I am having such a hard time with this. I want to know the details. It seems that I could process everything better if I understood how it all went down rather than imagining in my head. How they came to find each other, how in love they really were etc. Is this abnormal?

If you do not want to know the details of the A, are you just that type of person all around?

Right after Dday I was concentrating on plan A and so these details weren't at the top of my need to know list. Now though, that we're on the road to recovery, I just feel I need to know.
thanks

Hi Suzy,

I am almost D'd but you asked about a BS who does NOT want to know about details.

Obviously everyone is different in what they want to know.This topic has come up before.Personally,I did not want to know details.In my opinion,I do not care what the adulterers did.It has no basis in my recovery.What does is how my WH was feeling and what he needed,not what the homewrecker gave him because frankly,it was all fantasy and I would not try to live up to that.There are legitimate needs and other issues that I would delve into wholeheartedly but not the sleazy sexual parts or the when and where's.Gross.I think that is detrimental and it leaves some BS's with mental movies that never go away fully.I would not want to have that in my brain while trying to recover.

JMHO.

O

edited for typos

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

oops

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

double oops(every afternoon on MB). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Suzy

on D-day I wanted to know everything. Squid couldn't or wouldn't tell me.

I believe that on d-day and thereafter teh experience was too precious forher tosully by telling me.

Now I believe she is too ashamed and afraid of hurting me to tell me.

However, OM told his partner ( of 14 years) everything and in turn she told me.

I know dates, times places of PA, and that when the EA was cemented.

I know from things OM GF and Squid told me that OM was no bed rocket but also that it was intense.

I know they discussed each others lives and lied to each other.

I've made love with Squid hundreds of times , I know what she looks like having sex.

I've also seen old short blonde men dressing at the gym and I can imagine what OM looked like having sex.

Now unless something huge is yet to be revealed I'm not sure I really need to know any more details about it.

My concerns and reasons and feelings now, noit details.

I would hope that Squid would offer to tell me one day however.

Suzie,
What you described about wanting some of the details, I think is normal. I believe that for a BS to have a true sense of security that this will not happen again it is important to have a clear understanding of what happened & what lead up to this as you said. In order to get to the root causes, if you will & I think it is important to get it out on top of the table.
I believe that for the BS, the principle of Open & Radical Honesty is important in order to rebuild the trust. I believe most books & resources would agree with this kind of principle. The BS should understand this, I think, particularly if they are truly interested in making amends. Many times though I see where this can be difficult for the WS – it can be like they don’t want to talk about it, they may just as soon sweep it under the rug, forget about & move on. The problem with this I believe is how can you fix something if you don’t why or how it is broke? This is a point I was never able to get to in my attempts for recovery. She never wanted to participate in any recovery process -formal or informal – No completion of emotional needs questionnaire as an example.

If possible, I believe MC is very helpful and of course IC to help work though a lot of this stuff. At the least a joint effort in working through the Harley principles. It is not just you coming up with all the ideas and it is not to punish or reinforce guilt feelings for the WS!
I agree with the other post to the extent of the S details. My X gave me pleanty of those, almost in a punishing way. All of this depends upon the context of course. I got more details than I need about specifics & still have some haunting thoughts about some of those details! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But it did give me the perspective of how obsessed my X was, which was important in the final analysis!
Rememeber, we are not professionals in counseling here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Best of Luck to you!
Peace be with you,
HH

Suzie,
What you described about wanting some of the details, I think is normal. I believe that for a BS to have a true sense of security that this will not happen again it is important to have a clear understanding of what happened & what lead up to this as you said. In order to get to the root causes, if you will & I think it is important to get it out on top of the table.
I believe that for the BS, the principle of Open & Radical Honesty is important in order to rebuild the trust. I believe most books & resources would agree with this kind of principle. The BS should understand this, I think, particularly if they are truly interested in making amends. Many times though I see where this can be difficult for the WS – it can be like they don’t want to talk about it, they may just as soon sweep it under the rug, forget about & move on. The problem with this I believe is how can you fix something if you don’t why or how it is broke? This is a point I was never able to get to in my attempts for recovery. She never wanted to participate in any recovery process -formal or informal – No completion of emotional needs questionnaire as an example.

If possible, I believe MC is very helpful and of course IC to help work though a lot of this stuff. At the least a joint effort in working through the Harley principles. It is not just you coming up with all the ideas and it is not to punish or reinforce guilt feelings for the WS!
I agree with the other post to the extent of the S details. My X gave me pleanty of those, almost in a punishing way. All of this depends upon the context of course. I got more details than I need about specifics & still have some haunting thoughts about some of those details! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But it did give me the perspective of how obsessed my X was, which was important in the final analysis!
Rememeber, we are not professionals in counseling here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Best of Luck to you!
Peace be with you,
HH

What you described about wanting some of the details, I think is normal. I believe that for a BS to have a true sense of security that this will not happen again it is important to have a clear understanding of what happened & what lead up to this as you said. In order to get to the root causes, if you will & I think it is important to get it out on top of the table.
I believe that for the BS, the principle of Open & Radical Honesty is important in order to rebuild the trust. I believe most books & resources would agree with this kind of principle. The BS should understand this, I think, particularly if they are truly interested in making amends. Many times though I see where this can be difficult for the WS – it can be like they don’t want to talk about it, they may just as soon sweep it under the rug, forget about & move on. The problem with this I believe is how can you fix something if you don’t why or how it is broke? This is a point I was never able to get to in my attempts for recovery. She never wanted to participate in any recovery process -formal or informal – No completion of emotional needs questionnaire as an example.

If possible, I believe MC is very helpful and of course IC to help work though a lot of this stuff. At the least a joint effort in working through the Harley principles. It is not just you coming up with all the ideas and it is not to punish or reinforce guilt feelings for the WS!
Best of Luck!
Peace be with you,
HH

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by suzychapstick:
<strong> It seems that I could process everything better if I understood how it all went down rather than imagining in my head. How they came to find each other, how in love they really were etc. Is this abnormal? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just a quick note Suzy, I was reluctant to to tell my W everything, I didn't see how it would help. My MC advised me to tell all IF she wanted the details. One of the reasons he gave me was that my W's imagination was likely worse than reality. That ended up being very true.

There are other reasons you should know if you desire to, but the above one is the best reason IMO.

Octobergirl replied </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that is detrimental and it leaves some BS's with mental movies that never go away fully.I would not want to have that in my brain while trying to recover. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I figured it had come up a thousand times. Did a search and didn't find quite what I was looking for. Thanks for replying!! I seem to have my own mental movies and I was thinking that if I knew the truth, at least they'd be true mental movies and not my own awful imagination. Who knows, it may not even be as bad as I imagine!


b0b pure* replied:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> on D-day I wanted to know everything. Squid couldn't or wouldn't tell me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did ask a ton of questions those first couple nights too and he did give me the answers I asked for, however I later found out that a lot of it was lies so that it "wouldn't hurt me as much!!"
# of times they slept together, he said he liked her a lot when later I found that he loved her etc..
Does Squid know that OM's GF told you the details?
Bob, I also wanted to throw in here how I love how Squid got her name. I was reading through some of your previous threads and that one really made me laugh!!

Hurrian Hoosier replied:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Many times though I see where this can be difficult for the WS – it can be like they don’t want to talk about it, they may just as soon sweep it under the rug, forget about & move on.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what I am so afraid of!! I think my WH would sweep it under the rug if I didn't want to talk about it. I see how uncomfortable it makes him when I bring up anything. This in turn makes me not say much, except at the MC.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My X gave me pleanty of those, almost in a punishing way. All of this depends upon the context of course. I got more details than I need about specifics & still have some haunting thoughts about some of those details! [Eek!]
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am so sorry for that!! Did she offer this information without you even asking?

Racer X replied:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just a quick note Suzy, I was reluctant to to tell my W everything, I didn't see how it would help. My MC advised me to tell all IF she wanted the details. One of the reasons he gave me was that my W's imagination was likely worse than reality. That ended up being very true.

There are other reasons you should know if you desire to, but the above one is the best reason IMO.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am so glad a WS replied!! thank you. My imagination may indeed be worse that it really was. I don't know at all. Or, on the other hand, the way it was may be worse than my imagination!! Either way, I need to know to sort through and get past it.
When my WH and I talked more in depth about it, mostly at first, he was still in the fog and so unsure of what he wanted. Also a lot of what he told me was still lies, as he thought it would hurt me less.

Suzy,I was not able to move forward until I knew ALL THE DETAILS. It is because they were details about my life, to which I had a RIGHT.

And in order to understand what has happened in my life, I obviously have to know all the details. Unfortunately for my H and I, I had to drag every single detail out in dribs and drabs over 12 months. Every little drib that I pulled out put us both back to Day 1 of recovery and impeded any trust I had gained.

But......I could not rest until I knew the whole truth. And since I have a RIGHT to the entire truth about my own life, I persisted until I KNEW I had it all.

It took several months of hell for him to grasp this truth, but once he understood that it wasn't going away, he started opening up. And once he did that, we moved forward in leaps and bounds. And not just because I had all the truth, but because he was WILLING to tell me ALL.

It made life so much easier on him that he kicked himself for not getting it all over at the beginning. It could have saved us a lot of grief.

I've gotta agree with MelodyLane although I'm not there yet.

I want to know everything. She doesn't want to tell me anything. I think the most important part isn't necessarily that you find out 100% but that they are willing to tell it to you. I have a million questions and it makes me distrust her more when I ask and she is evasive. I want her to offer up everything so that I can choose what I don't want to hear.

Most importantly, I want to know how she was feeling and what her thought process was through the whole thing from start to finish (here's hoping it really is over <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) I know I'll find out some gory details that will haunt me for a while in the process, but right now I don't want her to do the editing.

MelodyLane,
I think I will have to go back and read some of your posts. that exactly the kind of thing I am dealing with. Are you that way normally? I really do want to know a lot of it. I am so glad your H was willing to tell you. I hope my H will answer truthfully to my questions.

Hi Suzy....

After reading all the posts here, I see that everyone is different in their need to know.

To me the most important thing is the WILLINGNESS of WH to tell when asked.

I have been lied to so much, and everything WH has told me so far has only come with being caught in a lie. And, when discovered, he would try to cover with a lie. Or try to protect OW.

My imagination could go wild, but from what I have gathered, their time together was not much different from the day to day things that WH and I had.

Watching TV in the evening, and so on.

He has led me to believe that I am boring. That I have no passion. That I am a horrible person.

All of these things are...I now know... are not true.

But WH must have his justification!

The lies continue. He has never been WILLING to do anything.....especially be honest.

To me, the telling is all in the WILLINGNESS.

K

Suzy, I too needed to know.

What I had to do however, was have patience and ask questions that didn't come out LBing.

Basically the Harley philosophy is to be sure you're a safe place for your husband to be able to tell his story.

I haven't read your thread, so don't know if you've read the website or Harley books, but they give such a great foundation for what you're doing that you'll be in the right mindset to get the information you need.

I asked the same questions many many times...it was just so hard to internalize the information. The reason I had to know is that I didn't want "them" to have any exlcusive information. I had to be the one on the inside who knew EVERYTHING. I didn't want any precious sacred memories to be held in my husband's head. So I asked him everything.

Be prepared because it hurts to hear much of the details. I tried to ask only questions I felt emotionally able to handle at the time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> Suzy,I was not able to move forward until I knew ALL THE DETAILS. It is because they were details about my life, to which I had a RIGHT.

And in order to understand what has happened in my life, I obviously have to know all the details. Unfortunately for my H and I, I had to drag every single detail out in dribs and drabs over 12 months. Every little drib that I pulled out put us both back to Day 1 of recovery and impeded any trust I had gained.

But......I could not rest until I knew the whole truth. And since I have a RIGHT to the entire truth about my own life, I persisted until I KNEW I had it all.

It took several months of hell for him to grasp this truth, but once he understood that it wasn't going away, he started opening up. And once he did that, we moved forward in leaps and bounds. And not just because I had all the truth, but because he was WILLING to tell me ALL.

It made life so much easier on him that he kicked himself for not getting it all over at the beginning. It could have saved us a lot of grief. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MelodyLane,
Good for you! Very well done & I am very proud of you & your H!! He did good! Thanks for your share!
Suzy - Bringing these things up in MC sounds like a good idea to me! Keep going!
Peace,
HH

Suzy, my H didn't want any details and I'm sure it aided our recovery.

It's not "won't" it's "can't". It feels like sticking a knife into the person you have been closest to in the whole world, then when that's healed a bit, sticking it in again.

Bob, I love you to bits but every time you say "old man" I know you're talking about the OM but don't forget that Rob is 56 and it sorta offends me a bit.

Jen

thanks to all who replied! it really does mean a lot when people read your posts and offer their thoughts.

MelodyLane,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Suzy,I was not able to move forward until I knew ALL THE DETAILS. It is because they were details about my life, to which I had a RIGHT.

And in order to understand what has happened in my life, I obviously have to know all the details. Unfortunately for my H and I, I had to drag every single detail out in dribs and drabs over 12 months. Every little drib that I pulled out put us both back to Day 1 of recovery and impeded any trust I had gained.

But......I could not rest until I knew the whole truth. And since I have a RIGHT to the entire truth about my own life, I persisted until I KNEW I had it all.

It took several months of hell for him to grasp this truth, but once he understood that it wasn't going away, he started opening up. And once he did that, we moved forward in leaps and bounds. And not just because I had all the truth, but because he was WILLING to tell me ALL.

It made life so much easier on him that he kicked himself for not getting it all over at the beginning. It could have saved us a lot of grief.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, Melodylane I just had to copy your whole post because that IS truly how I feel. I hope so that my H will react that way.

down, Hi again! good to see you here again! Well, I wish none of us had to be here but it's so wonderful to have this support. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Most importantly, I want to know how she was feeling and what her thought process was through the whole thing from start to finish (here's hoping it really is over [Frown] ) I know I'll find out some gory details that will haunt me for a while in the process, but right now I don't want her to do the editing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This I agree with, as I think it is up to us as the BS to decide how much we want to know. My OW's BF only asked her if it was over and she said yes and that was the end of it. Of course I don't know how much I can believe OW, but in the past she has told me more truths than my WH.


k72172,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
To me the most important thing is the WILLINGNESS of WH to tell when asked.

I have been lied to so much, and everything WH has told me so far has only come with being caught in a lie. And, when discovered, he would try to cover with a lie. Or try to protect OW.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My issue too is that he's lied so much and only had to admit things when he was caught. OW is honest though. I've never even met her but she feels bad for all of this and told me that she always told my WH to tell the truth because I'd find out anyway.

Suz,
Thanks for your concerns. You know this goes back a while now & the intensity of those days is long gone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> My situation was bizarre & perhaps (hopefully!) was (is) different than most. I had busted her 20 years earlier -- then I bought into the idea of sweeping it under the rug & never mentioning it again. Well this time around I knew it was going to be different, so on D-day I was relentless in my pursuit to get her to talk. I wanted to her to side of it before she had a chance to make some stuff up. She was very protective at first – I even left the house a couple times to try & gather my thoughts --- Frankly she has a personality which is very self-centered & prideful (After numerous posts here, many people here thought she would fit the typical Narcissist profile, as am example).
My best friend & others were surprised about all the details she came out with – that night & in subsequent discussions. Some she volunteered. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I am still not sure of her motives & at this point it does not relly matter; but some details were diffintatly more than I needed to know. I got the point that she was wild! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Many thought it was her way of releasing guilt feelings -- My best friend thought she wanted to punish me in some ways; perhaps so I would not ask her more questions. It all depends upon the context of course. She was involved with two guys that she initially had just met – they were friends of each other & worked together at our place trimming trees. Today I honestly feel that she may have been with someone else on D-Day and others in one night stands kinds of things. Like I said, in my case, I had enough data to know that she had some real Sexual obsessive kinds of issues! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I did not need any more data to know that. She never admitted to any problems she may have had, BTW.

What was bad in my situation was that she never really showed any remorse or any real sense of helping me work though it. For example, in our first MC session the C asked me what I wanted & I spoke of learning what went wrong, so we could fix it. My X said she wanted to just forget about it & move on. The C asked her how she (the C) could get her to move closer to my position. My X never answered that question & never did a thing our MC asked for that matter & the MCing did not last. Honestly, I hate to rant on my X now, but in many ways she was wacko! I don’t believe we were meant to be anymore! But it is an interesting story – perhaps an example of how bad it could be!

Your situation is different! I would hold hope in the fact that it sounds like your H is open to the MC! And I want to reinforce the idea that it is important at this stage to have these discussions in a Safe Place.
Another important point I believe is very important is that for the BS to recover & for the WS to re-establish the trust, you need to focus on the policy of Radical openness & Honesty & a part of that is the past --- I think MelodyLane nailed it, on this.

With where I am today, I feel very blessed! I found a wonderful women whom treats me the utmost of respect & shows me her love in many different ways! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> In the final analysis you have to find your own way through this – don’t give up hope, in 99% of the cases I believe the marriage is worth fighting for – I tried & it did not work for me; but like I said, your situation is quite a bit different!
Peace be with you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
HH

Double post thing

<small>[ March 21, 2005, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</small>