|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102 |
Little background here... My wife has had a friendship that turned EA for the past couple of years... she told me at thanksgiving time she is wanting out... because she never really loved me and that God had told her to not marry me when she did... and she did anyway... We have three kids... B6,B4,G9mo And now we are both going to counseling... When she told her counselor that she wanted to know about her options... divorce staying or separation... The lady told her about the book Should I Stay Or Go? : How Controlled Separation (CS) Can Save Your Marriage by Lee Raffel But she is not really wanting to save the marriage for me... but for the kids... So now here we are and she is asking me to help this controlled separation along... The basic concept of CS is that you become partners realizing that you both need time to sort things out and come back together in a set amount of time to let your decision be known... The book also says that the person who wants out has the right to soul search... and that the other party must help them through this time... It says things like I should be the one to leave the house so that the kids are not pulled from their mother... and that I should foot the bills for the extra living arrangements... because my wife does not work... and things like that... So she is all over this stuff... because she can have her freedom... not have to leave the house or the kids... and take the time she needs to make a decision... to stay or go... The book makes me out to be not loving... and not willing to try if I do not at least agree to the CS theory... So I am torn... because this is not anything like Plan B or the tough love theory of James Dobson... If she has thought that she was not important to me in life... and that I can get by without her... then what type of message am I sending if I do not go along with this fine plan that her and her christian counselor have in mind... Here are my stories... http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=036175#000001http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=037273
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060 |
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by devastatedhubby: <strong>The basic concept of CS is that you become partners realizing that you both need time to sort things out and come back together in a set amount of time to let your decision be known... The book also says that the person who wants out has the right to soul search... and that the other party must help them through this time... It says things like I should be the one to leave the house so that the kids are not pulled from their mother... and that I should foot the bills for the extra living arrangements... because my wife does not work... and things like that...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DON'T YOU BUY IN TO THIS CRAP ONE IOTA!!!!!!!!!!!! CRAP!!! Think about it! Does this make any sense at all? Are you going to this same counselor?? I recommend you ask some really tough questions. We'll help you write them. But if your wife is buying in to this crap, this counselor is doing WAY more harm than good. Ire commend you get on the phone with Steve or Jennifer pronto to get armed with how to combat this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> WAT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906 |
that's one of the biggest loads of crappola I've heard...
bleeeeccchhhhhhhhhhhh
ARK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102 |
I recommend you ask some really tough questions.
We'll help you write them.
more detail please:-)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 832 |
Ahhhhhhhh yes..."controlled separation"
After I discovered what was, at the very least, an EA WW and I went to MC. The psychologist for my agency apparently is quite highly regarded. After a few sessions, and our relationship not responding fast enough for my liking the MC suggested the controlled separation idea. Gave me that stupid book to read too. I thought it might shock her out of her ambiguity she felt regarding our marriage. Did it ever. It was all the room my WW needed.
She is entrenched in her A with a married man.
We are now legally separated.
I now see my children only 50% of the time.
I had to re-mortgage my house to pay out half the equity to her.
Divorce seems imminent.
I am brokenhearted.
Read other books on affairs such us SAA and After the Affair . Now is not the time to push your spouse away, it is the time to pull them closer. Read WAT's reply again....and again....and again. I wish someone had said that to me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906 |
dear counselor..
explain to me how your controlled seperation does not feed in to childrens fears that when mommy or daddy become "unexplainably unhappy" that the solution is to get rid of daddy...
even temporarily...
and explain to me counselor how my children will not come to fear that if they the children feel they 'displease' mom..then she will not just get rid of them for a while...
Also dear counselor explain to me how MY footing the bill to someone who suddenly needs to find themselves...though they had no problem finding themself emotionally involved with someone else..should hold no real accountability and responsibility for footing this bill of 'soul searching...how that helps them find any reality...when you say I should protect them from the reality of their choices...
and should we not, dear counselor, bill the OP for all the monies needed for mom to sit in the house and 'find herself...?"
oh lord where would one end...asking questions...
ARK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060 |
First tough question:
If something is broken, how is ignoring it going to make it better?
How will ANY relationship get better by actions that are in a direction to ending it?
I'm sure others will chime in........
WAT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102 |
Well we go to different counselors in the same firm... but my wife has not signed off that our counselors can talk...
So her counselor only knows that this OM is a friend that I am not comfortable with her having... and that I am trying to control who she can have as friends...
The reason controlled separation was brought up by her counselor was that my wife asked about her options... stay together, separation, divorce...
and the counselor told her about that book... because if she was to choose separation... it is probably the best way to make it work and not drag out forever because it is based on a contract that you both work out... with a counselor...
I do not feel that she will really recommend this type of thing after she finds out the real truth about her friendship being an EA!
see.. a week ago I told my wife I was going public to the people that need to know about her EA... I told her that I was willing to hold off a few weeks if she agreed to talk to our counselors together and get this OM out on the table... so our counselors can counsel on the real facts... that way they can tell her that this stuff needs to be out in the open and needs to be dealt with and that I am not talking to people just to make her look bad...
I am most sure that her counselor will change her views and what she recommends after this little joint session... actually I know so... my counselor has already talked to the higher ups in the firm... and an outside consultant group they use... to make sure he is taking the right stance and that things will change after this joint session because her counselor will have the real truth and input from higher ups on the matter...
I am just trying to figure out how to convey my feeling as to why I won't take the CS into consideration... and why I will not just do it because I love her and want to help her...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102 |
I must have been typin my reply when you guys were replying... I have to run to lunch and will chat in a while... thanks for the thoughts...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060 |
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by devastatedhubby:
<strong>I am just trying to figure out how to convey my feeling as to why I won't take the CS into consideration... and why I will not just do it because I love her and want to help her... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You: "Our problems are most solvable by working together to see what we need to do to meet each other's needs. We cannot do this separated. Further, we cannot do this with any distractions from our marriage. Any energy either of us puts into a relationship with a third person is a huge distraction - not only is it preventing us from working on our marriage, it's worsening it."
The only "controlled" separation you can use is Plan B - when the time comes. You control it all.
WAT
<small>[ March 11, 2005, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023 |
I think that controlled separation idea is garbage. Dobson's 'Love Must Be Tough' for you. Maybe you can get you WS and that so called Christian Counselor to read SAA. Here is a link to an old thread of a FWS and former BS that may be of interest...it is also a fun read: For the poor lost WS who need to find themselves Don't move out and fund her A. Get tough. Make sure you are up on the laws in your state to protect you and the kids. (sometimes difficult when you have a SAHM wife.) If anyone should leave it should be her, and not with the kids. I know you have little ones. She needs to realize just what she stands to lose. Be calm, firm, steadfast, and loving. She is being unreasonable and enabled by this bunk philosophy and counselor.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102 |
She says she is not wanting to separate to decide to be with me or the OM (who she says she does not love that way... just really close friends... right)... but she says she needs to get away from the anger and resentment she has towards me for the way I have treated her the first 9 years of our marriage... and how I have dealt with this OM issue even though it is wrong... to decide what she really thinks about living the rest of her life with me... and giving up the person she has become as a result of this other person...
She is trying to decide if she should stay together for the kids... and live a life she doesn't want... or leave and live life by herself with the kids... knowing that she would not remarry...
She has also put this "poor you" tag on to the end of a few of our conversations... that she feels bad for me as a person... that I have to have to live with her (if we stayed together) knowing that she cannot give me the things I need from a wife... and that I deserve better from a wife...
bla bla bla
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060 |
She must have the hardback version of the WS script.
Glad you can see through this.
Stay the course. DO NOT willingly agree to any separation. You cannot stop her from leaving - but under no circumstances do you leave your home.
WAT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I think if she needs to go off to "soul search" "decide what she wants," <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> then you should help her pack her bags, give her $30 pocket money and wish her well on her mission.
However, you and the children should not be the ones to suffer while she is "soul searching" with the OM. You should never ever leave your home to accommodate an affair, otherwise you are contributing your own demise and the demise of your family.
I am sure you don't have to be told that "controlled separation" is nothing more than pablum designed to accommodate bad behavior and will actually HARM your marriage. You can't work on a marriage when you aren't together.
Nor do you have ANY HOPE of recovery as long as Romeo Studmuffin is in the picture. Your best bet is to SAY NO TO NUTS and try a tried and proven program that can effectively end affairs and save your marriage if applied properly.
P.S. what your wife really wants is the freedom to carry on her affair with you out of the house, but paying the bills. The OM would be able to move in and take your place. That is EXACTLY what she wants and that is exactly what will happen if you fall for this CRAP.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102 |
I hear you gals... :-)
but lets just think about this for a sec... lets say she has come to terms that she cannot be with this OM... and she is now deciding if she can live with me and the things we have gone through... and I do really believe that she has feelings of making the wrong decision to get married by the way... that doesn't mean I am saying that she should leave... but she does need help...
She now has this hope, because of this book, of time away to think and reflect... and weigh her decisions... without her anger and resentment popping up by seeing my beautiful face...
How do I tell her that I do not want to giver her space to clear her mind so that she can make a decision without doing it based off the anger she has right now...
she really thinks that she is struggling to decide if she should stay or go is because of our first years and her wrong decision to marry me... not because of the OM...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,042
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,042 |
You tell her you love her and are committed to making this M work. Seperation is not the way to save a M and therefore, you are not leaving. If she chooses to leave there is nothing you can do to stop her but you will not be the one to leave your family. On the day you married her you promised to love her in good times and in bad. These are the bad times and you still love her and will do what it takes to get back to the good times.
BUT don't believe the part about not leaving to be with the OM. I heard the exact same things from my FWH. I later found out he followed the WS script and moved out to continue his A without having to see me everyday and feel guilty.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023 |
It is really such a shame she didn't think of all of this before she allowed herself to get pregnant and give birth to 2 children...the youngest of which is 9 months old. It sounds like she is typical of the WS's who rewrite history. She sounds foggy and selfish.
Maybe Harley's, 'Fall in Love, Stay in Love' would help open her eyes. Somehow it would be good if someone could get the message to here that she can have the marriage she always dreamed of, a new marriage, with the father of her children. Marriage Builder's has plans for people just like your wife...and you.
Would she speak with SH?
Also, Shirley Glass's 'Not Just Friends', is a good book,
I agree with the other's:separation is more than likely to spend more time with OM without your interferance.
An addiction is a powerful thing to fight.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 102 |
kloe72... we are on the same page... I am just bouncing things off you guys...
to make sure I am going at this right...
Trix... I have told her that there are places that tell of a bright future and the path to get there... she wants nothing to do with those things...
She isn't interested in fixing the marriage yet... she says she is not there yet...
That is why she wants time away... to decide if she even wants to try to salvage the marriage... if and when she chooses to stay for the kids... then she will seek help she says... but she says she is not ready to fix anything... other than the way she feels about her life... with HER counselor... not OUR counselor...
She says we are on our own separate paths... and we will see if they come together... but they are not as of this moment...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by devastatedhubby: How do I tell her that I do not want to giver her space to clear her mind so that she can make a decision without doing it based off the anger she has right now...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She can make a "decision" just fine living in your home. She doesn't need to leave to do that. That is nonsense. If she needs "space" offer to clean out a corner in the garage for her. But if she really wants to leave, tell her she a free woman who can make that choice. Help her pack her bags and give her $30 to live off and wish her well. The only reason she wants to separate is so she can carry on her affair in your home on your dime. All the rest of this is hogwash that I have heard on here every day for years. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">she really thinks that she is struggling to decide if she should stay or go is because of our first years and her wrong decision to marry me... not because of the OM...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yeah, yeah, we hear this every week. Translation: I am rewriting history in order to justify my affair. It is fog talk that should not be taken seriously. She is terribly confused because of the affair and will stay that way until the affair is ended.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060 |
dh - she's been abducted by aliens and had her brains scrambled.
Humor her.
If she insists on separating to either find her [censored] with both hands or to look for comets - and she may believe this - she's really under the influence of the aliens > the dopamine of the affair coursing through her brain.
Do not believe ANYTHING else.
Period.
She's intoxicated and actually may believe what she's saying.
Have you ever been drunk? You KNEW for sure that you could drive safely, right? You KNEW it!!! No one was gonna tell you otherwise.
She's exactly the same way - just that she won't sober up overnight.
DO NOT fall into the trap of trying to rationally process what she's saying. She's intoxicated, been abducted.
In a way, she's right - she DOES need to find herself. Her real self. Her sober self. Her non-dopamine self. This won't come any faster - and will likely be slower - being separated.
WAT
<small>[ March 11, 2005, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>
|
|
|
|
0 members (),
473
guests, and
79
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
