Most of the postings are talking about OP as someone working with you, on line affairs, or a close friend. What if the person is someone who has been in your life since you were a teenager and have never gotten over them? Your parents didn't stop the relationship and a bond was created permanently. Yet, the person is not capable of giving you the things you most wanted, so you looked elsewhere, you settled. The person comes in and out of your life because of close contact to your parents living arrangements. Your feelings have never faded and continue to reappear in your dreams and thoughts during your life time. What do you do when there is NC for years and yet the person is still in your dreams and thoughts for a life time? Yes, this is a situation in my marriage as well? Another little thing to keep me lost!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lisa V.:
<strong>Yet, the person is not capable of giving you the things you most wanted, so you looked elsewhere, you settled.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, Lisa, what was the foundation of your "settlement." You really didn't think - at the time - you should be marrying the person you did? You "settled" for someone who was not exactly the person or idea of a person you should be marrying? You imagined yourself marrying someone else - even a hypothetical person?

How much of this was a conscious decision at the time vs in hindsight now?

I didn't know the person I married very well at all. Just knew that he and I wanted to be married and have children. This was a conscious decision. Our mutual friend thought we would be great together. I knew I could not get what I wanted from the previous lover, so I went with the one that could. I was the one to ask him to marry me. I was the one to persue things. He was coming from a failed marriage. I pushed and didn't really get to know him well enough. This is hindsight talking.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lisa V.:
<strong>This was a conscious decision.

This is hindsight talking. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you please clarify? You did or didn't consciously know at the time that you were "compromising" on your choice of a marriage partner?

WAT

It was a conscious decision made after a 6 year relationship ended.

What did your husband think of marrying you? Were you a "settlement" after his failed marriage? Do you know or are you speculating?

Did you have children with your husband? How long have you been married? When did you start longing for your prior lover? What were the things you "most wanted" that the first guy couldn't give you that your husband could?

WAT

I don't believe I was a settlement to my husband. I know he was afraid to remarry. We were also expecting, so he felt obligated too.
We have been married 15 years and have three children.
I longed for him about 6 mo. to a year after our child was born.
My husband gave me kids, was a financial provider, and much more reliable and committed to a family.

<small>[ March 14, 2005, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Lisa V. ]</small>

So what is it that the original guy can give you now that your husband isn't giving you?

WAT

Lisa,
Your situation is very similar to my W's. She met her OM at work in 1984. To the best of my knowledge there was no physical stuff, but there definitely was the EA. Secrecy, intimacy & sexual chemistry.

She was engaged to me at the time and he was very close to getting married as well. They both stayed the course. maybe at the time they didn't want to admit the feelings.

My W nearly 15 years later had an affair both EA and PA with this OM. Just recently I found proof that despite her stories to the contrary, she and OM kept their "friendship" going for our entire marriage. It was calls and probably lunches at least 2-3 times a year.

Harmless friendship. Right? No PA and barely an EA at times. Right?

The reality is that subconsciously my wife compared me to OM our entire marriage. If we had an argument, she'd avoid the conflict and go get her "feel goods" from OM.

This what you've done as well. Your OM has been a wedge in your marriage from day 1. Your H never had a chance.

My wife has now lived with me for 20 years. I know all her warts and she knows mine. The world of the OM was a complete fantasy. He pretended to be what he wasn't and wife added more. She put him up on the pedestal of non-reality.

In talking with his wife, he is almost the opposite of my wife's impression. His wife knows all of his faults. He is not Mr Upbeat: he constantly needs his wife's reassurance. He is not Mr Intimate: doesn't communicate well with his family. I could go on...

Does any of this sound familiar???

Please respond to me

Mac

WAT
I appreciate you asking the difficult question. In fact, I had to take time to think about it for a while. The thing the OM has that my H doesn't is his excitement and finesse for life. OM makes my heart skip a beat, my hands sweat, and my nerves to quiver. I just get excited when I see him. OM makes me smile and laugh. OM is not as serious as my H. OM is more outgoing and laid back.

Lisa - my line of questioning has not been random, but has been with a specific purpose in mind. I've been participating on this forum since Sept 2000 and I think I have a pretty good feel for the disease of infidelity. That said, I have never met you nor do I know everything there is to know on this topic - far from it.

But I think I know enough to say that you are displaying the classic tendency among people involved in affairs to effectively (for themselves) rewrite history. Classic. We see it on this forum every day. You are effectively fooling yourself, rationalizing, convincing yourself that your former lover is more than he is or ever was. But you WANT to believe what you have written, so you DO believe it - despite all rationality to the contrary.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My husband gave me kids, was a financial provider, and much more reliable and committed to a family. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OM makes my heart skip a beat, my hands sweat, and my nerves to quiver. I just get excited when I see him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But what sense does this make? - an established family vs "feelings." Are you a teenie bopper or a grown woman? Are you capable of rational thought? Even if he DOES make you quiver, why is this better than what your H and your family provide you?

Am I making your nerves quiver? Your hands sweat? i.e., are you having an emotional reaction to where I'm taking you? So I could replace OM? Pretty silly, huh?

You have warm, tingly feelings NOT for OM, but for the way he makes you feel. You enjoy the feeling. OM doesn't do this - you do. OM is merely the drug of choice. An escape from the hard reality of real life. You put energy into thoughts of him to give you a fix.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your parents didn't stop the relationship and a bond was created permanently. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Huh? What kind of excuse, logic, crap is this?

Who is responsible for your relationships? Wanna guess?

A permanent bond? What kind of bond? Attachment to someone who cannot provide what you know is good stuff - a family and security? Sounds like a bond you can do without. Get rid of it. Discover that it's NOT permanent.

I suggest you take a long look at your children and put energy into your family and discover a much better fix. One that has some rational basis behind it. Enlist the help of your husband to make your family the focus of your energy. Put your family before your "good feelings."

I can't tell you exactly how to accomplish this, but you see the reality of the need, right? Find a way. Recognize OM for what he is - a stimulant, a drug, misplaced priorities. Act on your intellect, not your emotions.

Read around this forum and see the diaster stories. It's a good sign that you are asking questions, just ask the right ones > "How can I best get this ball and chain from around my ankle?"

WAT

Mac
I don't see how your W's situation is similar to mine. The OM and I grew up together. We were 15 and 16 years old. We lived next door to each other. OM was my first love and we shared a special bond with each other. We knew each other's flaws and all. We were good friends and lovers. We were there for each other during our high school and college years. We didn't have a formal relationship but we there when the other needed to feel loved. We supported each other.

Our relationship ended due to NC, when I moved out of town. I knew the OM would never get married or committ to a serious relationship. The OM is still not married and probably never will be either.

I met my H and got married. We got M because we were expecting and we were older than most 26 and 27 years old. We wanted children. I did not have a serious relationship with the OM to compare to my H. The OM was not a wedge in my M. My H did have a chance and still does. There was NC with the OM. Our M was good until the stess of Navy life, kids, and financial problems started to appear about 4 years into the M. H has had to learn how to be a spouse, husband, and father. My H had very little experience with other women. It has taken almost our whole marriage for H to figure out how to SF me. The OM was able to SF me from the beginning. I tried not to compare my H to the OM. It was the constant dreams about the OM that bothered me. It felt like I was having an EA.

My H is the CA. I tried to get him to talk about finances, kids, and our relationship. I felt loneliness, frustration, and no love. The Navy life, it's responsiblities, and the stress of three children left me empty. Due to in law family problems, I went back home to visit both our families. My H could not come with us and I brought the kids with me. While I was there I had a PA or a ONS with the OM. I felt terrible after it happened and told my H. He forgave me.

Years passed and very little contact made on line or by phone. I continued to work on my M. We have seen numerous counselors and not much has changed. I can't get inside my H to be able to solve the revolving door issues in our M.

No I don't see were my situation is like your wife's and no it doesn't sound familiar. I have tried to resolve conflicts and have been willing to go to counseling to strenghten and fix my marriage.

<small>[ March 16, 2005, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Lisa V. ]</small>

<small>[ March 16, 2005, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Lisa V. ]</small>

<small>[ March 16, 2005, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Lisa V. ]</small>

Hi Lisa,
Maybe I'm misinterpreting your response but it seems as though my post has made you angry. I saw some simalarities and so I tried to express them. I'm not sure why I hit a nerve. I was trying to be helpful.

Good luck,

Mac

MAC
Did not mean to come across as angry. I don't believe I have put the OM as a wedge in my M though. My H the CA is not opening up to me, he doesn't feel any environment is a safe one. His pervious M and his childhood did not help him. He is refusing to see a IC. I just don't know what else I can do? Our MC said "it just may be as good as it gets!" My H has had chances, but doesn't seem to get what it is I need from him or he just can't give me what I need. Again, sorry for the misunderstand and thanks for responding.

WAT
Thanks for responding to my thread.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I think I know enough to say that you are displaying the classic tendency among people involved in affairs to effectively (for themselves) rewrite history. Classic. We see it on this forum every day. You are effectively fooling yourself, rationalizing, convincing yourself that your former lover is more than he is or ever was. But you WANT to believe what you have written, so you DO believe it - despite all rationality to the contrary.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never said the OM was better than my husband or that I was leaving my husband for him. I know what I have with my husband and my family. I don't want to lose that either. I just am trying to figure out how to get me needs met and how to get my husband to meet those needs when he won't go to IC or communicate when things get difficult. What do you do when the MC says, " this may be as good as it gets!" Yes, I am a grown woman, but I have past relationships that do mean something to me. Like your first love! When you give yourself to someone else for the first time! When you have a baby with them and your parents make you get rid of it because they can't support you or the baby! I have never loved something so much as I did for that baby! Love can not be taken away when you give it freely. Yes, I have made mistakes in my life and regret them. My family has always come first before my own needs. I have been married 15 years to a Navy man, who is gone for mo. at a time. My kids are my life and that is all I have to my name. I have given up my career for my family as well. How much more does a woman have to give up in order to be happy! No,I don't believe being with the OM would be better. I know it would be worse. I have two lists. One for my H and for the OM and my H wins hands down. I hope I am sounding rational and not in a fog. How do you stop the dreams of the OM for the last 15 years? How do you dream about your H? What happens when the love just disappears? What do you do when you think you might have made a mistake? What if this is as good as it gets? I should be satisfied with that, right? I am not going to quit trying to find the answer either.

Thanks for you input. Guess I sound like a real W/S. Oh, trying to get the ball and chain off my ankle!

Hi Lisa,
Tone is very difficult to gage over the internet. Have to read the literal meaning of the words.

Anyway...the reason I thought our situations were simialr was bc of the wedge created. My wife's contact with OM created an environment of comparison whether conscious or otherwise.

I though in your post that you indicated that you had had longing thoughts of the OM your entire marriage. This sentence...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Your feelings have never faded and continue to reappear in your dreams and thoughts during your life time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It sounded as though you had been in sporadic contact with him...


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The person comes in and out of your life because of close contact to your parents living arrangements.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">although it was confusing bc you also said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you do when there is NC for years and yet the person is still in your dreams and thoughts for a life time? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How much contact has there been over the ears? Did you mean that your parents were giving you updates and you never spoke with OM???

Either way I believe in your situation the OM or the memory of the OM has driven a wedge between you and your H.

Don't get me wrong your H has contributed to the state of your marriage. Just like in my case I contributed to my marriage problems. On several occassions I made the decision not to have a ONS. My wife on the other hand made her decision and acted.

Have you thought about what WAT posted to you??

Does your H know about your continued feelings for OM? I think you really need to be honest with your H. Sit him down and tell him of these continued feelings. Tell him what your top emotional needs are. Tell him which ones OM has begun providing.

Mac