I think I remember telling you was husband was like Jykle & Hyde. Last night when I got home from work he started on me immediately. I guess he had time to really think or stew about what I said the night before.<P>He commented on how nice I looked, very sexy, and I'm sure the men at work your attracted to really enjoyed the view all day. I'm going to see the Backstreet Boys tonight with my sister, he's know about it for weeks now, he has no interest and seemed O.K. about me going until last night. He said "are you meeting your boyfriend there", don't call me if you get lost, don't smash up the car or you'll be sorry". I said "what is wrong, why are you acting this way, please stop". <P>The he started 3rd degreeing me about who I work with that I was attracted to, wanted names. He knows the men I work with, of course doesn't like any of them, they all want to sleep with me in his eyes. Ironically, he especially doesn't like OM, who he only met a couple of times, when we were just friends he drove me home from work when I had problems with my vehicle. He immediately mentioned him, he said "is it that tool, fatso, the one with the ugly wife (met his wife at a company picnic), I could tell by the way he looked at you, he would jump your bones in a minute". I said "no, he's happily married, stop it". <P>I tryed to avoid him by going upstairs and not responding to his angry comments. As I got undressed, he stood there watching, continuing, "so tell me, who else has seen your beautiful body, who else has touched you, every man in the office probably". He said "I'm just telling you right now, if you are so unhappy you better not ever, ever,cheat on me, cause I swear you won't get anything, I'll take you by that hair of yours throw you outside,burn your clothes and the house down, kill the OM and believe me you'll be very sorry." <P>I started crying and said "I guess I can't you how I feel", he said "you know how insecure I am, jeolous I am and I've been trying to control it, now I feel even worse and I find myself wanting to check up on you, watch your every move, I don't want to be that kind of person again". He said, "no, I don't want hear that from you anymore, if your unhappy leave because I don't deserve to have a hoar, slut, blah, blah, piece of **** wife who sleeps around in my bed". <P>He left the house for awhile, after he punched the wall, threw some thing and slammed a few doors. When he got home I was in bed and pretended to be sleeping. Nothing was said this morning, and was afraid to defend myself last night, I really didn't say much but I'm sorry and please don't be so mad. I said I would never cheat.<P>He doesn't even know and this is how is acted, I wish I never said anything. <P>OM came up to me this morning and tryed to get my eye contact, I completely avoided him, I got up and walked away. As I was walking away, he said "have a good time at the concert tonight, O.K."<p>[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited September 23, 1999).]

Hummingbird your H is very insecure. I checked on your profile where you say you developed feelings for this co-worker, but your H does not know about it. Are you sure? You can nevr know for sure and it sounds like he either knows or has an idea at least. Someone might have noticed something and tell your H. Or he might instinctively feel something. And if he was a jealous person even before this, it would certainly make it worse.<BR>I'm afraid I don't recall if you told him about what happened since you wrote your profile or not. And depending on how well you know him you can judge if it's a good idea or not. But without that knwoledge myself I would think the best thing to do would be to tell him that your are having problems with the relationship and you really need his help to get back on track. Also I suppose it would help if you try to be as reassuring as possible, willing to include him in everything you do and even to make the sacrifice of not doing some things that you enjoy just so he can feel more reassured. Since he's focusing in your work (which by the way is the right direction ) maybe it would be a good idea - if at all possible - to ask him to pick you up there for lunch, or at the end of the day. Not only he would see you in your work environment and maybe get a more real picture of what you do there, but it will reassure him knowing you were making a statement:I ammarried, this is my H. When my H changed jobs ( a couple of years before the affair ) things became very different than on his last one. On the other I knew almost everybody, and most people knew me. Then he changed and his work life became completely separate from me. I didn't know them, they didn't know me. When the affair happened, I wasn't a real person to some of his friends, they didn't know me, so they thought the affair was really cool. When it ended and he finally took me there, and we went to a wedding from one of his friends that worked with him, Ibecame real to that people - I was not just the wife, I was a person, and a nice one too. SOme of them chaned their minds. The affair hadn't been that cool anymore. They even told him about it. That gave me confidence. Now I'm again part of his whole life including work, When he gets together with his friends from there, I'm invited - in some cases I'm expected, period-. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well, but that part was very important for me and to help me feel less insecure.<BR>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.<p>[This message has been edited by Kat1 (edited September 23, 1999).]

Hummingbird,<P>this kind of situation that you dealt with last night/this morning is the same kind that always used to make it so hard for me to break off the affair. what I am referring to is when I would try and open up to my H about our relationship and what was happening, he would be very unapproachable, unforgiving, and make me feel horrible. next day, OM would be very approachable, loving, and concerned. This is going to take a lot of fortitude on your part to not be swayed. I wish our H's could be more open to conversations about the relationship, if only they could realize how much is at stake when they push us away like that.

Oy vey mahogany.<P>I agree with Kat that your H is going through an insecure time. His job is in jeopardy, he's a conflict avoider, and then out of the blue, you hit him with being attracted to other men.<P>He is not an idiot. He can do the math....and he doesn't quite know what to do. And right now you've attached a lie to the situation.<P>God I hate when men do this...that one man means everyone. That if you've slept with one it means you've slept with the immediate world. That's such a double standard. But it's also outside the scope of this discussion.<P>I really think it's time to get the two of you into counseling. The lies must stop before they get compounded. Clearly you need a safe place to confess, and it's obvious based on what he's doing now that home, and alone is NOT that safe place.<P>I understand jealousy; I've lived with it for the last year. Jealousy is a function of low self-esteem. It says, "I'm not worthy and I don't deserve you, and if you have the chance, you'll go off with someone else." The more I hear from you, the more I think that the self-fulfilling prophecy thing I mentioned earlier might have some validity here.<P>I'm not one for advocacy of the phone counseling offered here for the most part, but in your case, I think it might be advisable. You don't have time to jump from therapist to therapist, and I'm not convinced that your current counselor is equipped to deal with this.<P>Your H has his own issues that he has to deal with or not, as he chooses. I chose to deal with mine; most men don't. But please...get some help for you BOTH ASAP.

After last night, I will never tell him. He'll kill me and I truly believe he'd do all those things. He would definitely confront OM and probably beat the **** out of him.<P>He has always been extremely jealous, earlier in our relationship, he used to check the car seat in my vehicle, check the mileage in my car, etc. But that was before we married, my parents didn't approve of him because of this. He got much better when we married. Every once in awhile it would show it's ugly head again. Two years ago before the affair I went to a company xmas party, I came home and told him I slow danced with a co-worker (not OM), because he directly asked if I had, it was nothing, he then accused me of cheating, said he'd kick me the head if I ever did that again, etc. Since then though nothing has happened in this regard but I have done anything to aggrevate it either.<P>I'm afraid I've unleased the beast again. <BR>

Hummingbird--<BR>What if your husband finds out about the affair and you're not in a save place...I worry about your safety.<P>I'm afraid that you will hide this from him and he will find out anyway. Maybe you should talk to your counselor about telling him in a save environment.<P>It must be tough not to want to run to the OM right now, but just remember that things are still the same...he's still with his wife.<P>Have you told your sister what's going on? I was scared about telling my sister what happened with me because her husband had an affair only a few months before mine and they are now divorced. But, she ended up being very supportive. Maybe your sister could give you some sound advice since she knows your husband.

Hum,<P>I'm at work right now so can't write much... but here goes:<P>I agree with everyone who said get someplace safe AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. That's first. Secondly, don't fall back on the OM. I make that mistake myself. Like Tamis said, it's always when the H acts awful that the OM comes around with a kleenex and a hug for you. So easy to fall into the same patterns with the OM. I know! Third, your H knows about the OM, he's no idiot. If you TRULY feel that he will be violent (and really think about this one!) then you need to prepare accordingly. But... and THINK HERE, if he's just trying with everything in him to FIND OUT THE TRUTH then maybe a safe place to tell it to him is the best. Really think before you DO anything along those lines.<P>I'll check in later... take care!<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited September 23, 1999).]

If he knows or strongly suspects the truth, which it is, denials will only make him crazier. For me the lies and the half truths were more devasting to our relationship than the affair itself. Of course my H was not in danger of any physical harm, so of course that is a real consideration for you.<P>I think NB was right. Get to a safe place and admit. At least you can control that enviornment somewhat. You won't be able to control it as much if he finds out and comes after you after you have lied to him with your denials.<P>It is his marriage and he does have a right to know...don't you think? No partner deserves to be lied to. Of coure no one wants you to be physically abused and you need to do everything you can to safeguard yourself.<P>Do not go to OM...that will just make it worse for everyone including his wife and child who should not have to be involved with your H's rage for any reason.<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I won't go running to OM, nothing has changed between us, regardless of my life right now, I'm trying to separate us and whatever happens to me is my problem and I definitely do not want any hurt to come to him, his wife or family.<P>I am afraid that even if I tell him in a safe place, he will explode when we're alone and I keep going through the scenario in my mind, he knows where OM lives.<P>I'm afraid to move at this point. My counselor told me she doesn't suggest joint counseling at this point. She feels I should continue going alone.<P>I know everyone is trying to help, but I know I can't have bodyguard either.

OK, Hum, here's a number you can call if you need it; if you fear for your safety:<P>Shelter our Sisters Hotline: (201) 944-9600<P>For other information, you might want to try the Women's Rights Information Center in Englewood: (201) 568-1166. They might be able to set you up with a counselor who specializes in your situation.<P>Please keep in touch.

Hummingbird,<P>D&C is correct. Your husband is not a complete idiot. You have been in an affair for two years. Do you think he does not know something is wrong? It is an amazement to me that the betrayers somehow think that they cover their tracks so well. He KNOWS something is wrong. You then come in and start to beat about the bush about feelings for other men. You then express amazement that after a few hours to think about it you H, who apparently loves you, might be jealous. What would you feel if you were in his place? HELLO! He knows you are lying and is trying to get the truth. He is trying to scare you into giving him the truth or stopping your "feelings for other men from going further". After all that is what you told him.<P>I think your fear of your H's response has more to do with your unwillingness to tell him the truth. A safe place such as the councelors office would be good. But the response is very likely that it will break him up and you will see tears not bullets. It will be too late for him to stop things and he will know that.<P>Please think about the honesty issue. Your H may be / probably is insecure and has reasons to be jealous, but if he is basically a good man and has shown no violent tendencies in the past (you have not indicated any) then have a real hard look at what you are really afraid of in this situation.<P>There is no easy way out but has many have posted, there is hope for a good result once you remove the OM from you life.<P>Good Luck and God Bless You

Dear Hummingbird.<P>There is nothing worse than suspecting and being suspicious. It is far worse than the truth. The longer you wait to tell the truth, the longer it will be until you two can work on this marriage, and the harder it will be to work on it.<P>I'm not saying that it isn't possible, it is. But you need absolute support, and you need to tell him the truth. Do it in a safe place, and have a back up plan for his predicted blow up. <P>And, if your counselor isn't up to snuff, (in my opinion she isn't...) - then get a referral to a counselor through this website. Or, call the counseling center on this web-site and ask for the advice on how you should tell him, and/or offer your husband the opportunity for marriage building counseling.<P>It is coming to a head, and you are having a hard time hiding your feelings. I can sense when my husband isn't quite right with things, and it is always there. I'm sure it is the same for your husband.<P>By not telling your husband, it is like a slap in the face - by saying that he is stupid, and that he can't figure anything out. It probably enrages him that you have hid this from him, more than the affair itself. It is really a low blow to be lied to. Really low.<P>So, you need to start something that is going to help this situation, not make it worse. <P>Good luck.<BR>And may God Bless your marriage.<BR>TNT

Amen, TnT.<P>Last night I talked with my therapist about this OTHER married guy in OW/"friend"'s seeming "collection", and we talked about why it may not be as much of an issue with HIS wife.<P>Aside from my own issues, one reason is that I'll bet he was never secretive about it the way my H was. It's the secretiveness, the phone calls before I get home from work, the E-mails that I never saw that got me so insecure. I wouldn't have liked it anyway, but if he'd been more up-front about it, I doubt it would have been quite as much of a problem.<P>You are right....lies are worse than any kind of infidelity. At least with the truth, you show you care and you can move on.<P>Hummingbird, it's time to come clean....safely.

Never mind!<p>[This message has been edited by trustntruth (edited September 23, 1999).]

Hummingbird, your husband has made a VERY SCARY threat. Nothing you could have done justifies this sort of talk. He's showing a lot of signs of an abuser, and needs counseling immediately.

Hum,<P>Well, everyone's already given you all the good advice! Let me just add that I'm hoping everything will turn out OK...<P>You knew that eventually this day would come when you had to tell your husband. You can only avoid it for so long... I hope you stay safe!<P>--andy

Without going into further detail about my husband's past, and I know some of you feel it's me being nervous to tell the truth, it is truly not. <P>I swear to God I honesty fear what he will do and I'm crying just typing this. My husband's hobby is hunting, and let's just say there are lots of guns in the house, and he has threatened things before.<P>Sometimes I feel crazy because how can I love someone and be married to someone who I feel would harm me so badly even though I have done something terrible. Up until the point of the affair, my entire relationship, me cheating on him has been an issue. I never deserved it. I've been with him for 14 yrs. So for 12 yrs. I have been asked questions about OM I work, etc. It was worse before I married and my parents saw this and didn't exactly approve of our marriage and actually still feel he is too possessive. It has been a constant problem in our relationship, but I tryed to live with it and just didn't do things to bother him. I don't go out with friends who aren't married, company parties where spouses are not allowed, etc. Believe me my friends have always told me "your husband keeps you a very short leash". He says things at times that just aren't right and I know his anger comes from his childhood. <P>I know everyone is trying to be supportive and guide me down the right path but I also know it's hard for you to understand the whole story, you don't know my husband.<P>Maybe if I fear him this much I shouldn't be married to him. I swear it's not just that I'm afraid to tell him, I honesty fear him at times.<p>[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited September 24, 1999).]

OK, Hum, now we're starting to tread on different territory here.<P>You have to remember one thing: ALL WE KNOW IS WHAT YOU TELL US. Up until yesterday, your H was merely a conflict avoider who tended to channel his resentments into this hobby (which I would guess is hunting, am I right? Or perhaps paintball?). You had this issue about having children, perhaps he wasn't as "warm" as you would like, and so you "fell" into this affair.<P>Now we're getting a little different story. Does he have a violent history or not? If he does, then we're on completely different ground here. NO ONE here, not even the most fervent "marriage is forever" believer, would advocate you staying in a violent, abusive marriage.<P>Now we're talking about a different ballgame here, and because you're not telling us, we can't tell HOW different.<P>Look...if he's abusive, or if you're in that much fear and the fear is RATIONAL, then you should call SOS at the number I posted up above and get the Hell out of there. The reason I say "rational" fear is that I am terrified of my H's anger too. My H has never, ever, done anything remotely violent. Yeah, he's punched walls in frustration, but hasn't put his fist through one since before he met me. He has long arms and legs and will accidentally clock me with his elbows at times like a gangly teenager. But that's not intentional and it's not violent. So why am I terrified? Because of issues from MY childhood, where I learned that anger is forever, that love is something held over your head with the threat of withdrawal at all times, that you can be abandoned for the slightest infraction. It frustrates him when I get so frightened because he knows he hasn't done anything to cause it, and he doesn't understand where it comes from.<P>It's not about fear of bodily harm in my case, it's just FEAR.<P>Do you have similar issues?<P>I'm not saying your fears aren't justified, I'm just throwing some ideas out for you to think about. Only YOU know what's happening there, and all WE have to go on is what you tell us.<P>If he IS abusive, and with all those guns in the house, there's no issue about telling him about the affair, about MB principles, about anything. Then the issue is to GET OUT, and the county is FULL of organizations that can help you. I posted some phone numbers above. Use them if you need them, OK?

Dear Hummingbird,<P>Are you living my life from two years ago?<BR>I could write a book but here are a few thoughts.<P>1. You are in self-preservation mode. That is good and necessary. I think it is important to think about the fact that you are facing the reality of the trouble you are in and the fact that the OM is not going to get you out of this trouble. Truth be known, if you husband knew and went after the OM,I'll bet OM would run and hide. He got you into a lot of trouble by PURSUING you for two years, now , where is he when you need him? What is his PLAN for getting you our of your mess? Hmmmmm<P>2. Of course your husband knows something is up. You are in the worst crisis of your life, you love someone else, you are seeing a therapist, you are almost suicidal and the person you live with does not know something is up? He is just trying to figure out, what and who it is.That is why he is so mad. He is frustrated, the woman he loves is acting so strangely and he does not know how to make it right. He needs to know. Something is wrong with this picture. The person who should be your LOVER, PROTECTOR, BEST FRIEND, CONFIDENT, SUPPORTER, does not know what is happening with you. This is what makes affairs so deadly and so serious. It directs all the energy away from the marriage and somewhere else. Our spouses are supposed to be are number one EVERYTHING and we don't even let them in on the biggest thing that has gone on with us.<P>3. I don't know your husband and I don't know if he would really shoot you. If he really would, then i think your marriage is over anyway, in spite of everything else. I don't think I would stay with someone whom I was convinced would actually, literaly shoot me with a gun until I was dead. Then, I think you need to leave. You could say that "I made a bad mistake that I am sorry for but I was convinced that my husband would take one of his guns and shoot me to death." That would be a legitimate reason to leave. Personally I think he would not shoot you but that you are just deathly afraid of his anger. I know, I had to deal with that two. My husband did three violent things when we were going through what you were going through. First and ONLY times he has ever done anything like that, in over 20 years of marriage. He was mad.....they have a right to be , don't you think? <BR>4. I ended up coming clean in a marriage therapist office, with my therapist and the marriage therapist there. I read a "confession" from a piece of paper. The deal was that I confessed and told some things but that I would not be grilled for details. I thought details would make things much worse.<BR>5. Hummingbird, my heart and stomache hurt all the time until I had come clean and gotten out of the mess I had gotten in. Two years later I am almost back to my (old) new self.....it is such a relief....but that is another story. You have a lot of work ahead of you.

Hummingbird, do the right thing, get out of there and into a safe place, he KNOWS. I can tell by his reaction he KNOWS! You need to get somewhere's where you can let the bombs off without getting hurt by him. I was in this kind of relationship with my first husband and I'm not a betrayer, he just accused me of it. You need to get out before things get worse, before you get hurt or he does something he really doesn't want to do and then there isn't any chance of ever working things out. <BR>It's time to come clean, he probably already has known about the affair for a long time. I knew about my H's even though I had NO proof, I just knew. You love him, I can tell, otherwise you wouldn't be so worried about him, but you need to take care of yourself first. If you can get to a safe place and then have the confrontation without him knowing where you are and explain to him that you needed to tell him about this but felt unsafe telling him to his face because of his threats then maybe he will react differently.<BR>My H didn't want to tell me about his affair because I always said Mrs. Bobbit was justified and if I ever caught him goofing off I would probably react the same way. He thought I truly meant it and I probably did at the time. But you need to come clean in a safe way and give him a chance to express himself without anyone getting hurt. Good Luck, I will pray for you! <P>------------------<BR>Chick's<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<BR>