All MBers,

It seems to me that the more I read stories/threads here at MB the more it seems that the WS, whether male or female, seems to be the conflict avoider in the family.

They also appear to be the ones who have trouble communicating their needs and wants, EN's in Harley speak.

Thoughts? Specific examples of your situation would be helpful.

Mac

cwmac_2@yahoo.com

Hi, cwmac.

My observation has been that there are usually conflict avoiders on both sides of the equation, BS and WS alike.

As a result of avoiding conflict, there are rarely any marital boundaries in play.

Gimble

Mac - what an observation -you may be on to something here. Yes my WH is a conflict avoider and is avoiding reading HN/HN as well -is avoiding any talks to help us move ahead and make our M better and stronger. This will be very interesting to follow.

c mac:

Although I have No statistics,
My personal opinion is an Emphatic YES!

In our family we have 2 CA's........my W AND Myself.

So you can Only imagine the amount of Baggage that we had <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (but were ignoring)........

(Fortunately, there were no Huge issues such as abuse, alcohol, money problems, whatever)

It was mostly if anything, BOTH neglecting each other, poring all of our time and energy into "everything else" [i.e. kids, house, jobs, ect]....and simply Growing apart.
Living parallel, yet separate lives.

Really SAD when you think of how this all worked out.....when it could have been solved soooooo easily.

The only difference is that she Chose to "act out" .

While I on the Other hand, did Not.

So there is the dilemma ...why does one chose one path.........while another person another in basically the same situation makes a better choice.

PS - Her A is Forcing Us Both to Find ways to Handle this Problem in better and in different ways.
Tough to change though when its a life long habit and basically ingrained into your "personality".

Gimble,Realtor & TR

Thanks for the fast response.

TR said something that I should have said in my first post.

He said that he and his wife are CAs. I believe that a vast majority of people have some degree of the CA gene.

Believe me there were plenty of times when my wife asked me, "What's wrong?" And I answered with the CA's famous line, "nothing."

But of the two of us she is by far the more severe case.

She came from one of those WASP families that hid all of the dirty laundry from the children. She never saw her parents argue ergo they never fought. Huh? Neither parent shows much outward emotion. Her father is especially poor at expressing anything.

My guess is that over the years she compared me to him.

My family on the other hand tended to be more of a combo. The WASP in us didn't allow the expression of happy feelings, but we sure saw the negative ones thanks to that tongue relaxant known as alcohol. I was very poor at showing my happiness but pretty good at showing my displeasure.

Just wanted to clarify my opinion that all of us have the CA in them. Some are just more severe cases than others.

Mac

<small>[ March 13, 2005, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Hi, cwmac.

I am glad that you started this thread. I was thinking of starting a similar one myself a little while back. My schedule tends to limit my time here. I wish I could spend more time here.

You asked for thoughts, so here are mine.

The interesting thing to me about conflict avoidance, is that it only prolongs pain, which is the very thing a conflict avoider is trying to avoid.

The core issue for a conflict avoider is just simple plain old everyday fear. I see people here suffering more than they have to, or longer than they have to, simply because they can not bear the thought of facing their issues.

The pain here is sometimes almost more than I can bear to read, yet I see people avoid doing the very thing that would minimize the pain and the duration of the suffering, simply because they are frightened.

I try, when I post to a new person, to tell them up front that pain has come to pay them a visit, and that there is no avoiding its stay. I do that in an effort to help them face what they must walk through. Some get it, and move along quickly, others get stuck, wallowing in fear, avoiding the very conflict that they must face, indeed WILL face at some point, regardless of their fear.

The sooner people realize that there is no spoonful of sugar to help the medicine of affair recovery go down, the better.

Conflict is a part of life. I learned a long time ago that I had to deal with whatever life threw at me. Running way from it only made it worse. For me, that basic understanding saved my life, and allowed me a successful marriage.

No one is a perfect conflict facer, and no one is a complete conflict avoider. I agree with your assessment ;"Just wanted to clarify my opinion that all of us have the CA in them. Some are just more severe cases than others."

All the best,
Gimble

Hi cwmac,

I think CA over normal relationship issues was the BIGGEST contributor to a general slow deadening of my feelings for H, low self-esteem, a feeling of loss of control and dissatisfaction with my life prior to my A.

I had a family situation the opposite to what you describe for your W - mine was that my parents either repressed conflict and were sometimes passive aggressive, or, when it couldn't be repressed any longer, had explosive arguments, involving shouting matches and trading insults often in front of us kids.
I grew up doing anything I could to pretend all was well in my relationships and 'smooth over' conflicts. If I couldn't do that I would just withdraw.

In this I have finally changed, thanks to 6 months of IC, lots of thinking, talking to H and also an assertiveness training course, which I would highly recommend.

Did you seen Pep's thread about conflict avoiders from a while back? It was great.

I can relate to conflict avoidance.
I wish there were a magic pill to
to take !
Definitely having trouble communicating my needs.
FWH can't meet them or is not clear on what they are. Who knows?

I can't stand CHAOS ! I want everything to be nice and easy...

Psychobabble???I grew up in a home where my Dad was an alcoholic, he ended up taking his own life over 12 years ago. Is growing up in this environment a reason I am the way I am ?? Or is it an excuse?

I am interested in what others have to say on this topic.

CAs?? Here! *waving hand*
But DFW was the bigger CA.
I avoided conflict bc my mother taught me that we 'don't make waves,' which I tried to abide by but would voice my displeasure (DJs, AOs) when pushed.
DFW avoided conflict bc his family was chaos. His CH was a series of men that his mother met, then a horrible, domineering man she Med, yelling, screaming, the whole nine yards. He figured if he voiced any kind of "conflict," chaos would ensue - so he kept his mouth shut - for over 10 years.
Boy was he pissed at me by the time he had his A!! Of course I had NO IDEA how pissed bc he never opened his mouth!
We are MUCH better now. Occasionally I give a "nothing" response when he asks what's wrong, sometimes I feel 'negative vibes' from him and he won't voice what he's feeling but over all, we are doing well!
Making those changes, improving the communication. Working on it every day.

Post on mine and I'll post on yours <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Mac,

I was the CA, not my WW, but either way, I think that when one person is it creates a shut down in communication. My WW is an adult child of an alcoholic and I have learned quite a bit about the destructiveness that alcoholism creates. BUT I made the mistake of attributing most if not all our problems to that. I would tolerate her AOs knowing that she didn't mean half of what she said, but forgot to listen to the other half.

Personally, I think CA is a symptom of shut down communication and not the heart of the problem. Still addressing it directly may help open communication again.

Add me to the bunch.

My WH was a CA too and like TR,I think SoOo much could have been avoided,solved and even improved had my WH told me anything,ANYTHING that he was feeling deep down that lead him to where he is now.

I love to talk.I can chat away all day about all issues,even sad ones, even ones that hurt me because I have this...desire? so to speak to feel everything and let it pass though me,deal with it,soak it up.Maybe it came from all those years of Meditation but I am so intune with my inner self that it does not phase me to deal with emotions,all kinds.

So I was probably the complete opposite of a CA and I find it very sad that my WH could not come and talk to me anymore,he chose some homewrecking stranger to share things with. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

My WH and I never fought and had what I deemed an easy going relationship.That all changed when he cheated and he was even more afraid to talk to me because of my anger and profound sadness.He kept far away rather than face anything when all I wanted was for him to come and hold me and tell me that I mattered to him and that he made a huge mistake.Afterall,we were best friends for almost 20 years.Or were we? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I like to deal with any issue/problem head on,right away.Always have.I hear a lot of women,in particular,say "Nothing" when a spouse or BF askes then what is wrong but that really upsets me because we all know that there IS something wrong so bring it up and deal with it! Dag nabit.Face the music peoples.

I have said before that I think communication problems are the worst things facing married couples today.Financial problems a close second.

JMHO.

O

Hi cwmac:

I can tell you that it 100 percent was not that way with me.

I don't know how plainer I could have made it to my husband. I told him in very simple terms that I wasn't happy with a number of things. I said this many times over a period of years. He just never seemed to get it.

Finally, after upteenth times of me telling him that I needed more of a love life, his suggestion was that I find someone "to take the pressure off" him. And I did. And so our mess began.

But! That has changed. The affair was an awful but ultimately perhaps very useful wake-up call for both of us. Just wish we could have figured it all out another way.

Hate to break a trend. But I was the conflict avoider in my couple. My WS avoids being completely truthful with her emotions, but NOT afraid of conflict. I do better with conflict at work.

Conflict Avoidance, I believe was the biggest contributing factor for little ole me to have an A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I have dug deep within myself and searched my soul for answers to why this happened and what I found was I have many character flaws that contributed to my choice in having the A.

Small list, lack of self-esteem, people pleaser, lack of self worth, and the top of the list conflict avoider.

My character flaws led me to conflict avoid everything that might have stopped me from having my A.

Conflict avoidance was my way of life, had I Talked to my H about unmet EN, had I told my H specific things I did not like, had I told my H specific things I did like, had I told OM to back off when I felt his advances, had I told OM's W, who was my friend, about her H's advances, had I told my H about OM's advance, I could have prevented this A from happening.

However in my weak, flawed state, I did none of these things, and I took the cowards way out, I conflict avoided it all, and I chose the A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Recovering Conflict Avoider,
KY

<small>[ March 14, 2005, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: kyellow4 ]</small>

{{{KY}}}

You are awesome! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks Big O. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Keep it coming...so far most are backing my theory. 80-90%

Mac

Mac, my WW could write exactly what Jelly did. I think it definitely leads to lots of affairs and divorces.

GC

This is a great discussion!
CAs? *waving hands wildly and THEN pointing to H! - looking somewhat ashamed and shrugging, saying me? maybe a little..*
My H is the bigges CA that I have ever met. For a long time, I really thought that he was just that easy-going.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Boy was he pissed at me by the time he had his A!! Of course I had NO IDEA how pissed bc he never opened his mouth!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is MY STORY too!!!
I realized that my H had LOTS of not-so-hidden resentment by the time we were married about 3 years!! We went to MC, at MY insistence, where he denied any resentment and made it all my imagination and over-sensitivity (he even pushed it on my past depression probs, Boy did that hurt).

Funny (not ha-ha) but the EXACT SAME things that I had "accused" him of being resentful of in MC, were the EXACT SAME things that I taped him Venting (with a capital V) about in June '03, about 3 years after he denied in MC!! This is when he had his alleged A.

I can take my blame. Like Caren (sorry, hun), I express anger pretty well! I HAVE been working on this for years and have gotten MUCH better, nowhere near perfect. In my defense, how many buttons do they have to push before one can't help but retaliate and push back. HOW does one avoid AOs and DJs after being manipulated, CAed and passive-aggressived out the WAZOO!!!! I can start out a conversation, sweet and as unconflicting as possible, but somewhere into it - 15 to 45 minutes usually - communication doesn't just breakdown, it takes a major nosedive and crashes with a huge (no, two) huge explosions!!

NOW, I have become more of a conflict avoider over time spent with my H. Sometimes it easier to sweep under the rug, but boy that rug gets SOO bumpy and stinky. And I prefer hardwood, where there is just no hiding that dirt!!! Can I switch analogies here? I like animals, but I don't like elephants in the room. I will try to get that darn elephant OUT, whereas my H thinks it is soo cute and we just won't even notice it among the clutter and rest of the animals!!

THIS is my major prob. To me, CA is totally against Policy of Radical Honesty and openness and honesty are my biggest needs!! (H knows this too). And not communicating is utterly destructive to relationships!!! Conflict Avoidance doesn't avoid conflict, it just feeds it and that elephant just gets hungrier and poops more!!! I clean up enuf poop around here - How do we get rid of that elephant??

jls

oops- my bad. Double.
jls

<small>[ March 14, 2005, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: jlseagull ]</small>