2long,

Sounds like Extreme Home Makeover "MB" Style!!

You guys are pretty talented!!

GG,

Wish I had something helpful to say....instead I'll just continue to pray for you and your family.

Looking forward to the deck photos next month.

I enjoy reading your thread...I bet we all feel like we know you and wish we were your neighbors.

Good Morning all -

Thanks for the kind words from all. 2Long - I waited 24 hours on the water, and treated it as well. I think that with cheap fish a 25% loss rate seems about normal. And...I like the idea of building a town. Is it 2B (hah, I did it!) on the West Coast, East Coast, or somewhere in between?

cc - sorry for the way WH is behaving towards you. Sounds like you're doing well and I hope you enjoy your dd's birthday. How old is she?

I noticed that things seemed extremely quiet at Mrs. Reeses house, so I went over last night. There is no one there, so I'm sure she's gone back to the nursing home.

Getting back to the idea that WW is considering contacting me. I had thought about the same thing, but then the long conversation with #1S on Friday relating how OM is a "non-issue", etc. Does that fit with any kind of script? Seems to me that she is stuck in denial mode. If she wishes to talk with me, I will talk with her. However, it seems that the facade of OM hasn't even begun to crack yet.

GOOD MORNING, MIMI....

Okay, I've got to put the CA'er aside and ask if I'm being snubbed for some reason?

Georgia

Good Morning, Georgia:

I'm sorry I did not get around to posting to you yesterday. I had my own little growth group going yesterday, working on my PERSONAL RECOVERY issues.

Plus, I wish I had something valuable to say. I'm scratching my head over your WW. I'm willing to bet as I said before that she will put off the D as long as possible. That's because she does not want a D. I suspect she's still stuck on trying to convince you that it is OK for her to have YOU and the OM. She is STUBBORN and unfortunately DELUSIONAL about this. It's hard to understand why....

It's interesting though that she is calling YOU in the middle of the night. Isn't this when she is usually talking to him?

Have you thought about you all (sons,DILs, you and wife) meeting with some sort of mediator present that you both could agree on?

FGG:

"I had thought about the same thing, but then the long conversation with #1S on Friday relating how OM is a "non-issue", etc. Does that fit with any kind of script? Seems to me that she is stuck in denial mode. If she wishes to talk with me, I will talk with her. However, it seems that the facade of OM hasn't even begun to crack yet."

Yes it does fit with the WS script. My W said that many times herself (but her facade HAS been cracking for some time now, unlike your WW's). Sadly, you may be right, and she's stuck in that river in Egypt mode, possibly permanently.

-ol' 2long

Hi Mimi.....

I noticed your new tag line on your PERSONAL RECOVERY GOALS, very nice. Just remember, part of humility is never realizing you are humble. In other words, Proverbs 31 is a worthy goal, but you (personally) may never feel you have arrived, but others can look in and see the similarities.

I think you have summarized nicely WW's thoughts at this point. I know that she is telling folks that this is no big deal, it's blown way out of proportion, etc.

I've thought about how to answer your query about the group meeting. I must just lay my thoughts on the line for what it is worth. The thought of joining into a dialog with her with the OM R still going scares me a lot. I don't know how to describe it. I know the pain I've felt from my discourses with her which ended with her telling me how he could be my friend, etc....That is so hard.

If there was some indication she was willing, or ready, to discuss a M without OM, then that would be a risk worth taking. But...it frightens me to jump back into the ring with OM still involved. Is that a CA'er thing, or what?

I'm vexed by memoires of that Sunday afternoon meeting last December (or November) when we all 6 sat in our bonus room and had such a discussion to such a tragic end.

Gotta go....meeting time.

Georgia

Okay, let me try to put some more of my thoughts down (meetings' over).

I suppose it is no secret that I find life much more comfortable without WW constantly spouting the wonders of OM, or even having to constantly be reminded that he is deeply engrained in her heart (so to speak).

From strictly a clinical standpoint, one could argue that a big family / intercessor get together would have nothing to lose if it failed. But, the prospect of bringing the whole family back together only to hear her (again) talk about the wonders of OM in front of the whole family, how there is nothing wrong with this R, etc....Well, the thought of such a scene would not only be devasting to me, but I just can't imagine how the boys would handle that (again).

However, I have indeed noticed the middle of the night calls to ME. Does that mean that she's beginning to talk to him less, or that I was just a passing thought that she acted on while he wasn't available (for some reason)?

I hope that clears up what I am thinking.

Georgia

Remind me what happened at the last meeting. Was there a mediator/intermediator?

What about your therapist or her therapist?

Ok, I'm thinking a FAMILY THERAPY SESSION or TWO....

No, I was referring to the time, right after exposure to #2S/DIL. We all went up to the bonus room and sat down for a long conversation. The boys were very direct and to the point, but kind and non-aggressive. I was very proud of the way they handled themselves. They stated that her actions didn't reflect the things she had taught them, and that Dad's request to end the R with OM certainly seemed reasonable. However, her response was that the God understood her R with OM and various Biblical passages didn't apply to her.

That was when #2S said that the lady in that room certainly wasn't his Mom.

WW has attended 2 sessions with my counselor and declared him a "fool and an idiot", and she never wants to speak to him again. That was right before she declared SH a "charlatan" and not qualified as a counselor (after 2 sessions).

Which would bring us to her counselor. All I know about her is that she is "non-judgemental" and knows about OM buts sees nothing wrong with the R. Possibly due to misinformation by WW (or WW is misinterpreting), but that kind of feed-back doesn't make me want to put my situation into her hands.

I suspect that now that we have another 5 weeks until D-Day, she and I will have another conversation. I continue to hope to get the rest of the family in counseling with my IC, I think he can be of some help to them.

I will wait and see what happens with WW.

Georgia

Would your counselor consider doing a FAMILY SESSION including your WW with the sons and DILs?

That would mean inviting the WW and carrying on the session even if she does not show up...

At least she would have been provided with the option.

The family is meeting at this time on this date....

I had the same thoughts as Mimi about a family session. My gut instinct is that it would end badly, again. That WW would only turn it into another opportunity to convince you all that her relationship with OM is "not all that bad" Of course I would like to tell her that since her conversations with him have caused her to lose the respect of her H, her boys, her own parents, her friends, etc, that OM is, actualy, "all that bad".

My heart just breaks for your boys, and I can't help but wonder if they somehow need to have another chance to sit in a room with her, and get everything out in the open, again.

I am sure it would open up a lot of wounds - again - but maybe if the boys could sit down with both of you - and perhaps a mediator - and have a chance to say "Mom, you say that there is nothing wrong with your R with OM, but look at our Dad. Look at how hurt he is. THAT is what is wrong.
Perhaps they could even ask her, flat out, what are her plans for her future? Is she going to continue to live a life of talking on the phone for hours every night with another womans H? Is that the life she truly desires? Is that the type of life she would have wished for her own boys as well?

One other thing that keeps coming to my mind - the issue of her being "programmed" by OM. I remember you saying that at times you would see her sobbing, with the phone up to her ear, and OM was talking non-stop. Your WW was sobbing, and he just kept talking. I don't know what that is all about - but something is not right there. It makes me think of people who join a cult because the leader was "the best thing that ever happened to them, and he helped them so much".
When your sons also say that this woman is a stranger to them, I continue to wonder if she needs to be "deprogrammed". Have you told your IC about this aspect?

Ugh.

I agree with you WOF! This would moreso be for FAMILY CLOSURE and maybe DEPROGRAMMING. Slim chance as you say that this would budge WW. This being done by WW's therapist might even be best.

Think of this as seeing the FAMILY as the client...

I'ver read the comments of both of you, I just want to think about it. Anything I say will sound so negative, and I realize that. I can't logical argue either way right now, I just want to let this soak in, if I may.

It's hard to describe how I feel. If I can reflect on this with uncharacteristic candor for a moment, I'm not really sure I've got enough wind in my sails to take another run at this any longer.

This is the point that I know Mimi should charge in and tell me to get back up on my horse, but I've got so many of those jousting poles sticking out of my chest already......

Well, anyway. Condemn if you want, but I've got to really give this one some thought before I jump back into that fire.

Georgia

FGG, Please forgive this intrusion. IMO that fire needs to burn a bit longer before you jump in. It's not properly stoked. There is still too much smoke because the flue isn't set right to get a good draft.

Timing is everything and to this lurker on your thread it just does not feel right for another intervention. Not quite yet.

But what do I know....

It is easy to say "If it were me, I would...."

I am really tempted to say I wouldn't talk to her unless she could demonstrate she was repentant, and that contact had ceased. That would take major changes, none of which have even begun.

From where I sit, there is no sign she will ever get it. I believe you talk to people that are willing to listen, I don't think she is willing. I think she would spend the time trying to straighten out GG and show him the error of his ways. I dont' think that would be good for him at all.

I think Lemonman's tag line applies to this one.

SS

Georgia:

I understand how you are feeling about this...

It would be hard to get back up on the horse right now...

I completely understand. Forgive me for my complete candor for a moment here - I am not actually suggesting another confrontation with her as a way to salvage the M. I am suggesting it more as a way to help your boys heal, and also to help you heal.

The timing may not be right - only you will know when it is. But my vision is something like this:
In a neutral place, with a mediator to keep things calm, anyone who wants to be there would have a chance to ask questions. You could say something like "WW, my cell phone rings at all hours of the night, and my password is contantly being change for my email account. I know that is you. Please stop. You have made it quite clear that you plan to continue your R with OM without concern to my feelings. That is fine. It is your choice to make, and I respect that. But I will not continue to be in a M with a W who is in a R with with another married man. That is my choice to make. I desire a committed M with a woman who is completely committed to me. Therefore, I ask you to please stop calling my phone and hanging up. Please leave my private email account alone, and allow me to begin my new life as you all ready have. I am not trying to punish you, or scare you.

Of course, I all ready know, from personal experiance, that she will respond with something like "you just won't get over it will you.....blah blah blah"

But then the boys could have a chance to say their own mind, ask any questions they may have, and even get down to the nitty gritty with stuff like - what are your plans? Will you get a job? Is this man planning to move here? Where will you live? And you coudl be there to answer questions about what will happen to the house - it will be sold - when is the court date, stuff like that. Without you there she would likely say that she "has no idea what Dads plans are."

Right now there is a lot of speculation going on, but no one is coming right out and asking her what she plans to do - if she even has any plans (I suspect that she has no plans yet).

I strongly suspect that she is going to become even more forceful in trying to have contact with you. Perhaps you could at least be the one to choose the time and place, and invite the boys to be involved (with her knowledge of course).

But if you don't feel like the time is right, by all means, don't do it. Go with your gut.

I fully understand your desire to finally just have some peace in your life. A nice, simple, vanilla flavored life.

I wouldn't want to be in the same room with WW's counselor. She sounds very incompetent. Kind of like Sally Athelny's therapist that counselled her to not marry Phil for several years, if your familiar with her recent thread.

GG's WW's therapist must not be a Christian counselor. She just sounds like the type to listen, agree, and tell their client what she wants to hear...and keep those checks rolling in.
What a waste of money.

I would want to know what your son's want to do in regards to another meeting.

I agree with Woman of Faith, seeing this as closure for the FAMILY.

However, I also see what I think is Aphelion's point. This probably should wait for as long as possible as she seems to be feeling some pain from this....prolonging the D, calling you at night when she usually talks with the OM...

Trix:
Maybe her counselor recognized that she had to first establish rapport with her in order for her to listen...

I thought she's had this therapist for quite a while and beyond the initial visits where she would be trying to gain her trust.