i have been trying to reach H all day, he has not attempted to contact me.

it is now 2pm.

my day has not been a very good one, not productive at all.

right now i have a headache, my heart is beating fast and my eyes are not focusing very well.

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning-T2M ]</small>

Ok relax -deep breaths - I have done the same thing. Now I have found out my H cell was shut off, or he was in a roaming area and did not answer. Your H is standing by you and you need to remember that OK. What do you think is going on? Does he have a cell phone - also one day I realized I had not charged ny phone and it went dead and had left my car charger at home. Stuff happens.

i don't think anything is going on, like he is up to something bad, if that is what you mean.

i do think we don't talk because it is not pleasant for him to communicate with me.

between work, my son being in a play and my H having to travel a lot these past 2 weeks i think i am just worn out and wanting closeness. we have SF, it's not a lack of physical closeness, although we don't actually have intercourse which makes me feel sad. i am happy he can enjoy some sort of SF with me, and i enjoy it too. it's just so sad how messed up our relationship is.

i must be losing my patience again. i want him to be madly in love with me. i want him to be happy we are together, i want him to smile when he sees me. i want him to be happy.

FLT2M -

Did you hear from you H yet? Why no actual SF - is he waiting for STD tests, or is he just not willing?

"i want him to be madly in love with me. i want him to be happy we are together, i want him to smile when he sees me. i want him to be happy."

I know you know this will take time. Meanwhile, concentrate on being madly in love with him, letting him know you are happy to be with him, and smile when you see him!

You can probably read his moods pretty well by now. If he needs space, love him by giving him space. If he needs to be close, love him by being close.

It seems to be hard for us (women especially?) to do, but make an effort not to let his mood affect or determine what mood you are going to be in.

Take deep breaths. Distract yourself by doing the (safe, healthy, legal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) things you know will relax you.

God bless,

Rose

Ok -maybe you can show him how much you love him. Why no intercourse yet? Tell him you want him. I understand about conversation- and having that closesness again. I am afraid of that closesness right now. I am afraid I will be hurt again. Wasn't your D-Day last year? Have you been going to MC ? You need to talk about these things that are unpleasant as well. I know I have to force myself to tell my WH as he never asks me. That hurts - and I feel he is not interested. You know we all got so uses to NOT talking and now we have to force ourselves to talk. I wish it just came like it did when we first met and were happy. I try everyday to remember the things that happened during the day to talk about at night. Trying to let him know about my day yet I do not tell him about how I had nightmares last night and what they were about. Him and OW. I think I have to tell him then I just want to have a pleasant night adn don't. So I am taking that responsiblity. I am going to start frocing myself to tell and I guess I need to ask him to listen. Maybe you tow could start by that. I want to set up a code word for when things get to painful that I or he can say it and that will make us back off. May that would help.

why no actual SF? i don't know. i can only guess he does not enjoy that with me anymore. and i don't want to say much about it because that would be pressuring him.

yes, i have reached him. not a great conversation. not a bad one. a distant feeling one. he knows i want him. he does not know what he wants.

i just have to accept this is my life for a while.

original d-day was about 1 year ago. Complete d-day was end of oct '04 (just about 5 months ago).

we have actually SF once in a while.

I guess waht I was saying we have to talk about the difficult issues as well as the good ones. Maybe he feels the same as you on some levels.

i dont know, all he ever says is that he does not know. i really am starting to think he does know and what he knows is that this is unforgivable to him. but he is avoiding it. he will choose to become numb and avoid it all. keep things status quo. with us at a comfortable distance apart. comfortable for him anyway.

F, I hope I can articulate this properly.

The manifestations of loving someone come naturally , but they aare almost consciously withheld by a FBS because it feels like rewarding a torture. Like kissing a rapist, like paying a ransom.

Thats how it felt to me after d-day and early recovery.

And all that caused some performance anxiety. So I wasn;t too gutted to not be having SF, if you see what I mean.

But it all just fell into place one day. It just did.

I stopped feeling that I was paying a ransor, or bribing a bully. My love overtook my hurt.

I can only pray that if similarly affected as me, your H will reach that point too.

PLEASE dont be offended at my terminology. Its how it felt. It doesn;t feel that way now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope this helps

{{{F}}}}

thanks Bob, nothing you said was offensive at all. i'm doing better. on my way home i called H and told him i will not ever decide to leave him. that HE has taught me the meaning of commitment and it is a beautiful thing. i said this to him because of something he said to me last night. something to try to lead me to say i think we should split then. but i will not ever say that ever again. i don't blame him for thinking i will. anyway, he responded with "that is nice to hear". when i got home i took an hour nap, he made dinner, it was very good and i thanked him for it. he is out right now, with my daughter, shopping. i am here with my son finishing homework. hopefully we will have some time to relax together before it gets too late.

thanks bob, rose and realtor for your posts today.

FL, just sending hugs your way {{FL}}

Hey FL,

I hope things are better for you now (((FL)))

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i have talked to H about me doing MC on my own. he has no opinion either way. says he does not care, it's up to me. i'm going to talk to IC about it on thursday. to see if it is a stupid idea or not. i hate feeling so helpless!!! i don't know what else to do. i have this huge fear that we will never truely recover because we are not dealing with it at all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was feeling like this a couple of months ago too. My H also didn't want MC or to read books or talk much about the A. He seemed to be distant and withdrawn from me. Pep gave me some advice at the time to keep filling his ENs and to suggest that we read parts of a book like Torn Asunder together.... say, after SF <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I did try that for a while and I also kept asking him about MC. A few weeks ago (8 1/2 months post dday) he finally, reluctantly, agreed that it couldn't hurt to search for a MC to go to. Then he didn't like the MC(s) I found for one reason or another. So I suggested he find one, which he did. We've been there 3 times and she's great. H really trusts and listens to her. I'm so impressed by how much effort he puts in to it and how honest and open he's been. He's even said a lot of nice things about me, the first I have heard from him post dday!

So anyway, I think with my H it was a matter of timing. He was prepared to work towards recovery, but he just wanted to do it when he felt ready, and in his own way.

Hope this is relevant to your sitch ((((FL))))

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning-T2M:
<strong> i dont know, all he ever says is that he does not know. i really am starting to think he does know and what he knows is that this is unforgivable to him. but he is avoiding it. he will choose to become numb and avoid it all. keep things status quo. with us at a comfortable distance apart. comfortable for him anyway. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: When the BS recovery time comes, if the Xws isn't stepping up to the plate enough from the BS POV, some BS go introvert. Status quo while it may seem safe, really isn't. Conflict avoiding and bypassing the closure will keep u 2 in this limbo land for as long as you BOTH allow it.

What have you both done to bring closure for yourselves and each other?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning-T2M:
<strong> .. i am happy he can enjoy some sort of SF with me, and i enjoy it too. it's just so sad how messed up our relationship is.

i must be losing my patience again. i want him to be madly in love with me. i want him to be happy we are together, i want him to smile when he sees me. i want him to be happy. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: U want? What does he want? This post of yours really jumped out at me. While it is good 'you want' him t/b happy, seems more like he needs to want it as much as you do. How can that happen? IMHO, you both need to help yourselves and each other with closure. Your movement forward w/b in unison. As one.

JMHO,
L.

FinallyLearning,

You just have to stay the course here. I think your H`s reactions to all of this is within the norm. I am the BS and I remember early recovery... the feelings of being unsure of what I wanted...the fear that I would never be able to get over it...the waffling back and forth in my feelings and my thoughts about the future.

Your H is still there with your right? I think he does want to recover but he`s not quite sure how. He`s not sure if he can. The BS hears from the experts "You can recover" but when you are in early recovery this is hard to believe. You cannot imagine EVER being able to recover from it much less ever feeling "normal" again.

But it does happen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You just have to be patient here. You follow the MB formula but you also need to let time do some of the healing. You can`t rush this. Don`t lost hope just because your H has not fully recovered yet.

I have always thought that SF after d-day for the BH must very difficult. Women can fake it...men cannot. If they are not up to it then there is no way they can hide this. And by faking it I don`t mean faking an O...I mean a woman does not have to aroused when she starts having SF...however a man does. Women can have it whether their body is cooperating or not. Men can`t do this.

This makes things more difficult for the BH. However I do think you are taking the right approach here...doing what you CAN do...and not pressuring your H. And if sometimes he can have full SF then that is great.

But you have to understand that in early recovery the BS`s feelings change from day to day...the infamous rollercoaster. The stabilizes as time passes. The BS begins to have more and more BETTER days...the rollercoaster levels off.

Now about those panic attacks. In the past I had those frequently. I still get them every couple of months...but the attacks are related to my perimenopause. I`ll get one the day before my period every couple of months. I have figured out how to handle them. I make myself sneeze a few times. I`ll use the tip of my finger, a feather, pepper or whatever and make myself sneeze. I know this sounds weird but this put an immediate end to the panic attack. And it works everytime. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And about the IC for yourself...I think it would be a good idea. If you want to do it then go for it. Part of recovery is working on oneself. I did somethings on my OWN for myself...that had NOTHING to do with my H or the M but they ended up helping the M anyway. IMHO anything that helps us be better people overall has a spillover effect on the M.

why am i so unforgivable???

smur - thanks for the encouragement. i am happy your situation is working out. maybe mine will eventually turn out the same.

orchid - i do believe he is more comfortable status quo than to take the chance of being hurt again. he told me today, we may never be close again. what we have now may be all that is possible. How do i not allow that to be his decision?? i'm not expecting an answer because i know the answer, it is his decision to make. then the question becomes, what do i do about that decision? you say we will only stay in limbo land if we BOTH allow it. it seems like we will be in limbo land as long as one of us chooses it.

we are not working together, that is what is so frustrating to me. how do i get him to join me in recovery? this is how our marriage was for the majority of the time. he would not have anything to do with working on our marriage. he did not want a closer relationship, he was perfectly fine the way we were. married, living in the same house but living seperate lives. i cannot live that way!!!

you guys misunderstood when i say we have no actual SF. he is completely capable, there has been no problem with ability, none what so ever. he just prefers to not have actual sex. says that is harder to deal with than just enjoying foreplay to completion.

daisy, sorry i missed responding to you...

i have been in IC since about april of 2004, or maybe it was may. it has been very good for me.

again, he has no problem having his body be ready for SF. his body is cooperating, he just does not want to have sex.

ok, at least you made me laugh about the sneezing idea. that really works??? lol

bump!!

does this mean you all agree my actions are unforgivable?

HI FLT2M -

I don't think anyone believes you're unforgiveable! It's hard sometimes to keep up with all the posts on here.

I agree with Daisy about not trying to rush things. Meanwhile, try to concentrate on also being happy (or at least content) in other areas of your life.

Enjoy your children, job, hobbies, etc. Make an effort to be the best person you can be all around and enjoy your life the best you can.

It seems like so many of us try to make our happiness depend completely on one person - expecting, demanding, and depending on that one person or relationship to bring us happiness and fulfillment. It's a lot to ask of one person.

I know it's disappointing that you aren't as close to your H right now as you want to be. Keep doing your best and believe things will improve. Keep the faith.

God bless,

Rose

Finally Learning....Your subject line has made me sit here with tears rolling down my face.

You are not unforgiveable, actually you are one of the nicest people I know here on MB.

I am getting kinda 'mad' at your H for making you feel this way.

It sounds like he is still having you give him oral sex instead of 'regular sex'...Something is just not right with him and you. He is controlling you, making you feel unworthy.

I remember a while back, he wouldn't kiss you because of your being with other men.

Well, the way I see it, he either forgives you or he doesn't. And if he can't, maybe you need to PLAN B HIM!

Plus, you have always defended your H and been SO SURE that he is not being unfaithful to you.

However, as an outsider, I see signs of it. Could it possibly be?

I care very much about you and feel it is time for you to be FREE of this burden of sin that you keep carrying around.

You have made that all important U-Turn in your life, you should feel GOOD, not have this lingering sadness.

When I forgave my H, I forgave him. He did not have to continually ask for forgiveness.

Just like when we ask God for forgiveness, all it takes is once with a sincere and repentant heart.

Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />