I've decided to write about some of the basics of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR>I originally created a post on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>… and after having a few sessions with Steve Harley… he convinced me to stay with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>… and outlined for me some vital elements that were missing from my interpretation of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>. This is what I wish to share with anyone who has an interest. Comments here include my discussions with Steve Harley and may, because of the particulars of my situation, not be appropriate for everyone's situation. Again, this is <I>my</I> take on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>.<P>I welcome as many comments on other points of view... I am not <B>the</B> expert... you've got to go the Harley's for that!<P>First a few quotes from <B><I>the book</I></B>... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(#3.) The (betrayed) spouse needs to know that he/she had done his/her best to save their marriage. (page 76 of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...and... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(#4.) If the (betrayed) spouse follows the plans (A & B), and they(the plans) fail, the (betrayed) spouse would no longer have any feelings of love for the wayward spouse. (page 76 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>To this end... one needs to note a few important aspects of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR><OL TYPE=A> <BR><LI> Both <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> are a cohesive collection of steps that lead one down a <B>very narrow path</B> of marital recovery… They must work together if <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> does not work by itself.<BR><LI> You start <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> only after some time in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... a normal amount of time in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> could/should be about 6 months... but can be as little almost nothing to much more than 6 months.<BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> can only be as effective as <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> was in setting up a foundation for the establishing a "safe" environment for the wayward spouse to return!<BR><LI> That environment created in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> must also be "non-threatening", yet "changing" where the wayward can clearly see that there are improvements made in the betrayed's ability to meet the wayward's emotional needs.<BR><LI> Continuing in Plan A is recommended until the wayward ultimately show signs of complete rejection of accepting there have been improvements by the betrayed… and/or the betrayed's feelings turn to one of overt anger… and resentment!<BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> should be put off as long as possible and builds off the benefits derived from <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>!<BR><LI> Damaging a good track record of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> can be done in as little as one day of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busting</A> and what the betrayed remembers is the most recent actions before <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>!<BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> has to have a seamless transition from <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>, because once the betrayed is in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> there is <B>no more laying down a foundation!</B><BR><LI> The main element of <B><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A></B> is to have the waiting spouse avoid angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, selfish demands, annoying behavior and dishonesty at all costs! These are the five most common forms of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>! <BR><LI> By avoiding all possible <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> there are no withdrawals from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A> of the wayward spouse. Any withdrawals weaken the case for a "safe" environment for the wayward to return to.<BR><LI> In general… <B>anything</B> that would make the wayward unhappy can be deemed as a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A>!. One time <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> are bad enough… but repetitive occurrences are disastrous.<BR><LI> The wayward defines the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A>… <B>not the waiting spouse</B>.<BR><LI> There is an exception that Steve Harley recognizes (as far as a "valid" <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A>… and that would be, actions needed to protect the waiting spouse and/or children especially from physical harm. These actions, although they may be perceived as <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> by the wayward… can not be tolerated!<BR><LI> Additionally "active divorce proceedings" require that only facts (as objectively as possible) be presented to the courts… with honest truthfulness being very important. This, Steve Harley regards as a "gray" area of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busting</A>.<BR><LI> The waiting spouse must keep the focus that they are <B>still married</B>. That they still have their spouse!<BR><LI> Deposits into the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A> of the wayward should still be attempted…even if the waiting spouse doesn't know the actual needs of the wayward… At a minimum "trial and error" in determining the important emotional needs can be used.<BR><LI> The waiting spouse must reassess their concept of "level of fairness"… and be willing to be the catalyst of <B>all</B> actions needed to improve the chance of recovery. This is sometimes referred to as the "doormat" issue… Having to do it all with no contribution from the wayward… sometimes even to the detriment of the waiting's self-respect/self-esteem…. Steve asks the rhetorical question… "Would you be a <B>doormat</B> for 3 months if you'd get $1,000,000 at the end?"<BR><LI> Avoid those you would suck you into believing your self-esteem/respect will suffer. You will have the rest of your life to rebuild it… if it does suffer. In most cases… doing the more noble action is a builder of self-respect/esteem.<BR><LI> "You have no rights when your married"… if you believe in divorce as <B>not being an option!</B> The taker cannot take over in Plan A! Steve Harley says… at divorce time… if during Plan A you keep your self-respect, and self-esteem as the most important issues… that you "stood up for yourself"… the judge will say "good for you… now you're single!"<BR><LI> Focus must be on building back that <B>passion</B> and realizing that that romantic love is <B>VERY</B> conditional as was the process of falling in love.<BR><LI> For those who pray… should pray for "clarity" of the wayward's mind… and your own "patience and focus".<BR></OL><P>If you accept <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... seek also the support and fellowship of the people on the Forum... you'll need it! <P>I have a post already on Plan B… see <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/011046.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101</A>. My experiences of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A>, and other's here at the forum, are meant to enlighten… not be treated as a replacement for formal counseling.<P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited December 29, 1999).]

JIM SUPER SUPER SUPER <P>Point G..... VERY IMPORTANT<P>I'm listening.<P>I'm going to get an A this semester. I really am. I had to take algebra 3 times before I got it, I have to say that Plan A is even harder. But I am not a quitter, so sign me up for another semester. I will transition to B before I lovebust again. (I hope!!!! )<P>TNT

Ok, my new years resolution, do the best plan A I can do. Shall we have a compittion? What was the best or hardest thing you did right? I will start with one night my H came home late after going out after work with OW I was up because the power had just gone out. I did not accuse him or do any LB, just gave him a hug and he followed me into the bedroom to give me a kiss Lora

Jim-<P>As per usual, very thought out post. You are amazing!!<P>I just keep asking myself over and over again; Cheryl, do you want to be right, or do you want to be married???<P>I am learning, through the grace and wisdom of God, how to forgive and forget, how to let Him be the judge and how to let Him control my life. <P>Great post, Jim. I'm w/ you all the way!!!!<P>God Bless,<P>Cheryl<p>[This message has been edited by ceecee (edited December 31, 1999).]

never mind.....<BR>tnt<p>[This message has been edited by trustntruth (edited December 29, 1999).]

Cheryl, your post made me smile - wistfully, but it was a smile ... where you said: "I just keep asking myself over and over again; Cheryl, do you want to be right, or do you want to be married???" This was the first thing I realized after I came up from the dark recesses of my depression. See what I get for needing to be right?<P>And, because it sounds like something I said to an online friend from this forum who decided that it was wrong of me not to go to Plan B ... and ceased corresponding with me because I didn't. I said, "It's a shame that it's more important for you to be right than it is to be my friend."<P>So it works that way in all "relationships" - marriages, families, friendships - all of them. <P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P>

Up to the top!

Thanks Jim,<BR>Please keep posting. Since my lovebuster yesterday morning and coming here, i have decided that i will be the doormat and keep showing her i am willing to meet her needs. You mentioned romantic love, how do you get there. Please read my story. IF you need more info, let me know. <BR>I have to look at the positives my wife is still with me, she is still in my bed, she isn't going out for long unexplained trips anymore, she is talking to me, we do go out by ourselves, we are playing games together, she still calls me honey. <BR>I just have to block out the negatives she is still talking to him and seeing him, she is hiding contact from me, she doesn't see a problem w/ the FRIENDSHIP, no initiated physical contact(holding hands,kissing,holding each other but she lets me hold hands,etc.), distance not knowing who she is anymore.<P>Sorry so long, but Jim keep us up.<P>Derek

back up<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Hi Jim<P> Very good post and as one who did 5mos. of Plan A(not a very good one though) and then 2 weeks of Plan B and now having a rocky recovery and counseling with Steve, my question is , it's all well and good but what does the betrayed do with those emotions sitting there, the intense anger, the depression , the pit in the stomach? Even now thinking back to Plan A and being advised to cut all LB's I feel like I will explode and remember the excruciating feeling of walking on eggshells and feeling a rage under the surface.....exercise helped but holding in those feelings are awful.... any advice as to how you are doing it? Lu

Lu,<P>In recovery, as was mentioned on some recent posts, the anger and (almost) hatred returns with a vengence. I am not looking forward to this... <BR>In my time I will... but I'm so far away from recovery... oh well.<P>Recovery... means some very hard struggles... <BR>The one thing I think must help, as all those "bad" feelings flood back in... is to <B>one more time</B> learn to <B>forgive</B>. All those "feelings" will seem to nullify any previous forgiveness you've given in the past. Check out the same site I recommend to pre-recovery folks who still have that pain...<A HREF="http://www.divorcebusting.com/forumlinks4.html" TARGET=_blank>Forgiveness is a Gift You Give Yourself</A>. Yes, I know it is not a Harley site... thank heavens that the Harleys are is not the only one with good insight!<P>I think of one plan as being concurrent through all phases... Plan P... prayer!<P>My prayers to you... <P>Jim

It would be very good to keep a motel or place to stay or one way ticket somewhere for when those times come and you think you cannot control your feelings around your spouse.<P>I guess that is what I'm going to have to do, is have a place to hang out until I'm stronger - vs. lovebusting when I'm so angry I can't stand it.<P>This forum helps me some, when I am frustrated and need to vent, but our situation can get so explosive - that I know I need to "plan" ahead. I'm sure those days will come again.<P>forgiveness is hard, but I think very important to recovery - but doesn't come as easily as we think it can. There is always a price to pay when you forgive.<P>tnt