t&l, one of these days I'll go visit you, even underwater!

Update for any who may be interested.

Thanks. I missed a lot before my trip because of work deadlines. Glad I came back and found this.



I’m not over WH in the sense that I think of him every second my mind isn’t occupied in something else, but I don’t miss WH, I sometimes miss my H (I’m not one for missing much) but I do miss my marriage.

I suspect you miss closeness, and togetherness. Sharing, doing things for someone you love. I guess that is much of what marriage is.

Your feelings are important. You are important. Do you know that?

I just wish I could do something to lessen the pain for dds. But how can I explain those weird behaviours, the fact that he went on holidays several times and never took them or spent time with them (because he’s with OW), he didn’t even bother to come to their birthday etc.

The truth is the truth. You can't change this. Mothers hate to see children in pain............. Sometimes there is nothing we can do, except help them through it. Your strength and example will help them the most.

It’s hard to have to just watch.
I try to be consistent, always there for them.

That's what I mean. They might not acknowledge what you do for them, but they would be lost without it. Just keep doing it.

I stay home a lot because it’s what I like to do, I’ve always liked to stay home. So that’s nothing new.

I did this once for someone else, but I'll do it for you too. Home is where my heart is also.

Home

IT takes a heap o' livin' in a house t' make it home,
A heap o' sun an' shadder, an' ye sometimes have t' roam
Afore ye really 'preciate the things ye lef' behind,
An' hunger fer 'em somehow, with 'em allus on yer mind.
It don't make any differunce how rich ye get t' be,
How much yer chairs an' tables cost, how great yer luxury;
It ain't home t' ye, though it be the palace of a king,
Until somehow yer soul is sort o' wrapped round everything.

Home ain't a place that gold can buy or get up in a minute;
Afore it's home there's got t' be a heap o' livin' in it;
Within the walls there's got t' be some babies born, and then
Right there ye've got t' bring 'em up t' women good, an' men;
And gradjerly as time goes on, ye find ye wouldn't part
With anything they ever used -- they've grown into yer heart:
The old high chairs, the playthings, too, the little shoes they wore
Ye hoard; an' if ye could ye'd keep the thumb-marks on the door.

Ye've got t' weep t' make it home, ye've got t' sit an' sigh
An' watch beside a loved one's bed, an' know that Death is nigh;
An' in the stillness o' the night t' see Death's angel come,
An' close the eyes o' her that smiled, an' leave her sweet voice dumb.
Fer these are scenes that grip the heart, an'when yer tears are dried,
Ye find the home is dearer than it was, an' sanctified;
An' tuggin' at ye always are the pleasant memories
O' her that was an' is no more -- ye can't escape from these.

Ye've got t' sing an' dance fer years, ye've got t' romp an' play,
An' learn t' love the things ye have by usin' 'em each day;
Even the roses 'round the porch must blossom year by year
Afore they 'come a part o' ye, suggestin' someone dear
Who used t' love 'em long ago, an' trained 'em jes t' run
The way they do, so's they would get the early mornin' sun;
Ye've got t' love each brick an' stone from cellar up t' dome:
It takes a heap o' livin' in a house t' make it home.

Edgar A. Guest


I have an idea of the kind of marriage I want in the future, whether it is with WH or someone else. And I don’t want anything less than that.

And you shouldn't accept anything less than that either. If he doesn't come back willing to be what he should be, then why WOULD you want him?

So what I’m trying to find out now is why I married him, and why I was willing to continue to be married to him for the rest of my life. There is no rational explanation, but I’m working on it.

It warmed my heart to read this, and know you are searching for answers. One can progress when one is willing to find answers.


It’s funny. I remember reading reasons why it’s best to try to recover your marriage instead of getting a divorce when there is infidelity during the first few weeks of studying this subject after dday. I didn’t keep or copy those reasons, but they convinced me at the time.

Months later, I e mailed Dr. Harley and asked him. Surprisingly he said he couldn’t give me any reasons why it was better. He just told me to hold on for 2 years, by that time I would be divorced or recovered.

For you it's better because you need to know you did all you could. If you did not do all you could, it would eat at you forever. I think you understood this.


I think I’ve learned a lot. I’m learning to stand up for myself and do what I want to do and what I think is right. I’m not avoiding conflict as much.

I have seen you change. Perhaps all of us have a lot to learn even now, but you have come far in your journey. I hope you can see what we see. Sometimes people are proud, and can't see their faults. Sometimes they are humble, and can't see their strengths. I hope you can see your strengths - I don't think pride is a problem for you.

I have great dreams and I even remember them!

Perhaps it's time to think more of them, and to tell us about them. Don't be shy, we do care. One should never forget their dreams.

I read this somewhere many years ago, and have never forgotten it.

"Happy are those that dream dreams,
and are willing to pay the price to make them come true."

May your best dreams come true.

SS

Hi SS!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good to have you back! I hope you had a nice trip.

I'm so busy lately I haven't been able to keep up with t&l's thread, but shhhhh don't tell her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for your comments. I feel comforted. and I love the poem. I realize I'm a person who always makes a home: whether at home, the summer house or the office. And I tend to like being wherever my "home is"...

Since the last post things have changed a lot. Better. You see it was my 20th wedding anniversary on the 14th. Just like last year I went to church but this year I've been attending a different church with a great priest and I've been thinking his teachings, because I'd never heard things like that before. I had talked to him a year ago probably a few weeks after starting plan B and he had told me that God didn't want me to suffer and that I did very good in separating.
Anyway I deicded to talk to him again. He was very comforting but surprisingly for the first time in 3 months I started crying again and feeling really desperate and anxious. This lasted about 3 days but then for some reason I can't exxplain I finally got it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I now know that I can be happy, actually it's more like being full of joy! and that's how it's been since then. I know what kind of life I want and deserve and I do know I deserve it and can have it if I want it. So now I'm sure it all depends on me I am joyful. Anyway, not easy to explain, but I guess it's the good kind of recovery. Thanks to MB and all the wonderful people here.

As I said on FGG's thread, my marriage now seems to me to be like childhood. Something that happened but ended, but so long ago...

I guess I now understand why it is actually the BS who really determines the outcome because to tell you the truth, I feel I don't want to bother with all the hard work recovery would mean. But I will keep my commitment, wait the 2 years and if before that my H should come back but willing to try for a great marriage I would give him a chance. But he has to change a lot.

I will no longer tolerate lies, dishonesty, family always last on his list of priorities, no communication etc.

So far he's being financially responsible. But if that changes I really would prefer a divorce.

Anyway have to go now. Thank you for coming back! It's always great to see you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It's always good to see you too. I admire your courage.

SS

It's funnyyou should say that SS. I consider myself a coward and proclaim myself as such.

I'm frightened of going ut at night, I'm a conflict avoider but thanks to MB I'm learning how to overcome that gingerly, I'm terrified of violence!

Anyway,this weekend I have to do something which encompasses all my fears: I have to assess my employees. And give them their evaluations.

Now this may not seem extraordinary for you, but here it is not a "usual" thing and if there are assessments thay are always fake.

This will be my first time with these people I have been working with for a year. But to make matters a little more complicated they recently went to the authorities and complained that I "mistreated" or abused them. This is not true but I guess they couldn't find anything else serious enough to complain about. So it is a complicated situation for those who have to decide what to do.

It's simple for me (now that I'm on the way to being an MB success PERSON and that I have dedicated a lot of the time I have in plan B to reacquainting myself with Christ). I will do the best I can to be truthful and objective.

I'm OK with that part. I just don't know what the consequences may be.

BTW SS, I've been wanting to ask you for a while now, whta does your wife think of your participating so much in MB? You don't have to answer obviously, but I am curious.

Awwhh CC, you are a courageous woman. More than that you now have the opportunity to apply MB principals to your employees. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I did the same. I planned A all my employees. One precidence I set early on was to tell each one personally that I don't like to give bad reviews so don't give me that reason. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I must commend my former employees (company was later sold), my staff made my work challenging in some ways but each of them gave their best. I must say that their attitude help us as a group weather any stitz that came against us and believe me, lots of [censored] came our way. LOL!!! I later plan B'd some co-workers who were just sooo stupid..... like the highly compensated project manager who tried to make me do his work for him because he said his only assignment was to carry a box from his office to mine. I not only reverse babbled to him but I exposed his little plot to his superior and I loved it. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So use what you know and move forward with the dignity and grace that is within you.

U can do it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

BTW, good job on helping tears. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Aloha,
L.

Tnaks Orchid. It's what I plan to do. But I'm nervous.

Don't be nervous. You have your wits and MB skills about you. Knock 'em dead. LOL!!!

L.

I'll let you know how it turns out. On one hand I'm a bit nervous, but on the other since I WILL BE using MB principles, I am also having FUN.

It willprobably be a while before I get definite results of the whole thing.

SS,
I love the poem. I know that my WH has to miss that. He continues to have C with OW - unsure if he is living there as I am in NC for only a week. I can't imagine this going on for a year without closure but I wouldn't have thought I would consider R with a man who cheated. We just don't know what we will do until faced with the actual situation.

Thanks for the beautiful poem.

Nkay

BTW SS, I've been wanting to ask you for a while now, whta does your wife think of your participating so much in MB? You don't have to answer obviously, but I am curious.

She doesn't know. I've kept it hidden from her all these years.

OK, OK, I was kidding.

I found MB by accident doing a web search. This site came up in the search, and I was interrested, so I begain to read.
It only took a little bit of reading to see that these concepts could help our marriage. I printed out volumes of stuff, bought "HNHN", and "LB, Habits that destroy romantic love". (both by Dr Harley) and we begain our journey to a great marriage. It took about 2 1/2 years to get pretty good, and by now it is wonderful. (4 years plus a little, because I started reading way before I started posting.)

In the early days, I spent way too much time here, but now I am careful, and do it mostly on my lunch hour, and short posts during the day. You may notice I rarely post on weekends - so I can spend time with my own family, and to help others in connection with my church service.

My W supports me in this, because it is something that really helped our marriage. I should mention that neither of us has been involved in an A.


CC, I got to thinking..... I think spanish is your first language. I hope that poem was enjoyable in english. You do so well, that I didn't think of it when I first posted it. Poems are one thing that don't always translate well in someone's mind.

NKay - I hope you find success. Glad you got something from that poem - Edgar A Guest has always been a favorite of mine.

Orchid - a while ago you asked me how I was doing. We are doing really well. Talking about going to the Islands for our 30th anniv - but I don't know if we can do it. IF we do, We may look you up - but then, on Anniv trips she says it's just for the two of us, so maybe not. We'll see.

Also CC, (just posting stuff as it comes to my mind.) We have eight children, but only two still at home. Twins that are 12 years old. I am glad you are re-connecting with Christ. One of the reasons I post is because of a scripture.
Luke 22:32
I feel I am bound to help if I can.

Orchid, how about you?

Ok CC, thanks for listening. Sorry abou the little bit of a thread jack.

There are different kinds of courage. All of us are afraid of something, it's just that it's something different with each of us. I believe you are showing great courage by how you live, and how you react to the pain you have been through. Not everyone does so well. I really do admire that.

SS

SS,

I am fine. Working hard and for now trying to stay out of the rain.

We would love to visit with you and your W or even family while here. H played hired tour guide to 2 couples this past week. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> So at the very least, we can direct you to where t/g to have some fun. The outer islands IMHO are more fun but Oahu has a lot t/d also. Just a bit more citified on Oahu.... according to my son at least Oahu has Gamestop. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am waiting for lemonman to let us know if he is coming or not. We would love to visit with him also. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Aloha,
L.

SS I asked you this because I already KNEW that infidelity wasn't part of your history, and that you had found MB when searching for help for other relationship problems. That is precisely why I was curious.

I'm glad you have found a balance in your life and are able to post so and help so much here on MB. I still don't really understand how you manage to do it!

So please tell your wife that she has a friend down/up here, because she must be one very special person to share her life with you, and I thank her for letting you share your wisdom and your kindness with us. Thank her for me please.



The truth is that I don't have a first language, I am as good as I am bad for both english and spanish. I don't think I can strictly be called bilingual because I have things I can only do in english and others I can only do in spanish. I think in english, but many conversations in my mind are obviously in spanish. I pray in english. Took me a long while to learn the Our Father and Hail Mary in spanish.
I can only study in spanish, which means that I have to translate textbooks to understand them, but for leisure I can only read in english! I get bored trying to read in spanish, I don't even read a whole newspaper article!

So poetry is in english! so is infidelity thanks to MB.

Actually english is a much richer and expressive language. One of my aunts who was a history teacher used to defend the spanish language (I guess it bothered her that we spoke in english among ourselves with my brothers and sister). It was one of those things that I always kept in the back of my mind because I would know many more words to describe something in english than in spanish, or I couldn't find a translation for an english word. So at one period when I had time and internet, I wrote to a language institute and asked them. Turns out that english has DOUBLE the vocabulary of spanish! So I was right and I even printed out the answer and brought it back to my aunt. And now I know why there are some things that you cannot explain in spanish. To start with THERE IS NO WORD FOR AFFAIR!





Well I'm just starting on my journey of reconnecting so I can't quote scripture yet! But I've alays been one to try to help if I can but here on MB I have felt useless in that sense until now, but I was learning. Didn't want to give the wrong advice because people who come here are in a very very fragile state. I have so admired the way some people can help with just one or two sentences! it all becomes so clear! They "hit the nail on the head"!!!!

It is oly this last week that I have felt that I may be able to help a person or two! so I'm happy that I'm finally starting to "get it" and maybe I can help.

It was also good to hear Dr. Harley. He REALLY does get it! I hope I can hear him again because since they changed the program hours I haven't been able to.

One thing Dr. H said on the show I thought very, very interesting, was that he didn't offer advice unless it was asked for. And he is right about that. It is rarely appreciated when not asked for and can even provoke rejection.

I don't mind threadjacks at all. Actually maybe I'll go to the Island too! I would love to meet Orchid in person!

Aloha CC,

U r most certainly welcome to come and visit. Just let us know when.

L.

This is for SS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You told me you wanted to know about my dreams...

Mid morning today I remembered my dream last night:

I met WH and he was nude! and he just explained that that how he was now. Always nude <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Now what does that mean????????

Actualy in my dream I thought it was funny and he was definitely mad!


These have been hectic weeks at work: half of the employees are trying to get me kicked out. I think it has backfired and tomorrow there will be a general meeting with bosses and we'll see the results.

I have also told the bosses that I'm thinking of quitting, mainly because I cannot work.
But I said I will give them my answer after Easter week which is generally a holiday here.

So it has been very very hectic. I'm calm. But I have not only that to think about but also the thread I started here!

Lots to do...

Just a quick update, specially for Mimi

A couple of days ago I was getting home and as I turned the corner I see WH getting out of his car at the door of the house. He was picking dds up for lunch. First I stopped. Then I thought, why not. I'll just go home and let it be what it will be.

As I was drawing up behind his car I got a call on my work phone. While I talked, dd opened the door, WH went and droppedsome thingsoff for them came out again, approached me (still sitting in the car) gave me a kiss on the cheek and left.

Guess that's what it was meant to be. No emotion on my part.

You sound mostly good whenever I run across your posts. I have been doing a major project at work, and have not been on much.

Sorry for not replying to you, will try to read and visit your thread this week.

Hope you laugh often. IT's good for us.

SS

I met WH and he was nude! and he just explained that that how he was now. Always nude <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Now what does that mean????????

I think it means he wasn't properly dressed for social engagements. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I really don't know what it means - I wonder if you are starting to reject him in your heart. If you no longer see him as an acceptable choice.

Actualy in my dream I thought it was funny and he was definitely mad!

What do you think it means?

Also by dreams, I mean day dreams. Do you ever dream of heaven? What do you look forward to in life?



These have been hectic weeks at work: half of the employees are trying to get me kicked out. I think it has backfired and tomorrow there will be a general meeting with bosses and we'll see the results.

And the results?
You can't just say something like that and then not tell us.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I am guessing the ones that want you fired are the ones that don't like change in any form. What else?

That would be on your mind a lot, sorry you have to cope with it. May you holiday be a good one.

SS

let's see....



I think you may be right. I hate the kind of person he has become. And there is nothing to endear me to him in 2 years, so that may be it.



well last week was a holiday (the whole week) and today is also a holiday so we will see the results tomorrow.

What happened was that they got together and decided that they have been suffering from mental and psychological abuse from me for one year and they want me out. I think it was a phenomena of mass histeria. Let me tell you there is not one written and signed statement to document this abuse from any of the 30 + in the whole year.

Anyway, big bosses decided on the following day, when they got this petition, decided that they would relieve me of my duties... by promoting me to deputy director! But first they have to be told that someone has to take over and maintain the standards that have been achieved this last year and they will be told I will be around while they look for another job for me. In the meantime the order is to transfer or fire each and everyone of the employees one by one as they go back to their usual behaviours: coming late, being absent, crocheting or knitting at work etc.

So we'll see what happens. It is sad because it will be cruel. But they asked for it.

So your punishment for "poor performance" is to be promoted. That's not bad. I thought that only happened in my company. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />