Hi, FIM. I am a few months behind you.... Dork is starting IC with me on Saturday. Yup, Whoop Dee frickin' DO Or rather Doo-doo.

HIs latest Dorkism is since I am not sleeping with DP, you have no right to tell me not to see her as we are friends! And get over your betrayal thing becasue my former friends can invite anyone over for a massge and introduce the DP to their kids. THere is nothing wrong with that.

See? Dorkisms. THat's why I say I am a few months behind you.

Sounds like you are doing great. Hang in there.

Hey babe, how are things going?

Been thinking about you, and wondering if the WD has been able to talk his way back into his scheming life again.

When my, at the time, WH seemed like he was content to keep things as they were, I tried to convince him to leave and D us...I would say things like...
"Think of how free your life would be without the bills and responsibilities of ALL of us?"
"We've not been happy for a long time, and we can ease each other's pain by separating."
"We deserve to be happy and I think it's still out there."

Basically I reverse babbled him...I said to him all the things I thought he was already thinking...

At the time my H started to agree with me and then realized what was happening and started arguing AGAINST these ideas... It was an interesting time.

I was very loving, and not sarcastic at all, and was sincere about letting him loose and about the things I was saying...we really needed to let each other loose...but the operative word here was US...WS think of the letting loose only on their end...as if hte BS would be attached for life. When the BS starts talking of separating...the game changes.

Hey there!!

Just wondering how things are going there now that WH is home? How's the job situation? And how is the move?

Hello again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have been unable to post anything more than the occasional response to a thread for what seems like forever! I posted two or three updates just to have them disappear into cyber space. I've been reading though.... I just hate what infidelity does to people. Reading new posters stories just breaks my heart.

Anyway, an update...

Dork is STILL living here in the house but should be moving out to stay with a friend by the day after tomorrow. I hope so! I'm still so irritated every time I am around him. I dislike feeling the way I do and the fact that I end up snapping at him like a rabid dog.

He did get a job. That surprised me. He did though and should be bringing in a paycheck soon.

He is spending a lot of time with the kids and takes the girls swimming almost every night. He's been working with them on their homework in the evenings and basically getting back involved with their lives.

What irritates me though is he is the "fun" dad. He signed up the kids for the YMCA again (which is great....they love it). Of course, when he did it he didn't have a job and no way to pay the monthly membership. That's the whole reason I cancelled the membership. We couldn't afford it for a while. BUT, he wanted to do it for the kids and it DID make them happy. He just doesn't think of where the money is going to come from. (probably his mom!)

Then, he signed up our 10 year old for dance classes. I had told her she couldn't have the classes until summer because of her grades. She has way too many missing assignments at school. As it is, I had talked to her about taking her out of the after school choir program. Dork and I had talked about it!! Then, yesterday, DD tells me that she needs to get a top for a dance outfit because she has class today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> He signed her up anyway. NOW, I'm the bad guy because she is NOT taking that class until the school year is over (6 weeks!).

I'm glad he's back in their lives, I'm glad he got a job and seems to want to try being a better father again. But I worry because he still lives in this fantasy. He wants to be the fun guy and make the kids happy. Great. But what about the reality of paying for their activities. Getting them to the classes. (her dance class is at 4). Making sure the mundane things like grades are taken care of.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just looking for things to complain about, but it scares me that he's going to be around for a month or two again and decide that this isn't as fun as he's trying to make it. When the days get redundant, where is he going to run to this time?

As for Dork and me, the divorce will now be final May 6th and I'm counting down! He's still pulling the "I want to work on it" crap. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> There are times I feel guilty for not wanting to. Those nano seconds go by pretty quick though. A few years down the road I'd be RIGHT BACK HERE.

He has gone so far as to set up an appointment with Steve. I've asked him not to and again, where is he getting the money for it?

But, that's what Dork wants to do, so that's what he will do. I've told him I'm not counseling with him. I am moving on. I am done.

Maybe it will help him though. Still, how's he paying for it?

Oh well. The house will be closing on May 31st and the kids and I will be moving into either an apartment or duplex depending on which one is open when we move. I really like the management and property we'll be moving to, so it makes it easier.

All in all things are going really well. Once Dork moves out, it'll get MUCH better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

This is my first post on Marriage Builders. This is what I would like advice on: My 23 year old, son has been dating a 20 year old, woman at the same college. She is 3 years younger than he is. They have been dating for about 2 years. Last summer they broke up...she needed space. During this time she dated no one else and enjoyed just being "free". In the fall they got back together. They just split up again...although she says she loves him..she needs space.....and NOW they are getting back together again. She fits the description of a "free loader" and my son fits the description of a "buyer." So the relationship works easily much of the time. My son believes that he really loves her, but is worried that this may be an ungoing problem. He said, what if they stay together and get married and two years down the road, she decides that she needs space. He doesn't know if this is PART OF HER PERSONALITY OR A FUNCTION OF HER AGE. Any ideas? My son knows that I have posted this question and looks forward to any insights any of you may have.

Vikings
It would be a better idea to copy and paste this to a new thread topic all it's own, instead of adding this unrelated topic to Faithinme's thread.

Thank you so much...I didn't mean to be rude...I have never posted on this message board and didn't quite get it. I did just what you suggested! Thank You!

Never fear about being the fun parent or not. Believe it or not, kids like rules. It is like a parachute below them, knowing htat you care. Kids like boundaries and knowing that you are watching hte gate.

WD is continuing his selfish behavior...he is not being "fun" dad to help his kids out...but to make himself feel better, to allieve his guilt, and to have only 'pleasant' moments with his kids...thereby staving off the day when they confront him with his bad behavior. If he can buy them off maybe they will feel too guilty to tell him he is a bad parent...

But kids are EXTREMELY sensitive, and know the hidden motives behind actions... Do not be surprised if the girls are taking advantage of dad and making him 'pay' for his absence...

TIme to be clear with them...sit them down and set the boundary with them that any promise dad makes they need to clear it with you first, that any promise of an event or activity that costs money has been taken out fot he household account, and because daddy doesn't know how much money we have, doesn't know what we can afford and what we can't. Be clear with them that decisions you make are not to punish them or dad, but to look out for the best interests of them and the family (moneywise, schoolwise, etc.) Let them know that over time the family will be able to do more when daddy is working more, but that you will still need to here about decisions to determine if it fits in the family's schedule, with time and grades, etc...

But please don't try to outfun dad, and don't try to be the big meanie to counteract him...the kids respect a parent with boundaries because they know they make rules out of love. Dad just ends up looking selfish and foolish again...

StillHereMakingIt,

Thank you for the advice. I know he's trying to fill a void he can't fill and that they know it. It just irritates me....much like his mere presence. If it wasn't that it would be one of many other things!

I'm about 3 weeks from the divorce now and about six from the house closing. I am so ready to start something totally new.

I just read something here though that brought me to absolute sobbing. The context was different but, oh goodness, did it hit me unexpectantly hard. It was by Bellvue on another thread...



I guess because Dork is moving out tomorrow (finally, HOPEFULLY), I have been thinking about what the best type of visitation schedule would be for the kids. The girls have loved having him here and like I said before he has been very active with them. We don't go out as a family right now. But they want us to.

I do not want him. I honestly do not believe there is a chance for a faithful, intimate or fullfilling marriage with him. He is just not ever going to be the kind of man I would be proud to call "my man". He's not the type of man I want my daughters to see as an example of what to look for as a husband or the type of man I want my son to become.

I want and deserve more. The draw bridge has been raised, the fortress secured. That warrior has been barred from my castle. (Still my favorite, Gimble <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

But when I think of things like what Bellvue wrote, DAMN! it just breaks my heart. I never wanted this for my children. I swore they would always be secure and never endure this. It is totally a case of projecting from my own childhood, but it is something I swore would never happen.

In the end I do know it is the best. They deserve more than the half-a$$ed family we would be with a serial cheater at the head of our table.

It is at times like this that I would love nothing more than to subject Dork to all the pain his decisions over the last year have and will continue to cause everyone. Actually, if I could just take all the pain, disappointment, fear, insecurity and everything else from these kids and put it right into the middle of his chest.... I'd be happy.

And damn him for making me second guess myself! I figure that will in some small way always be with me.

I hope he has it 100 fold though as he sees the family that he could have had die a painful death in front of his eyes.

Hi, FIM.

Quote:
===============================
In the end I do know it is the best. They deserve more than the half-a$$ed family we would be with a serial cheater at the head of our table.
===============================

And there lies the truth. Tough as hell, but the way it is.

Quote:
===============================
And damn him for making me second guess myself!
===============================

I know that hurts. At least now, you have gained enough experience to know the difference between an act and what real change in a person looks like. It's like truth, FIM. Real change born from repentance, bears good fruit.

God bless you and your children. I know that good things are waiting just a little ways down the road for you.

Gimble

My dear FIM,

U sound like U have a lot of unresolved anger within you. Understandably so. Yet to let that anger fester as such is not healthy for yourself and everyone around you (yep, including Dork).

So what t/d? Well, you need to find a way to release that anger. Keep it there but at a more healthy level. How? Find a type of closure. For me it was going to the beach and yelling at the waves. It took a bit of the anger out of me and released some of the pain I had grown accustomed to carrying in my inner soul. I remember looking at the waves and yelling, then going back to my car and just sobbing. I felt part of my life was fleeing me yet the relief brought comfort. Can't really explain it but know it does work.

It probably saved the H's life. Even though he was a WS at the time, it sure didn't help the WS in his wayard cause. Instead my closure helped me to be a good BS. Save my strength and help me have the patience to pick my battles. I learned to get a strong stand and basically mow down all that WS/OP babble. Yea, I was even able to instill some 'said' fear by the OW itself. Even if she really wasn't scared I was already in a safer spot but they stayed in where they made their mark. See it was a fantasy at best and stupid choice at the worst since the permanent scars of the A will never go away. Just get minimized over the years.

I believe that the WS should always carry the brunt of the recovery work or he/she should not enjoy family time.

L

Well, hello.

I was going to start a new thread...but even though I have updated my profile I still get the "page can not be found" error and so can not start a new one.

An update for those interested...

Divorce is still on track.

House sale is still on track.

I am slowly getting over my anger. It pops up at the oddest times though. It is very weird to me that it's still there at all.

I want this divorce. I really have looked at my marriage and realized I was mourning and fighting for an illusion. I didn't have either the husband or marriage I thought I did and honestly, that was the single hardest realization to come to.

I'm moving past that though.

I realized a long time ago that I DO deserve faithfulness. I deserve to make myself a better wife and friend and person for ME. I deserve to move on.

I hate what it does to the kids though. I never would have chosen this path, but I'm going to make the best of it for all of us. The anger that I do harbor tends to come from the NEED to move on.

Dork and I were filling out our final paperwork yesterday and he kept making comments about how we didn't need to do this and our marriage could be better than ever. (Didn't I say that for 8 months? oh well.)

It made me think of something Steve Harley told us in counseling. Dork told Steve one day that he was having a hard time dealing with me because I'd get so difficult sometimes. He didn't like it that I was sometimes sad or angry. It was 'uncomfortable' for him.

Steve broke it down and told him 'Well, basically, your having an affair has put a knife in your wifes back. Are you going to be happy and cheerful if you're sitting in a corner with a knife in YOUR back? If FIM EVER smiles, EVER jokes, EVER is carefree, I'd say you're pretty lucky."

Dork somewhat understood but kept up the affair.

So last night when he kept trying to talk about us working on things, I asked if he remembered that analogy. He said yes.

I said okay... You put the knife in my back. You watched me sit in pain and kept going. THEN, you'd leave for a while and then come back and turn it a couple of times, tell me you were sorry, turn it some more and leave. A little while later, you'd come back to see how I was, turn it, jab it a bit and then leave me there to suffer again.

Every time you came back to our home and then left to live with OW, every time you made a promise to work on things, every time you lied and continued your A, every time you kissed her, had sex with her, talked to her, thought of her, every time you gave her the simple time and respect you could have given me, you turned it a little more.

I bled out. Steve told you, straight out, she's just going to bleed to death one of these days.

I did. And although you may be sorry and you want to change it, you can't bring it back now. At some point, there is too much. Too much pain. Too many memories. Too much betrayal. Too much LACK of character, morality and integrity."

It felt good to just calmly explain that too him.

10 affairs over 11 year is just TOO much. It's not ever going to change for US. I hope it does for him and for someone else. It can't for us anymore.

Ramble ramble.

The reason I wanted to start a new thread was two poems I read that I wanted to share..... they are both by Peter McWilliams from a book called "How to Survive the Loss of a Love" that was given to me by a friend.

____________________________________________________________
[color:"blue"]
I shall miss loving you.

I shall miss the
Comfort
of your embrace.

I shall miss the
Lonliness
of waiting for your
calls that never came.

I shall miss the Joy
of our comings,
and Pain
of your goings.

and,
after a time,
I shall miss

missing
loving
you.
[/color]
____________________________________________________________
and...
____________________________________________________________
[color:"blue"]
The need you
grew
still remains.

But less and less
you seem the way
to fill that need.

I am.
[/color]
Have a wonderful weekend. I keep everyone here in my prayers each day.

FIM

Hi FIM. Thanks for the update. I love the way you explained to Dork how you bled out, at his hand... I didn't realize there were 11 affairs! I only wish Dork could have woken up long ago. Then again, he might never wake up. But you, you and the children, will move above and beyond.

Enjoy your weekend.

~ Snow

PS It helped when I went to my browser's cookies control and cleaned out all of my cookies. Then logged back in and have had no problems since....

I had not realized it was 11 either.

I hadn't put the term affair to the girls I knew he had kissed when on his previous deployments. I hadn't put the term affair to the inappropriate relationships he had throughout our marriage.

I also found out recently about more.

So....

1. during his first deployment there was one relationship w/ sex
2. sexual relationship with fellow soldier during second deployment
3. one night stand during second deploymnet
4. kissed a girl in Spain on second deployment
5. made out with a girl on second deployment
6. kissed another girl on second deployment
7. kissed a girl at his work after he came back from deployment
8. copy number 7 with a different girl
9. EA (strong, strong, strong suspicion of PA too) with a girl he worked with
10. copy number 9 again at different job with different girl
11. this last A

Those are what I know. I assume if I know about those, there are more. Most of this I didn't know about until the last three months.

Live and learn, I guess. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, thank you for thinking of us. We are going to be just fine...better than fine really.

I'm off to a baseball game, so have a wonderful weekend!!

FIM

FIM-

I have been wondering about you. Glad you checked in with us. You have such a way with words, it is amazing. I know exactly what you mean about one twist of the knife after another. After awhile you lose your love/respect for the person.

But I promise you it does get better. After more than 2 years of this, my WH is no longer important in my life. He doesn't make me mad, sad, or anything. I talk to him nicely, and without any feelings at all. I even hope that he and OW live happily ever after.

Of course, having young children makes it harder, but you will have a happy life again. Just hang in there, and be the rock for your family.

Faith - I live in HK and have seen first hand the temptations put in the way of these guys. When the US Navy are in town, the girls just flock to the bars. I'm sure it's the same all around the world. It probably all started out as harmless fun and just became a habit. Your children have a wonderful mother who has learned to stand up for herself and everything she believes in. One day they will be so proud of you - in fact they most likely already are. Your WH is the loser. You know it so never doubt it. TT

It's time for you to stop feeling guilty about what the divorce will do to the kids right now. Your husband's example of behavior could cause them far more harm at this point, and I am obviously no advocate of divorce. You did your job, and should feel good that you put so much effort in. Glad to hear your house sold so quickly. I'm sure it will be difficult adjusting to apartment life for awhile.

I've really appreciated the support you have given me during my ordeal with my wife. We'll have to see what she does. You're a nice compliment to Gimble. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The offer stands for coffee if you make it into Seattle. Hey! I'll be on King 5 news investagative report on Monday at 5:00. My 30 seconds of fame <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Hope you stay in touch on the posts Paula.

You sound much stronger. I've been thinking of you, but have just about given up hope of posting anymore. The new site doesn't work well with my computer. I really don't want to download anything.

He really did it. I didn't realize there were so many affairs. It is a defect within him-has nothing to do with you. I always believe someone can change, but I guess it is too much. You would need to put up with him until the baby is grown. No way to do that with a serial cheater unless he gets help. I think you've had it. He did leave you in a corner bleeding too long. Oh-those poor kids. What he did to all of you. Keep your chin up-you really tried. Hugs.

Hi Faith. I seem to be having less trouble logging on.

How are you? Keep going-you will feel what is right in your heart. Hugs-Jersey.