This is my first post, so please bear with me. My life has been in complete turmoil for the past year or so, and I am begging for some answers and support. I know many who post have strong religious beliefs. Please don't take this as offense, but I'm not seeking religious advice nor judgement but simply support and constructive suggestions for the situation that I find myself today ...

I’m a WF who just recently (9 days ago) ended my 1-year A w/ the OM, so that I can sort things out in my head. I have been married for nearly 13 years, and here’s our story ... My H and I met in college. After 8 short months, we were pressured into getting married because he elected to join the military. Although our basic values were alike, we soon discovered that our interests were completely different, aside from sex. Due to heavy financial stress and boredom, we fought constantly in the beginning. Once we left the military and our careers began to take shape, we became completely focused on advancement, even our sex life fell to the wayside. Our relationship continued to deteriorate, and physical intimacy became a thing of the past, but we hung on.

5 years ago my company offered me a promotion which required relocation, and we thought that perhaps having a fresh start in a new town was the answer to our marital problems. Instead, it exacerbated the situation. After his brief consulting contract ended, my H never looked for another job (says he can’t stand rejection). He became depressed, despondent, over-weight and obsessed with online computer games. While I worked 12-14 hour days trying to support the 2 of us, he would be online. When I got home, the house would be a wreck, all the while I still cooked, cleaned and looked after all our household needs. Although we were financially burdened with my single income, he’d spend thousands of dollars (sometimes monthly) on his hobbies. I fought, begged and pleaded with him, and nothing worked/changed. I became resentful, lost all respect for my H and eventually gave up. At that point, I badly wanted to end my M but felt guilty for leaving him in that state.

After 2 1/2 years, we decided to return to our hometown where both of us found new jobs. Although my H’s confidence slowly returned, and I forgave him for what happened, my feelings toward him didn’t change. I felt like we were roommates, just co-existing. Since we had no common interest, we spent all our leisure time apart. That’s when I met the OM and began the EA. He was fun, care-free, attentive and caring. We were compatible in every way (esp. our interests). He was a breath of fresh air. To be closer to the OM, I moved out of the house; our EA turned into a PA.

Eventually, my guilt about my A consumed me, which adversely affected my relationship with the OM. To appease both sides, I resorted to deception which destroyed my self-image. My relationship w/ the OM became a rollercoaster ride that I can’t seem to (and didn’t really want to) hop off.

An important note: Once I left, my H completey changed his tune. Says that his views and interests have now changed and so have his habits and hobbies, although every time we spoke, he generally spends 90% of the time complaining about his job and talking about his old hobbies. On paper, my friends would all agree that my H is a good catch. He’s charming, handsome, polished, and makes good money ... and he seems to adore me. (Note money is never a consideration for me, as I’ve always made more and am the saver in the family.)

9 days ago, I finally came clean with both my H and the OM about my situation; it did feel good. Although both felt cheated and hurt, both want to work things out. However, now, instead of the confident, happy, self-assured person that I was a year ago, I’ve become depressed, confused and unsure. I’m petrified to make the wrong decision. So, I’m begging that someone please help me answer some very difficult questions. Again, I ask that you please not pass judgement but rather provide constructive answers …

1. Is there a point of no return in a non-abusive relationship?
2. If there’s such pain with withdrawal, could your gut/heart be telling you something? Meaning, if the OM is actually a good person who makes you happy, could that relationship not work if you chose to go for a D?
3. How do you know if someone temporarily changes his ways just to get you back versus it truly is a permanent change in the person?
4. If one chose to “stick it out” in a M – past withdrawal, past the hurt, past the past, how long does it really take for the feeling of love, or just mutual admiration/respect/trust to come back? What are the steps that must happen? What if they don’t happen? How long do you try before you give up?

Thank you for reading and answering my post.

~ Whisper

Whisper, I think a FWS will help you more when the US wakes up later today.

Right now I would congratulate you on having the grit to DO something about your situation and tell you that finding yourself on this site is likely to be a blessings to you.

You have a lot to learn. Your post reads like a justification of your affair, which , in time, you may not agree with. Many or most WS/FWS arrive here with similat views but change them over time and with education.

OM is not a 'good person' unless you think that people who screw other peoples spouses are 'good people'. Whether he could make you happy depends on your definition of happiness.

In any case the stats for affair-derived marriages ar every poor indeed. Less than 10% make it past three years.

Stay with the site, as I say our wonderful FWS may be along later to help you with more appropriate advice.

Hang in there - you have taken a step on the path to recovery, and the folks here will help you if you let them.

The most important thing you must do now is to write a NO CONTACT letter to your OM and adhere to it. You must take extraordinary precautions to never see, speak to or otherwise contact OM ever again. This isn't spite, its required to help you through the addiction of you affair.

All blessings.

Wisper

No 2X4's from me. Have you got the book His Needs Her Needs? In it there is a work sheet that will help you and Your H to find common intrest to help build the intimate relationship you desire. As long as your H wants to work it out your marriage can be better then ever before.

1. Is there a point of no return in a non-abusive relationship?

Only if one spouse refuses to try to work it out.

2. If there’s such pain with withdrawal, could your gut/heart be telling you something? Meaning, if the OM is actually a good person who makes you happy, could that relationship not work if you chose to go for a D?

You have built up a emotional attachment with a man other then your husband. You will have to make a choice on which one you want and cu off ALL contact with the other. I encourage you to go back to your husband if he will have you and it is non-abusive like you say. Most affairs that lead to marriage lead to devorce because they were built on deciet.


3. How do you know if someone temporarily changes his ways just to get you back versus it truly is a permanent change in the person?

You can never know but there is a thing called Policy of Joint Agreement on this site so read it and how it works. You both will have to give up some things to find time to do things that both of you like. Get the book HNHN's.

4. If one chose to “stick it out” in a M – past withdrawal, past the hurt, past the past, how long does it really take for the feeling of love, or just mutual admiration/respect/trust to come back? What are the steps that must happen? What if they don’t happen? How long do you try before you give up?

Only the two of you can tell how long it will take and when it won't work. The more time you spend together having fun the faster the recovery will be. Everyone's marriage is different. A second book to get is called Love Busters. It will help the two of you to stop doing things that hurt each other or push each other away. Reading these books together would be a great start.

I'm so happy that you came to this site. There are better people to talk to here then me so stick around for as long as you and you H need. My W strayed twice and I'm still in love with her. So it can work for you.

RHM

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR EVEN REPLYING! You've no idea what it means to me to just be able to talk openly about my situation and get some constructive, real-life answers. I've read through this website (esp. the Infidelity Section) at least 5 times, from beginning to end and have completed every worksheet with my H. My problem is this ... (for example) on ID Love Busters, I wrote a novel while he wrote a couple of trivial lines (like I wish she would brush her teeth differently). I feel like he's just not being honest with me and didn't want to write anything that would "hurt my feelings." I just feel like he's going through the motions to get me back, which undermines the Policy of Joint Agreement and my trust. The other worksheets are similar. He'll go to MC w/ me, but not IC.

Not to justify, but simply clarify something ... the OM didn't realize I was still married until I finally came clean 10 days ago. When I first moved out, I mentioned I was filing for a D (which I was in the process of doing). I just never went through with it, and didn't tell the OM. I'm fairly certain he would not have asked me out otherwise. Yes, I concur that a relationship based on deceit is still that. That's why I'm hoping to get some answers so I can have a open and honest relationship.

Thanks again,
Whisper

Whisper - Welcome to marriagebuilders. There are several former WW's here that should be on soon to help you out. But I can tell you that you are doing the right thing, and your self-esteem will come back.

The support and care here is great. I'm glad you found us.

Wisper

We all make mistakes in life. First please tell me you have agreed to NC with the OM. That means none for any reason. If you need something you forgot send a freind and no messages threw anyone to him or from him. That is important to rebuilding trust. Don't worry this may take some time. Use the MC to help you get him involved. Tell the MC what you want to accomplish in your marriage. Wish you the best. Hope you don't mind prayers for your marriage. I won't push my beliefs. I just want what's best for your marriage.

Whisper, welcome to MB. I am glad you had the guts to come here and open up. It is difficult for FWS to do so. I am both a FWW and BS. I don't have much time right now, but wanted to respond.

9 days ago, I finally came clean with both my H and the OM about my situation; it did feel good. Although both felt cheated and hurt, both want to work things out. However, now, instead of the confident, happy, self-assured person that I was a year ago, I’ve become depressed, confused and unsure. I’m petrified to make the wrong decision. So, I’m begging that someone please help me answer some very difficult questions. Again, I ask that you please not pass judgement but rather provide constructive answers …

Coming clean with both men was a great start, not just for them to make their own decisions but for you to start to regain self respect. The moral answer I am sure you know is to give your M a chance if your H still wants you. Yes, he contributed to the state of your M but you made the decision to have an A. You are stil in contact with OM? I guess that as you said both want to try to work things out. You don't have a real R with OM, you realize that don't you? Any relationship built on deceit does not have a solid foundation. You need to go NC with OM to really clear your head and get a true perspective on your M. MC is a great place to start and I would suggest you start right away with a pro M MC.

Since we had no common interest, we spent all our leisure time apart. That’s when I met the OM and began the EA. He was fun, care-free, attentive and caring. We were compatible in every way (esp. our interests). He was a breath of fresh air Did you and your H take the questionaire for recreational activities? If not please do so. You may find you have more in common with your H than you thought. Spending leisure time apart often leads to the state your M is in. Harley's method requires 15 hours per week spent together.

Eventually, my guilt about my A consumed me, which adversely affected my relationship with the OM. To appease both sides, I resorted to deception which destroyed my self-image. My relationship w/ the OM became a rollercoaster ride that I can’t seem to (and didn’t really want to) hop off. It is an addiction that you can only kick cold turkey. Again, NO. Write the NC letter get your H to approve and mail it for you.

Hugs to you Whisper. I admire the fact that you are here. That is a HUGE first step in the right direction.

whisper
hi there. I too am a FWW and have gone through similar feelings and thoughts as you are now doing.
I guess the thing is here that you would not have broken up with the OM if you felt there was nothing at all between your H & you.
From my own experience guilt alone just does not do it. I think beneath the distrust and resentment you have towards your H you actually do have very deep feelings for him, they are just swamped at the moment with the addiction type feelings you have for the OM.

Please consider that as honestl as you can right now BUT be aware that so soon after breaking up witht he OM the OM will dominate your thoughts for a while.
Just because you have broken up with the OM doesn't mean your feelings will just fade away by themselves.

One of the big questions you will be asking yourself is something like 'are my feelings for my H deep enough, good enough, and worth fighting for? AND does he even want me back now???'
Very hard to answer right now.

You've taken the first step and there are plenty to go and it will be HARD. Maybe the hardest thing you've ever done.

You will need to look at your actions over the years of your M and consider what you DID to make it work or contribute towards its downfall.

OK the big resentment which comes across from your post is your H computer games /hobbies. Even his lack of a job desn't seem to be as anywhere near as strong as this.
So first of all you have knowledge of your H addiction - the computer games etc.

I suspect this is tied into your H feelings of powerlessness and not being able to be the bread winner when you moved the first time. My guess is he felt he was a failure and your loss of respect for him was probably very evident. Its a big thing for men regardless of what is said. Yes he probably needs IC on this BUT you cannot demand it or expect it. If you work on the M and show him you want to commit to it THEN he may be open to you discussing this with him down the track.

It is a good sign your H is working on himself but can he keep those changes without slipping back into old habits? dont know.
Hes thinking how can I EVER trust you again or expect anything from you other than lies.

You see, its tough. For both of you.

However if you are really serious about wanting to give your M a REAL go, even with your affair and his adictions to the computer etc and your both past poor relationship actions, then you MUST MUST commit to NO CONTACT - NC - with the OM.
No calls or emails or messages to say goodbye, or forgive you or ANYTHING other than what we call here a NC letter. Very simply its lteer from you to OM saying OM please do not ever contatc me again as I wish to work on my M with my H and commit to my M. Simple direct nothing else.
Address it and let YOUR h post it so he knows it has gone . This is a small but important step in rebuilding the trust.

Then hardest of all you must keep it.

I'd suggest MC for you both as a must ... but seek a pro marriage one.

As for his 'minor' things well remembe this, what is minor to you may be major for him. He might think the same about your thoughts.
But even if you are right, then it shows hes not ready to trust you with this info. Dont worry its not unusal so let it go bu encourage gently his need to be honest with you. Tell him it s ok for him to say things with may hurt you, You're a big girl tell him you can handle it and if ther are tears well you'll handle that with him too. And there will be for sure.
This stuff HURTS.

These links may help ....
Here is a good link to start of

The Path to Recovery: Johnh39's complement to WAT's quick-start guidelines


and to some handy site info as well
Acronyms, Smilies, UBB Codes

please keep keep posting and ask questions and we'll try to help you through this. You'll get lots & lots of replys I guess and different response. Take on board those you like and ignore the ones which may not be very nice. Now that does not mean you wont get some 2z4's every now & then, you will. I still do ... LOL

As you learn the methods and skills here you'll find it works, really does, but nothing is guaranteed in this world.

read read read and cme abck & ask questions.

Ok going to end it here for now as it really is a lot of info and you can't do all things at once, going to take a long tme for both of you.

All the best [[[[hugs]]]]
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks to all who have replied. You've all been so wonderful and supportive. Just so everyone knows, I have had NC w/ the OM for 10 days now. I decided to post because I thought my heart was going to explode. After crying for 3 days straight while trying to work things out w/ my H and getting absolutely NOWHERE, I finally decided to post. Truth be told, NC was a joint agreement b/t OM and me ... until I've made a decision. He demanded NC until he sees the filed D paperwork. I'm sticking to NC until I figure all this out.

To all the FWS who had a seemingly good R with the OP (meaning, no fights, no apparent problems, etc.), what prompted you to return to your spouse? I hate to admit this, but right now in my state of mind ("fog"?) the only 2 reasons for me to stay in the M is guilt and the fear of being alone. And, my biggest fear is having to go through this again 2,3, 5 years from now since nothing worked in the past. I'd rather just jump off a very rocky cliff than return to this point.

Sorry to be such a pessimist, but I just can't seem to see the light at the end of a very long tunnel.

Whisper

Hi Whisper,

I am also a FWW, and I also want to congratulate you for taking the first step <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

You sound very depressed and confused. Have you talked to a doctor about your depression? Have you talked to a counsellor? I would strongly recommend both of those. For me, IC (individual counselling) was a life saver and really was sometimes the only thing that showed me that it could be possible for me to find a way out when all looked bleak.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I hate to admit this, but right now in my state of mind ("fog"?) the only 2 reasons for me to stay in the M is guilt and the fear of being alone. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just wanted to comment on what you said here. I can understand having a fear of being alone - I do too, almost everyone does, I think. But if you were to really live alone for a while, I am sure you would get over this. There are many people on this site who are recovered in themselves and content in their lives, even though they are now living alone.

In my experience, guilt is different. Guilt, for me, comes from knowing that I have hurt someone deeply, betrayed my integrity, and become a person I did not respect. For me, guilt can only be overcome by actively doing something about it, by taking responsibility, planning a life with integrity, by walking the talk. It takes a long, long time and its not easy at all. But if you take it one day at a time, you look at it as a journey of self-discovery and redemption, you can improve things.

Good luck and keep posting!

Hi whisper i think i am in similar situation as you are only thing I still with my OM and thinking what can I do. But you know something I dont know whether my husband will accept me back. At least your is trying as like you i try not to sign any divorce paper course of guilt and want the best for my daugther. How are things with you now and husband. Can you at least advice me. My OM as well is pressuring for the paper and my husband dont want to comeback and i'm afraid that being alone and facing the withdrawal alone too. everybody ask me to leave my OM and take one step but i'm not wiling to loose all of them and face the depression alone. What shall i do? I dont even know if my husband accept me back what if he still think of the past and tortures me and than will i not think of going back to my OM which the chance for my OM to accept me back is very little.And plus his family is against us due to me not getting the divorce officially.Help me.............

Whisper-

I am not an FWW, I am a betrayed wife, but I just wanted to commend you on your effort....every Betrayed Spouse should be so lucky.

The things you are feeling now are withdrawl from the OM, Affairs are addictions, so you will have withdrawl symptoms similar to someone who is coming off of a drug.

I wish you the best of luck in working out your problems, only one little piece of advice from me: If they'll cheat *with* you, they'll cheat *on* you, I say that because the relationship you have with OM was built on lies and secrecy. (I'm not calling you a liar, it's just in order to maintain an affair, there are people who have to be lied to) That would be akin to building your house in the sand.

Tough road ahead for you, but I believe you are doing the right thing in seeking help, that shows me that you do have love for your husband.

Keep up the good work sweetie,

-Caren

<small>[ March 10, 2005, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

Kerenasha Raj,

I wish I were in a better position to give advice, as I'm neck-deep in my own withdrawal/fog, but I'll do my best ... I believe I have learned much from this past year, particularly of my own weaknesses and fears. I was married young - 20 to be exact. Before college, I wasn't even allowed to date, so I've never really been on my own. With this, I, too, am deathly afraid of being alone, always have. That's why my decision to return to my failed M was very tough. I was caught between 2 men who both say they love me, while the OM met my EN and my H did not. So who to choose? I can't speak for your situation, but I elected to cut things off w/ the OM and return to my H because 1) I needed to feel whole again. My desire to regain self-respect outweighed my fear of being alone. 2) I needed a complete separation from the OM in order to just "clear my head" so I can figure out what I really want out of a relationship and what truly makes ME happy. Having the OM in the picture provides a false sense of safety that would not exist in any normal M or R. 3) I know deep down that a R that resulted from an A can never truly last, as it is based on deceit. One or both will eventually cave in to the distrust. In fact, the 1 thing I've noticed about my R w/ the OM is that I'm always distrustful even though I'm the one who's married and having the A. I'm always projecting my own guilt on the OM. In time, he will likely feel the same as he knows that I left my H for him. Doesn't make for a very healthy R, does it?

So, I decided to finally come clean w/ my H because I thought that after all the selfish things I've done and the agony I've put him through, it was the least I could do. I was surprised that my H actually still wanted me back and is now doing everything he can to make our R work. I consider myself quite fortunate from that regard.

With this all being said, I want you to know that I empathize with your pain. Every minute of my waking (and sometimes sleeping) day, I am tormented by my memories of the A. But, what has helped is the amazing support I've received from posting and knowing that no matter what happens, I can stand a little taller and am on my way to get my true self back. No fear nor weakness is worth losing that!

I really hope this helps and that everything will work out for you.

Hang in there!

Whisper

Whisper,
I may ruffle some feathers with this one. Each R is different. Your OM didn't know he was cheating, so I don't think he falls into the same category as someone who cheats knowingly. The fact that HE wanted the NC shows that he has his head on straght. I'm not saying you should be with him especially if you want your M to work. If as you say there was not much of a R there from the beginning with you and your H, being alone for awhile may be the best thing. It's really not that hard. It's actually empowering. I got divorced from a man who was quite a jerk sometimes but not abusive. I felt guilty at first, but we had NOTHING in common and I was MUCH happier alone.
Just another side to ponder.
M