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I am surprised at how superficial his reasoning is in this article.Of the few things I have read from him before,this seems out of line.
Affairs are NOT,IMO,accidental.That is the biggest line of BS in this whole mess.
To borrow a phrase from another female MB member: You don't just slip(oops)and fall on a mans's penis! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
It's a CHOICE.
O
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10Girl,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't just slip(oops)and fall on a mans's penis! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That line is simply untrue. My WW has had that very thing happen several times. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
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OT, Cymanca, [/b Type the bold before and after your link to your story and it will look like this: My Storyand posters will have a direct link to your story.
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ba109,
Many thanks.
Guess I have to work on it some more <small>[ March 08, 2005, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Cymanca ]</small>
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cymanca: <strong> ba109,
Many thanks.
Guess I have to work on it some more </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You got it. Just eliminate the spaces.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl: <strong> You don't just slip(oops)and fall on a man's penis! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
This was VERY funny!
Seriously though...I agree that physical actions like declarations of feelings, secretive behavior, passionate kissing, intimate hugging, sex with an OP etc. is always intentional and a willful choice (except if the person is so drunk or influenced by drugs that he/she don’t know what he/she is doing).
However, from personal experience, I know that people can unintentionally and unwittingly became emotionally too attached to someone and cross boundaries from friendship into something more if:
1) They are not very cautious and careful 2) If they don't have proper boundaries in place 3) If they are not aware of their own personal weaknesses and/or vulnerabilites and/or 4) If they are not aware or are ignorant of the possible dangers of opposite sex friendships...
But..even after inappropriate has developed (because of the factors above or other factors), it’s still the persons choice not to act on those feelings. Inappropriate feelings for someone outside the M are never an excuse to act on it. The will-power and self-discipline in doing so may be enormous, but it is possible.
Suzet <small>[ March 09, 2005, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>
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I agree with everyone's posts about adultery not being an 'accident'.
People don't 'acciedntly' get themselves into the situations that put them on that slippery slope to adultery. They PLACE themselves there. OK maybe some people are really naive, and there IS a lot of public ignorance about the sort of activities that SHOULD be avoided in order to protect your marriage from adultery... BUT it even if one thing leads to another, it is always still a conscience choice to ACT on the feelings bred from 'unplanned' development of closeness.
BTW, the 'Ooops - I slipped and fell on some guys penis' excuse is something I've heard before in response to women who say they (somehow?) 'found' themselves in an unplanned pregnancy. Oh and my favorite response to guys who complain that the woman they were having sex with 'got herself pregnant': "WOW! You mean it's a case of immaculate conception?!?" Or: "She went to a sperm bank?" Or: "So masturbation can not only cause blindenss but pregancy too?!?" Or: "I don't understand; who's the father? her vibrator?"
LOL
Any opinions on the rest of the article? <small>[ March 09, 2005, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>
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This statement from the part of the article about 'accidental affairs' I do somewhat agree with:
"though some people are more accident prone than others, and some situations are accident zones."
IMHO unless the person(s) involved are somehow mentally handicapped, VERY young (as in underage), or extremely naive/dumb/fools... adultery is never really an 'accident'.
IMHO MOST of the affairs that people claim 'just happened' are because the person is 'more accident prone than others' as in they are serial adulterers, addicts, idiots who never learn from their own mistakes. AND/OR they fail to acknowledge that the situations they put themselves into breed adultery ('some situations are accident zone').
Part of the problem is that most people who work outside the home spend their entire work day in an adultery breeding ground (an adultery 'accident zone'). And the sort of situations that nurture adultery are not viewed as the problem. People who do recognize the dangers in the typical workplace and do try to isolate themselves from those situations are usually viewed as kooks or the assumption is made that their spouse must be 'jealous' and 'controlling'.
I didn't accept invitations from male coworkers to go out to lunch. I only spent time with coworkers in a group setting. The reaction was usually that *I* had made some insulting assumption about the male coworker's morals or intentions, that I was a being a prude, that I must be letting a jealous husband control me, that I must think I'm 'all that' to assume he'd be interested in me that way...
My WH has had absolutely zero problem finding sympathy from family, friends, coworkers that I didn't 'allow' him to go on business trips, go out to lunch with female coworkers, listen to female coworkers complain about their problems, partake in 'harmless' flirting... Of course he didn't tell them it was a condition he AGREED to in order to move back in with me after his previous affair. So of course he had no trouble finding women willing to go out to lunch with him, listen to his complaints about his 'mean' wife, cry on his shoulder about their problems, giggle coyly at his jokes and flirtations...
Let's face it most workplaces these days more closely resemble a junior high classroom than a professional environment. Practical jokes, dirty jokes, flirting, socializing are the 'norm'. And the complaining about spouses is similar to the way teens complain to each other about their 'restrictive' and 'demanding' parents IMHO. And just like in junior high the few mature ones who don't participate in these shenanigans, who are actually there to learn/work, are considered 'uncool'.
This will probably sound extreme but IMHO it's not only important for the adulterers to stop working together as part of no contact, but a change in workplace might also be needed if the workplace environment itself, general behavior of the rest of the coworkers, is conducive to adultery. Even if the one person your spouse was involved with leaves that workplace, if the flirting, inappropriate joking, sort of socializing that is commonplace there presents a risk, then your WS will need to find a safer work environment. <small>[ March 09, 2005, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>
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meremortal: Thanks for sharing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I hadn't read that article before. And as always I pulled at least a few tid bits out that I found new and interesting. (At this point and after reading sooooooo much, its tough to really find anything actually "eye opening"). </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's face it most workplaces these days more closely resemble a junior high classroom than a professional environment. Practical jokes, dirty jokes, flirting, socializing are the 'norm'. And the complaining about spouses is similar to the way teens complain to each other about their 'restrictive' and 'demanding' parents IMHO. And just like in junior high the few mature ones who don't participate in these shenanigans, who are actually there to learn/work, are considered 'uncool'.
This will probably sound extreme but IMHO it's not only important for the adulterers to stop working together as part of no contact, but a change in workplace might also be needed if the workplace environment itself, general behavior of the rest of the coworkers, is conducive to adultery. Even if the one person your spouse was involved with leaves that workplace, if the flirting, inappropriate joking, sort of socializing that is commonplace there presents a risk, then your WS will need to find a safer work environment. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As to your comments here, I think you are dead on in this assessment. My W's A took place almost totally At Work with the man that ran the entire department. He was very clever to create the atmosphere that was conducive to being able to construct his own personal "harem". (not only was he screwing my W, but also her friend and co worker....but neither of them knew of the other).
In fact, by being in charge of this environment....it was a Perfect "testing ground" to find out which of the women under his control were open to even being approached in the first place. If they were, He took it to the next level and if they were Not he backed off and let it just be fun and joking at the office. But back to your premise: Yes, by this OM (as the Boss).....not only condoning, but promoting sexual jokes, sexual references, sexual stories and out right "flirting" (right out in the open).....it did definitely Grease the Wheels in his ultimate plan. By keeping this type of "sexual energy" out in the open......it made it become "normal" and actually Expected on a daily basis. As a result. Even the people who were NOT that comfortable went along with it, as to NOT be ostracized by the Others. Any way, This was one of the reasons (the atmoshphere there) that even after the OM left the company my W worked at, she ended up leaving a couple of months later herself. The stigma, her own personal "triggers" as well as just the overall atmosphere were the things that convinced her that she could No Longer effectively work there. (Not and be Happy as well).
(Cause even before her A....this place was a hostile working environment.) She admits that Now! Too much sexual overtones to be considerd "Professional". (Unfortunately, No One wanted to rock the boat). And look at the consequences.
She claims she knows the warning signs and won't be pulled in like that again. Lets hope she right!
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