Lemmonman,

My advice to you, is to stay the hell away from the pregnancy/OC boards.

[edited by Archuletan. So hurtful to other members' uncontrollable situations as to be harrassment.]

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Archuletan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From sour male:
That is a reason why it irks me to no end when people talk all of this Bull$hyt about boundaries here, yet it is all lip service. Boundaries are broken time and time again daily on this web site, yet all that happens is a "movement" of the boundaries to keep the "marriage" alive. I guess that is why I sometimes have so little tolerance for the false recoveries on here and the betrayed souls who accept them TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen to that my good Dr.!!!

And I personally have MORE of a problems with all of otherwise good souls on here that are telling and Advising these people to move those boundaries, yet again and again.

"oh he/she is trying"
"their only human" , ect,...

Then the suggestion given is to Remind the offending party of what your " boundary " is.
OR else!

OR ELSE WHAT????

What else is exactly going to be different then the last 10 - 20 times the same (or similar) line was crossed and basically "nothing" was done (except perhaps some b*tiching and moaning).... or maybe a night out on the couch.

The WS has already proven they will break "any" boundary that they are Allowed to.

They have also proven they can handle any amount of "emotional" outbursts by the BS, in order for things to get back the way They want them.

Like you, I don't want to hear any more advice to Keep moving the line back, whenever it gets crossed.

Yes, they need a small amount of slack...........however, the limits posters put up with on here are just extreme in my view.

And then they are "encouraged" to keep letting it happen.
Very, very Frustrating indeed.
And if you Dare to go against this thinking......you are branded as Unreasonable.
Whatever!

(Cause LM is right, simply moving the boundary is NO DETERRENT at All!)

If there are NO consequences......then there is usually no change.

People generally only change behaviors they find pleasurable.......once it is more painful to continue doing it, as compared to the alternative.

Hey, were'd that come from??
Guess this should have been on Pep's Peeves. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
LM, STOP posting things I Agree With (your going to get me in Trouble).

LM,

let me confess that I have always believed that you may have felt better if you had been able to do both plan A and B. Even before I read your whole story. Many times I think that we see the A thru the eyes of the WS OR the BS and we forget that there are interactions between them that are decisive and determinant of their actions and reactions. For example, you can plan A very nicely, but if you don't have a "safe" attitude, it is doubtful that the WS will be willing to repent immediately. Or they will pretend to out of fear and these are the false recoveries.
I sense that there are many reactions that are not sincerely understood between WS and BS during the first stages of the process. I have too little experience yet to figure it out.

On the subject of pregnancy/OC boards I have been reading there recently, although,like Noodle, it is not a thing I like. But since WH is living with OW although denying it to all, and OW is herself a child born out of wedlock as is her sister, it's the kind of situation she may force to "trap" WH into marrying her. Very common "solution" to things in some people's minds...
Anyway, I wanted to ask you if you had read Lost71's posts there. They let me be a little hopeful....

LM - I don't even know why I'm responding to this as I usually only read, but today I want to write I guess <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> One thing I really like about your posts is how you never seem to be afraid to express your honest feelings - regardless of what others might think. Courage and conviction - both admirable traits IMO.

To answer your question, it comes down to this for me. I would not have stayed in my marriage were it not for my children. That doesn't mean I don't love my FWH, but I have very little respect for him as a man right now. He cheated because he found someone he was attracted to and he looked for reasons to be angry with me to alleviate his guilt. He has totally rewritten the last 4 years of our marriage and has yet to "own" his choice and admit that what he did was simply selfish in its purest form. What is there to respect about that? I think how he continues to behave will determine how I feel about him in the future. People change and I try to be open minded.

The thing is, I have two children that deserve to be in a two parent home. My FWH does seem to be remorseful about what he did, even if he cannot even admit to himself why he did it. There will always be a piece of my heart that is just gone because of his choice and nothing he can do will ever bring it back. If I could choose to be married to someone who has not cruelly and selfishly stolen that piece of me then I would in a heartbeat. Is there such a person? Would they love my children?

In reality, does marriage really mean anything to anyone anymore? It has not yet been a year for me and I struggle in so many different ways, but one thing I have learned is that cheating is a choice and unmet emotional needs is just a bunch of garbage IMO - who doesn't have unmet needs??? I get kind of tired of people telling the BS they should change this or that or do something differently to bring back their WS. If there is a next time for me then it will be the last. I won't do this again even for my children and I have taken steps to ensure that I will never be in the position of feeling like I have to try and forgive this horrible thing that has been done to me by the person who claimed to love me best.

I think you did the right thing in letting your WW go - you deserve to be treated better. You DID give her another chance. We all deserve to be treated better by our spouses, but sometimes the choices are not always clear about how we should handle this situation. When there are children involved it makes the BS decision to stay or leave a lot more critical. Should the children suffer from the sins of one parent?

Now, I do not view this as a supreme sacrifice on my part. As I said, I do love my FWH and I want the marriage to work for us too. But it is the kids that made me even WANT to try, because for me love isn't enough to undo the damage of infidelity. But talk to me in another year and we will see.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong> Lemmonman,

My advice to you, is to stay the hell away from the pregnancy/OC boards.

I avoid them like the plague..the entire notion of an OC revolts me physically. I am actually grossed out to the point of being unreasonable.

Speechless.

Now that is saying something. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I get angry with all parties involved.

Noodle <--- The Wrong Stuff to deal with that issue. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You get angry at ALL parties involved? What is THAT supposed to mean? ARE you angry at the BS who is trying to save her/his marriage? Are you angry at the innocent child involved? the innocent children of the WS? Gosh, this repulses me that you said such things! There is NO DIFFERENCE in a BS on the PG board as any other BS on the GQ11 boards, except now we have to deal with something that MOST people find they could NEVER deal with! AN OC! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I guess it does take a very strong person to deal with it!

To answer LM and Dani's question of MY current sitch!!! NO i have NOT reconciled with my WS! He is NOT living in my HOME! Paternity has NOT been established! That is all i know! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi LM,

I always read your posts and have been following this thread.

That is kinda' how I feel about AOs and DJs being "okay" to a point. IF it is the truth and just because someone doesn't want to hear it, does that make it a DJ?!

Just wanted to jump on and say I agree with ya' LM..And the OC thing, well that's something I am GALD that I don't have to deal with, 'cause it is NOT the child's choice or fault!!

And had to say Hi SpouseGuess, I always look for your posts. Was wandering how you are.

Ditto 200% what SG said too, that is me and my sitch to a "T". Only kids are 14 and 7, oldest not his, but raised by him since she was 5...

jls

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Momto3Boys:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong> Lemmonman,

My advice to you, is to stay the hell away from the pregnancy/OC boards.

I avoid them like the plague..the entire notion of an OC revolts me physically. I am actually grossed out to the point of being unreasonable.

Speechless.

Now that is saying something. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I get angry with all parties involved.

Noodle <--- The Wrong Stuff to deal with that issue. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You get angry at ALL parties involved? What is THAT supposed to mean?

Pretty much precisely that Mt3B. I get angry with them. I'm not saying it's intelligent, I'm not saying it's reasonable..I'm saying I feel that way, and so I don't tread.

ARE you angry at the BS who is trying to save her/his marriage?

Yes, usually I am. Particularly when it descends into crawling like a dog and accepting living conditions that wouldn't be considered humane by people living in slavery.

Are you angry at the innocent child involved?

No, not angry with the child, but disgusted by the existence of it.

the innocent children of the WS?

Definitely not..they are not involved..not in the decision making loop. I think that they often go unprotected though. My children are introduced to their [censored] half sibling over my dead body. That kid gets no part of their inheritance 'cause Dad or Mom couldn't keep their pants up [if I had my way..although the most likely outcome is that at the very least a settlement will be required].

Gosh, this repulses me that you said such things!

I'm not suprised.

There is NO DIFFERENCE in a BS on the PG board as any other BS on the GQ11 boards, except now we have to deal with something that MOST people find they could NEVER deal with!

Agree

AN OC! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I guess it does take a very strong person to deal with it!

I tend to see them as weak and dysfunctional. There are a great many who see *me* that way..both because I chose to attempt reconciliation with my FWH..and the other end of the spectrum..those who see I am not strong enough to integrate an OW and her spawn into my life.

To answer LM and Dani's question of MY current sitch!!! NO i have NOT reconciled with my WS! He is NOT living in my HOME! Paternity has NOT been established! That is all i know! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do hope that your situation is resolved to your satisfaction. Noodle </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Sorry LM - slight threadjack! Jlseagull - I do not post here very often as I have little positive insight in many of these situations. I mostly follow the stories of those that seem to ask the same questions that I want to ask - riding others coattails I guess. My threads typically die pretty quickly anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

No one really responded regarding my LOVE BANK notion.

However, after reading SpouseGuess' post I really want to throw in some more viewpoints here.

My experience and viewpoint is really different than hers in many respects. I think it is important to consider that each situation may be different and to try not to make global assumptions about others.

My situation fits exactly with MB Principals. I most assuredly stopped meeting my H's emotional needs. Up to the point of his distancing from me, he treated me like a queen and I did not show my appreciation to him. There are many other ways that I stopped being his teammate.

There is no excuse for his resorting to having an A to deal with his rejection and loneliness. However, I do feel that he became addicted to the OW as an antidepressant and for the ego boost that she offered.

I used the MB SYSTEM and coaching from Steve Harley to RECOVER our marriage. I believe that our marriage is better than ever because we have a beautiful history together and we are building a future with plans about our retirement,etc.

Our children are basically grown. I did not work on RECOVERY for them. I did it for ourselves. I needed him and he needs me. We are life partners. He got caught up in an addiction. He is back to being himself again.

Our children will now have the benefit of learning about true forgiveness....

<small>[ March 14, 2005, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

mimi,

I did notice your post, and found that it was one of the only ones that referenced MB material. And I'd ditto your experience---there was no doubt that I had marital behaviors that helped lead the marriage to the point at which my wife found an affair as an alternative. And I too had excellent help from Steve Harley to get my side of the fence cleaned up, and that we have used this system to recover our marriage.

Now, my children were not grown, and this was a large motivating factor in me working through the affair. My wife became pregnant from her affair, and I'm now raising that child along with our other two (he's six now). As opposed to disgust, revoltion or any other of those emotions---I feel a deep love for this boy, and give thanks to God for allowing my to be blessed in such a way.

There's a lot of raw emotion in this thread---as is common with such a difficult issue. There's a ton of nonsense too---which is all too common. Working with the Harleys or someone qualified in dealing with infidelity can really help cut through the crap, and speed you towards recovery.

noodle,

While your opinion is somewhat extreme according to some standards, I respect your RIGHT to post it.

I am not sure how I would feel if my life had been altered by the presence of an OC.

I do know that I am very put-off by the term "half brother/sister".

When I remarried, my new H and I discussed our having a child. He had children from his first M and my two were from my first marriage. The thought of my children having a sibling that would be termed "half", and that would result in them being termed a "half", didn't set well with me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It wasn't that I found it offensive to me...I just found it an offensive term...much like something isn't "whole"...it's a "half".

Now, the term "step brother/sister" didn't bother me at all. Go figure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

My children never referred to my second H as their "stepfather". Since their biological father was deceased we didn't see a need to classify him as a "step" when he was 100 percent their Father. Make sense? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

It seemed to work for us.

Again, I do respect your right to post YOUR opinion.

committed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by top rope:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From sour male:
That is a reason why it irks me to no end when people talk all of this Bull$hyt about boundaries here, yet it is all lip service. Boundaries are broken time and time again daily on this web site, yet all that happens is a "movement" of the boundaries to keep the "marriage" alive. I guess that is why I sometimes have so little tolerance for the false recoveries on here and the betrayed souls who accept them TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen to that my good Dr.!!!

And I personally have MORE of a problems with all of otherwise good souls on here that are telling and Advising these people to move those boundaries, yet again and again.

Then the suggestion given is to Remind the offending party of what your " boundary " is.
OR else!

OR ELSE WHAT????

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes you do see this alot...the reason being that people do not understand what boundaries are.

People think that saying "I don`t like XYZ...you have to stop doing that...blah...blah..blah..." is setting boundaries.

OR...

They think that seeking revenge...or evening the score...is setting boundaries.

Setting boundaries is NEITHER of those things and many people don`t get that.

Having a boundary means that you walk away/remove yourself from the situation when your lines are crossed.

It is very frustrating for me when I read stories of fence setting/cake eating WS`s and the BS`s refuses to even enterain the idea of either walking out or changing the locks. IMHO if the immediate reaction of every BS were to do just that...you`d see the WS fog lift pretty darn quick.

You cannot control what your spouse does but you can control your reaction to it.

I know you understand this Top Rope...but not everyone does.

And Lemmonman,

Time is on your side here....time will change your perspective on this. It would be easier for you to eventually regain your admiration for your W if you were still married...but that is not in the cards.

There will other situations in your life where you will have opportunity to forgive others though...and I think if you REALLY think about it I am sure there are other instances, other people from your past who have greatly disappointed you but have been able to regain their position in your good graces.

If you have experienced past disappointments with people you admire (perhaps a parent/friend/sibling)... but you were eventually able to overlook it... this might help you to understand how BS`s can forgive/regain admiration for the WS.

To those of you that feel it necessary to attempt to degrade and condemn and entire forum on the Marriage Builders web site, I STRONGLY suggest you go back and read the TOS and MB policy you signed when you joined MB.

This is a S U P P O R T site!!!

SUPPORT!!!

If you find yourself "disgusted" and dismayed" regarding the circumstances of some members (or an entire forum <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) and unable to provide support, please don't post at all .

Don't we have enough hurt here without intentionally inflicting more on other members???

<small>[ March 14, 2005, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

LM,
You wrote;
"I want to TRULY know from these BS who this happens to, do they reaaly 100% forgive this and find admiration, etc in their WS again."

Then you wrote;
"I forgave my wife's betrayal of me and our marriage."

Did you really forgive her?
Or is is something you wanted to do and simply said the words and tried to act like it?

Now that it didn't work out, are you "taking it back"?