This has been rolling around in my head for quite sometime, and I'm hoping someone can give me some insight ~

I am just now 3 years past d-day and in recovery, actually we're post recovery and doing very well.

We've been through coaching with SH and still use MB principles in our marriage. Because my husband followed SH's recovery plan, and felt remorse, and agreed to NC right away - I trust that he will not make the mistake of having another affair.

He's one of the WS who felt tremendous guilt, which led him to telling me about the affair to begin with. So he's given me every reason to trust him, and our marriage is better than ever. I know I'm one of the lucky ones as a result.

So what's the problem???

I STILL question my ability to know intuitively whether or not he's capable ofhaving another affair. It's me and my instincts I question, not him.

I was so stunned on d-day - in the camp of "it would never happen in our marriage"; and even more amazing, I was convinced I was very "intuitive" and if he did have an affair, of course I would just know!! Blindsided & floored is how I felt, along with all the other extreme emotions that come with the territory.

Wrong, wrong, wrong....He had the affair, and I didn't know. He ended the affair, before he told me; however he was still in contact - so technically it probably wasn't over from at least an EN standpoint. It certainly wasn't over from the OW's standpoint since she has continued to try and contact him.

We hadn't read SAA prior to him telling me about the affair, but instinctively I demanded NC, and he agreed, wrote his version of NC, and I mailed it.

So, how and will I learn to trust my own instincts again? I've forgiven my husband, and even the OW - so I know it's not a question of forgiveness. Maybe I need to forgive myself for not knowing. Maybe that's what itis!

<small>[ March 14, 2005, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

The fact that he had an affair and you never knew about it makes you feel stupid and vunerable. Sometimes women do have those hints, and instincts that tip us of, and sometimes we just love our men so much that we never want to believe that this would ever happen. When it does, it's like a suckerpunch. You do need to look inside yourself and find out how you can trust him again. It will take time. You will still question him and your marriage, but eventually you will get there. You said the otherwoman still tries to contact him. Is he being completely honest about not speaking to her anymore? If she can't get the clue, maybe you should talk to her. Let her know that you know, and that you would kindly appreciate it if she would leave hime alone. If it gets ugly, you may have to get a restraining order. I know it sounds scary, but sometimes people can't accept that it's over. You need to be firm with him and her that this behavior will not be tolerated by you. Wish you luck.

CSue
I fell badly for you as I have for many others here including myself. It is not that we were blind or ignored the signals of destruction. It is not that we were ignorant to the clues. It is because we were in total love and trust of our spouses and their vows to us and chose to ignore what we could not believe someone we love unconditionally could do to us.
Blaming ourselves for what is true to reality is condemning ourselves to never trusting again. This is not good since we pledged and remained true.
The problem is not within us but falls squarely on the spouse who discarded and used our trust.
Do not blame yourself for overlooking these clues since they were nonsense and still are nonsense in reality. Your spouse fell prey to basic needs and decided selfishly they deserved what they have found without consideration.

SM

Hi CSue,

Yuck, 3 yrs and still alot of questions... And he did everything right! I would like to think that you two went on your merry way and lived happily ever after, but perhaps that is what you are doing and making sure that you are doing it right!

Yeah, I know, questioning yourself is a big issue for BS's!! I remember reading about trust recently and that the BS has to learn to trust and it is as much a BS issue as a Ws issue. Meaning that the BS has to decide to trust the WS, let themselves, choose to trust. Well, maybe you have to choose to trust yourself again also!!

You know, we also tend to think that others (esp. beloved spouses) are not going to do anything that we ourselves are not going to do. I mean, if you haven't even thought about it... If you never even thought about cheating, that concept is not "real" to you. I, myself have been tempted, and told my H as much.... Therefore it becomes much easier to realize that he could be tempted also!

You sound like a lot of us here. You let everyone off the hook (after time, anyway), but YOURSELF. And you did NOTHING wrong. YOU took your vows seriously and simply assumed that your H did the same. Shame on you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I am very happy for you that you are in recovery and things are going well! Nice to see that here. And actually, you are so very smart to keep up the good work. I love this place and most of its' concepts. There are many intelligent people that post here. Unfortunately, so many are hurting and only find MB when in pain.

You are one of the "lucky" ones. Funny, you should feel lucky about something like infidelity!

jls

Thanks, all of you for responding...


HAW, other than not telling me the first time she contacted him "because he wanted to spare me the pain", he's been very good about telling me every time she has contacted.

He even lets me listen to the voice mails for myself. I finally sent her a letter after one of her more outrageous stunts...since then she hasn't tried to contact him as much.

I definitely feel like my husband and are are one team working together to deal with her. And I do feel blessed for that.

I am so fortunate compared to others, I don't want to whine! Maybe, I need to simply work on "letting this go"....because some things, just don't have a resolution.

SM, it's interesting the sense of entitlement my husband had during the affair that I didn't know was happening. It's definitely not the case now. His behavior is truly of one who realizes they made a big mistake, and was willing to do whatever it took to make it up to me. He actually said those words.


jls...

I do have this sense of living "happily ever after" and it is a good peaceful feeling. But it does take work and doesn't happen on its own - it is important to be reminded of that - it's work...but work in a pleasing way. We have issues like anyone else - but I feel like we have coping skills and tools that we didn't have before...a "gift" of having gone through this experience!

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CSue:
<strong>
I STILL question my ability to know intuitively whether or not he's capable ofhaving another affair. It's me and my instincts I question, not him.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is the question here "is he capable of having another A?" or is the question "if he had another A would I pick up on it?"

These are two completely different questions.

But I think you already have the answer to both of these questions.

After going through d-day and recovery...the BS becomes highly sensitized. If it were to happen again I think you would pick up on it. In hindsight I have learned what to look for.

And I am assuming that you and your H have done the work and made the changes right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Is there any reason why your H would want to have another A? I think this is what you need to be on the lookout for...if you are meeting the EN`s and MORE importantly is HE is meeting yours...I think you can rest easy.

I don`t worry about this on a day to day basis anymore because I have learned to look at the WHOLE picture...Is H meeting my EN`s? Am I meeting his? Is he accountable for his time? Has all suspicious activity ended? The answers to these questions for us is YES!!! So I am not worried.

Now this does not mean that I think H would NEVER have another A. I think if things changed back to the way that they were before he could.

But I would see it. And I think you would too.

You take this day by day....and don`t worry about it.

My dear CSUE:

I remember Steve H. telling me that infidelity ranks high as a major trauma. He stated that it has more longterm effects than even incest. We have been severely wounded and I think we will remain emotionally disabled to a certain extent.

So just like a person with a chronic illness, I feel that I have to stay on a PLAN to keep myself from becoming fully disabled or to keep myself from falling apart. I think this a lesson that I learned well during PLAN B. I had to come up with a system for living without my H. I know I can exist without him now. Somedays I even find myself envisioning what it might be like to have to do that.

MY CONTINUED PLAN involves: PURPOSEFULLY trying to be the best person that I can be, having certain goals for each day whether it is to cook a certain meal, check out a new website (if I can stay away from MB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , making sure to workout and eat healthily, listening to a book on tape while I workout, having a certain book going, journaling in my PERSONAL GROWTH BOOK, working on MY PLAN A with my H (i.e. meeting his ENs).

Get the picture? The list goes on. It's funny. I've never really said this out loud until your post. The thing is , I've continued to have a plan. I don't live like I used to where "life just happens". I'm proactive. I CEASE THE DAY AND TRY TO GET THE MOST I CAN OUT OF EACH DAY. Now I feel like there is not enough time in each day to do all that I want and need to do.

I really know with certainty that if my H chooses to leave me or to have another A : I've continued to do all that I can do to be the best wife there is and I can make it on my own without him.

Thanks Daisy;

I truly don't think he'd have another affair, he seemed to feel that he betrayed himself 1st before he betrayed me...and believe me he suffered dearly on d-day and beyond.

It's more that I was soooooooo sure it wouldn't happen the first time; then when it did it was as though someone proved the world was flat afterall.

I felt as though I had let myself down, even though a few of the signs were there. That's part of what was so appalling - he was a great actor, I think partly because of the sense of entitlement that others mention. It was too easy to have the affair with this OW, and he said she was always "nice" to him, however he initiated the affair.

I could do a better job, doing the work it takes to make a healthy marriage - maybe my concern comes from slacking off just a bit...

Mimi;

You're absolutely right. I need to make a plan and be as serious about it as I was in my homework for recovery. I have an entire spiral notebook of notes to myself, plans etc.

I've forgotten to make this a lifelong effort of love - you're a good example of "living MB principles"!

It's taken time, but my husband has met every single requirement I "demanded" in order to stay in our marriage. Some things took almost the 3 years we've been post d-day - but I learned the value of timing and realistic expectations.

So, my job is to live up to what SH told me I need to do in order to maintain a healthy marriage. I wrote that stuff down, step by step. And it's been a long time since I've even looked at it. It's time to make a plan!

Thank you for your input!

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

CSue,

My WH had told me early in our marriage that if he ever was involved in an affair, I'd know.

Thinking back, I think I knew all along. It lasted 6 months. There were signs but you know how you tend to dismiss them, thinking "HE WOULD NEVER DO THAT TO ME!!"

I"d like to think I'd recognize the signs if it happened again. In my case though I've given away to him all the ways I've found out the info, so he would jut know to go deeper and find other ways to hide it, unfortunately.
I hope this isn't the issue in your situation. It certainly doesn't sound like it, however it never hurts to keep that in the back of your mind.

It is in the back of your mind if you have asked the question here. Good luck.

Suzy,

The signs of him having an affair just weren't there. He was very very good at pulling off "normal".

The main odd behavior was that he would sabatoge an evening here and there when we were having a particularly great time. They were times when I felt so connected to him - life felt perfect. And he would suddenly get very mean, say and do mean things out of the blue with no context to what we were doing or what was happening.

It was very hurtful. Thinking back I think he was having a very nice time too and it was the GUILT of knowing he was betraying me, he started the fights to "prove" to himself he was justified in having the affairs.

So when d-day occurred, and I realized he was having the affair during the times he pulled his mean behavior; it was an AH HA moment for me.

I don't believe it was conscious for him; and I suspect that he would do the same thing if he had another affair....it would be a huge HELLO to me if I saw this behavior start up again!

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

CSue,
It is interesting for someone like me, only about 3 months past d-day to read from you that three years later you still question things.
I don't mean that in a bad way. Recovering from an A keeps both spouses on their toes, I'm sure.

jlseagull said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yuck, 3 yrs and still alot of questions... And he did everything right! I would like to think that you two went on your merry way and lived happily ever after, but perhaps that is what you are doing and making sure that you are doing it right!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You both must be doing something right!! It seems as if you are very aware of the actions of your FWH if this should happen again. That is a good thing. You can never trust each other too much. Dr. Harley says that in his books too I've noticed. I do think you would know.

CSue, my friend:

Well, as you well know my FWW has never been on board with MB methods or my coaching with Penny using them...

But I definitely understand what you are concerned about. In my struggle 2 figure out whether recovery is even in our fu2re after 3+ years since d-day, I find myself of late thinking about one of the things my W said at our first MC session, about 3 years ago this month. She asked if I'd be willing 2 take things a day at a time and decide whether we might want 2 renew our vows for our 30th anniversary. That's 9 months from now, and you know? I think I'm going 2 remind her of that question. At the time, I said something like "heck no! You can decide now!" But like many on here, I had no wild imaginations that I'd be at this 3 years hence. But here I am, and here I work.

I'm an atheist, as you know, with a religious background. One of the things I still believe in, or that I can at least appreciate deeply, is the notion that "salvation" is not a one-off event - it must be a daily renewal for the rest of our lives. Similarly, I believe that recovery - indeed marriage - is not a one-off event, but something that we continue for the rest of our lives. Surely, if we'd put the kind of energy in2 maintaining our marriages that we're now finding they need after being rocked by infidelity, from square one, we'd all be much more secure, happy people 2day.

Recovery may be something we discovered we needed 2 take 2 heart only recently, but it's something we should keep close 2 our spirits for the rest of our lives.

I firmly believe you will do fine, because you will never put this down. Recovery is a mission that lasts a lifetime.

-ol' 2long

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

So,

Next year more of same, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

We are getting a move worked out. This will involve a long separation, and my mother asked.."Are you concerned that he will be unfaithfull while you are away?"

My answer? NO..and yes.

No, because there is nothing in his behavior, or demeanor that indicates the return of the WS thought pattern [if you know what I mean]

Yes, because I do not any longer trust my own judgements and perceptions.

Sound familiar?

Noodle

Csue,

You seem like such a kind, thoughtful and loving person as do most on this board, if not all.

This board probably gives me more faith in mankind than anything else in my life, including church.

We have all ended up here for the same reasons, if on different sides of the equation but we are all trying to heal and regain what we lost through betrayal, at our own hands or at another.

I think it is the loss of innocence which is the most damaging of all that we lose.

I did not have a clue my ex-fiance was married. NONE. When I found out I still didn't believe it, it was incomprehensible to me. I remember my nephew called me the morning after my ex's wife called my house (he was babysitting for me) and told me his wife called. My sister made my nephew call me and tell me. I kept saying you must have misunderstood her, she must have said she was his old GF. Nephew kept saying no, she said wife.

The bottom to my world fell out that day. It was my innocence which was shattered. Even though I had been through it years earlier with DD's dad. What can I say I am a slow study. LOL

As far as trusting that I will know in the future, yes I am sure I will know because I will never blind trust anyone again. I think I'll forever be on my toes, on the lookout.

But for you, staying close to your husband with very open lines of communication is the protection you will need. And yes you will know if anything innappropriate is going on, I am sure of that.

I'm glad you are doing so well CSue, and that you and your husband have made it. It gives so much hope to others.