you to speak to the OW ought to tell you all the reason you ought to. Think about it.

WAT

Hello sleeplessinvegas(siv),

I agree with the other's,naturally.Exposing the A is critical.Whether or not you save your marriage remains to be seen but I would not hesitate letting the OW know that she is involved with a married man or,if she already knew that,that she is involved in the destruction of your marriage.

More often than not,it turns out that the OW(OP) is already well aware that the person they are involved with is married.This speaks volumes to what kind of people they are,knowingly staying involved with a married person despite the fact that they have a wife/husband at home and maybe even children.It completely disgusts and angers me on so many levels.

So,if it helps,maybe you could use "bullet points" in your discussion with the OW.This way you can just mention the facts: he is married,you value your marriage(want to save it?) and that you need her to stay away so you can work on this,you will expose this to X,etc.Normally they do not care what you say and it only fuels their desire to heap more pain on you and try to get the WS to defend them but that isn't your concern.You should let your feelings be known,once,and then concentrate on your WH.Expose to anyone that is connected to this sordid A.

It is normal to waffle back and forth with the feelings of uncertainty.Not knowing if you should stay or go,work on the marriage or not.You have been terribly hurt and most people's reaction is to flee but then get drawn back to the situation because the very one that is supposed to help you with such pain is the one who caused it all.Most people cannot just end their marriages or contact with their spouse.Afterall,you are married and have shared a history together.

The OW,she is just living on borrowed time.Of course your WH and the OW think that what they have is special.They are revealing initmate details about eachother's lives right now that is completely inappropriate.If your WH had problems in the marriage he had a responsibility to talk to YOU,not some stranger.This is the crux of why A's happen.For more insight into this I recommend a book that many of us have read: "NOT Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.It's excellent.I have half my book highlighted.

No one can tell you whether or not to stay in your marriage siv,but at the very least,I would hope that if you valued marriage and your vows at all,you would try to make this work so one day you will not look back with regret that you never tried.Afterall,this is probably the biggest test of wills here regarding your marriage.Are you going to give up without a fight?

My marriage is ending and I am going through a terrible D BUT,I can feel good about the fact that I did everything I could,on my part,to try and save my marriage.I have no regrets about that.I can tell my children one day that mom did all she could.My WH,well,that is an entirely different story that he will have to explain to his children one day,if he has the courage.He did nothing to save our marriage and threw everything away for some homewrecker.I can live with myself.I honestly don't know how he does.

Stay Strong now.We are here for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

O

Thanks everyone for all of your advice. I have decided that I am going to contact the OW, but I am going to wait until this weekend so I can do it from home. I am on the road and I think I need the stability of being in a familiar place to do this. Only a hand full of people know that we are separated - a few of his friends and 2 of my friends. I also told my sister yesterday and asked her to keep my confidence until I decided what to do. I tried to make an effort and talk with him, but he just got agitated because he said he did not want to keep having the same conversation over and over again and he was tired and wanted to sleep. I know when I contact her, it will cause more conflict, but at this point, I don't feel I have any other choice.

He is going home alone to see his family next week (they still do not know we are separated, and does not plan on telling them). Although it makes me uncomfortable, I still cannot deal with revealing everything to everyone yet. I just need time to get my emotions under control first and I want us to do it calmy together - instead of with all of the emotion - is this me living in a fantasy world?

We are going to see a marriage counselor on March 21st, and that will be a good first step. I am only willing to work on the marriage if he commits to meeting me half way and ending all contact with the OW. When I originally found out, he said that she did not know about me and he wanted to keep it that way so if things did not work out between us, he would not mess things up with her. I do not know who he is anymore, so I am willing to try to be understanding -- to a point.

If this does not work, Plan B is the only other option I see.

Are you close to his family? What do you expect their reaction to his affair would be - even beyond the news of the separation?

I suggest you tell them before he goes to visit them. Otherwise, you are helping him keep his secret.

Think about it. Why does he NOT want them to know?

We've seen this over and over and over. I can even predict what he'll say after his family finds out from you - "I didn't want them to know because I felt that we'd be back together soon. Now YOU'VE RUINED THAT CHANCE!!!"

Take it to the bank.

But if you don't tell them, he's reinforced that his secret is secure and he'll carry on, thinking he's getting away with it.

Vegas - we know these people better than they know themselves at the moment. Has he said, "I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you"?

He will.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sleeplessinvegas:
<strong>We are going to see a marriage counselor on March 21st, and that will be a good first step.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What reasonably you would expect to be a good first step will be a disaster - unless you are prepared for what will happen. Again, we've seen it all before. Counseling with a fogged up WS is usually a waste of time and money. Unsuspecting and uninformed BSs go in having high expectations, but their hopes get dashed by either a stubborn WS who KNOWS they are only going through the motions to placate their BS - so they can say they tried - or by a counselor who is not pro-marriage or otherwise can't find their [censored] with both hands - or both.

That said, we can get you horsed up for this because you SHOULD go through with it to gain some intel.

Plan B may be in your near future, but not yet. Certainly not until all exposure options have been exercised.

WAT

Sleepless,

Although I am a relative newcomer to this site and my sitch was slightly different, we also have some similarities. I too am, and always have been, the primary income earner in my marriage, also 3 to one. Although it has never come up, and my H sure enjoys the lifestyle it allows, I think that it might be somewhat of a male ego, self esteem issue.

Don’t make any hasty decisions re what you want right now. In the beginning, I waive red back and forth from never wanting to see FWH again, to wanting him dead, back to wanting to work things out and then back again.

At this point, the heck with what he wants, expose the A to the OW and her family if you can find out who she and they are. Tell his family, tell his friends, tell the milk man.

In spite of many clear indicators, I ignored them all; it took 8 months for my d-day. By then, my FWH had ended the A, but there was still email and phone contact. He thought it would be OK as long as the PA had ended. Well, when I talked to OW, she expected me to feel pity for her since she was “in love” with my H. She had spent 6 months trying to convince him to leave me, which was never his plan (Cake eater). She had a fantasy that he would move across the county, marry her, raise her two young sons, and support them all at the standard of living we enjoy.

Boy was she surprised to learn that I was the one providing the income that supported our lifestyle, not him. You see, in the “alternate reality” of the affair, he had plenty of money to “act” the part of big spender. Sure, his company paid his travel expenses and I paid the bills back home.

Once the bubble was burst on him saving her from a dull life of an unemployed, unattractive, loser and providing for her, she never tried to contact him again. Since he had no desire to ever see or hear from her again, NC was quick and clean.

He has not told me the he is not in love with me anymore, but I am sure he will. I talked with him last night and I told him that I still loved him, and he did not say anything in return - just ok, I'll talk to you later. It really made me feel like crap and upset me all over again. I started to think if I really did love him anymore - and if maybe he was trying to get me to hate him so that he can just be free to move on with his life. I think when we see the counselor I will know if he is sincere, or if he is just going through the motions.

I am usually pretty strong, so I do not know why I am acting like a doormat now. I just hate conflict, so on top of the situation, this is my worse fear. I also think that although the affair is what I am responding to and focusing on, it is only one of the many things that are wrong with our marriage and simply ending the affair is not going to make everything ok.


Both my sister and my friend both feel that in the end, he would not divorce me and will come back and apologize, simply because he cannot maintain the quality of life he is used to on his own. Therefore, whatever happens, I think it will be my decision. I just cannot picture myself being married to a man that secretly hates me, but is keeping up appearances for his own selfish reasons.

I am very, very close to his family - and I think this is part of the issue too. Before we separated and did talk, he told me he felt he was secondary to me in the relationship, even in his family's eyes and that he knew it was his issue, because I never did anything to him to make him feel that way. He also said that he felt like he had to ask my permission to spend money - which is not true - we just purchased a house and we took out a home equity loan to make put in window treatments, landscaping, etc - once we got the loan, he wanted to by a Corvette - I told him no -- not because I earn more than him, but because it was not an expense that I thought we could afford -- boy am I happy I said no.

He is not very close to my family - he has always been a bit distant towards them -- and my brothers already do not like him -- I just do not want to add fuel to the fire. Also, because we both live so far away, I just do not want my mother or anyone to worry until I have it figured out. Our families are extremely emotional and opinionated, and I have never been one to air anyone's dirty laundry, including my own. Is it wrong to want to tell his family, but leave mine out of it for now?