My FWH and I have been to two MC sessions. FWH is very matter of fact when he talks about the A and will answer any questions I have. What bothers me is I don't hear any regret or remorse in his voice and since he has been home he has never apologized to me for what he has done. The MC thinks we are doing all the right things going forward to re-build our M and I agree, but I don't feel we have adequetly dealt with the past. I can't tell if the MC is just trying to get us to open up on our own or what but she doesn't discuss the A unless I bring it up. Has anyone else had this happen?

We haven't been in two weeks and won't go until next Wednesday so I have had a lot of time to think about what I want to discuss at the next session. I don't think FWH has any idea the effect his A had on me. I need to tell him what it was like for me, the horrible painful experience I went through. I don't want him to feel guilty, I really just need to get this out. What has been everyone's experience with this?

Also, I want to bring up some of the things he told me after D-day that he has never taken back. He blamed me for the A, now he has since said it was all his fault but never came out and said I was wrong to blame you. He said I was a mean bitter person (partially true). Also, the one thing that really sticks with me is he said OW was a good person and that is why he liked her. At the time I actually believed it! I really want to challenge him on this point but I don't know if it will do any good. I really don't think he sees OW in a bad light and I want him to. How could he think someone who has multiple A's is a good person? Someone who is a liar, cheat and a wh*re? She didn't care who she hurt to get what she wanted. She knew I was pregnant but that didn't stop her from seeing my H. Not my definition of a good person and at one time this was not my H's definition of a good person.

Another thing that bothers me is how it ended. FHW dumped her to come home to me. He tells me he told her he was coming home to work on his M and it was over. He says she is not persuing him. They work together and when he sees her he will only discuss work items. I don't understand how she could be alright with this and not pursuing him, she was the one to pursue him in the first place. She has an A with my H, leaves her H, divorces her H, then gets dumped by my H and she is alright with this? I am just having a hard time believing this.

I have never shared MB with my H so we never talked about the NC letter. At this point it would feel strange asking him to write one, as he has been home for almost 4 months. I really don't want to open up a line of communication that has been cut.

What do you think?

Kloe,

I read somewhere that a BS cannot "get over it" until the WS "gets" how badly they have hurt their spouse.

I understand fully what you are saying and I think bringing this us at MC is a very good idea.

I could not move on without a sincere appology either, and the feeling that WS really gets the devastation his affair has wrought.

It's very importnt Kloe that you keep after this as you need it for closure. I believe with all my heart that simply allowing it to be buried and moving on will poisen your marriage.

Keep pushing for what you need. It might take awhile, but with your MC's help it should be kept on the table until it is no longer an issue.

As someone who was cheated on throughout my pregnancy, I understand what you mean by him not thinking (atleast outloud so you can hear) that she was not a good person. I now have to work with my ex's ow (he is no longer with her) but I no longer hold it against her. She is in fact in a superior position to me so I can't really ruffle her feathers anyway. But she never told me she was sorry. Strange, considering I could have aborted given the stress I was under at that time because of her and him.

I do understand Kloe.

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Hey Kloe! I didn't see you hanging out over on page 2 until this morning! BTW, you are doing GREAT with Homer. Thanks for keeping up with her, as my life has become very busy (had to pick up a few more clients to fund my boys' orthodontia ~ yikes!).

OK, as for your current MC sitch. There is a very good reason that my H and I went to MC for 8 months. Every week, for 8 months. That is roughly 32 sessions. You are just on the very tip of the iceburg.

Am I saying you don't have valid points and expectations? Heck no! You are right on with what you want to hear, what you want to know, etc. BUT . . . you FWH is on a different level than you right now. Eventually, you two will level out, and be more on the same page. But for now, you aren't. On some issues, you will have to agree to disagree, because TIME is your greatest ally in this good fight you are fighting ~ for your M and your family.

First off, let me help you understand an important key WS/FWS thought process:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You said: Someone who is a liar, cheat and a wh*re? She didn't care who she hurt to get what she wanted. She knew I was pregnant but that didn't stop her from seeing my H. Not my definition of a good person and at one time this was not my H's definition of a good person. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You could substitute your FWH's name in each of those sentences, and they would all be true, as well. He did EACH of those things. EXCEPT, did the OW "owe" you anything? Did the OW make vows with you, promises to you? Did the OW have any commitment to you?

Could all your rage/anger/judgement simply be misplaced? In your head, but not your heart? Does that make sense?

First off, you could be feeling all those same things for your H, but your mind won't allow you to identify that ~ because you also LOVE your H. And this is OK. It is all part of the healing/recovery process. Eventually, all of your feelings will sort themselves out clearly, and you will be able to clear these things. Just be patient.

Second, when you say those things about the OW, your H realizes that they are about him, as well. Give him some time. There is still residual fog up in that brain of his. My FWH was the same way. Not until MONTHS had gone by, actively healing in MC, was he able to accept the full weight of what he had done. And you know what? It CRUSHED him. And it hurt me to see him take on responsibility for all of that hurt he purpetrated. Just as it hurt him to see me relive the feelings and see my pain.

One thing your FWH will need to learn to do is: see your pain. He doesn't have to apologize each time (he really should only apologize once, is what our MC taught us ~ you don't want an H who cannot forgive himself and move on. If he doesn't forgive himself, he will always consider himself a bad person and will not expect wise choices from himself, which means your M will not be recovered, and it will be vulnerable again ~ does that make sense?). He just needs to be able to see your pain.

And likewise, when he DOES take responsibility (because I believe he will, in his own time), it will hurt you to see him like that, and YOU will want to take away his pain, and tell him it is OK, that you are OK. But you can't do that each time. You will also need to be able to see his pain. And you two can just hold each other. And realize that NEITHER of you want to EVER be repsonsible for the other hurting like that again.

My H and I now cherish each other. If I tell H that he is hurting me, or my feelings, with his words or actions, he realizes that he has responsibility in that. And vise-versa. Our pre-A M was a lot different. It was more like, "Get over it, this is what I want to do." This is just one of the many ways your M can be better than ever.

So, give it more time. Also, DO bring up these issues in counseling. For a while, I would hold off on the OW stuff. Hopefully, you understand what I said earlier about that. Please really consider how you FEEL about OW. She did do crappy stuff, BUT, she had no obligation to YOU whatsoever. Your FWH did. HE dropped the ball, HE let you down, HE hurt you. And neither of you might be able to go there right now, and that is OK.

Think of your most pressing other issue, and bring it up first thing at MC. You might find you talk the whole hour on one thing, OR, you may find out that what you think the issue is, very quickly turns into something else. You just never know. Try and remember it is a marathon, not a sprint. A journey, not a destination. Not only are you at MC to clear all the A crap, which suprisingly doesn't take too long ~ you are also there to learn some important tools to use in your M when you DON'T go to MC ~ communication, boundaries, honesty, which will all build up into trust again, eventually.

Peace to you, Kloe. I can't wait to see you in about 6 weeks! How exciting!!! Us three will have to start making some serious plans soon. I will be available in Maryland all of Monday, May 2, and part of the day Tuesday, May 3 (H and I are taking MIL and the boys to the airport in the afternoon on Tuesday, then H and I are going down to Virginia for the rest of the week to see our old friends).

Spidey

Weaver, thank you for the kind words. I really do think my H is trying and doing what he is capable of right now. I think there is a lot he has buried down deep. As Spidey says it will be a very tough and painful realization for him when he comes to terms with what he did and the impact it had on others. We'll just keep plowing forward on recovery and deal with the past as we are able. Right now we are getting ready for the babies baptism on Saturday. Last count was we'll have 46 people over! I've got a lot of cooking to get done.

Spidey - I know what you are saying and I have throught about this. What he did was no better then what OW did. I can try to justify this by saying it wasn't her first A, she pursued him, she had 2 children when she did this (H didn't know I was pregnant when the A started), but they are just excuses. What he did was horrible and that innocence our relationship had is completely shattered and can never return. Although, in many, many ways our M is better then it ever was. We were not happy in the time right before the A and I often wonder how long we would have flounder on like that if this hadn't happened.

Lately my H and I have been driving into work together and as we sit in traffic I just look over at him and my mind starts to wonder. How could he do this? He left me for another woman. Am I pathetic to just take him back? What if it happens again? What if he is still talking to her? Other times, like when he and the baby are playing and smiling together, my heart is so full of love for my family. I love being a mother and can't wait to have more children. I can't wait to have a pregnancy that I can enjoy.

I know this is a process and someday will be better then others. I'm very anxious to go to MC next week and see how that goes.

As always, thank-you!

I've said this a few times here, but recovering from an A consists of:

(1) Ending contact between WS and OP
(2) Fixing the problems in the M that resulted in the A (which, more than likely, involve significant personal growth by WS) and
(3) Dealing with the hurt and trauma to the BS caused by the A.

While everyone knows that (1) has to be first the timing problem is with (2) and (3). Generally, WS is in such a mess that doing (3) is almost impossible until progress is made on (2).

All of that is irrelevant. At this point, you aren't even to (1) yet. WS and OW are still in contact. Essentially, then, you are in Plan A, not recovery. He has to get another job where he doesn't see OW.

If you get to NC, the rest of the recovery is "when" as opposed to "if".

And, I wouldn't even think about having another kid until there is NC.