FWW's, have you ever apologized or ask for forgiveness? and why does it "seem" easy just to put it behind you. And expect the BS to live with your A without discussing it openly? I would like honest and frank answers if you so tell.
BS'S, Is forgiveness something that needs to be asked for?
Have you offered forgiveness without their asking?

I do not expect an apology or request for forgiveness, I would like one, but I offer It to her with no expectations, other than her honest effort to help rebuild a once great marriage.

<small>[ March 12, 2005, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: hurtnheart ]</small>

hurt, yes I asked for forgiveness and have apologized all over the place. I have not yet received forgiveness though. Yes, I do believe forgiveness should be asked for but not all will do it. YOu need to forgive for your own sake and once the A is over, NC in place and you are in R you will know when you are ready. KWIM?

KWIM ?????
I know forgiveness is something I do for my reasons. just curious how many ask for it. It seems that most WW/FWW's just assume they deserve it, and I wanted to know why that is.

KWIM (know what I mean)

I think most FWS on this site will be the ones who ask for forgiveness. You may want to reword to include asking BS's if their S asked for forgiveness or was it just assumed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurtnheart:
<strong> WW/FWW's, have you ever apologized or ask for forgiveness? and why is it so easy just to put it behind you. And expect the BS to live with your A? I would like honest and frank answers if you so tell.
BS'S, Is forgiveness something that needs to be asked for?
Have you offered forgiveness without their asking? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear Hurt~

I apologized and asked forgiveness immediately after confessing.

It has NOT been easy to put it behind me whatsoever.

Nope, never expected my BH to live with my A, let alone be the daddy to my OC. I expected, (and knew I deserved), him to leave me and kick me to the curb.

On D-Day, after asking his forgiveness, I also told him I loved him and I wanted to remain his W if he would have me, and that I'd be willing to give the baby up for adoption, seek CS from x-om...whatever he'd want me to do. I told him too, that I'd leave if that's what he wanted, and he could get a D, no problem, and tell the world what I did to him if he saw fit, so everyone would understand why he was D'g me.

I made it clear what I wanted, and what my choices were, BUT made it crystal clear I realized he had choices to make and that he needed to feel free to choose whatever he wanted, NO matter what I wanted. I was afraid he would choose me and the M because he felt badly for me, thus protecting me, and not himself. He's always looking out for others before himself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WW/FWW's, have you ever apologized or ask for forgiveness? and why is it so easy just to put it behind you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who said it was easy to just put it behind? I asked for forgiveness. I repented, I cried, I begged for forgiveness, even AFTER I was told I was forgiven. It was NOT easy for me to just put it behind. It was NOT easy for me to forgive myself.
But if a FWS ASKS for forgiveness with full repentance and remorse, why would they not be granted the forgiveness?
Nobody DESERVES forgiveness....that is exactly why there is a NEED to forgive.
I mean, I can not take back what I have done, and IMO, there is nothing I can really do to completely "make up for" the offense. I can only go forward from there, beginning TODAY to live right. But if the sins of my past are to be forever held over my head, then what would be the point in my trying to now live right?

NOW

N.O.W., I did not mean to sound judgemental or incinuate(sp) that it was easy, just a poor choice of words, I am just trying trying to figure out some things that I suppose I am not getting from my W. I am hoping that I can get a jist of how or why she may be feeling and why she wants me to just move on. Maybe because she does not want to relive her mistake or maybe because deep down she doesn't regret it. I don't know, I know it is something that we need to work out. Even some of the books say to not expect any remorse or apology because they have rationalized an excuse for the A. I am just trying to see if the pattern exists for this or if it is just my W.
I think FF said it best when she said the ones on this site are the ones that do feel remorse and guilt enough to apoligize. My W is not on this site and I don't think she ever will, I have told her about it, but She thinks it is just for BS and feels she will just get beat up. I told her it is not like that, but, I think the MC is all she can deal with now.
__________________________________________________
But if a FWS ASKS for forgiveness with full repentance and remorse, why would they not be granted the forgiveness?
__________________________________________________
I agree with this, I am willing to forgive her, and I would just like her to be more forthcoming with the events of the A. and don't know if I can fully forgive her without her being more open. I think that comes with time.(hopefully)
I do not hold this over her head, I don't believe we could move forward if we did this, but if I have questions, is this holding it over her head. We are not quite 3 months out of dday, nothing I say or do is to throw anything in her face, I refuse to do that, but she thinks any question is just rehashing the A. So, what do I do? I respect your opinion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">nothing I say or do is to throw anything in her face, I refuse to do that, but she thinks any question is just rehashing the A. So, what do I do? I respect your opinion. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also felt that way, in the beginning. I think very early on, a WS realizes on some level, without necessarily being "aware" of it, that there really is no way to pay for the sin of adultery. So anytime it's brought up, it "feels" as though we are being made to pay. It took me a while to see that my husband asking questions about the A was NOT intended as some form of punishment for it.
I also, in the beginning, did not even see how my apologizing for it would ever be enough. So, I wondered, what good is it REALLY for me to apologize? Doesn't my WH see that won't change anything? I knew he wanted an apology, and for me to show remorse, but I did not believe him when he said that would be enough to obtain his forgiveness. Because I did not believe it was enough. That just sounded too good to be true.


It is very hard for most FWS's to talk about the affair. That is due to the guilt that we feel. If I didn't feel in the least bit guilty or remorseful, I would have had no problem talking about it. If I did not care how it might hurt my husband to hear details of the affair, I would have volunteered more information that he needed. I think it's a sign of remorse not to be willing to talk about it. On the other hand, I had to stop thinking ahout myself and think about my husband. I had to trust that he really could forgive me even after hearing the horrible details. I honestly didn't think he would be able to.
One of the things he did was make sure I knew that his questions were just that....questions. He was not sitting there waiting to hear the information so he could use them as bullets against me. Ok, so he says this....I'm still not sure, but I give it a try. (Small steps at first. He didn't try to get all the information at once.} I gave him the chance to prove that he wouldn't blow up at me or tell me I was even more disgusting than he first thought. And he was true to his word. It was still hard to divulge the details, but I felt safer each time I did, and he didn't close up or lash out at me in response.
I don't know....maybe ask your wife to trust you....just give you a chance to prove you aren't trying to re-hash anything. Tell her you need to know what happened so that you can learn all the reasons it happened, so the two of you will be equipped to prevent it in the future.

I hope this helps....to the FWS it does seem that questions about the affair are designed to make us feel worse than we already do. You just have to try to find a way to convince her that isn't so.

I have mixed feelings about trying to get FWS to post on the forum....some is good, and some is destructive. If she is going to MC, that is probably better than reading here.

Good luck to you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

NOW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Doesn't my WH see that won't change anything? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now*, when did I become the WH? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

OMG!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Am I that far gone? Nah...just an idiot.
Sorry about that!
RH is not a WH he is the BH!
Must be the blonde hair.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />


NOW

I still love ya. See ya after bit.

Sorry to threadjack, hurtn.

WW/FWW's, have you ever apologized or ask for forgiveness?

Yes, many, many times.

and why is it so easy just to put it behind you.

It has been 12 years since the A, and I still feel guilt and pain about it. I don't go a day without wishing it never happened. I wouldn't describe that as "easy".

And expect the BS to live with your A?

Because she said she could. If she had said, "I can't live with you," then we would have divorced.


To answer your more "general" questions, many FWSs after the A ended thinks that he/she had a legitimate reason for the A, and therefore believes that no apology is needed. If the FWS is a decent and good person, he/she will eventually understand that the A was unnecessary, destructive and painful.

WW/FWW's, have you ever apologized or ask for forgiveness? and why is it so easy just to put it behind you. And expect the BS to live with your A?

Interesting question....I just NOW realized that I never asked for forgiveness!!!! Apologize, oh yes, yes, yes but ask for forgiveness, no. It was my H who actually brought up and asked for forgiveness first..for his part in the emptyness of our marriage. Talk about shock on my part but it definitely flung the doors to recovery wide open.

I suppose I never actually asked because I never expected or more accurately, felt that I had a right to forgiveness. Asking for something from someone you have wronged places you in the position of thinking about getting something for yourself..the way I looked at it was that the last person I needed to think about was me, I had done nothing but that already!

I guess that I've never asked since because I KNOW I am forgiven without a doubt. It was his genuine gift to me, totally unexpected. He gave it in response to my sorrow and horror at hurting him so he never put me in the position of begging for forgiveness. He freely GAVE it, which made it all the more awesome.

Please don't think I am saying the recovery process was easy, it was NOT. It was painful, painstaking and worth every amount of blood, sweat and tears we put in to it. We are post recovery (several years post DD) that is to say that our marriage is healthy, happy and fulfilling. It is not about A coversations, considerations or complications.

I am curious why you would assume that an A is "so easy" for a (F)WS to put behind them? They are the ones who actually lived it after all and also the ones who have to live with extremely negative fallout specifically because of their OWN poor choice! How can shooting yourself in the foot (and by proxy, your very own loved ones) possibly be easy to get over?

As far as expecting the BS to live with the A, it is up to the BS just exactly how they "live with the A". If the BS puts their head in the sand, does not addresss preA marital issues and simply expects the WS to make it up to them because they "should" , there will be marital problems.

On the other hand if the BS is motivated to save the marriage and decides to examine things more closely they will usually see that changes are in order. Some of these will have to come from the BS. A BS who sits back and waits for their just due of apologies and recompence usually seems to have a more difficult recovery if they have one at all.

Sorry, probably more than you asked for but there are more than a few pitfalls in the recovery process and the whole WS "expects" forgiveness idea or the BS "has" to live with the A can be sone of them. KB

notonlywords, I feel for you. I have been in that place. I needed to know too. I didn't know why at the time, but I needed to be told the TRUTH for a change. The lies hurt more than the sex. I was willing to try again, but I needed honesty. If the spouse can answer your questions honestly, it goes a long way toward healing. Maybe if it is put that way she will tell you.
M

WOW WOW WOW!
First off, NOW and RH. You guys can thread jack anytime, especially if it shows us the love that you show is possible and that it is worth sticking all this stuff out. Thank you.

JM and KB, I meant no disrespect in my not so thought out words of being easy to put behind. I simply chose the wrong words which I will be correcting when I am done.

__________________________________________________
As far as expecting the BS to live with the A, it is up to the BS just exactly how they "live with the A". If the BS puts their head in the sand, does not addresss preA marital issues and simply expects the WS to make it up to them because they "should" , there will be marital problems.
__________________________________________________

as you probably can tell, I am not the greatest at putting into words what I want to come across.
In my case, which is all I can speak for, It seems that as long as we do not talk of A, things move along swimmingly. but, not so well when I have questions. I am addressing my part of the decline in our marriage, I take full responsibility for me. I do NOT expect her to make it up to me, nor do I want or expect her to grovel. I would just like the respect, that she did not show for me or our family that particular evening, to allow me to decide what I want to know and what I do not want to know. This is what I meant by living with the A. It is a part of our world now, So, why not learn from it rather than hide from it. We cannot change the past, just work on the future. I am willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES, FOR HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES, to fix our marriage. I LOVE HER WITH ALL I KNOW HOW, but, I still need to know some things so I can move on. Once I have the knowledge, it will NEVER be brought up again. This I promise.

Please forgive any wording that is taken as insulting or misleading, I never mean to offend people that I am asking for help to understand this whole infidelity stuff. I never believed I would have to prepare for this.

Dear hurt,
You are doing the right thing. I bet if she read what you said in your last post she would at least try. I HAD to know too. It's the only way you can heal. I hope you get your message through. You did a fine job writing your feelings here. Will she read a letter from you?
M

MWOLF, I have given her 1 note and she did not take it well, like people seem to do with my writing, she misunderstood my meaning. We have talked a little about it since, but I am not a writer, so, Through MC, we will work out our bugs. She gives us homework that we seem to do pretty well.
I have to write my feelings in this site, I made the decision to be open about all facets of my life so that I may get honest replies to help me deal, it does not do anygood to hide anything. no matter how embarrasing or strange. I want to fix my marriage, What ever it takes. I said the same to MC when she was surprised at how open I am, she says I am a great patient.
What is your story?

*Preface* I am a Christian and the following reflects those beliefs wholly...

Well, as the BS I can tell you that *I* asked FWH for forgiveness... it started w. a book I was reading "Power of the Praying Wife".

I realized that I needed to forgive my H if I expect God to forgive me, also... sin is sin, as far as the Lord is concerned. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God..."

I also realized that I had done things to strip him of manhood and dignity in this M. Was it intentional? NO! Did it justify the A? Heck NO! But there were things I did, even unconsciously, that contribted to the breakdown of the M that God intended us to have.

It touched him, it opened some doors... the intention was to really make it known to him that he was not the only "sinner" in this M... makes it easy for him to continue to believe he is that awful, evil person, which is counter-productive no matter how you slice it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Now I am working on forgiving the OW... and trying to pray for her... OMG so hard! I hate her, but somewhere deep down I know that it is not my place to punish her for her sins against me (ooohhh but I want to!!!) I am realizing that bad things happen when I try to step in and do the Lord's job (like judging and punishing). FWIW I do not plan on telling *her* I forgive her, but for my own mental health it is necessary to do so. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

TnTr, I hear and agree with you. I think I will ask my wife for forgiveness Sat. morn when we will have some time together. This is a step in fixing what I need to fix in me, as for OM, well, I really have no feelings one way or the other, He has his own demans to deal with. He was just a person in the wrong place at the right time. I just have now respect for his choice as a man, right or wrong, he means nothing to me. I feel more sorry for his w and 3 young kids. I have the same lack of respect for my w right now too, it is not strictly for OM, she is 100% responsible for her actions, I just have a vested interest in her.

well seems we have alot of agreeing going on... I just agreed w/ you on the "this sucks" thread! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OW means nothing to me either... and I have tried to explain to H... he asks why I do not hate him like I hate her? (trust me, it was close there for awhile!) It is becasue I have loved him incredibly, deeply... OW is nothing to me and should have been just a passing aquaintence in my life. FWH is at fault for bringing her into my world at all... still, he is my H and I do love him (big idiot!!)

I have to forgive if I expect to be forgiven, even *her*... doesn't matter that I secretly hope she gets hit by a bus... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />