FGG:

It's good 2 hear you doing so well, under the circumstances.

I almost posted a 2ple times over the weekend, but truth be told, I felt this sort of "sympathy pain" for what happened in court that hung like a cloud over my weekend, and I couldn't think of anything 2 say.

But I'm glad you can find humor in this. It's important 2 keep laughing!

best,
-ol' 2long

Thanks, 2Long...

There must be some addictive element that Ford has built into T-Birds, because quite honestly I miss it, too. However, I don't think I'm OBSESSED about it.

But....the top down on a cool evening, that 5.0L V-8 that I know is capable of well...going way TOO fast, it was a lot of fun. Kinda mad me feel like a teenager with my 1970 Mach-I all over again.

When all the dust settles and I decide how po' I really am, don't be surprised if I have another convertible. It would be really cruel for me to buy myself a T-Bird, even though I would love to have another one.

That keep showing that infernal SAAB convertible commercial on TV. You know, the one that has the aerospace engineering pedigree. Hummmm....

Georgia

FGG,

ARe we talking about a Mach 1 with the Cleveland engine, Hurst shifter and shall we say "speed to burn"? I had a 71 and man I loved that car. Somehow kids car seats just seemed like a sin in that car. I tooled all over the country in that thing.

I sort of like the idea of the T-bird as a pile of rubble, but it would have been a sin FGG, it really would. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Good idea to have your minister talk to your #1 son. This stuff is really hard on kids.

Hang in there, you have done your best. There is little else you could do.

God Bless,

JL

Sorry, JL, I had the lowly Windsor version, but it was still a fun car with plenty of get-up and go.

Nothing like what you're talking about, though.

Georgia:

If you don't mind answering at this point, what was Steve Harley's explanation for your xW's SYNDROME or whatever since he does not see her as being Bipolar? Why does he think that her BITTERNESS will increase? What makes her different than other WSes if at all?

This would be helpful in understanding this..

Seems like you would want to take a look at your contribution although miniscule..before proceeding with other relationships...

See what I mean?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I don't mind discussing it.

I was amazed at how SH referred to his conversations with WW as though it had just occurred. I don't know if he keeps good notes or transcriptions.

He talked at length at the extremely strong sense of "entitlement" and "self-centeredness" that WW displayed in his conversation with her. He said he couldn't get her to acknowledge her contribution to the pain she was causing to those around her, including her H.

I don't know that there was a "label" that he put on it.

He did say that the amount of time I actually did spend with her & talking to her on the phone (before Plan B) served to rule out her plea of a "neglected wife".

His opinion on the bitterness is that it will be necessary for her to keep up her facade as the "victim", about how she has been wronged.

As for me? Yes, I am very concerned about my role and contribution. My IC told me long ago that I contributed by acquiescing for so long.

LONG LIVE CONFLICT AVOIDERS!!! If that's okay with you....)

I really do seriously think I could use some valuable lessons in proper conflict resolution. Perhaps I have been to quick to bury problems rather then deal with them. You bury enough stuff in the same place and you end up with a whole mountain.

I'm sure there is more...

Georgia

Thanks for answering Georgia...

Sounds like he sees her as having some sort of Personality Disorder....

"My IC told me long ago that I contributed by acquiescing for so long."

I hope you don't feel like some sort of odd ball. At the very least I belong to the same club. IC and MC both told me almost the same thing as yours told you.

Missing EN's were not a factor in FWW's A and LTA. It was more likely the opposite, in fact. I fed her personal issues, including entitlement and self-centeredness so well by CA and over the top sacrifice that I literally trained her to think she could do and have anything she wanted.

Ok, I now know she had FOO, and addictive behaviors, and OCD issues from before we married. But she never had a blank check until she married me.

I feel very bad about my role too. It took me years, but I think even with the absolute best of intentions I created a monster.

With prayers,

Good Morning all –

Amphelion, I can relate to what you are saying. I know I brought this up long ago, but I think that I SPOILED her as a parent can spoil a child. I recall that Mimi (good morning, Mimi) took exception at the time to that idea. She used the argument relating to how good her H treats her, spoils her so to speak. However, I think the fallacy of that argument (IMHO) is that people are different and respond differently when exposed to the same treatment.

Whereas some (like Mimi) can say “thank you” and show their H’s how much they appreciate the royal treatment, there may be others who begin to believe themselves entitled to such treatment.

And, my guilt in that area (trying to avoid WOF’s “survivors guilt” syndrome) is that xW didn’t ASK to be treated that way, it’s just one of the ways that I expressed and demonstrated love to her. I honestly believe now that if somehow she had had to work full-time, clean the house, cook, etc., then perhaps the “good things” and “good times” were have meant more to her. Instead, it was like the extraordinary became the routine, and expected to be so.

So what does this mean to me as relate to future relationships? Actually, I’m not sure. As I said, I believe different people respond differently under the same circumstances.

However, if you couple this with a CA’er mentality, then the following theorem applies:

DOTING HUSBAND + CONFLICT AVOIDER = DOORMAT

Anyway, that’s the hypothesis that I’m putting forward.

During court she handed me a stack of medical receipts that she had been holding onto (I don’t know why). She had told me right after the LS that she wasn’t going to give me any receipts for medical costs. I guess she really meant it. Anyway, I added them all up last night. They totaled $783.00 for prescriptions and doctor co-pays dating back to March. Add that to the first month’s alimony ($1,250) and the ½ house payments and utilities that I have to pay until the house is sold and I owe her $2800 by December 1. Ouch!!

I was very pleased that last night my Mom called and told me she had just called xMIL. I have been hoping that they would maintain their relationship as they’ve all been good friends in the past. She called to tell her she was sorry to hear that she was ill and that she hoped the treatment would go well and so forth.

After my work out last night I stayed home and worked on financial stuff for most of the evening trying to get a handle on my finances as I go forward and set up a budget.

Afterwards, I heated some of my homemade chili and watched “Cold Mountain” on DVD. Very pleasant evening, Jeb enjoyed snoozing in my lap (after the chili).

Tonight is pottery after another quick work out at the Y.

Georgia

Hey, GG. I haven't been following your thread and just saw tonight that your divorce is final.

Thinking of you...

Good Morning all -

Thanks, SM05, for the concern. I know that you, too, are going through a very difficult time.

This divorce thing is very depressing, actually. I'm finding that Plan B had a mental "safety net". Now that I'm divorced, the finality of it all just seems so...well, final. I can see now the importance of assuring, really assuring, that the BS has done everything they can to save the marriage before divorcing. I would hate to be in this situation with a hasty decision that hadn't been carefully considered and all other options evaluated.

Last night pottery was canceled due to the Thanksgiving week. After my work out at the Y, I decided to take myself to dinner. So I went out for a nice steak (one of those family steak places) and just relaxed and read while enjoying dinner. It was actually kind of nice and peaceful, I enjoyed it.

Tomorrow my parents and #2S/DIL are going out for a Thanksgiving lunch. #2S/DIL are going to her parents house for dinner tomorrow night.

#1S/DIL are leaving tonight to drive to my xIL's house for Thanksgiving. xW will be there as well, should make for some interesting dinner conversation. In the past, #1S/DIL have canceled trips to IL's house if they knew xW was going to be there. Sad..

I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving.

Georgia

I am thankful that I have had the support & friendship of each of you through this tumultuous year.

Happy Thanksgiving to each of you.

Georgia

Dear Georgia -

I've followed this thread since the day it began. I'm sorry that your situation ended the way it did.

I want you to know that your post of yesterday morning (re: spoiling and entitlement) hit me like a dash of cold water. Our situations aren't exactly alike, but suffice it to say that I have the most wonderful husband in the world that loves me dearly and dotes on me. One could say he spoils me with little attentions and favors.

I don't appreciate him the way I should and you might say I am bordering on that "entitlement" that you speak of.

I'm ashamed and I'm changing my ways to make sure that he knows he is loved and appreciated.

Thank you for making a difference in my marriage.

~Morgaine~

Happy thanksgiving GG. You'll be in my prayers.

We don't have thanksgiving as such around here. But I give thanks every day. I really feel fortunate, so I do give thanks for all the good things and for the opportunities to learn or change which the "bad" things teach.

I will be going to the seaside with my sister for a couple of days so I won't be able to keep in touch that much.

Happy Thanksgiving!

God be with you - may he leave peace in your heart.

SS

Good Morning friends….

I hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving and enjoyed some time away from work. I missed you all.

The weekend went by really quickly. For the first time ever in my life, I was one of those 5:00 AM folks at Wal-Mart on Friday morning. Not one of my favorite activities.

I haven’t heard from #1S since they got back from xIL’s house. I did, however, get an e-mail from x FIL urging me to go to counseling to get my family back together. I almost…almost…got angry and replied with things that I shouldn’t. But, I resisted the urge and decided to ignore it instead. His D, even though now single, is still having an affair (maybe only emotional, but it’s still an affair) with a married man. I now label him a “home wrecker” and suspect that she’s not too far behind from getting the same label. I know that he meant well with his e-mail to me, but it just really didn’t sit too well with me.

I’m still fighting with that stupid tape playing in my mind. I met with IC Wednesday and he talked with me about xW’s need to say and believe whatever was necessary to justify her actions in her own mind. Logically, I know that he’s right. But her words, as well as her attorney’s words, still haunt me. I was awake until about 3:00 AM this morning trying to quit thinking about all of that.

Saturday afternoon I was asleep on my deck (nothing like sleeping while surrounded with the sound of water) and Jeb started barking. Mrs. Reese and her D were next door. She brought her home to stay just for the evening. She looked really good and was walking quite well. I hope that they work out some arrangement for her to move back home, she would be much happier.

Jeb and I went to the park yesterday afternoon. He loves going to the park. I was hunting pine cones to put in my fireplace. I’ve cleaned the fireplace in my living room (I have 3 f.p.’s) and painted the grate. I’m going to stack pinecones in there and intersperse those tiny red lights to kind of simulate a flame as part of my Christmas decoration. My fireplaces are those really small coal burning fireplaces. (I AM NOT Martha Stewart, I promise!).

This is the week that I register for my horticulture class. I’m getting quite excited about that and looking forward to learning some new things. The pond business idea is still germinating in my mind.

Georgia

Hi FGG:

Glad you had a mostly good weekend. I think you're doing the right thing by not responding 2 xFIL's email. Perhaps think of it as a corrolary 2 plan B, which your xW still "needs" in order 2 bottom out (assuming she does at some point).

We've got those dinky coal fireplaces 2 (6 of them!), but ours aren't useable, unless we completely rebuild the chimneys (estimated at 50-75K last time I checked). I'd probably consider some sort of "fake" fireplace "upgrade" myself, if there were something that fit and looked Victorian, but I've never seen anything like that.

Pine cones and lights sounds like a neat alternative! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

Hi 2Long...fellow ol' house aficinado...

I've found a web site for an outfit in England that sells "gas coals" kinda like gas logs, but it looks like baskets of coal and sized for little f/p's like ours.

I think they sell for about $500 - $1,000 depending on how fancy you want them to be. I also don't remember if they have to be vented or not.

When I redo my bedroom (planned for early '06), I may try to get that fireplace working and install something like that to add some realism.

Georgia

Good Morning, Georgia:

I guess you suspect that it is hard for me to relate to your situation now. You are at a place that I have never been...in a very different world than I live in right now....

However, I continue to feel very sad for you...

This morning...I'm not understanding your anger at your xFIL...Your X is his daughter and he comes from the "old school" whereby he expects YOU to FIX this...being that your ARE/WERE her husband..He continues to see you as being HER HUSBAND regardless of what the court system says...OLD SCHOOL STUFF..Hasn't he been married FOREVER??

Another thing...What is HAUNTING you, in particular, about what was said in the courtroom? I still say.. something must have happened to your X..She seems to have changed for some reason..from the person that she was.. to this...Do you buy that she was always like this? She played a major role in raising some WONDERFUL YOUNG MEN...

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME....

Did Steve H. ever speak to you about YOUR CONTRIBUTION to the marital problems? Did he ever talk in terms of your XW's ENs or did he say that your situation did not fit with the MB theories... The reason I ask this is not to point the finger at you. It seems that this analysis might be most helpful in allowing you to move on...focusing on what YOU DID AND CAN DO DIFFERENTLY..

I guess I'm not understanding how CONFLICT AVOIDANCE is the MAJOR ISSUE here...

Is your X trying to tell us something that we haven't heard? Is there a message here?

MAYBE NOT...

She keeps holding a place in my heart as you know...she seems to be crying out for something...IN A HURTFUL, DAMAGING WAY but still CRYING OUT...

This is why I have been holding back..

This is probably not being helpful to you at all...

Sorry, Georgia..I do care...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />