Does anyone think a one time A is easier to forgive? I am at almost 3 months since dday, and W and I are getting along pretty good. She told me some stuff, a little confused on the answers, but I will never understand how she could have sex w/ another man.So I don't know that I can really understand the emotions or thoughts behind an A. She has gone through some depression, is very active in saving marriage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Is becoming more active in MC, book reading, showing affection, calling, I quess every thing I am looking for.
So, Why do I feel like she is getting away with A, She has not asked for forgiveness yet, Is this something I can expect or is it mere fantasy on my part.

WW/FWW's, have you ever apologized or ask for forgiveness? and why is it so easy just to put it behind you. And expect the BS to live with your A? I would like honest and frank answers if you so tell.

I am curious as to the state of mind, and whether forgiveness from the spouse made you feel or think differently about your spouse.

I know this thread will die soon, as all mine do, but I hope there are some WW/FWW that are willing to talk.

is it odd to kindof trust that it would never happen again? I don't believe it will.

Is forgiveness something that needs to be asked for?

My W had 3 ONS... and each one hurt like He**... but compaired to the long term emotionally connected A that she had, that was harder for me to deal with...

I think it's pretty common for the WS to want to move on much earlier than the BS... At some point, the WS needs to realize this and if they are really wanting to rebuild the M, then they need to slow down and be patient with the BS while they catch up...

I will also say that if the WS really starts working to rebuild the M, that at some point.. the BS will have to let go of any remaining hurt and anger in order to move forward. I got to that point and I finally realized that I was the one that was holding us back... Please don't missunderstand, the WS must do an awfull lot of work to earn the BS's trust... but at some point, if the WS is doing what they need to do... you'll have to make some hard choices about whether or not you want to hold on to your anger or not...

Semper Fi,
RIF

Hi Hurtnhead,

Sorry to hear about your pain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I am a FWW who had a ONS-type A. I don't know if its easy for me to answer directly, because my H hasn't actually forgiven me yet. He is working towards this, and we're doing MC.

Also, I don't know if I find it easy to put it behind me. I don't think I'll ever forget my A and the pain it caused. It led me to 6 months of IC that has given me much greater insight into myself, so I don't think I see myself in the same way at all. I am working on being aware of my weaknesses and changing those I can.

I don't think its strange for you to trust that it won't happen again IF: your W has properly understood why it happened and explained it to you, been completely open about everything, shown understanding and real empathy for your feelings, and of course ..... enough time has passed. I guess you'll know if/when that has happened.

Hurtnheart

Does it really matter? They all hurt EA, PA, or ONS. IMHO it isn't the act itself but the deceit and betrayal that eats at the core of the marriage and destroys the trust and oneness. Only a opinion from me.

RHM

HNH, I cn't comment on a ONS, AFAIK my Squid only had one affair and that was a horribly entangled EA/PA.

That hurt so much it almost killed me. * That * close.

Squid hasn't asked for forgiveness OR apologised yet. I used to think it was because she wasn;t sorry, and didn;t think she did anything wrong. But I am coming to believe it is because she is so dreadfully ashamed she cannot voluntarily look into the abyss yet.

I am not a FWS but I think the reason FWS want to put it behind them soon after withdrawal is because it is painful to re-examine their affair addiction behaviour.

Imagine it was you who had the affair and hurt your W. Would YOU want to keep raking over the ashes of your wrongdoing month after month ?

Yet we FBS need some of that to happen.

Recovery is hard mate. But we'll get through it, you and me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hurtnheart....
I may be wrong but my opinion based on experience and present state is that a ONS is far easier to work thru than a longstanding A that destroys the marital bond and accomplishments. I have experienced both and in retrospect the ONS hurt like hell and caused much turmoil. But sometimes these DO occur as a true mistake on behalf of the WS especially if alcohol is involved. There's no excuse for it and a ONS should not happen but they do. At least there is no fog to deal with.

My WS had a ONS and I have never forgotten it nor the pain but we put it behind us and enjoyed 13 more years of a good marriage with more bonding and growth than we had experienced previously. My WS offered a token apology but never showed the remorse I felt like she should have......nevertheless we went on. The A that ended our marriage was one that had a lot of attachment, dreams, and as a result major fog. It not only destroyed our marriage but the family unit disintegrated, financial devastation followed, and my WS has suffered irrepairable character damage. She of course has placed the blame on me because evidently I wasn't meeting her EN's.......not so. After MC including our son,..... the counselor, our son, our families, friends and support circle all agreed that my WS was trying to relieve a dream that was lost somewhere in her teen years (35 years ago). It has since evolved into a nightmare for all involved.

So IMO a ONS while challenging to work through can be put behind a couple and a good marriage can follow. Perhaps the same can happen after a protracted affair......this remains to be seen. As for me, I will require a more serious apology and will have to see remorse before I am able to attempt reconciliation. We all need help when we find ourselves in this situation and others can sometime give us insight. I have learned a lot since coming to MB and have gotten back on track with my life and I know I have a future with or without my WS.

We are all here in hopes of saving or reclaiming our marriage. We also try to help each other through experiences and the wisdom that comes with experience. This is only my opinion, perhaps some others have a different perspective that will answer your question.

Hurt...

When I first found out about my XW's affair it was presented as a couple of ONS with someone while out of town for work...now after 9 months of reconciliation and recovery I found that really was not the case. It was an affair that she planned. She was not honest with me. Let me use my imagination to determine what it really was. The subject still remains a taboo. She lied about social events that the man was at. She lied about the first time and the last. She answered questions like an attorney. Just answered specific questions. When I asked if he was with her at XXXX She said no. Well she took that to be was she with him in bed. NO!! I found out he was there but with others. When I recently found out that their last meeting involved him flying to a clandestine airport that she picked him up at, took him to a motel that she reserved, spent the night and took him BACK to the airport in the morning I was crushed (this happened over the weekend). This all happened over 5 years ago. 3 years before our divorce. I am crushed....because of the relationship....and she has resolved it to herself....yet I have not.....she gives me little and is concerned over why won't let go. She has not let me...I keep getting the truth..a spoonful at a time...it is beginning to look like I won't let go...but my God I want to....

So given the facts I think that ONS would be easier.....than knowing that the man knew more than I did. That she fell victim to a middle aged predator....and that she has just begun to see him for what he really was....a player....

My struggle continues...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ecxpa:
<strong> At least there is no fog to deal with.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not necessarily.

My H did experience the fog after his ONS. I don`t believe that ONS`s just happen. Even if there are drugs or alcohol involved. I think the seed must already be planted somewhere in the back of your mind...and then the drugs or alcohol just makes it easier to act.

About my H`s fog....for him the ONS was an experiment...he had imagined doing it for a LONG time before he found himself in the right place...at the right time...with the right OW...with enough social lubricant in him that gave him the "courage" to act.

His fog made him think the following...

"It was only once...so no harm done.

The OW wanted to sleep with me purely for the sexual thrill. She didn`t want anything else from me.

My W will NEVER find out. As long as I deny it it will NEVER come out.

And ONS can IMPROVE a marriage...make you appreciate your wife even more <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

The alcohol and drugs made me do it.

This was perfectly okay to do because EVERYONE else does it.

My W made me do this because she was overweight.

My ONS will not affect my M..."

Each and every one of these things came out of my H`s mouth. And if this isn`t fog talk I don`t know what is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

An ONS is a sign of something SERIOUSLY amiss IMHO. And it recovery should be done just as it is for a longer term A. Everything must be analysed and worked through. An ONS is just a precursor/first indicator for future marital problems. And if it`s not nipped in the bud it WILL happen again. And it won`t be just an ONS the next time around. It will be a fullblown A.

Hmmm...

I'm not sure what the point of the Q is. Are we deciding which of these two options to chose - so that we can do the maximum (or minimum) damage?

But, I'm here answering....

I think selfishness is the root in either case - whether it is a long-term A or a ONS. The character flaw that makes one possible is the same that would make the other possible.

My W's OM has been in the picture in one form or another for our entire marriage. So, in that sense, this A is not a ONS. But, on the other hand, if you believe my W (and I don't), there were only two PA events in that relationship (so far). She won't let him go. He's like a little puppy following her across the world - because they spent 100's of hours on the phone and it became an addiction for both of them.

I could forgive her completely. Really, I could. No problem. No regret. But, I do not believe that she is strong enough to volunteerly give him up. And he's still hanging around waiting for her - asking her to divorce me and marry him. Soon, he (31) will graduate - and will have some prospects of employment (now he works illegally in a gas station).

W has, for a long time, wanted to keep both of us. Usually, she sees some value in me. She sees that I provide for her far more that OM is currently able to provide. Usually she knows that she can trust me - that I love her and want to make her happy. I think that when she talks to him, he tries to persuade her that I'm bad for her and am giving her nothing good - that I'm taking advantage of her. When she listens to that, she's more ready to give me up.

I'm not waiting for her to be ready. She doesn't want a court battle, doesn't want to risk losing custody of our child, doesn't want to have Adultry on the record or to have to face evidence of it in court. For that reason, she will agree to a joint filing on mutually agreeable terms, but on my timeline.

I'm ready now. (I think)

-AD

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

HH,
I can relate --- I think ONS can hurt just as much! You must wonder if she is really telling the truth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> There is always a two edged sword it seems. Did she not know the person before? If so, this would give rise to a concern that if she would do this with a stranger, what about someone she really knew? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Then if it was with a person she has known, well that would make you think there is more to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

My X had A's with at least a couple guys & I honestly believe she had other ONS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
She apologised, but did not really act with any remorse.
I think your situation has a lot more hope than mine in that you DW is active in the recovery process. My X wanted nothing to do with any marriage recovery activity. She just wanted to sweep it under the rug & move on - Perhaps have her cake & eat it too.
I believe most WS's have a certain amount of guilt feelings & many are very proud & do not want to bring attention to their wrong choices.
Again, your DW seems to be repentent in the form of her actions & willingness to go to MC and all!
That is something I have not seen a lot of here and I truely believe that should give you some hope to build on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
It sounds like your DW is willing to offer insights as to what happened & why. This may be more painful, but I believe if you are to recover you have to go through this - In counseling is best.
I know it is difficult to process, but I believe they do this becasue of their own issues & not as an attack on us as such. I know we feel all the pain & they have, in a sense, their ego fed that they are desirable & wanted by more than just one guy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> The natural dynamics of all of this are skrewy for the BS!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
It is going to be a difficult journey for you, so you have to be patient. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Keep working on yourself because you deserve it!
Peace,
HH

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</small>

Thanks to all, here is a brief rundown of my sitch, so that maybe it will help you understand.

New guy starts at my W company. They get put on project together. Have massive phone time together, plus work time on project. When confronted, the response was "it is just work related" because they don't work together everyday, they have to talk on phone.(business consultant) I start IC/MC over jealosy issues. W comes to one session and tells same story, and that nothing has or will happen. (I do believe that nothing happened up to this point) I just knew it was not appropriate work relationship.
End of Dec 04, she spends night in town 45 min. away as to work late and didn't want to commute for 2 day project.
I notice sexy underwear missing, and call her on it. She still denies she was planning anything to this day, but anyway, she had A that evening, I find out through panty test, and call OM W, and confront my w that evening. Of course the blame game comes out, (I take full responsibility for my part, and am currently working on my issues)
She hesitantly starts to go to MC w/ me because of last visit w/ MC, but goes.
She does go through fog, She does not blame me for her actions of A, but for bad marriage. fast forward to today, both going to MC, Is showing she wants marriage, reading some books, showing affection, SF is more frequent, will talk relunctently(sp)about events of A, but not about the sex! spending more time together. she is calling me more now, we have been going out for desert every sunday afternoon together and plan on continueing this, and we go on a nice date once a month, last month was a night in a nice hotel just to hang out, but we are planning a nice dress up dinner soon, and even a weekend away in the next few months. but something nice every month.
We have 2 teenagers that we are working around, those with kids understand this.
So things are going really well. I just need to figure out what I really want to know.

So I am not sure if this classifies as a ONS or not. It was a one time night, and she has not called OM (except for work only, during business hours with people around and for short questions only) He does not pursue anything, he is working on his own M.
I know I would not be here if it was a prolonged A, I kindof think of it as a one time big mistake, but still have emotions of betrayal.

I love her with all my heart, just get confused sometimes on my feelings.

^

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurtnheart:
<strong>

I just need to figure out what I really want to know.

I know I would not be here if it was a prolonged A.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What would be your defintion of a prolonged A?

Why would you NOT want to work on recovery and go forward to have a happy M IF this were more than an ONS?

If it was more than an ONS do you want to know?

As you know I dealt with an ONS myself...H also had a longterm EA (different OW). The truth DID NOT come out all at once. H DID NOT confess either. I found all this out on my own and from others.

So obviously I had some serious trust issues. To this day I am still not sure that I know the full truth of everything...it may very well have been MORE than an ONS...he may very well have slept with his EA OW too...there could even have been others. I really do not know.

From day one however I knew that whether H slept with ONS OW only once or 50 times....recovery was going to be the SAME. Same goes for the EA OW....whether he slept with her or not...we had to have NC and do all of the recovery steps.

It is kind of odd...if there was more to the story I DID want to know about it....but I do not think I would have left my H JUST BECAUSE I found out it was a prolonged A...or there was more than one PA. I would have left him however IF he had not immediately jumped on the recovery bandwagon.

For me an ONS is JUST AS BAD as a prolonged A. And of course there was that EA too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I am thinking your W DOES know how you feel about this. Right...

But this could pose a problem for you....

Now of course I do not know your W...I do not know if it was in fact only an ONS...maybe it was maybe it was not.

But if it was not...if it happened MORE than once...and you are SO CERTAIN you would not be there if it were more than an ONS....

How do you think this bodes for your recovery....

IF it was more than an ONS and IF your W thinks you will leave her if she confesses the truth OR you find out on your own....Do you really think she is going to be able to go full throttle into recovery... and how could she possibly ask for forgiveness if you do not know the whole story....

You are going to have to change your thinking here...

It may have only been and ONS or it may not. You might not ever know for sure....

But either way you need to think about this....you need to be able to want recovery whether she slept with the OM once or 50 times...

You need to do this FOR HER...so she does not need to live in fear IF it was more than an ONS...

And you need to do this for yourself so all the answers to all the questions do not really matter anymore. The questions stop when the answers no longer matter.

<small>[ March 10, 2005, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Daisy37 ]</small>

Hurtn,

A couple of comments:

If it matters as to whether a ONS or long term A is the worst type, go reread what Ecxpa wrote.

From your further description of your situation, I wouldn't call your W's indiscretion a ONS.

From the outside it looks to me as a fast developing EA that quickly turned physical.

To me a ONS is with a near or total stranger. The lonely salesperson on the road that meets someone in a bar/hotel etc.

It is also something that is spontaneous. There appears to be a degree of planning here, but I may be wrong.

Your wife knew OM from work. Had a very close working relationship. Spoke daily via the cell phone.

She also knew that you were concerned with the relationship yet she denied and pushed it forward. This is the fog.

ONSs have fog too but not to this level of deceit. It sounds pre-meditated whether she admits to it or not.

Just because the sex only occurred once doesn't make it a ONS either. It just means you were hot on their trail and/or one of them has enough remorse to stop after one time of sex. BTW- maybe the sex wasn't all that great.

How long has she worked with OM?

What does your wife have to say about all of this?

Mac

<small>[ March 10, 2005, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

I agree with Daisy and Mac.

1 time or prolonged...the hurt is the same, betrayal is the same...issues raised are basically the same. All the stages etc etc are the same. Sometimes i even think it's worse in the sense that ALL OF THIS DEVASTATION...WRECK MY WORLD/LIFE FOR JUST A FEW MINUTES OF SEX? If it was prolonged u could still say that at least 1 person got 'sonething' out of the tragedy...anyone identify?......

Always, Daisy, Mac, Thank you for your replies.
OK, I use ONS as a lack of believing it was more. I know there was about 2 mos EA, and only I Physical evening. She admitted to only one and I believe her due to timing and opportunity's. I also realize the fog talk, so that is why we save the big talk for the MC. It has been going well, we do talk more, I have seen alot of remorse from her in actions, ie; reading, affection,(she has 4 books on hold at library already).
As for a prolonged affair? well, I think I would have a harder time dealing with that because it seems (by reading this site) that there is to much emotion towards OM for me to deal with, In our talks the only thing she saw in him was how she was able to work so well w/ om. That is the only thing she misses about him, He understood her, She has said she didn't love him or that kind of feeling, but there obviosly had to be some deeper feelings for him because of PA. She said "true" but couldn't point it out. She does not find him attractive, but they connected mentally. It is hard to explain.

I haven't said anything regarding ONS or prolonged A, not for any reason in particular, just hasn't come up. I say I couldn't go on if it was prolonged, but I also have always said I would leave if there was an A period. And look, I am still here, so I guess I just have to deal with what I have to deal with. And yes, I would want to know if it was more, I asked and was told it wasn't. So I took it for what it was worth.
__________________________________________________
ONSs have fog too but not to this level of deceit. It sounds pre-meditated whether she admits to it or not.
__________________________________________________
I think she is still in denial about a few things, whether she will ever admit this? Don't know, Is it a deal breaker? No. It is just a part of the whole thing.
__________________________________________________
Just because the sex only occurred once doesn't make it a ONS either. It just means you were hot on their trail and/or one of them has enough remorse to stop after one time of sex. BTW- maybe the sex wasn't all that great.
__________________________________________________
I don't think of it as a ONS, just a One Time Thing. I was both hot on trail, and She said that on the way home that it was a mistake and it would never happen again. He has stopped ALL unnecsary contact. and she as well. NO EMAIL except questions about work only. She will have a new job one way or another within a month or two. She knows she cannot continue w/ this job. She doesn't even like it that much. Well, she likes the job, just not the mngmt. (bought out by international Co.) Not what she signed on for.

I know we have a few things to work on, but I am really excited how she has come around the past couple of weeks. So that is what I focus on. Not to say everyday is perfect yet, I still need to release alot of my anger and stuff that goes w/ this A crap. But in time. Today Is a GOOD day.
How long has she worked with OM?

I admit I've only read parts of this thread so am not intentionally disagreeing with anything anyone else may have said.

I think that both prolonged A's and quick ones are both devastating to a marriage. Our marriage, which is now ended, experienced both--one type from me and the other type from my X.

But I will say it IS posssible to have a one-time PA and have it involve some emotions but yet not be a long protracted A. I think what your wife said sounds plausible. Back in 1990, I was a an exhausted new mom and my husband was out late every night drinking. I met this guy I worked with and he became the person I bounced a lot of my issues off because he was easy to talk to.

Did I love him? I certainly didn't think I did. I loved my husband...and I was trying to figure out what I could do to get him to love me back. But I became more emotionally reliant on this OP than I ever imagined, and when his job was eliminated, we both panicked (him because he was unemployed and probably feeling like a failure, and me because I was losing the person who I had grown to really look forward to talking to and seeing each day.

Yes, that was an EA. It wasn't the kind where you think you are in love with the OP and that you never loved your spouse. I neither found the OP attractive nor unattractive. He was just, I thought, a caring guy who I spent a lot of time visiting with.

The problem is that you should never rely emotionally on any opposite-sex person other than your spouse! Certain things can trigger BAD, BAD things to happen in that circumstance. My XH had no idea anything was amiss until the night the PA took place.

I won't bother to tell the rest of our story, other than to say she needs to not see the OP anymore, no matter what type of A it was.

But my point of the post: If she's saying that there wasn't more than a one-time PA and that she really didn't find him attractive or that she wasn't in love with him, don't drive yourself (and her) nuts trying to figure out if she's telling the truth. I experienced it.

LL

Hurtn,
Sorry if this is a threadjack but it may be pertinent

Lordsalady,
Thanks for your post to Hurtn. It interested me bc my wife is one of those that claims that the sex only happened once.

It was a friendship that picked up steam to be a EA. In the middle of the EA was the "onetime". After the sex it was a very serious EA. Pronouncements of love, soul-mates, frantic v-mails etc.

It never made logical sense to me that the sex could have only happened once especially since the EA heated up even more afterward.

They live about an hour apart so although they couldn't "run doen the street" they weren't that far away either.

If I was hot on their trail like Hurtn I could understand but at this point I was clueless. Still am, lol. The EA lasted about 6 months after the one time. There was lots of kissing during this period.

Anyway thanks. It helps to hear that despite logic it is possible

Ohh in my case the OM was a long time friend of wife's. IMHO she did find him attractive both physically and emotionally.

Recently I've discovered that they have had a secret friendship for our entire marriage. This new info makes it even more difficult to believe the original story.

Thanks

Mac