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Hello everybody, I've been reading the content here, and I've finally decided to throw my own problems into the mix.......

I was married to my wife in the middle of 2004 - for both of us, it was our first marriage.

Lately, my wife has become really depressed, and my efforts to spend more time with her and care about her feelings seemed to be met with apathy and an unwelcome attitude.

I'm currently in school, while she works (yes, there are similar articles about this on MB)... but no, it seems a solution seems out of reach for me.

The reason I am tired and frustrated is because my wife just says that she feels she married too hastily, and wants to call it off. She talks about how depressed she is living and knowing there is so much more she could be experiencing as a single woman without having to take care of somebody.

There's no way I can do some policy of joint agreement since she just wants to be left alone. She tells me that she'd still like to be married to me, but not at this time.

What should I do? She won't go see a counselor, and she won't clue me in to anything that I've done or not done to make her happy. I'm in school about 60 hours a week, and I told her I'd drop school in a heartbeat if it meant we could stay together. She tells me that I need to finish grad school since it's the best for me (she is specific not to use "us"). I'm in a fairly prestigious grad-school program that should open a lot of doors for me when I'm done.

I'm really confused, and tired of dealing with this on my own. My family just gives me a "I told you so" attitude since they didn't really like her much anyway. And my colleagues at school think that I should drop out if it means saving a marriage.

Does any ideas or thoughts that I sould consider? Is there any way I can show my wife how being together with me is a good thing?

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Welcome to Marriage Builders!

Do you drop out of school?
Is that what you want to do?
What if you drop out of school and your wife still wants to end the marriage?
What if you stay in school and your marriage ends, will you then blame yourself?

Those are questions you need to think about, and don't feel like you need to answer them right away. Please ponder your options and determine where your gut feeling lies.

Question:
Does your W have any single friends that are out living it up.

Sometimes the outside influence of single friends may lead us to believe we're missing out on all this FUN.

Question:
Prior to jumping the broom did you both discuss the implications of marriage, the impact your schooling would have on your quality time and the many issues that come into play with being married to a full-time student.

I'm trying to get a feel for why you're schooling is such an issue? I don't think the arrangement was unfairly sprung on your wife, but if so that would explain her frustration.

Question:
Do you have any indicators that your W may be seeing someone else?

I'm not accusing your W of anything, but I had to ask because USUALLY when a S (spouse) becomes disenchanted so early in a marriage there's an ex in the picture somewhere. Once again I could be offbase, but please consider this remote possiblity.

Question:
How long did you date your W prior to the engagment and then the marriage?

Obvious questions considering the dramatic shift from supposedly blissful newlyweds to lets get divorced and remarried at a later date divorcees huh?

It's also possible that both of you were not truly prepared for the realities of married life. Your wife at the very least is acting somewhat flippant about the sanctity of marriage, which leaves me wondering why she agreed to marry you in the first place. I'm also wondering if your W gave any signals that just maybe she was a little bit "flighty" or previously she may have demonstrated a lack of commitment in other areas. Marriage is lifes biggest commitment, excuse me, 2nd only to our children, and just imagine if you had those things, yah know OFFSPRING, Whoaaaaaa!! I know this situation calls for a lot more than NOT COOL, but for the life of me as I read over your story I can't help but think...

Not Cool!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tiredhusband:
I was married to my wife in the middle of 2004 - for both of us, it was our first marriage.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Husband,
All is not lost. You're still married and this is by FAR not the worst situation I've ever come across. There are all types of methods to aid depression. I just can't help thinking there's more to this story than just you being at school alot.

As some of the more experienced MBers will attest:
You're at a great site and there's many useful tools to guide you, not to mention Dr. Harleys books and even his counseling.

I'm sorry you had to come here, but I'm glad we're here to support you.

FM

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

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Hello husband123,

Let me extend a welcome to MB also.

I am sorry that things are not going well for you and your wife(W) right now.

The first question I have is if you think there may be another man in your W's life? Any evidence? Hopefully not but it's something we have to look at when a spouse's behavior changes.

Second: can you explain what it was about your W that your parents did not like? I told you so statements aren't very helpful or comforting even though your parents may feel justified.

Being at school 60 hours a week doesn't leave a lot of time for you and your W as a married couple.It's quite possible she is feeling rejected and disillusioned with the past several months that you have been married.So,when you say "lately" your W has become depressed,when was that exactly? Has she been diagnosed with this before?

O

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

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tiredhusband,

MB is the right place.

Have you seen the page up on the main site that discusses the stages of a marriage?

From what you've described your wife is in the stage of withdrawal. Sounds like she's apathetic about the marriage.

You didn't mention the Affair topic so fo now I'll just address the depression, but as you'll see it leeds right back in that direction.

IMHO and I think the experts agree on this. There is one common theme/thread with people who have affairs. They are in some stage of depression that leeds them into the affair.

It can be the middle aged man going thru the mid life crises or,

The young husband or wife in the first few years of marriage who wonder what they're missing or,

The housewife who isn't respected by the husband (even worse if teenage kids involved lol)

You get the picture.

An affair is like a drug that temporarily relieves the depression. That phone call, lunch, secret meeting or whatever relieves the depression. It's exciting. It's secret. The affair relieves the depression temporarily by appealing to the self-esteem of the individual. If they are depressed their self-esteem is lower than usual and the affair artificially pumps it back up.

Does this mean that all people who are depressed have affairs? No, others use other forms of self medication: alcohol, drugs & sex (oops back there again)

Needless to say with this intro you need to carefully monitor the situation.

Does she show other signs of depression?

changes in weight (loss or gain)
lack of sleep
excessive sleep
more blue moods than usual
more angry outbursts
less patience

If you're wife isn't having an affair it may be that she hasn't had the oppurtunity. What I mean is that she is showing all the classic signs.

She's had a version of the "talk" that everyone on MB recognized. The old "I love you but I'm not in love with you."

You're getting the newlywed version.

"I love you but we just got married too soon."

Her lack of using "us" when talking about the future.

She won't help herself so you need to start a Plan A immediately. Go up to the main page and read everything about meeting her emotional needs.

Since you are a full time student, it's tough. You are probably not meeting her financial needs. At least to her expectation level. You probably study alot so she may be lonely.

Do you spend 15 hours with her a week of quality couple time? That is important as you'll see up on the main page.

More on oppurtunity of an affair:

You said she works. Has she ever spoken glowingly of a male co-worker or referenced a male project team mate. Even if it happened 3-6 months ago, it's important to think about it. Usually co-worker affairs start out very innocently. Working on a team together. A few lunches or drinks after concluding a deal. Over time the conversation is addicting to both parties. Once she has some feelings for him she'll go dark on you meaning she won't reference him anymore.

OK Give me some feedback here.

What kind of person is your wife? Describe her.

Mac

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husband123~

Hello, from a formerly depressed wife!

You have not mentioned if you suspect an affair (I hope there is not one!) so I will try to address the depression and the subsequent ramifications of MY depression.

Unfortunately, you cannot make a person get help for depression. My H tried for years! The best you can do is educate yourself on it, there are a million wonderful websites addressing this and help for spouses dealing with their spouse's deepression.

One of the ramifications of MY depression was it contributed to the horrible condition of my M and left it vulnerable to my H's affair. I did not have an A. Plenty of opportunties, and yes, I questioned my M, whether I wanted to be Med to him, etc. but I never crossed that line. The depression leaves the spouse undoubtedly feeling neglected, unloved, needs not being met, etc. My H was not equipped or healthy enough to deal with those feelings other than to turn outside the M to have them met.

I guess I am saying to know how you are going to deal with your feelings. Do what you can to help her, but please don't seek solutions/comfort/companionship outside your vows. If it truly becomes too much for you, leave the M. (NOT that I am telling you to do that!)

Most posts worried about her having an A (which could be possible) but I wanted to address the other side of the coin and have you realize that you are vulnerable too.

I don't know what my H could have done different for me in terms of the depression. He genuinely tried to help me. Problem is, most of my depressed years, I refused to admit I was depressed. "No, I'm fine!" I'd say. I was under the impression that that was just the way life was...a *****, then you die. Took me years to realize I had underlying childhood issues that needed to be addressed. I had felt that way most of my life.

Educate yourself. Read up on depression.
I hope things get better, husband123.
I hate to see men go through what my H went through, suffering along with me during those horrible times.

Frags

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Fraggles ]</small>

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Thanks for all your support - it's giving me a lot to think about <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess the weirdest thing about my predicament is that my wife is actually now rejecting my attempts to get close.

I had known her for years, and we even lived together for almost 10 months before getting married. We always got along really well - and we approach things with the same attitude and mindset.

OCTOBERGIRL: My parents just didn't think it was time for me to get married, and they felt that my wife was "too independent" to want to spend time with someone. She put on that strong exterior, but being with her was different; she showed her soft side and was often relying on my help and input to do things.

When we got married, we knew that my schooling would be rough. We talked about how we could still spend time together, and I made sure to budget in time to spend with her every day. She was also working on entering grad school herself, and I was planning on working near wherever she got enrolled. I'm getting a valuable, but general graduate degree, so it's not limiting me to any particular region or field.

It's obvious that her behavior just started to head downhill right after classes began. The school had set up a "help your spouse cope with school" program; but the attitudes around this just made things worse. Since there were no married women in my program, the "wives" group just became a bunch of women who were either pregnant or putting on the impression that the only correct thing is if the wife just supported a working husband while helping keep the house clean.

I helped to get her a job on campus - and she worked for a while. We got lunch, and I often skipped some school obligations to go watch movies, get dinner, etc. We even signed up for some regular evening activities. The biggest problem was that I had no luck inviting her to join me with my schoolmates. I tried to include her to the point that she started to resent my efforts... which ultimately resulted in me just letting her do what she wanted to do. Of course, some school weeks demanded more time than others, so there was a week or two where I could only spend about an hour a day or less with my wife.

Ultimately she quit her job at school since she loathed her co-workers (yet more women who were content just biding their time until their husbands could rake in the money).

School started in September, and I found out about a month ago that she's been unhappy since then.

She tells me now that she can't see herself taking care of someone else forever. She doesn't see things getting better - and doens't want to be known as "insert my name here"'s wife anymore.

As far as I know, she's not having an affair - she's just not wanting to be with me since she doesn't want any part of the life she thinks we'll have. FM: We have no kids and no plans for kids until we're financially (and mentally) established, but she thinks that kids are just around the corner since she's surrounded by other "wives" that are poppin' them out left and right. She's true, most of the married classmates I have are looking for lots of kids; and their wives seem happy to oblige.

The worst part for me is that to get away from me, she's taken a night job. Now, she's coming home when I'm going to school, and she's gone to work by the time I get home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I've tried to talk to her, but she just wants to be alone... and my attempts to enter back into her life just create more conflict. I'm sure she'd be diagnosed as depressed, but she doesn't want to have a marriage "fixed with drugs." She's not hitting the bottle and she's not being physically mean about this - it's just the lack of emotion that saddens me.

CWMAC: You're right, I'm getting the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" and "I love you but we just got married too soon" messages. She also doesn't see "us" working - even though I refer to our future as "us" and have always considered her desires in our plans.

FRAGGLES: Thanks for giving me insight about what my wife is going through - I really want to empathize with her, and it's really helpful to know what thoughts may be going through her head.

CWMAC: All I can say about my wife is that I feel she is much more talented and intelligent than I'll ever be. Don't get me wrong, I'm not stupid, I just feel stupid right now. She used to call herself a "life-long dilettante," but it's really just how quickly she learns and adapts to things. For me, I'm a bit more pragmatic and tend to think about things before I act. But, this is why we got along so well... she said I helped put things in perspective for her, and I really admired how she could make just about anything happen.

It was so much fun to be able to work on weird things like rebuilding a car engine while talking about American Literature with my wife. Really, she liked mechanics, physics, and stuff.

She really cared about others too, but I think she's tired of that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

FM: I don't want to put my career in front of my marriage. If I quit school, and we divorce anyway, I'll feel really bad. But, if I continue with school, and we divorce - I thnk I'd feel worse.

I feel like I'm in a catch-22 situation. I want to fix my marriage, but it'll probably come at the cost of my education. And, there's no way to be sure if she even wants the marriage to be fixed. What screws everything up is that I went to grad school so I could provide for my wife. I wanted to be able to afford those things, travel to those places, and open opportunities to the things that she told me she wanted.

But, now she just wants to be left alone - and I don't know how to deal with that.

<small>[ March 10, 2005, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: husband123 ]</small>

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Sorry to bump my own thread, but I'm still seeking advice. My wife just stormed out again, and I haven't done anything <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

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Husband- I know you said that you don't think your W is having an A but let me ask you this. Is there any time that your W has alone in which an A could happen? You say that you're in school alot so I'm assuming that she has alot of time to herself. Am I right? The reason I'm asking is because my every instinct is telling me that your W is involved with someone. You see, I am a WW and I know that my H gave me 1000% trust and NEVER EVER would have believed that I'd have an A. But, I did. And, when you say that your W is saying things like "I love you but I'm not in love with you" and then the big red flag statement "I want to be M to you, just not now". That's a BIG red flag to me because this is exactly what I said. You see, I never wanted to give up my H completely. If I could have had my way, I would have had my H patiently waiting for me in our M while I went out and sewed my oats with the OMen and then, when I had my fill and wanted to come back to my M, he'd take me back with no questions asked. Do you see how greedy this thinking is? I just don't think your W would be saying these specific things unless there was another M. If she was truly just lonely or missing you, I think that she's say things more like "I really love you and I want to be able to find a way for us to spend more time together" or "I feel really lonely and I'm starting to question my love for you, but I think we need to talk about how we can make this better". See, your W isn't saying things that would indicate that she'd like to fix the problem, instead she's seeking a way out and she's trying to justify it by saying the "ILYBINILWY" stuff. Does this even make sense? All I can suggest is keeping your eyes and your ears wide open. Maybe you can check her cell phone or just come home early once in awhile when she's not expecting you. Things like that. I really hope that I'm wrong here, Husband. But, I just see too many similarities to my situation and to the other WS's situations. Good luck and just know that there are ALOT of awesome people here who can help you through this if it turns out that she is involved in an A.

Just one more thing. The way she's storming out on you and becoming moody for no apparent reason is another flag. I did this as well because it was my attempt to justify my behavior with the OM. I looked for any little thing to get pi$$ed off about so I could convince myself that I was doing the right thing with OM. I also became very depressed because of the internal struggle I was dealing with. Hope this helps.

KMT

<small>[ March 11, 2005, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: kmt ]</small>

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kmt, I guess I just don't want to believe that she'd resort to an affair. I can't rule out the possibility, but there hasn't been anything odd to indicate this happening. Her cell phone has never rang where she had to run into another room and shut the door.

She's insisted that she's not seeing anyone - she just feels trapped in a marriage that she doesn't want a part of any more.

I've really tried to get into her life (not to check up on her, but just to show her that I care). Sometimes, I would skip class to grab lunch and bring it to her. She'd be asleep or watching TV, nothing weird aside from her being depressed.

I figure an affair is an inevitability since I make her so miserable, but I'd like to know what I can do to re-enter her life. If not, maybe I just need re-assurance that cutting and running isn't a bad thing.

Honestly, I'm in my own deep depression right now. I can't get motivated to do anything - and I'm really struggling to do my own obligations. I really feel like quitting it all since I am so tired. The student loans are running out - I'm struggling to find a summer internship, and school is still tough.

<small>[ March 11, 2005, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: husband123 ]</small>

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H123,

I went through a very similar situation, you may want to check out my story. It might give you some insights on what's going on with you. I will read all your posts and then comment on your story. Good luck!

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H123,

Reading your story is like reading my own. You say you don't think your W is having an A but still you are posting in an A related forum. I was in that fog, denial or however you want to call it, too. I never thought my FWW would have an A. I helped her with OM statistics homework, a friend of hers once recieved an e-mail saying stop talking to my W since I can read her e-mails. When she asked me if it was me I laughed, and said it wasn't me. It really wasn't me, if I ahd been checking her e-mails back then I would have send that thread to his prof. from school (the real OM). I had to find underwear in weird places and phone logs to finally start thinking something was wrong. Even then it took me a couple of weeks to take action. Still this doesn't mean your W is having an A. My W behaved liked yours for 3 years b4 she started having an A. She was depressed, she didn't like her work collegues, she didn't like my friends from school, she demanded more time and attention. Can you give us some more details about you? How old are you? Are you from the US or you come from another country? Does she miss her family? Is there an XBF (ex boy friend) in the picture (my FWW second A was with her XBF)? If you need help on how to collect some info on your wife's activities just ask.

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H123, I read your story, and it really does make my heart sink. I think my wife probably felt the same as your wife (although, we aren't in a foreign country). Our age is similar to yours.

Heh, I took some classes on listening and communicating - but I think I'm still bad at it too.......

Oh well, I'm just going to call my marriage quits. My wife is saying too many mean things, and she obviously has her own agenda to worry about; and that excludes anything dealing with our marriage.

Unfortunately, I've got to stay married until I finish school, since the administration here would probably try some intervention in order to make sure that this type of eyesore stays off their campus.

I'm going to finish my school, and salvage whatever dignity that I can. I hope I can still get some money for that custom-made engagement ring; my wife doesn't want it.

I don't know how you all on MB managed to tough it out. I admire your patience and your abilities.

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tiredhusband/H123

KMT is right on about the depression thing. Now that I know the signs I'd say that my W was probably depressed at least 2-3 years b4 her affair. Maybe even b4 that to lesser degrees.

So there are alot of red flags here but some of those red flags just go along with the depression.

Although your recent post makes it sound as though she is being disrespectful to you. That is yet another sign of infidelity. The cheating spouse usually needs to create an environment that helps rationalize the affair. Does that make any sense to you?

My wife would start arguments. She of course knew what buttons to push. She'd especially start them on days when she was going to have lunch with OM. One evening she said she was going to a women's meeting. I asked what I should feed the kids and she gave me some nasty comment. She was defensive thought I was criticizing her ie "Didn't you make dinner for us?"

Patience is a tough one. Everyone has different threshholds for pain.

You need to ask yourself if you really do want to save your marriage. I know it's a tough one that probably can't be answered overnight. That's why most experts would tell you to take it slowly and try not to make a snap decision.

Have you read the Harley concepts? Have you though about the ENs issue. Are you meeting all of her top 5?

Why is she depressed?

Some experts beilieve that some Ws have affairs as a way to extricate themselves from a M.

***Is your wife a conflict avoider or can she usually easily tell you how she feels?***

Have you implenmented a Plan A yet?

Most people set a timeframe in which they are willing to try and save the marriage. Six months or longer. Then an only then will they be willing to walk away. They can tell themselves, frinds, family etc that they gave it the good fight.

So where are you on all of this

Mac

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I'm so sorry you're facing such a difficult situation. It isn't clear what's going on with your wife. I'd like to throw out a couple of my thoughts.

I think that what your parents said about your wife must have some merit. That she's "too independent to want to spend time with someone.". You may see a softer more needy side, but I would guess the other aspect is there, too, if your parents would notice it.

Living together before marriage is not the same level of commitment as being married. For some, that difference triggers all sorts of feelings about being trapped or about no longer being their own person. Certainly this issue of being her own person has come up many times related to co-workers, spouses' group, and trying to include her in activities with classmates. In addition, she has delayed her own goal of going to grad school. Other wives seem content to work until their spouse can complete school and then support them. That's not your wife's dream. Maybe....just maybe...she sees "taking care of you forever" as delaying her own dreams and goals for you to complete yours. Obviously it's not "forever", but it may feel that way for someone whose quite independent. Even though she knew these things going in to the marriage, she may not have realized how she would actually feel until after it happened. She may be too embarassed to admit it or even recognize it in herself. It then becomes easier to project the problems onto something or someone outside of one's self. That way there's a "quick" fix for one's feelings, i.e., divorce. How do her parents relate to one another? Does she feel that her mother may have sacrificed her "self" to further her father's career or wellbeing?

I'm curious as to what may be different now with your lives compared to the 10 months you lived together before marriage? Were you in school then? What was she doing? Why did you decide to marry at this particular time?

Depression may be the cause or effect as others have noted. She certainly has classic symptoms. Often we don't recognize that irritablility and nastiness can also be signs of depression. I have been treated for depression for a long time. I, too, am an intelligent, independent woman. I didn't want to admit that some condition was stronger than I! I sure as heck didn't want to feel like I was "sick" and needed to be "dependent" on medication! I would have much rather thought that the problem was something outside of myself. If she has decided that the way she feels is due to being married, it will be extra hard to try and convince her to see a doctor. You might try and suggest that whether or not you stay together that she see a doctor to rule out depression. What could it hurt? Does substance abuse or depression run in her family? There are strong genetic links to these conditions.

And yes, an affair could be going on. There are quite a few signs of such behavior. Her starting to work nights allows her to not have you check up on her as easily...in terms of leaving class early to show up for an unexpected lunch with her etc.

Only you can decide how much you are willing to tolerate. And I think most of us have changed our minds about that from day to day sometimes! I know I did!

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H123, my darling Squid and I were college sweethearts, and we married young...and we shared a magnificent adventure ever since till our little hiccup last year <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .

Marrying young for US meant doing even MORE of our 'first time things' with each other and it was marvellous.

Yor W can;t use young M as an excuse to be miserable.

I agree with the advice here....start looking to see if she's in an affair.

All blessings.

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I'm curious about identifying the affair... what good does it serve? It'll only make me more angry, and I seriously doubt it would envoke my wife to suddenly feel any urge to fix this rotten marriage.

I feel lied to - not because she may be having an affair, but because she's played with my emotions for so long.

She was the one who brought on wanting to get engaged. We talked about it, and we decided that it would be a great way to show how much we loved each other. It was her idea for me to start graduate school so early. I wanted to wait more years to get work experience, but she said "the sooner the better." It was her idea to pick this top-tier school instead of one that would just let me get my goddamn degree. This is not the school I want to be in right now. And now, it is "her idea" to think our marriage is a farce and a bad idea.

I hope she's happy with whomever she's having some emotional or physical affair. I'm going to keep this stupid ring on my finger until I graduate to avoid any backlash from the administration here. No point in squandering being in graduate school. After that, I'll just make decisions for myself.

I wish I could get my wife to at least understand my point of view and read your posts - but all the suggestions here imply that there is a mutual and reciprocated love in a marriage. In my case, that's not happening.


Moderated by  Fordude 

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