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Joined: Jul 2004
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FL-T2M, I am the night palpitations KING <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

They really make you panic but they're perfectly harmless. Its your heart re-synchronising its rhythm after running on adrenaline for a long time.
Breathe, chill. I used Passiflora Incarnata to help settle me too ( herbal gentle muscle relaxant).

I rarely get them now.

Pro sportsmen get palpitations like that.You're a pro marriagebuilder, take care of your self like a sportsperson ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

{{{FL-T2M}}}

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Hey FL - How are you feeling this morning? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

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FL,

Stop and think. Deep breaths.

Your concern for your husband is admirable. But you cannot hold yourself responsible for his happiness. His mood is his choice. You made it hard for him for a while, and now you are trying to make it easy for him to be in a good mood. To be happy. But it is his choice.

Stop and think. Remember the Principle of Superposition? Let's take the affair out of the equation. What if you hypothetically died prematurely in a good marriage? This too, would make him sad. Then time would heal his wounds and he would be happy again - if he chose to be. He could also choose to be a depressed widower for the rest of his life. Either way, it is his choice.

He has stayed with you. I know the reasons you fear he is staying. I can tell you hogwash. I am a guy, and the reasons you are worried about would NOT keep me if I felt like I had to leave. He is staying because somewhere inside there is hope.

What truly good and wonderous thing of this world that has meaning is gotten frivolously?

Your children are good and wonderful, because of the time and patience you sowed in raising them.

Your marriage will react the same way.

Don't let the enemy beat you down so badly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">James 4:7 (New International Version)
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are doing the submit part. You are being the wife you should be to the best of your ability. Now you need to work on the RESIST part. It is an ACTIVE word. You are not doing this and as a result you are being plagued with second thoughts and panic attacks.

You do have the strength to resist. I hear it in your voice. It is not easy all the time. But you can do it.

Much love and prayers,

NCWalker

Joined: Dec 2003
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i wanted to let you all know, i am up, made it to work a bit late but oh well. thank you all for your posts. i don't know how i would be dealing with all this without your love and kindness. i'll post more later. i want to leave early today and be able to drive H to airport instead of him having to take a cab. i also want to slip in some chocolate coins and a note for him to find when he unpacks. i'm trying to think of other things to do. if the hotel has the ability to leave voice msgs, i plan to leave one each day when i know he is out of the room so when he returns he will get a msg.

i was just thinking, maybe i should find and start going to a MC on my own, seperate from my IC. at IC, we don't focus too much on marriage stuff, it's not really appropriate. or maybe i should focus more on marriage issues even with IC? is that appropriate. somehow i was just thinking that maybe if i am going to a C for MC, H may find his way into joining me. plus it would do me good to have strictly MC work going on along with IC work.

i guess i posted more now after all.

RIF, i don't hate myself really. i hate what i have done in the past. there is actually a difference. i used to really hate myself, it's not like that anymore, i think that is the only reason i don't try to inflict pain on myself anymore. there have been times when i would start, out of habit, but it actually does not have the same effect it used to have. it just seems stupid to do now. that is a good sign i think.

LINY, thanks for the hi and support. i really have lost track of how you and lynn are doing. i know you are having work issues (not sure if you lost your job or if you switched to day shift, which actually might be a good thing in disguise). i also heard you left for a while and you were struggling with gambling for a bit. however, even though i can't always keep up, you and brown are mentioned in my prayers, i thank God for all of MB and all here fighting to improve themselves and their marriages, but i also focus on specific people and you two are there. i just wanted you to know that.

bob, not sure if you know how much i follow what is going on with you. i guess i just wanted to say thanks for sharing so much. regarding Passiflora Incarnata, i did a search on the web, did or do you take it as a daily supliment or just when you started to feel bad or if you could not sleep? i did read this "However, some experts suggest not using Passion Flower with MAO-inhibiting antidepressant drugs." i'm on zoloft, not sure if that is a MAO-inhibiting antidepressant. i guess i could easily look taht up too...

benydryl does help but the next day i feel so grogy. i'm having a really hard time right now focusing, i'm very tired still.

thanks Jen for those words.

ncwalker, how? i am the queen of pro-action at work, drives some people a bit nuts, i think cuz if forces them to attempt to be the same a bit too. i love the word pro-active. but how do i do what you are saying? pray more? fight the neg thoughts? i don't mean to be dense..

FF, how are you feeling today. i'll have to go check in with you on your thread.

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FL,

I will explain without getting spiritual.

It is simple, you train yourself to resist the negative thoughts (the devil).

Ever notice how different kids learn differently? Some by reading, some by hearing, some by experienceing, some by discussing. I mean, kids learn from all four, but kids have a method that works "best" for them. That is the foundation of training yourself. Find a method that works and use it to train yourself.

If your IC is "good" (IMHO) he/she will be trying different techniques to get you to focus on the positive instead of the negative. You need to find yourself a technique to learn to help you RETRAIN the way your neurons in your brain actually fire. YEARS of reacting "badly" for your own mental health has developed habits in the way your neurons fire. So they "naturally" react in an unhealthy way. Why? You trained 'em that way.

Like a student of martial arts, or a ballet dancer, doing the same moves ad nauseum. They are developing their "muscle memory." So that they can execute a complex maneuver without thinking. The repetition "wears in" a neruon firing sequence which becomes a preferred path for the signals from the brain to the body to follow. And then to us, it looks effortless.

Bottom line: If you want a conditioned response, you have to condition for the response.

Here are "some" techniques from various situations. Try 'em. Stick with what works. But it takes time.

If you tend to get worked up over your phone calls at work, put a note on your phone that says "I WILL CHOOSE MY EMOTIONAL RESPONSE" so you see it BEFORE you answer the phone. Read it, say it, THEN answer.

When you are relaying how you reacted badly to your IC, you will invariably discuss how you could have done it better. You may be working on several issues. Pick the one that is MOST IMPORTANT to fix. When you discuss a good reaction in this area, reinforce it tactily. Some people pinch their fingers together. Some people tug on a special bracelet. Cross your fingers. Tug your earlobe. A tactile reminder (that you don't do out of habit.) This technique works well for some (not for me). Then, when you get in a situation, stop and perform the tacile reinforcement. It will give you pause and remind you of all the good responses.

Come up with a personal code of conduct. Like the Boy Scouts. Write it, print it, whatever on something you have with you all the time. (Mine is on the cover of my Dayrunner.) Then, when you have down-time, don't daydream, start to memorize FL's code of conduct. You will find it is there when you need it later. Add to this list, as you need to work on things. Mine covers the gamit - being a better engineer, husband, father, person.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exerpt from NCWalker's list as an example:
1) Never forget the assumptions that go with the theory.
2) Don't put off the documentation - do it as you hear it.
9) Joy can be found in any circumstance.
10) Always make sure the mission is understood when received and clear when given.
16) Always remember to consider the downstream effects of what you do.
19) Before starting, run through the circumstances for failure.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I keep adding to the list when there is something I need to work on. Keep it positive. It should be a list of what to DO, not a set of rules dictating what NOT to do.

Your first one might be:

1) I will not let a situation get the better of my emotions.
2) If I am thinking of something that bothers me, I will think of something else. (NOTE: You MAY actually want to spell out a happy thought to think about).

I don't know, FL. I have made this whole trip without heavy drinking, or ADs, or other things I consider crutches (sorry to everyone, don't mean to offend, but that is how I feel about that stuff). I have bad days. And when I do, I am usually kicking myself for not CHOOSING to have a good day.

All it takes is practice. Try different things. Don't worry if others think they are stupid. We are talking your emotional health here.

Reward yourself with something you enjoy on the good days - the days you "win" at this battle. DO NOT reward yourself for COMFORT. That will just start an addiction. If you want that carrot, you get it when you PICK your mood and not let the enemy get the better of you.

Discipline. Practice. Train yourself. Keep a journal of your progress, good and bad. Review it at the end of the week and steel your mind to do better the next week.

You WILL see improvement. Funny thing about that. We are happiest when we are improving, not when things are going good. If we were happiest when things are wonderful, why all the griping when we are on vacation?

Lean on me anytime.

NCWalker

Joined: Feb 2003
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I like Bob's advice. My personal favorite is Bach's Rescue Remedy. It helped me with my panic attacks.

Bach's Rescue Remedy

Also, Zoloft is not an MAO Inhibitor. It's an SSRI or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.

Dobie

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Hi FL.

I promised I would post a link to a post I did LONG ago. It was during my dreaded 4th of July incident. I was ministering to a FWW named Broken Vessel who has since left the board.

The thread was very emotional for me. I was in pain when I wrote it. She was in pain too and had no reason to continue. Through my pain, and my way of dealing with it, I gave her a picture of hope. That is what the thread was about.

A Picture of Hope

The link will take you to the page in the thread. My post is the 9th one down.

Hope it helps. It brought back a lot of pain for me reading it again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But it gave me hope, too. Which is the point.

Hugs and Prayers, NCW.

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NCW, all I can say is WOW. I really needed that today too. God bless you for sharing such a painful story during a horrible time in your own life.

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ncw, thanks for looking up that post. i don't recall reading it when you first posted it. i am quite sure i would of remembered it if i had, it is a very powerful story. i'm doing ok here. i've been tempted to go into an angry "i've never been good enough for him" type of mood, but i'm thinking i'm just not going to go there. i'm just going to keep living my life and keep being the best person i can be. i really appreciate your support ncw.

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Hi FL,

How are you today?

I just read ncwalker's post from last year.
I'm in awe. There are some amazing people on this site. I hope it helped you, it certainly did stop me in my tracks.

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hi smur,

i'm holding my own. H is out of town again until friday. going to just live my life as best i can, ya know? i'm not sleepy but i know i need sleep.

how are you doing?

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