Georgia, I know I sound tough but some days are better than others so others days I sound like a wimp! But everyone is used to that on MB <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think that you and I are sort of in similar situations, although are WSs may be different. I am feeling more detached and plan to remain in plan B for at least 1 year (according to Dr. Harley 2 years). But if WH should start making things financially difficult for me I would probably have to get legal help and that is the same as divorce for me. Which wouldn´t mean an emotional divorce in y case either. I would just be in plan B to protect myself and my kids for a year. If after that I decide I really want the divorce, it will already be done. If Wh wants to come back, we´d still be emotionally married and we could eventually be legally married again. That´s the way I see it. For me the "unmarried state" is a personal decision you make and supposedly communicate to your spouse.

cc -

I can assure you, I too feel like a wimp very frequently. It amazes me that some folks post here telling me how good I'm doing, when in actuality I sometimes question my own sanity. I see homeless folks when I'm driving to work and I question if I'm going to end up among their ranks before this whole thing is over with. So....if it weren't for the fact that we are GODDESSES and WARRIORS, I might think we should start a WIMPS clubs. But, the 2 must be mutually exclusive.

I think in my case the divorce issue is not so much for financial protection as it is for mental / emotional protection. I think that WW could drive me to an insane assylum (where I could teach pottery, BTW), if I stay married to her, support her lifestyle and pay for our home, while she continues with OM who she would likely have move in with her if all continued as is right now.

I guess there is some measure of financial protection involved, but I think it's just time that I have to say "enough is enough".

Georgia

Quick posting here! I always get logged off!

Great exposure to the friend. That's a point in your favor.

Do you buy the significance of culture in regards to your H's A? Is Dr. Harley stereotyping you on this? Just wondering since your sitch sounds so much like mine.

You really think that you would be communicate angrily if you talked to your H? How about in a GODDESS-like fashion? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Calling DDs while on the trip? A great sign. He's trying to keep his handle on reality. OW probably hates those contacts. Contacts with them is sort of like having contact with you. The FOW in my case started making demands to get pregnant towards the end there. I had his children and she didn't. YUK! H said that she would do crying scenes over how she wished she could have his children. Little did she know that this was putting the nails in her coffin; the last thing he wanted was more children..... He became scared that she would try to trick him into this. Also that would be her avenue to get his money....Of course, she was telling him that she was not in the R for money. What a liar!!

Also, great on doing the crafts. Keep trying until you find some avenue that works for you....

You said about exposure:


What difference does it make that people do not know her? I agree with Georgia that you will feel liberated yourself in letting people know about your situation. You don't even have to call her name. Say, "My husband left me to be with another woman". If your WH is not influenced by exposure, why is he trying to keep his A a secret? I think he does not want it exposed and for that reason go ahead and expose. I repeat, my FWH got a great sense of relief over "being normal again". He used to constantly express his relief over this. Your WH does not want to continue to live at such a high level of secrecy. I agree with Dr. Harley that A will die a natural death. The question is whether you will still be around for him. I'm trying to encourage you to hang in there and wait.

You said:



Yep, "what a difference a day makes"....

The main goal: Have fun TODAY no matter what......

Mimi, pleaseyou keep repeating that stuff . You are absolutely right. About exposure I do as Georgia does, I don´t deny what is happening, ever. But you are wrong in one thing: he did not leave me for another woman, I asked him to leave because he was with another woman. That´s what I told a friend of mine yesterday when she called to say she had heard the good and the bad news. So I asked her what she had heard because I wanted to ake sure she had the right versions and when she said that WH had left I told her that I had asked him to leave. She also had my position wrong at the new job, but that´s less important.

About Dr. Harley´s idea that things are different down here I don´t know. Either he picked something up from my messages or he has a preconceived idea of the way latins are. It is obvious that the "macho " culture is alive and well around here, but that was not our personal philosophy. Infidelity is rampant among physicians as well so I have those 2 risk factors. But in my personal case WH and I had discussed many times how morally degrading affairs were, he would tell me stories he heard from "men friends" about their lovers etc and he always acted as if he did not agree and was embarassed by the fact that they were so stupid as to be unfaithful, not like it was an enviable thing. Neither of us has calls or things like that, so we're not the typical MDs either.
Of course, it could be the MLC, or WH´s personality that Dr. Harley has detected as a bad sign. Or maybe it's just his intuition. who knows.
Fortunately, it doesn´t change what I (and he) believe I must do: plan B for at least a year.

I really have no idea how I would react if I came face to face with WH, but I´ll try to speak the leat possible.

About pregnancy, I´m sure that is in OW´s mind. Little does she know that WH does not like babies and I don´t think he wants children at this stage and so far he doesn´t even admit OW´s existance so I don´t think he´s planning a futur with her. But I don´t think WH even knows that himself. That´s what his actions have shown so far.

As you can see I have had a few free minutes today, but I have to get back to work. It´s raining, maybe that´s why everything is a little calmer today.

GODDESS CC;

Have your toga draped and sunglasses ready for when your WH contacts you!! Better yet, listen carefully and don't respond. Say something like, "I'll get back with you on that, I'm busy soaking in the Jacuzzi" (or whatever a GODDESS such as yourself may be doing). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

BTW, why can't you ask your MIL to inform him about the class? Doesn't she want to protect her granddaughter from this?

You seem to know but don't want to admit to yourself that this A will eventually end. He is wanting to have his fun as long as possible. When it feels bad enough to him and he figures out a way to get away from her, he will end it. He may need your help. We'll see.

Mimi, I'm nearly sure the A will end. I don't even believe WH is having much fun at all. He never was the kind to "have fun" anyway but he hasn't made ANY effort at all to spend time with her. On the contrary, they worked straight thru the summer holidays without taking any holidays. He did NOT invite her to live with him in the beginning. So I don't think he is enjoying this very much. I think she's calling the shots and he justs goes along with it, which doesn't make him blameless at all, of course.
When they say that the person who has an affair immediately loses half their brain cells they are absolutely right. Nobody has ever said they find WH happy, or even looking good. They say she shouts at him and treats him horribly in front of others. Why should he take this abuse? I guess he likes it. Wonder if that is an emotional need of his I never filled? I'm afraid I am not interested in learning how to.

I know it will end, but I can't imagine what I will feel then for WH. We'll see.
And he most probably willneed some help to get rid of her...

Well things have taken a turn for the worse. It turns out that BIL must have told WH what I thought about OW going to school with DD. WH was on a trip (most probably with OW), scheduled to arrive back home on friday. From USA he set up a dinner date with dds for friday night and incredibly enough kept it. They came home late, I was already asleep. Saturday he called dds on their phones, and knew we had gone to a rugby match that afternoon, and had found out the result and all. Sunday he visited with 1 dd and then with the other who was at a rock concert she helped organized. Then he went to visit BIL. Saturday evening I finally told dd of the possibility she might meet OW or OW´s friend at school since I have not had an answer from BIL.
Well today WH called and went to pick dd up from school and mentioned that OW´s friend had sat next to her in class one day but dd doesn´t know her. So dd asked if OW was also attending and he said yes. Now dd is furious, says she will call her all sorts of things, wonders what her dad is thinking and has told me she never wants him to come back.
He doesn´t deserve it.

It is very unfortunate that it has come to this. I really don´t know how to help her. She´s obviously stronger than I am.

are you guys sure this is all forgivable?

Unfortunate but this is typical WS behavior.

I will get back with you tomorrow morning my time.

You of all people know that worse things happened to me.

It is the addiction.

Yes. It is forgivable.

I know Mimi, you forgave even worse things. Thanks for answering. I´m off to work and will try to check later.

CC:

I'm so sorry you have to go through this. I certainly empathize as you well know with your pain.

Facing the reality of this awful situation, this was going to happen eventually. Your daughters were eventually going to be touched by all of this. What I find difficult to understand is why are the OW and her GF going after your daughters? What do you think? The good part of this is that this is certainly a LB. She is probably demanding for him to make more of a commitment to her, wanting to be part of his world with your DDs. Maybe she is trying to push this in some way. As predicted, it has backfired on her. I don't think your WH is happy with this affect on his daughter. THIS IS EXPOSURE! The A will no longer be enabled by you. He gets that message.

In his foggy thinking, he was hoping that it would all MAGICALLY work out- your daughter would accept her in the class, they would like each other, etc. Maybe the OW was even trying to convince him. Who knows? However, this exposure is a good thing in regards to bringing an end to the A.

Can you forgive him? I think YES if he shows remorse, repentance, whatever... You know what I mean. When my FWH got completely out of the fog, he was himself again, not this type of crazed person that you are seeing in your WH. My FWH was so EVIDENTLY ASHAMED and still is about the things that he did during the A. Your WH is sick right now. Of course, this is no excuse for what he is doing to you and his children. However, I am a person that believes in forgiveness if the guilty party is repentant. This will be a valuable lesson for your children if they can forgive their Dad or if they choose to forgive their Dad. It's between them and him.

You see this as bad. However, this is a standard part of the script unfortunately. I think there are problems brewing between your H and the OW.

The question will be will YOU WANT HIM back after all of this? Shelter yourself from the storm. Get strong and stay grounded. Be there for your daughters. They will need you. Your WH may need you, too.

What about your inlaws? Do they have any influence over him?

Mimi, let me try to answer some questions you ask as best I can:
1. Why is the OW doig this? I believe it must be BECAUSE she is a predator kind of OW. Of course WE think it is stupid of her to provoke this possible meeting with DD, but OWs of this kind probably think they have solved their lives and now are a step away from becoming Society Women. Her "friend" probably puts these ideas into her head too.
She obviously has no shame of what she is doing. Maybe she´s trying to somehow "come out of the dark", but WH doesn´t seem to want to come along with her. Yes, she´s doing her own exposure of herself now. Who knows, I can´t read that kind of mind, too foreign for me.
I know DD said she would not tolerate her, so she´s in for a nice surprise. I warned her about OW´s friend but nothing happened today except that WH called her a whole bunch of times. He also called another DD a whole lot of times. He´s calling them very frequently and even being with them much more than when he lived here, so something is changing. Don´t want to get my hopes up yet.
2. MIL still can´t believe it and pretends that she doesn´t know in the sense that she doesn´t ask questions and tries not to know. I sometimes comment about things but I´ve decided it´s not worth it so I´m just going to let her pretend. She´s horrified by OW.
3. BIL probably agrees. I´ve given up on him.
4. I am so busy with the new job, I´m finally able to detach quite a bit. I don´t get as upset as before and I´ve been thinking that I may even be getting to the point of really letting go. I think that maybe Jesus has something better for me and a purpose for me to go thru all this. But I also know for sure that I can´t make any decisions at this moment. Until I finally face WH I won´t really know whether I am able to forgive him or not. Of course he has to feel remorse and shame etc. If I didn´t believe he at least has some feeling left for me apart from respect which he has shown he feels for me I wouldn´t be able to explain why he hasn´t EVER mentioned divorce. It´s the logical solution for logical people. And some waywards.

Anyway I´m holding up much better than I thought. Time does help things get better, but this is far from painless and still very dangerous for all of us. At least financially.
I worked very hard to get to where we are now and it does make me angry that, considering WH only did what he would have done whether he had a family or not(no sacrifices at all) whereas I did give up my first career because of the girls and barely managed the second one, with a lot of sacrifice, he should spend it all on himself and OW. But if he persists, he won´t have anything left. His job is already suffering and although he will still be excellent at what he does, she won´t let him work.
But that´s his choice.

I do feel that in MY particular case there are things that complicate that you do not get in USA. For one, we cannot go work anywhere else.
The equivalent of the CDC. BTW, friday I am out of the city for work.
So you see, there is nowhere to go, no way to "start anew", we will always have to see the same people, live in the same city... That makes adultery worse. Here, you will never escape it. That´s why exposure is so frightening. There will always be somebody who knows from a cousin, a friend or a coworker. That´s WH´s problem but it could also be a reason for him to never come back.
Anyway, I´ve done a great plan B, I´ve not talked or seen him and I am getting on with my life. And God has given me this new job, which is fun, exciting, fulfilling and promises a lot of travel. So, I have to make the best of the situation, as usual.

I really hope you are right Mimi. And hopefully everything might turn out as you predict. I wish it to, but all this situation is soooooo un-natural for me and the girls and my family and even my MIL, that we are really on a rollercoaster ride.

I know Dr. Harley is pessimistic because we´re latins and that includes macho culture etc. But the point is that WH and I were not your typical latins. We have both travelled, we know how the rest of the world thinks, maybe I more than him. But we were the couple everyone thought would last forever. There is not one person in the family who has shown any support for WH. Or any friends.

Anyway. it is depressing but thak God I´m becoming too busy to care. That´s good for me but not too good if we are expecting to recover. But I´ll cross that bridge when I get there. I still hope you are right.

Maybe my spy will have some news for me tonight. I won´t call, but if she does, I´ll let you know.

Thanks for writing to me. I went to jewellry class today. It was nice.
I guess Georgia is off on his trip. Hope he has fun, he needs it.

CC:

You said:


You mentioned JESUS. Let me be honest and tell you that according to my belief HE wants you to be with your H. GOD brought you together and will bring you back together if you have faith in HIM and that is HIS will. "Thy will be done". Satan, in the form of the OW, evil forces or whatever, does not like marriage. JESUS does not believe in divorce and hates infidelity. Infidels are said to burn in hell unless they repent. Enougn of my religious beliefs but I needed to inform you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Of course, something is going on with your H. OW is LBing and being her evil self now because she thinks that she has him. She does not know about MB and the AFFAIR BUSTING caused by exposure and LBing...

I feel honored to know you. You are such an intelligent, important, gutsy woman! What a loss for your WH! I'm not sure why you say exposure is a reason for him not to come back. It seems the opposite given your situation. He will always have to face others in shame. I wouldn't think that he would want to live his life that way.

He has not mentioned divorce because he does not plan on divorcing you! He is waiting for his fling to MAGICALLY end somehow. I think it was his hope to stay at home while he continued with her. Whatever, he is not thinking logically about this! He is addicted as you seem to understand and he will continue to self-destruct unless he figures out a way to get away from her.

The rollercoaster ride you describe is and has been the same for all of us here, so unnatural and unexpected. That's why others who have not been touched by this fail to understand.
Hang on tight. Your ride maybe just beginning.

Mimi, I believe WH was hoping to stay here and continue his affair! That´s for sure. I did have to ask him to leave, he NEVER even suggested leaving. And he is probably hoping that magically the whole A will someday disappear! but that it obviously a WH reasoning.
WH has always been very very stubborn so it´s sure to take him a long time to give up insisting on the A. On te other hand I´m afraid he´s too proud to admit his mistake and will continue the A even knowing he has no futur with her. You see he still pretends nothing is going on and in the futur could just pretend that I kicked him out and he had just made "one mistake" as he calls it
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Anyway we understand waywards thinking but their actual reactions are not always that predictable.

I know Jesus hates divorce and I´m sure he meant me to be married to WH, and I also DO NOT regret having married him and stayed with him all these years in spite of how difficult they may have been. But I did go to talk to a priest and he told me I had done the right thing by having WH leave and that the church (catholic) does not condemn women in my situation. So I felt better after that.

I am certainly trying to do everything I can to bring WH back. The priest and my friends have told me that I shouldn´t rely on my "internet buddies" but you guys are the only ones who understand and I trust you more than I do them. I believe that this is my best chance to fight for my marriage.

Did I tell you that Dr. Willard Harley sent me Love busters? he must get the impression that I am a difficult person, or have a bad character. So far from the truth.... but of course he can´t tell from a distance and only a few words in an e mail. But it really made me think. I try to find proof of what went wrong from what others have said. What I´ve reasoned so far is that I did the best I could, but WH is a very difficult kind of person and I have been the best possible influence on him. He is professionally quite successful in spite of not letting me help him in that area and socially acceptable until now, thanks to my efforts. I´m terrified he´ll just become one of those excentric a little mad guys without the reality check we, his family, provide for him. I know he doesn´t sound like a great guy but he has made me happy, and I feel I belong with him, even now.
As you may have been able to tell, I am not a dependent sort of person. It is my choice to be with him. But I cannot control what he does, and I will not tolerate the A, his disrespect for the family or any of his selfishness in the futur, because that tolerance is part of what got us into this. I will not live with an infidel.
I know you understand. I will be patient. I do not take things lightly.
When people asked me if I belonged to this or that I would always say that I didn´t belong to any club, or political party or any other organiation, that i had married once and that I only "belonged" to my husband. Specially these last few years when my role as "mom" was less and less important.

Anyway, I´m still hanging on, trusting MB. I´m nearing the 4 month plan B date. But things are getting better. I´m not that anxious anymore.

I edited the post before last because I had included info that would easily identify me.

CC:

Your WH and your situation continues to sound so much like mine!

You said:





Almost these same words have come out of my mouth many times. Your WH also has a strong attachment to you, CC. That's how I'm sure that right about not he is missing you terribly. I think that's causing him to want to spend more time with your daughters. That is his only connection to you. The OW must sense this. She can't go after you so she is going after them. However, like you said, who can even guess what she may be thinking and doing? I do think that you need to be on the lookout to protect your daughter from her or to protect her from your daughter.

You also said:



You're speaking of your WH as being prideful like my H is. But that also means that he is proud that he has you. I think your new job will get his attention. Yes, typical WS behavior to try to rewrite history and try to blame everything on you. However, exposure, making the A real, taking away the fantasy aspect of it will make this increasingly difficult. Seems like OW is helping you really as bad as it seems. The more she comes out in the open, the worse it will be for them. He may be proud but he is not proud of this A and he is not proud of her!

I´m sure he´s not proud of OW. Afterall she is nothing much. She could have been had she taken the honest road. She seems capable but she abandones her studies a few years ago in order to be with WH as much as possible. In hindsight I see that. So now she is 32 and she is not much. Just a 24hr secretary as I call her. Actually WH once told me that OW´s friend who is in all this, was actually better prepared than OW. She speaks english! So yes, he is ashamed of her and that is part of the reason why he denies her existance.

DD seems pretty capable of dealing with OW if she meets her. Maybe OW is having second thoughts about going to class...

You know Mimi, one of the most brilliant aspects of MB plans is the plan B letter. The fact that you spell out the requirement of ending the affair on paper which the WS gets, is absolutely brilliant. Any doubt the WS might have all he/she has to do is re read the letter. I wrote it by hand for him, although I copied it from a draft I had made on my laptop. I re read it many times. Then my computer crashed and I didn´t have a copy! Thank God I was able to save the info on the disk and as soon as I got the cd I went to my brothers (my printer was broken too) and printed a copy of PBL which I keep in my journal. So PBL is as important to me as I hope it is to him. It´s the link between us.

Have to go to work now

CC:

You said:



I think this is why EXPOSURE of the A is so important!

Also:



LOL! Looks like you have a GODDESS-IN-TRAINING! I have YOUNG WARRIORS with testoterone. I had to make sure my elder son didn't learn who the OW was. She definitely would have been assaulted and he would be in jail! My younger son knows who she is and where she lives but fortunately didn't come face to face with her. My OW acts as if she is scared of them and me. Some say she is a COWARD. I have never understood that description. Her actions have seemed bold to me. Of course, like you, I have lots of standing in the community and she might not want to face me. Oh Well....

Yep! The PBL is key. My FWH kept his and quoted from it as he was finding his way home. Interesting. I also wrote mine out. I think that made it more meaningful and significant...

I'm jealous.

You spoke to Georgia and not to me!

How are you?

Well this afternoon I had a chance to insist on exposing a little more to one of WH´s employees, but incredible as it may sound they all have difficulty with the subject because WH and OW pretend nothing is going on, so there is no chance for them to show what they think. Anyway, I keep insisting.
Later the spy called and says that things are apparently not very good between WH and OW today. Neither has admitted they were away together.

WH is taking dds to dinner tonight.

So things are back to the usual, but maybe as you think Mimi, this is the beginning of the end. Just a gut feeling. I may be wrong though and it will take a lot more time.