So this is no longer MB System PLAN B?

More, "moving on with my life"?

Is that why you indulged in the 2 HR. conversation with her? Sometime during that conversation didn't you remember at all about the DARKNESS recommended for PLAN B?

Are you being honest with me, GEORGIA?

I remember A LOT about the darkness and Plan B. Several times I asked her to leave, told her that I didn't wish to continue the conversation with her. However, I didn't just turn around and walk back into the house and close the door the way that I should. She didn't leave, and I stayed and listened to her.

I can't say that I was making any clear thought-out conscious choices at that moment, but it just seemed like I needed (or wanted) to let her say what was on her mind. I guess sometimes I still think that I can talk to her and "we" can work through this thing together, the way we used to work through things. However, it's always the same thing. The more I let her talk, the more she tries to justify and shift the blame to me, all the while trying to minimize the seriousness of her actions with OM.

Does this conversation really seem that unreasonable to you, Mimi? Sounds like you are saying that I was consciously thinking that I could talk with her and thereby further torpedo my marriage by so doing.

On the subject of Plan B vs. "moving on with my own life". It seems to me that a true, effective Plan B is synonomous with moving on with your own life. The only distinction, IMO, is whether your Plan B is a "bluff" meant to fool the WS, or if it for real, meaning that indeed the BS is moving on with his/her life. I think by now it is obvious to you and others her, and I hope to WW as well, that this is not a bluff. I am finished with a 3-way M for good. And yes...this is "moving on with my own life".

Remember, when SH asked me how I felt after the separation and I was honest with him and told him he was a relief, he told me that was how he would expect me to feel. It was his analogy, beging hit in the head with a hammer for 5 years, then it stops and you can only expect it to be pleasant. Life is INFINITELY more pleasant now than living with WW watching her on the phone with OM all the time, hearing about he great he was and how she longed to be with him.

Are you disappointed that I'm not writhing in pain over this? If so, I'm sorry you are disappointed, but this is the TRUTH....

It would be great if we could have a faithful one man , one woman marriage. Anything short of that is unacceptable.

Georgia

Hey Mimi,

Lighten up on ol' FGG.

He's doing much better than I am. My W came over to my new place and actually cooked lunch - in my kitchen. This is hard!

-AD

Wow,

That conversation was probably the most telling of this A being an addiciton...just replace "OM" with "crack" and you will have a part of what she is going through...

She has lived with "crack" for so long, she's not certain what her life would be like without "crack". And because it's such a big part of her life, if she had to give up "crack" she's not sure what she'd fill her life up with. Now that you have bought a place, she's not certain if she gave up "crack" that you would even want her "crack"-addled soul back, and there she's given up "crack" and has nothing in her life...and will probably go back to it. And because "crack" has been such a big par tof her life, she's not confident even if she were to promise to give it up she wouldn't given in and go right back to the same habits with "crack". So it is easier in HER life to try to talk you into living with "crack" in HER life...like you had done for so long.

What an addiction...

But it's like a food addiction, it's not illegal, she can't get arrested for it, we need human company so talking SEEMS right...

But the conversation did show some promise...

But like a "crack" addict, it is better to give them space and not let them take you down with them... Easier to not watch the demise of the addicted...the downward spiral they fall into if using every waking moment trying to get that "fix", that "high" at the exclusion of every other loving being in their path...

I am SOOOO sorry. Man, it is ALL up to her, isn't it.

I like that you had a conversation with her...she got a taste of what life was like pre-"crack"... This will enable her to keep going a bit longer, but will also help her to think of you in your comfy home the next time she is feeling ashamed, clearing the fog, sleeping alone, cooking for herself...etc...

It's healthy to get an addicted person out of arms reach from you...and yet, you can still wait for them to get healthy. You are SUCH an MB SUCCESS story!!!!!

Georgia:

You will see two different posts from me. This new system doesn't allow me to see both of your posts at once. Now that I have gotten over my disappointment I will respond to your visit from your WW.

You said:


Sounds like you knew she was coming? PLAN B, right? Didn't you have a PLAN. Have you lost your fight for your marriage? Have you given up? PLAN B does not mean that you are no longer married. PlAN B means that you are doing this to protect your love for her so that, if she meets your conditions, you can reconcile. You are going on without her but it is a MARRIAGE PROTECTION strategy IMHO.

You said:



Sounds like her same MO to me. What's new? She shows up to your house unannounced. You expected her to come. You had your door wide open..... She insists that the OM will be part of her life. TIME FOR HER TO GO! She is saying nothing new....

Yep, you forgot that she is in the fog! You were trying to talk rationally to an alien? Trying to explain to her the reasons for purchasing the house? You have been educated on this, GEORGIA!! You are now a MB Veteran!!

You said this:



SO THERE! She got her cake-eating fix which enables the A and keeps it going even longer. This prolongs the A. This is what she wanted, to make sure that you still care. As long as you care, it's OK now that you bought the house. It needed to hit her like a ton of bricks! She needs to cry and to feel pain in order to change and to be motivated to withdraw from the drug.

You said:



To me, it is sad that you have had to buy this house. I'm happy that you have found a successful way to cope with this tragedy. However, in my opinion, you and your wife belong together. You want to hold her in your arms. You said this yourself. She misses you too....

You said:



I know you did. It's because she is your wife and she will always be so. She holds a special place in your heart. God brought you together and wants you together, IMHO. Don't forget my viewpoint on this because that's why I am coming at you like this....

You said:


FOG! FOG! NOTHING BUT THE FOG!!!!!

You asked me does the conversation seem unreasonable. No, some conversation, short and sweet, seems reasonable. TWO HOURS? She got all she wanted and more. She ruled!!!! I understand you wanting to talk to her and to convince her. I really do. However, you know better.....

As I said before, PLAN B is not PLAN D. You are making it sound like the two are synonymous. It is meant to protect your love for the WS....

I would say that if you truly are "moving on with your life" you would have not had a 2 hr. conversation with her. You would have called the sheriff. She knows that now. That you are not truly moving on....

I don't think your WW is all that different. I agree that she is extremely addicted to the OM as a cure for her depression. She also is a cake-eater... Hopefully, her IC is helping her with the depression so that she does not have to depend as much on the OM for medication.

I'm relating to you as I do my teenage son. I wouldn't have anything to say to you if I didn't care. I don't take up this much time for folks I don't care about!

You said:


Now, Georgia. Don't be ugly! We are still friends. Why would I want to see you in pain? That's not what I am saying. I agree with the WAR analogy regarding battling As. MM counseled me that way and it was really helpful. YOU LOST PARTICULAR BATTLE! I hate it for you. SHE WON!! You didn't use the STRATEGIES you had been taught and had available. I cannot understand why. So I have to ask are you still fighting for your marriage or not? Maybe you are not. That's your choice.

When I was in PLAN B, I was only going on with my life because I felt like I had no other choice. I had to. I cannot relate to the notion of being happy about it. Maybe that's how you really feel but it doesn't sound like it.

I found this Harley article about PLAN A AND PLAN B. The way I read this is that PLAN B is part of a system aimed at MARITAL RECOVERY.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

Mimi..maybe I will deserve all the wrath that can be sent my way for this, but I'm going to say it anyway.

You ask if I am still fighting for my marriage. The truth is.... I don't really know at this point. Can you understand that? I don't know if that is the way I SHOULD feel (is there some way any of us SHOULD feel?). I guess the truth is that I am (maybe with some measure of hedonism) fighting for my own sanity. It is with no small measure of relief that I am beginning to feel "whole" again. As I said recently, I am finally beginning to get to the point that this whole thing doesn't permeate my thoughts every moment that I am awake, and even if I wake up in the middle of the night this has been the first thing I think of. I am beginning to be able to function as a normal human being again. And it feels good!!!

She has made it very, very obvious by not only her fog talk but her actions that me, our kids and our DIL's come WAY below OM#1 and OM#2 in importance. I do not spend time thinking about what to do if her next appearance on my porch is accompanied by an announcement that she has forsaken OM#2. Actually, I think it more likely that OM will tire of her and end the R much the same way that OM#1 did. Another rhetorical question...what if that happened and she showed up all teary eyed saying that OM#2 is now gone and she's all alone?

I dunno Mimi...you're making me think about a lot of things right now. I guess I am finding life very, very comfortable right now and I want to make sure I'm not putting the nails in the casket of my marriage myself. I am tempted to want to put on my SC (Super Christian) tee-shirt and sound all spiritual and pledge my undying devotion forever and ever.

As far as "what's new?"...the concept that yes indeed she did say these things but she can't be held accountable for them. Kind of an "insanity" plea while the defendant is still acting insane (IMO).

But...(I know I'm all over the place here, bear with me)...it was very easy to see that accomodating her in conversation quickly allowed her to start trying to unleash all of her blame on me and absolve herself of any wrong doing. (Did you know that when we first got married - 28 years ago, I liked to watch TV and she didn't? Well, that was brought to my attention Thursday evening). We ALL knew that she would show up there sooner or later since she had the address, I can say that I did not act in a manner consistent with my Plan. I am at fault for that.

But...I am again saying that the NEXT time, there will be no more conversation, no more of this rambling on and on incessantly. I PROMISE (my fingers are not crossed).

Georgia

P.S. - I am not ashamed of the fact that during the convo, I referred to OM#2 as a lazy homewrecker who can't even take care of his own wife. WW then called me......"judgemental".

I am sorry, but I can't remember what Om's W thinks of his relationship with your W. Is she incapacitated in some way? Is she OK with it? Have you spoken to her regarding your actions and how seriously you take their actions? Have you tried to get her to take some action to put a stop to the relationship...'friendship'?

I do agree with Mimi and others in that your W got her fix from you which only aids to continue her cake eating ways.

I am overall really, really happy for you! I admire how well you have coped with all this. I want you to know that. I think that PLAN B has worked for you in ridding you of the pain of exposure to your WW and allowing you to "move on" as you say.

However, I do acknowledge feeling uncomfortable with too much glee. I feel like I'm participating in some sort of denial. There has been a death here or an impending death of a marriage....

Like your WW knows, I know that you are not really finished with her.... You can't be after all these years...

Do you see that by engaging her in conversation, allowing her to look into your eyes, she got another taste of you, some more cake.....

Trix - I know from previous conversations with OMW that she is NOT comfortable with this, but she is submissive to the point of being a doormat. Perhaps part of her culture, maybe? (Iranian). I don't think she will be any help and I've not spoken to her since Plan B.

Mimi....I want to make sure you understand that the "glee" is due to the freedom from the pain, not freedom from WW. There is absolutely nothing to celebrate in the nearing demise of our marriage (or so it seems), and I am not taking comfort in riding myself of WW. Much to the contrary, I find great pain in thinking of the way W was before the aliens' abducted her. When I looked at her sitting on my front porch, there were moments of feeling that soaring feeling again, being in her presence and knowing the comfort of being near her. Loss of that is absolutely NOTHING to celebrate.

However, I have to realize that I think I have done everything that I can do (with some failures along the way, as you are well aware) to keep from getting to this point or allowing it to continue this way.

Denial? I don't think so. It is painful...it is lonesome....and it is scarey.

Georgia

Georgia:

Why the repeat 2-hr. conversations?

What PLAN do you have to prevent this from occurring ever again?

Do you understand or buy the concept of her being able to cake-eat when she contacts you?

Mimi...because I am weak and when she shows up standing at my door I can't say NO and close the door in her face like I should.

I entirely buy the cake-eating concept.

What plan can I have other than to say I know that it is the right thing to do and I'll try not to give in the next time?

I know you understand weakness in Plan B....because I remember you've admitted some of your "activities" that were less than Plan B compliant. (no offense intended).

Georgia

I know. I hate to see you make my same mistakes. That's how come I understand.

I'm parenting you today.

I learned to stay ready for the next BATTLE. I'm reminding you to remain on the alert.

I'm finished with this for today. OK? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You can tell I'm no longer a CA. I'm loving this new self....

FGG,

Your dilemma with WW reminds me of the pesky traveling sales people peddling concentrated household cleaner that can take off anything, kill bugs, and is EDIBLE!?

My son got to watch me in action this weekend, and was quite in admiration.. So here - you can take lessons from the pro on how to get rid of problems on your doorstep. (By the way, my "way" of handling this guy had been mentally rehearsed from two previous times of suckering into these guys' "story".

He rang the doorbell, and I knew from looking at him what he was peddling before he opened his mouth, based on his manner - just like you know what your WW is peddling as well.

He had just totally disregarded the "NO SOLICITORS" sign pasted RIGHT by the doorbell, so they must hire illiterates - just like WWs lose their ability to read a simple Plan B letter that says NC or NC!

He called me "MOMMA" which just sent my son into a fit - as did his calling my son, Brother!. When I told him I had no time for a pitch, he said, "I know Momma I don't want to hold you up" but you knew he intended to hold my time hostage until he got what he wanted. He stepped to the side of my porch to show me how his nifty cleaner could clean the rust off my porch swing after I told him several times to please leave... And I set his nifty cleaner and brochure down on the porch, stepped inside my house, closed and locked the door and let him deal with it.

My son watched out the front window grinning as the guy waved in a sarcastic sort of salute, and said, "He sure didn't listen to you very well, MOMMA!"

He said, "If you really were his momma, he wouldn't dare be so rude and disrespectful when you told him NO. See, even my 12 yr old son understands the word NO.

Could be your WW needs a remedial lesson from childhood. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Good Morning -

Thanks, Kayla, for the simple lesson. I like the calling you "MOMMA" part! Did that make It does seem like the NO should be well understood by now, doesn't it?

Okay, Mimi...thank you for keeping me on a short leash. Next time I'll not indulge WW if for no other reason than to avoid being "parented" by you the next day.

I resumed pottery last night and that was very nice. Can't say that I made any works of art, but I got in a lot of practice on the wheel. It was fun anyway, a nice cool misty night to be out and it was peaceful. Really tacky bluegrass music playing (the twangy sort). Plus....I got to see an MD hurl a pot across the room. Our teacher kindly chided him about his behavior.

This afternoon my friend (the one I've been seeing at church) is coming over to the house for a while. I'm looking forward to his visit. I've known him longer than anyone else in this town as he is the guy who hired me in 1981. It's inspiring to see the journey he's traveled. Through a divorce, battling alcoholism, medical disabilities, and now a strong Christian man, happily married, and helping others who are traveling where he's been.

Next week I start training for some volunteer work I'm going to be doing with troubled youth. I think training starts on Thursday night, then is each Tuesday and Thursday nights for 5 weeks (going to be out of pottery for a while).

Back to original subject.....I know that my visit from WW last week "empowered" her somewhat. She called the next day with the story about candy for Reggie, and she called yesterday and left a message reminding me of a dental appointment. She's really acting as though she's gotten her foot back in the door, and she's trying to come on in to give me her sales pitch on her sure-fire rust remover and cleaner.

I've got to learn from KA and say NO !!

Oh...in other news. #2S is considering a position with another church. It is in a town closer to where he & DIL are in college, and the church has a house for the youth pastor. I know this would probably be a good move for them, but I would no longer be seeing them on Sunday's for lunch when they're in town.

Georgia

OH MY, Georgia:

I remain bothered about your WW....

She needs to be suffering today. Instead, I think she's probably relieved.

ONWARD......

At least you didn't do SF like I did...

Good Morning, Mimi....

2 years ago today, Mimi. Big anniversary for you, probably "bittersweet".

Congratulations, your Plan worked!!!

Georgia

WOW!

I didn't even notice the date!

It seems like such a short period of time.

FGG -

I don't post very much, but I've followed your story from the beginning.

I just have one question -

Have you called the OM and told him that you love your wife and want to repair your marriage and request his help in staying out of contact with your wife?

Obviously your wife in in no great hurry to end things with this OM and I fear the day you find out that she has visited him and a greater act of infidelity has taken place. Not saying that it HAS - just that it might in the future. I would find that a lot harder to forgive.

Morgaine -

I have indeed asked OM to end his contact with my WW. He told me that he didn't call her, she called him. Kind of a slippery "Clintonesque" answer to a very direct request.

Also, #1S got on the phone with him the night last July when he discovered what was going on. #1S calmly (I heard it) asked him to never call his Mom again. For months after that WW was saying that #1S needed to apologize to OM because of his "disrepect" towards him.

So....another call to OM would, IMO, be rather futile.

Thanks anyway.

Georgia