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Frozen or Patriot..
Before I post again I have a question.
Are either of you Christians?
Noodle
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are either of you Christians?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are both Christians.
If you are getting ready to hit me with the 2X4 labeled "You shouldn't have been living together before marriage", we have already dealt with that.
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No Frozen, no 2x4 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Just a ponderance. I know the "shouldn"t have" stick get's thumped a lot. I was thinking more of the "why not" poking device.
Why shouldn't you have been living together..and how has this decision affected your present relationship.
See, in some instances..the sin/consequence relationship is quite unsubtle..and I have consistently seen the premarital sex/living together outcome to be among the MOST unsubtle of them all.
I was wondering what you think..when you consider that his relationship with you was just as unhealthy and morally wrong as his relationship with her..that his sex with you was just as sinfull..as immoral..and spiritually damaging.
His relationship with OW was not different..it was more of same.
Ouch, I know..and this was not intended to be a blow, not at all..yet it surely is offensive and hurtfull..because it is true and so..so ugly.
When you ask..how could you [Patriot]..yet refuse to answer for your own actions.
So Frozen..how could you?
How could you betray your own best interest? How could you choose to invite this sickness into your life? How could you expose your children to this and call it right? How could you be suprised when it blew up in your face?
When you answer that question..you also have your answer for how could he.
The same rationalization..the same denial..the same refusal to force his actions to face his beliefs.
I would guess as well..that some of your anger..some of your feelings of being trapped..lie here as well.
Trapped by your own sin, and mad as hell about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I can relate.
Did this lack of protective boundaries rob you both? Yes it probably did.
Did the sinfullness of your choice to live this way contribute to the problems you have today? Yes they probably do.
Did your choice to live in this way bind you to a man you might better have discarded? Very possibly.
So, now you are married, and you want to stay that way.
You say that you want counsel and advice for resolution.
This is my advice.
Accept that there was so much wrong with your premarital relationship..that it is difficult to find anything that was right.
That it was built on bad decisions, and frankly sin.
That this can not be rewritten.
Then..proactively choose to make your relationship with God be the central force in your relationship in a way that it never before has been.
Ask for forgiveness if you haven't already.
Then stay the course. Apply the principles..that's a no brainer..but the relatonship you most need to protect is your relationship with God.
If God is in favor of your marriage, and you are in obediance to him..both in action and thought..you can not help but succeed.
How much of your day is dedicated to seeking God and his will? Aligning your perspective with his?
If I may chance an estimate..I'd guess not much..your actions do not reflect it.
Rage, chaos, and obsession are not the fruit of the spirit. They are the fruit of the flesh.
You walked in flesh before..so did Patriot..with disasterous results. It makes logical sense..that what will most impact your recovery..is change. I think that this will make the difference that you ask for.
Frozen, I know this is an ideal. I know that you will fail at times. My posts are sometimes to full of venom and rage and spite that it is obvious that I am a hypocrite. It doesn't make me wrong. It makes me weak.
Noodle
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by frozen1229: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are either of you Christians?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are both Christians.
If you are getting ready to hit me with the 2X4 labeled "You shouldn't have been living together before marriage", we have already dealt with that. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you believe that each of you knew, as you took vows before God. that you were, in fact, taking a step to sanctify your relationship before God?
I think that is where Noodle is headed.
Pep
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why did I marry him after what he did? I now believe I did it simply because I didn't want to let go - of him, of what I thought he was and what I thought we had. That's it. That was a kind of fog - a fantasy. Now we are both left here to deal with the reality.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I actually think your words here are 100% right on.
There is a statistical problem with living together before marriage ---> a higher divorce rate once the couple marry. Did you know that?
Why is that?
Precisely because of what you wrote on an earlier post.
Once a couple is living together, a blindness to what might be wrong with the relationship sets in. Things are overlooked that should not be overlooked.
The time together becomes to seem like an 'investment' of sorts. And the investee does not seem to want to back out of a losing proposition because the thinking goes ---> "If I back out now, I lose all the time I invested."
And the willingness to back out when things are not right diminishes as more 'time is invested' in the pre-marital living-together relationship.
A single woman living on her own tolerates less relationship crap than a single woman living with the man she 'hopes' to marry someday.
Now you HAVE a union sanctified before God. Now you HAVE vowed 'for better and for worse' .... and this is no longer about your feelings Froz. It is now about your sacred vow to honor and cherish Patriot. But you are having trouble doing that .... and yet, Patriot has broken no marriage vows Froz. You cannot divorce Patriot on grounds of adultery. He did not commit adultery.
You accepted his pre-marital cheating when you took vows before God. You cleaned the slate. Patriot's cheating cannot be used against him after marriage, because you took the vows in full knowledge of his former cheating.
He stands as an innocent man (non-adulteror) within the marriage.
Pep <small>[ March 14, 2005, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was wondering what you think..when you consider that his relationship with you was just as unhealthy and morally wrong as his relationship with her..that his sex with you was just as sinfull..as immoral..and spiritually damaging.
His relationship with OW was not different..it was more of same.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right. I am no better than she is.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How could you betray your own best interest? How could you choose to invite this sickness into your life? How could you expose your children to this and call it right? How could you be suprised when it blew up in your face?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right again. How COULD I? I alone am responsible for any "perceived pain" I am experiencing now.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Accept that there was so much wrong with your premarital relationship..that it is difficult to find anything that was right.
That it was built on bad decisions, and frankly sin.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Accepted. There was nothing beautiful about it. My thinking so was no different than an OW thinking her relationship with a married man is beautiful - fog thinking.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ask for forgiveness if you haven't already.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Done.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How much of your day is dedicated to seeking God and his will? Aligning your perspective with his?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will work on this.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now you HAVE a union sanctified before God. Now you HAVE vowed 'for better and for worse' .... and this is no longer about your feelings Froz. It is now about your sacred vow to honor and cherish Patriot. But you are having trouble doing that .... and yet, Patriot has broken no marriage vows Froz. You cannot divorce Patriot on grounds of adultery. He did not commit adultery.
You accepted his pre-marital cheating when you took vows before God. You cleaned the slate. Patriot's cheating cannot be used against him after marriage, because you took the vows in full knowledge of his former cheating.
He stands as an innocent man (non-adulteror) within the marriage.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right again. I have no right to be here. I'm not a BS, Patriot is not a WS, or even a FWS. He didn't "owe" me anything. I appreciate your time these past three months and the patience you've shown in brining these things to my attention. I take them seriously.
I will continue to work on the issues you brought to my attention. I will honor my vows and I will honor my husband and marriage. No one promised me joy, after all, and I am in the situation I'm in of my own doings and no one else's.
The vows I took were as follows:
To have and to hold To give and to receive To care for and to console With openness and honesty From this day forward For better for worse For richer for poorer In sickness and in health When together or when apart To love, to cherish And to never betray Until we are parted by death
I will honor these committments until we are parted by death. <small>[ March 14, 2005, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>
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I love this part...
"from this day forward"
remind yourself .... forward forward forward
never backwards
Peace Froz
Pep
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Frozen - Just wanted to lend support (and not much else in terms of advice) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Affairs do suck and the betrayal, whether before or after the marriage vows, is still betrayal. Yeah, maybe you should not have married Patriot so soon after finding out, but if you were like me at all you were in pretty deep denial. Maybe denial isn't exactly the correct term, but it just didn't seem real to you when you first found out. I "knew" for five months before my H finally admitted, but it still ripped me to shreds when he admitted it to my face. And I knew from all the evidence I had gathered! Go figure!
I think it is irrelevant that he committed this betrayal before you were married because it still feels the same. I do think that deep down inside you saw something else in Patriot that you felt was worth having or you would not have been able to go through with the wedding. There are days I HATE my H and I want to pack the kids and leave, but I know that anything worth having is worth fighting for - or at least I tell myself that on bad days <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Hang in there and as the great Pep said - keep moving forward. Somedays it may feel like your feet are stuck in molasses, but that passes.
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Froz, I have not posted to you but have been following posts. How are you doing? I haven't seen you on here lately.
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