This is my first post here, but I have been reading all the great advice here for the past month. Please bear with me, as I know this is long....

I am a BS. My wife and I have been together for 10 years (married for 2). You probably know the story...we were always thought of as the perfect couple by friends, etc. Also, I was always happy in our marriage, and it at least appeared that my wife was as well. I must also say that my wife was incredibly loving and supportive up until recently.

Well, my wife and I have a big move in August -- it is due to a big job promotion for me. She has known of this likely move for a long time (even before we were married) and was always supportive of it. I involved her in every step of the decision and we even celebrated when it was certain it would happen.

Last fall, she got a great new job and I was so happy for her. Her company even has branches in our new city, which would make a transfer very doable.

She was in job training for several months, including 3 weeks away in January. During those three weeks, she became very uninterested and distant on the phone with me. This was very out of character, as she was always the type who had to call me before she went to bed and other sweet things couples do. There were a couple of nights that she "forgot" to call me, and she didn't pick up her cell phone when I tried calling her. She gave me the excuses that she was "out drinking" with "a bunch" of her fellow trainees and fell asleep as soon as she got back to her room. I was very upset with her those nights and even asked her jokingly if she had a boyfriend there. She always laughed it off, but somehow, my instincts felt something was wrong. However, I gave her the benefit of the doubt. After all, she never made me suspicious before and she was my wife.

(continued)

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Squiggle ]</small>

The weekend before Valentine's Day, she tells me she doesn't know if she can move with me and that she might want a divorce. She says she loves her job opportunity here and says that she is not happy in our marriage. This really shocked me, and even more so when she goes on to say how we NEVER had any intimacy, how we are more like "partners" than "lovers", how we love each other, but are not "in love" with each other, etc. She wanted to move out and stay with a girlfriend of hers to "have time to think."

I was completely blindsided, and I beat myself up emotionally that weekend thinking everything was my fault. I had told her that she couldn't move out, as there would be no way for us to fix things that way. I also asked her several times whether there was another guy involved. I made her look straight into my eyes as she denied several times and acted like the question was ridiculous.

Well, I was tipped off by an anonymous person from her work that something was going on, and coupled with some serious espionage, I managed to discover countless details of the A that she had started with a guy in her training class. Within 3 days, I knew almost everything about the guy, had cell phone records of countless calls, their secret meetings during and after work, and of course I found his number in her cell phone hidden under a 2nd entry for one of her girlfriends.

Anyway, I confronted her about it on 2/16 and she did not deny it. She even admitted that she had sex with him. What I wasn't prepared for was that she said she was "in love" with him -- like a dagger through my heart. The first night, she agreed to end all contact with him so we could go to MC. But when she came home from work the next day, she said she could not end contact, because she "deserves to be happy" and needs time to "sort her feelings out". My first reaction to her was to tell her I was filing for D, but as much as I hate to say it, I backed down after thinking about it more and seeing some glimmers of hope from her.

(continued)

<small>[ March 21, 2005, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: Squiggle ]</small>

It's pretty much been a rollercoaster ride since then, as she openly saw him while living in our guest room. She had no problem going out with me to dinner one night and then with him the next. What really killed me was that even after we had nice nights together, she would say goodnight to me, go into her room, and then call him to say "goodnight". THAT SHOULD BE MY TERRITORY!!!

I eventually couldn't take any more of it and told her she had to move out if she was going to keep seeing him. She did, and acted like she was upset about it -- but then let the OM take her apartment shopping, resulting in her picking out an apartment just around the corner from his.

She moved out about 10 days ago. I have been in Plan A as best as I can, although I have gotten very angry with her a couple times when I caught her lying about not being with him.

The first night she moved out, she even called me from his apartment and pretended to be at her apartment. I really let her have it when I realized it (I know, a big LB), and of course she got mad at me for "bothering" her when I am supposed to be giving her "space". She is now back to lying about when she sees him -- she never mentions the OM to me, unless I directly ask her something.

She stays with him just about every night -- I know this for a fact, even though she doesn't know I am able to find out. I have decided to stop (for now) telling her every time I know she is lying to me, as it never helps our situation. Even though I know it's going to happen, it hurts me over and over again each time.

Last night, for the first time, I finally got to see her apartment with her. She had to stop over our house to pick up some things and we hung out for a little while. I then suggested we eat dinner at her place, and she agreed. That put me in a great mood. Before she opens the door to her place, though, she tells me "You can't be mad at me if you see something you don't like". As I dreaded what was to come next, she opens the door and there are a dozen pink roses in the center of her table (crappy little ones, though, not the nice long-stemmed red ones I get her). My heart sank ten-thousand feet in an instant. I didn't know how to react. I became very quiet, and I know she saw the effect it had on me. But I did manage to keep my cool and didn't mention them the whole time I was there. Looking around her apartment, there were several obvious signs of the OM -- his radio in the corner, TWO dirty wine glasses in the sink (wine drinking was always one of OUR things), etc.

Anyway, despite the above, we had a meaningful evening talking about nice semi-deep topics, although I made sure not to bring up the issue of "us". I had earlier written her a letter -- one that told her many of the things I loved about her and about our life together. It also included an apology for the things I should have done to make our marriage better. I didn't really include much about the A, as I've already told her a thousand times how I feel about it.

She'll be away for three days for work (I don't think the OM is going on this trip), and when saying goodbye last night, she cried some and promised me she would do "a lot of good thinking" on her trip. For the first time since two days after D-Day, she was the first to say "I love you". I gave her the letter and told her to read it on her trip.

In your continuation, include your ages and whether you have any children.

What kind of business do she and OM work in?

What letter did you give her? I think you will need to consider going to plan B soon, so start reading up on it and preparing to do it.

Must go. Look forward to learning more.

God Bless,

JL

She read the letter before going to the airport today and called me to thank me for it -- she sounded very sincere and caring. I feel like my efforts are starting to help and again I feel the twinge of hope.

But is this real hope? Or am I just setting myself up for another disappointment?

I have thought so deeply about all of this and I can't explain why my love for her has suppressed my anger to the point where I hardly even feel mad anymore. I do feel hurt -- often and without warning. The pain is unbearable, and I often wonder if I have passed the point of ever being able to recover from it.

As for exposure, the people to know are my parents, my coworkers, and a couple of my close friends. Other than my parents (who are very pro-marriage), everyone who started out pro-marriage now tell me that she doesn't deserve me and that I should divorce her and never look back.

While my brain often agrees with them, my heart cannot let go.

I am considering more exposure, but don't know how to go about it. She is pretty close with her father and says that she has talked to him about it, but I doubt she has told him the truth about the A. He's also been D twice, so if she spins it as her being unhappy and in a hopeless marriage, I suspect he is sympathetic to her wanting a D. The other potentials are her mother (who knows nothing of this and is usually kept at arms length by my WW) and two of her good friends here in town.

All of our parents live across the country, so I'm considering flying there for a day to speak to them personally. However, that would make telling her friends difficult in a short time frame. Also, I'm not sure what good it'll do, and of course I know she'll be pi$$ed at me for it, and I don't want to cross the line from exposure to humiliation.

The other thing is that I'm now seeing doubts in her and I'm not sure if I should give it a little more time before exposing. If she finally agrees to MC and NC, should I still expose? Looking back, I wish I had exposed to everyone on D-Day, but I was too emotional and distraught to think about anything useful. Now I'm left with so many questions on what to do next.

You know, I think you are well into a pretty good Plan A. You are doing your best to meet her needs and she seems to be responding. The only thing I would suggest is to stop questioning her about the OM. However, when you are presented with evidence of him, I would tell her how much it hurts you.

Other than that, I would suggest concentrating on being as attractive as you possibly can. Ask yourself at every turn if you would be attracted to you if the tables were turned. Because right now she is comparing you to him, I am sad to say. And one of the biggest mistakes that BS' make is not realizing this fact.

Another important tool you have at your disposal is exposure. Exposure is probably the most effective tool in hastening the end of the affair. And I will tell you why. This affair is one that is based on a fantasy; it thrives on secrecy. It was founded on deceit and secrecy and will not last. The odds of this affair becoming long term are astronmical.

Exposure removes the fantasy aspect by forcing the affairees to see how truly sleazy they look through the eyes of others when forced to explain the affair. It bursts the fantasy bubble and takes all the fun out the affair. The affairees begin to see it how it REALLY IS. Once this starts happening, the affair dies a slow death.

Good exposure targets are usually family [yours and hers], mutual close friends, bosses, OP's family and the OP's spouse. Those are the usual targets. I suggest making up a list and doing it all in one fell swoop. The reason for this is because it is much better to deal with one lovebuster than it is 20. Much better to get it over all at once so you can deal with the damage.

Lastly, I would RUN to the bookstore and get Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley. Pick up His Needs/Her Needs if you see it. SAA will be invaluable to you right now and will give you a good foundational understanding of what is happening here.

Some other background info...

My wife is 29
I am 32
The OM is 24 and unattached with no kids

They work in the banking industry -- same bank but different branches.

Also, we have no kids, but had just started trying to have them over the past 6 months.

There is no physical or substance abuse involved by either of us.

Squiggle

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Squiggle ]</small>

I was right. I think I DO have older t-shirts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Here's what I think you should do, after reading everything you can find on this site.

Expose to everyone who reasonably may have some influence in her life - not to try to talk her out of it, but to make her squirm. Remove the glamour of the excitement. Don't fly across the country to do this. Send her Dad a copy of the letter.

Go to Plan B after securing all your liquid assets.

Prepare to find a good woman.

WAT

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

It never ceases to amaze me how scripted these Wayward Spouses are. I mean it is really F-ing amazing.

Squiggle, hang in there. There is a near CERTAINTY that you will get another chance to win your Wayward Wifes love. Her affair will die. It is not an if, but a when.

Prayers for you.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LM,

You have no idea how scripted. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Over the years there have been threads with "quotes" from WS as told to their BS's, and it is as if they are reading from a widely disseminated play. It is truely amazing how similar these things are when you consider the vast array of circumstances.

That is why MB works at all, because there really is almost a blueprint for this stuff complete with sound, staging, acts, whatever. It can be rather scary. Harley realized this, hence "plans" when by rights NO plan should be affective if every case was truely unique as felt by the parties concerned.

It is amazing,but sadly it is true.

How are you doing tonight LM. Well I hope. I am sitting here waiting for accountants to get corp taxes finished so I can sign them before the stroke of midnight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Just Learning:
<strong> LM,

You have no idea how scripted. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Over the years there have been threads with "quotes" from WS as told to their BS's, and it is as if they are reading from a widely disseminated play. It is truely amazing how similar these things are when you consider the vast array of circumstances.

That is why MB works at all, because there really is almost a blueprint for this stuff complete with sound, staging, acts, whatever. It can be rather scary. Harley realized this, hence "plans" when by rights NO plan should be affective if every case was truely unique as felt by the parties concerned.

It is amazing,but sadly it is true.

How are you doing tonight LM. Well I hope. I am sitting here waiting for accountants to get corp taxes finished so I can sign them before the stroke of midnight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care,

JL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JL

Doing well in fact. Sipping a cup of decaf coffeee with a nice fire going in my home office. I was up last night (went to the hospital after midnight after a phone call from the family) seeing a personal patient of mine in the hospital and talking with the family about withdrawing care. Very Very sad situation <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . I essentially did not sleep last night after have been on call all weekend....I know but woe is me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> right? I was dragging A$$ all morning, so I took an "administrative" 1/2 day off and came home and crashed on the couch. Feeling good now.

I am really truly amazed at the "scripts" that go on here with WS. The things they say are really almost out of a book. I think that is why I love this message board so much. YOu can be in a devestating situation with an affair,,,,,BUT the blueprint of what may happen to you is all here. I strongly suggest for you Squiggle to read this baord. It is littered with strories that MIMIC yours word for word. PLease READ here..........and them READ some more. EVERY question, EVERY fear, EVERY worry.....IS ALL HERE FOR You. Someone has experienced it and LIVED to tell about it. You can almost predict with NEAR CERTAINTY what will happen if you choose a course of action in your saga (i.e. Delaying exposure, doing modified Plan A's and B's, etc..allowing yourslef to eb a doormat). We have all done those things, and our results are here for your review and for you to learn from.

Your WW is NO different than any of ours. Exposing her will make her mad (predictably), BUT RARELY if ever has that been the straw that meant DV. YOu are sacred, you are hurt, your ego is in the toilet and you feel hopeless. That is par for the course, and each and every one of us has been there. You are NOT in this alone. Please remember that.

YOur goal (while inlcuding getting a "new" marriage) should be to find PERSONAL RECOVERY from this.

Prayers for you.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for the responses! I am really loving this site.

As for Plan A, I accidentally started doing it within days of D-Day....

When this all started, I was very angry, hurt, and practically begged her for MC. Then, within a couple of days, it suddenly hit me -- I realized that my whole perspective on life -- especially my life -- had changed. Suddenly, I realized all of the things I wanted to do to make my life better. To make ME better. Not for my wife, but for myself. There was no more putting things off that I knew I wanted. There was no more wasting time in unproductive endeavors. I wanted every moment to count.

I want to live every day like it is my last.

I joined a gym. Got a personal trainer. Started working out every day. Cleaned the piles of paperwork all over my office. Remodeled the bathroom in 2 days. Hired a maid. Started to go to church regularly again. And even in the confusion of my marriage, my own personal self became more clear. I reprioritized my life almost overnight.

In a philosophical mood one night, I even told my WW of all of these changes, and I could tell she didn't know how to react. She even said she felt happy for me, but mad at me for waiting until now to feel this way.

Then, I found these message boards, and I realized that what I was doing was my own Plan A. When I first began reading, I was absolutely amazed at the similarities in so many of our stories.

The thought even crossed my mind that maybe my WW reads this message board to get her excuses for the A -- "needs time to think", not "in love", "partners" -- it really is like a script. If I ever hear her call him her "soulmate", I'm not sure if I'll cry about it or laugh at it.

But even with all of the similarities, I keep thinking there must be some uniqueness to each of our situations. That is the thing that makes me second guess my exposure plans. To my wife, it is very important how other people view her. I know this is exactly the drive behind why exposure works. But couldn't it also put her in a position where she thinks all is lost in our M (okay, I admit that it may be lost, anyway)? I mean, she is the type who may elect to "run and hide" from those who know, rather than make things right, despite others knowing.

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Squiggle ]</small>

S,

She may run and hide, but she cannot run from herself. Further, exposure tends to end the A, and that is the MOST significant thing you can do to save your marriage. It may NOT work, but if the A does NOT end before too much damage is done, the marriage will NOT survive.

So, you know she is going to be mad, but heck she is mad because you changed for the better as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Doesn't that beat all? This stuff doesn't make much sense does it? Well, that is why what she is thinking and doing is called the "fog". Normal logic does not prevail here. But, it will start to when a strong light is shined on her affair.

It won't be pretty but it is likely to be effective. So go for it. And keep working on yourself, that is very important because no matter how the marriage works out, you want to end up with less baggage, a better outlook on relationships/marriage, and a plan for your future.

You cannot convince her of anything, but you can show her your changes, and your new perspective. I am very big on the issue of perspective, because as it changes so do people.

Must go, but it is time for disclosure. Do it in expanding circles, and ask the people you disclose this to for their help in saving your marriage, because that is what you are doing it for, not revenge. Your W won't belive that for awhile, but make sure all of them KNOW you want to save your marriage.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Squiggle:
<strong>
But even with all of the similarities, I keep thinking there must be some uniqueness to each of our situations. That is the thing that makes me second guess my exposure plans. To my wife, it is very important how other people view her. I know this is exactly the drive behind why exposure works. But couldn't it also put her in a position where she thinks all is lost in our M (okay, I admit that it may be lost, anyway)? I mean, she is the type who may elect to "run and hide" from those who know, rather than make things right, despite others knowing. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">People are very fond of using the analogy of addiction here (for the record i don't totally agree). Think if it this way...........when you don't expose the affair, you enable her addiction. You are unknowingly giving her more alcohol to drink or more heroin to shoot.

CUT HER OFF. Your situation is not unique!

Squiggle


First of all I think it's great how you are holding up and found personal reward in what you are doing everyday. You should live life to it's fullest.

All of us here have been down your road and some of us have even made mistakes in executing our Plan A's and Plan B's

I have been hit with 2X4's so much that I look like one..


Remodeled the bathroom in 2 days. Hired a maid.


Wow thats just awesome, does she come with a cute skirt.... <---- Ok Bad joke but please, it's me did you expect a diffrent comment.


Your WW is living in her own part of Disney and all of the things she has said to you I have heard a million times.

And yet right now my Fww is upstairs in our bed sleeping with one of my shirts on, At least I think it's my shirt, I don't remember liking Clevland but she said it was mine so I believe her...<------ Again joking , that is about the shirt.

I have been up and down the road you are traveling and of right now my Fww and I have our own join thread.

You have some of the best looking after you, and me.... Well I'm the jester...

Welcome to the court.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Talked to my wife last night for ~1.5 hours. Managed to keep it silly and fun up until the last 15 minutes, when I invited her out for drinks tonight when she gets back from her trip (it's St. Patty's day, after all).

She then got a little upset and said that she feels too akward around me and doesn't like pretending there's nothing wrong when we're together. She even said that the other night at her apartment was a mistake, as it just upset us both.

I tried my best to tell her that I just didn't feel the need to dwell on our problems 24 hours a day and I just enjoyed being with her sometimes -- even despite our situation. I also carefully told her that I'm not saying we don't have to deal with our feelings and our problems, and that of course I see and hear things that hurt me at times (big understatement), but that I'd also like the opportunity to keep knowing my wife and to have fun together. I kept upbeat and spoke calmly throughout the conversation, which helped me, but I think frustrated her.

She wasn't all that receptive to my invitation to go out, so I guess she'll be spending another night with the OM. I probably shouldn't have pushed my luck, but I had to give it a shot.

It's looking like exposure is looming. As I suspected, the hope I had earlier in the week was mostly fabricated in my head.

Squiggle

Hi Squiggle.

I was reticent to post after the threadjack but I felt it was important you glean the purpose and technique of exposure.

Have you read WAT's or ARK^^s wonderful threads on exposure ?

WATs exposure 101 thread

My save dlink to ARK^^s doesn;t work. I'll find it through search and post it here.


They're wonderful.

Exposure is best done to the spouse of the OP. no argument - they NEED to know and their knowing is a way of getting an anti-affair ally in OMs life.

Parents/friends/workplace should only be used if the BS can't be contacted. They are no way as effective as the OP BS.

Also, consider very carefully in advance th epossible effect a personl may have on teh affair if exposed to.

WS friends for example may just consider it a bit of gossip they don't want to get involved in.

But exposure is a brilliant too for helping end the affair AND for empowering the BS. I know, I did it.

I know - bravest thing I ever did, and one of teh best <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

All blessings!

Bob/WAT - Thanks. That thread on telling the WS's family has me second guessing a little, though -- many of the same fears I have.

Maybe I should just talk to them and tell them in general terms that we are having marriage problems, but that I still dearly love their daughter and in no way want a divorce -- that I want to fight for our marriage, but that my wife is not sure she is willing.

Of course, I'll have to tell her father of the A, since he already knows my wife's side of the story (not "in love", loss of intimacy, etc.).

Here mom/stepfather, though, don't know a thing, so maybe this will just clue them in that there are problems and they'll offer support to my WW in working things out.

At least in the case of D, it'll leave them with the knowledge that I tried the best I could to save our marriage. If left to my WW, they will probably just blame me for everything and never even realize that the A happened.

Tough decisions. Very tough decisions.

Squiggle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Squiggle:
<strong>That thread on telling the WS's family has me second guessing a little, though -- many of the same fears I have.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And those fears are rational. Normal.

But you're dealing with a marriage crisis. Some tough decisions cannot be thought of as discretionary if you want to save your marriage.

Endemic bad behavior has a contaminating effect on the whole family. Trust dies. Doubt flourishes. Lies grow strong legs.

Kill the beast.

WAT