For background, please see (from old board):
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=037082

This is the second time I am trying this. Thought I would start a new thread, seeing I can't access/post in the old one (although I can SEE it, consult it, but can't post in it!).

Let's call this a test, before I write and lose everything again.

Okay, your test is working. I can see ya even though the board de-logs me every time I look at a post.

How's it going?
Mulan

New thread seems to have worked.

So, this is my update. I have surprised myself and have actually managed to be alone with the boys for almost 3 weeks (while H away on business, not with OW) while hanging over my head is the possibility that on H's return, he may want to move out.

I am trying really hard to stay positive and THINK that H will not move out, until he does, otherwise, it creatse knots in my stomach. I managed to surround myself with close friends, and I also exposed our situation to a couple of more friends. This gives me someone to talk with honestly about what I am going through.

Unfortunately, the general feeling among our friends is not good. So, I do feel it is a one-man battle for my M.

I intend to keep trying to do PLAN A (avoiding LBs, etc.) even though I am not sure I am doing this right. One of the biggest LBs/frustrations is my H feeling that I don't accept/understand his "love" for the OW and how he cannot let go of her.

I am trying to take one day at a time, and avoid the cliche: you create what you most fear, but I go there sometimes when I attempt to be prepared for the worst, thinking it will help HA!

Anyway, I am sure glad the forum is back. It gives me somewhere to go, where people, before calling it quits, are working/suffering hard to give M their best shot.

I seem to may want M to work, I don't seem to have what it takes. I don't seem to learn fast enough, do things properly, while H is slowly but surely getting "fixed" with the idea of separating. If before Xmas this was a "far out" idea, 3 months later it's reality, and I can't seem to get a grip on it - it feels too unreal, and when I will wake up it will be too late. I feel I am in a fog. How sad.

I feel the need to stay hopeful, or else I get depressed, and am not able to function. It doesn't seem like a lot to do, but it is for me. The double role, how I really feel inside (like [censored]) and how I need to appear on the outside, so as to not push H further away and closer to OW is really hard. Trying to keep busy and not think so much is how I am trying to do it.

Anyway, you all have given a lot of good advice. I keep re-reading it and hopefully things will sink in, and I will have the guts to do some of the things you are all suggesting, that I can't see myself doing and doing well.

I am really trying not to see myself as a lost case.

Hello again,

If you are following my story, I would like some advice.

My H is coming back from a business trip (3 weeks) and I am not sure whether I should bring up a R discussion or wait for him to. I think if he had anything different to tell me, I should wait for him to bring it up. Otherwise, I will just assume his intention is still to eventually leave, and that I already know.

I am not ready for Plan B. I am assuming here that he is still not seeing things clearly. Bringing up a discussion to rehash things I think would be useless and would be a major LB. Until he has moved out (I expect planning to move out will be a reality check for him, because financially we can't afford it), I would like to work on the premise that he will not move out, and work from that perspective. Even though it feels I am in denial doing so, I think I can work a better Plan A. Otherwise, I don't feel I am much fun to live with. The real challenge for me will be to know that on the side, for now, H is seeing the OW and wanting to leave, and act as if....

I am also reading Divorce Busting and trying to get some ideas for specific things to try and do. My biggest challenge is how not to contribute to give H excuses to want to leave, and trying to change myself for the better ex. begin to stop doing a lot of the things H takes for granted and think a bit more about myself, since he is not available anyway right now, I intend to try and enjoy my friends' companionship.

I don't think I will be exposing more than I have. I will try to be "lovingly" distant, and not be clingy, needy, etc.

Wish me good luck. You see I need to talk to myself more. Right now I am anticipating a storm next week. Why? There may not be one, and here I would be getting myself all anxious about it thinking that there would be one, or at least prepare myself for one (trying to prepare for the worse) when in reality I may only be contributing to rerassuring that a storm does happen - you see how my mind works!) Am I on the wrong track?

Bumping up.

third try!

My H will be back in 2 days (has been away for 3 weeks on business trip). I am a little anxious on how things will be. I would be dying to ask the question if he had time to think and was he still moving out? BUt I will not ask directly, I will wait until conversation goes there. I am not eager to hear the reply, because I don't know what to say if he says YES I intend to move. What else have I left to try. OK go ahead and leave, and I would prepare a PLAN B as part of the arrangements.

Our problem rigth now is that financially we cannot affort a second small appt. for him to go stay, and need to share the house while waiting to find accommodation solutions.

Should I PLAN A, even though he plans to move out. This will be hard, because at the same time he feels he can meet the OW while waiting for accomm. solutions.

I know that somehow it's better that H be in the house, but sometimes, like under these circumstances, it may not be a good idea. Anyway, it makes PLAN A even more difficult.

Hi LM

Plan A does NOT mean 'no R talk'. It means avoiding LBs, and (aditionally) a recognition of the likely inability of a foggy active WS or new FWS to be able to discuss such rationally.

looking back the only R talk that was any use during the A and early withdrwawal was policing my NC boundary.

Almost everything Squid told me of her opinion back then is completely obsolete now.

All the 'ILYBINILWY' and 'OP is my friend,you;d like them' horseapples doesn't do anything but make BS sad and angry and encourages LBs.

But if you ar eprepared that your WS is barely capable of rational thought right now, and you are confident you can remain calm, I see no reason not to have SOME R discussion.

Read up on Plan A again. Keep doing so.

My own Squid became less willing to talk R BUT FAR more rational in te htalks we had as withdrawal and plan A progressed.

You don;t want to hear this but time is an important dimension to this plan A lark !

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

all blessings

GRRRHHHH,

I had an update which was lost.

A quick summary:
H coming back today
We had an honest discussion over phone re A
I admitted that ending A would not be easy and that should there could be relapsed and that we would handle them when they happened
I was prepared to give him "space" to end A particularly if working on a special project with OW (some will say this is enabling - but at this time I don't feel I have a choice - I need to take risk)
In the meantime, I would focus on myself: ex. learn to be less taken for granted (meaning he would be taking over certain things like the reality of our financial situation); I would refuse less offers made by friends to go out.

I don't feel needy, clingy towards him at this time.

I have enjoyed the company of our mutual friends very much and intend to pursue that route. Ex. take a few days and stay with my girlfriend while H takes care of house and kids. Over the past few weeks I have had a chance to reconnect with several friends and have enjoyed very much, and I intend to pursue this route.

I also want to thank all of you for being there. I don't know all of you, I am visual, and since I can't see you, I even get some of you confused, but the bottom line, you have all been there for me and you have become my MB family. Somewhere I can turn to, and that means a lot to me.

Now, I don't know if there time limitations to our posting, I do so right away. Don't want to lose the post again.

You are all in my heart.

I have a question for you all.

My H's A is with a co-worker (at my boys' school!). I have not been involved with the school so far ex. volunteering. My H suppposedly was "giving" enough of his time with his "resource role".

I am now wondering if I should be more "present" in that world. Get to know the people/teachers, have the courage to confront the OW on occasion, rather than avoid her for fear of the pain. Would I be a masochist by considering this? My idea is that if I hold my head up OW's comfort level may be effect. OW no longer working in "void". Needs to face H's wife - apparently, she feels very guilty over what getting involved with H (apparently years ago, the roles were reversed in her life and she was me).

Anyway, it's just a thought. I don't know if I have the courage to do this. But I figured the OW would actually need to see H interacting with me (but then I need to see him interacting with her!). Raising level of uncomfort for everybody. May not be soo bad if I could take it!

Your thoughts!

bumped for comments, if any.

Hi Luna,

You asked for advice about whether to be involved more in your husband's work world. Looking over your former posts, it seems work is a big and an important part of your H life. So I say--you definitely should be more involved.

As to plan A, I would say focus not only on avoiding LBs but also on meeting his EN. Why is your H going to be home with the kids alone? The one place you can beat OW out of the water is your family life. Plan family events, do things together that include the four of you. Ramp up the importance of the family!!

Also, in your ealier post you mention him getting upset when you deny "his love for OW"--if he brings this up again--DONT deny the feelings. Admit that he has had needs that you have not met in the past--admit that it must have felt good for him to finally have someone meet those needs. But then also say how you can and want to meet those needs. THe OW is not the only way to have them met. Plus you have all of the other things you are giving him that she never will be able to!

The point is to remove the OW from the issue. It's not about her it's about his needs. His brain associates the good feelings he has had with her, but as you begin to fulfill those needs he will reassociate the feelings with you. Everytime he tries to bring her in the picture--move the focus back to him and his needs. Then, give specific examples of how you can meet them.

As to the project with the OW, it should be a NO GO! You cannot fix your marriage while he is spending time with her. Suggest he withdraw from the project or that she does.

And then, you need to be involved as much as possible with his work. If he gets kudos in that area of his life--then you need to be present so that the good feelings are associate with YOU. Share in his work, get him to talk about it. I bet that is a big part of what attracts him to OW. Plus, it will show him that you are willing to change and meet his needs so that he can fell less like he is giving up a chance to feel loved when giving up OW.


Good luck. Keep posting. I think there are a lot of bugs in this new board preventing people from posting (it took me three times to get this up!)

Something is up with the new board. It took many tries to get to post, and I am not sure what I have done differently now, but it worked!

An update.

On MOnday H came back home (after being away for 3 wks) and I was able to be cheerful, etc. etc. no LBs.

Last night however, it was different. During the day yesterday I decided to write H a letter to be more or less honest about the situation, based loosely on PLAN B letter without it being one, that is, I acknowledged both of us neglecting our needs, and therefore his need to go elsewhere. I apologized for my part. Confirmed him that I loved him and thought that with some help we could get past this crisis. Acknowledged that his present position: ie loved OW and wanted to separate, and acknowledged that to let OW go would be difficult (ex. relapsed could be expected and worked through). Left it open for further discussion. I feel good about putting in writing the fact that the situation is not necessarily a "total loss" if he is willing to put the effort and willingness to go forward. I feel that I don't have anything else to add. The door is open: he can come in or go out.

However, unfortunately, the past 3 weeks I have been pushing myself, and last night, I had to let things go and just go to sleep and let H and boys handle the evening (meals, homework, etc.). I felt bad. I have lost some weight (which H noticed). I also think it was a reality check for H (hadn't realized until last night how hard it has been on me), and willing to take "over" while I rest up, etc.

H's fantasyland is having a few reality checks: I am now aware of OW, and I think it makes their meetings a little less fun (knowing that I know), more friends are aware of the situation, financially things are not looking up - has to admit that $$ are just not there to get a "second place" for him to "host" because apparently H doesn't want to necessarily live with OW (for now anyway). His egostical phase may be starting to have some holes as he is starting to see some of the consequences. His not very proud.

This morning, I am not sure why, maybe because of taking the time to write the letter, making my position to H clearer, I am feeling somewhat detached. I feel like taking life as it comes day by day, and whatever happens I will deal with it the best way I can. I do like this feeling - my expectations have gone way down, and it's probably better that way. Otherwise, life was becoming too stressful and not able to function at all. It this "acceptance"? Maybe.

If H makes threats that "he can always just leave", well, so be it.

Will keep you informed.

Thanks for being there everybody.

I hope the new forum gets some of the bugs removed. Right now at times it is a true test of our patience!

I would really like some feedback.

I don't feel normal with this "detached" feeling I am feeling right now. Is this because I wrote a letter to H and feel like I am being more honest with H as far as what some of the consequences are (like how hurtful all of this is to me) He was actually thinking that, yes, things will be chummy, and wife is moving on. NOT! And the fact that I have actually made it clear that staying in M is a "real" choice for him, as opposed to his "dealbreaker" "no going back" attitude he had in justifying and continuing A.

Anyway, I had a great lunch with a friend today, and basically am enjoying discovering/getting to know some of our family friends better, in the meantime.....

It must be the rollercoaster effect, and I may be just in a high..... because yesterday afternoon I was at such a low, I needed to call a "suicide" hotline because I was feeling so bad, just to talk enough to get myself out of the mood! This is so totally unreal I cannot believe it!

Anyway, at this point, a "life" sign from out there would be appreciated, or I'll start to think that you are.... I don't know what - MAD at me! or it may be just our new forum. Had MAJOR problems posting this morning.

I am imagining you all saying: let her ride her ride, she doesn't get it, let her learn from it, not worth the effort (I know it's not true!). We all do have lives to live, n'est-ce pas. Oh, by the way. I may write in English, but in my personal life, FRENCH is the language, and is typical of where I live. So, guess where I live? and I do not live in Europe? and I don't live in the US. So, if I need to write letters to my H, I need to think in English, and translate in French! and I personally was born in Italy.
Go ahead..... all of you.... any guesses?

Salut Luna!

Funny, we have something in common--in my personal life the language is French. (In fact, I am really beginning to wonder if you might live the same place I do??)

Is it an Island?

Ahuman:

No!

Okay, so we don't live in the same place. Is it Guyane?

quebec?

Yes, I think you must be from Quebec or Montreal also - somewhere in French Canada. Oui?

Anyway - what, exactly, would you like to see happen with your marriage? You are just drifting - what is it that YOU want?

Mulan

Dear Mulan,

Would you please tell me: are you choosing to stay with WH in spite of his "inappropriate friendships"? How do you do it? How long have you been doing it? Is there a "silent" understanding between you and WH to allow this?

Now, to your question to me. What I want I can't have! So I don't ask myself the question. I would ask myself more: what am I prepared to settle for at this point, given the circumstances? Give my 'approval' to WH (who is in fogland) what he thinks he wants right now, a separation, or hold off with my position: assure him that I am ready to work it out between us (because WH is not sure I would want him back, or ever forgive him). Even if he chooses to give up OW to work it out with me, it may not work out afterall, because, to be honest, I cannot guarantee that I can get past this (and WH knows this, too).

I know I cannot stop him from walking out the door (and H may eventually choose to take this route).

In the meantime, life must go on. I need to work, I need to take care of my boys, and I need to be functional, while being in limbo. It's the "being limbo" part that I am having trouble handling. Humans do not have switch buttons - I need to be able to stick it out for awhile because in the grand scheme of life 6 months to a year is not that long, except while you are in it. I don't know what H is thinking right now. He wants the OW, too scared to go "off" right now unless being "civil" about it with me, may need to choose to do without being "civil" about and walk out the door (I can't stop him), but right now he is more or less confused, like I am!

So, what to do with two confused people? We may deserve each other!

I am choosing to reduce my objectives for now to simply providing for the "basic needs" - be sure a get enough sleep (so I am seeing a doc to see if I can get some medication temporarily to help me make sure I get enough sleep - and I worry about getting hooked on pills by doing this) so I can work so can make enough money to get food on the table and clothes on our backs - I would not want to be in H's shoes - to get what he thinks he wants - he needs to accept that he is choosing to hurt people he cares about, hence, the guilt trip - which is not something to be proud of, nor very pleasant to live through.

I may be in denial. I would like to think that this is all a bad dream - but I know better.

So, confused as I am, I am just taking it one day at a time, getting as much support from my friends as I can (without being a burden to them). You never know where life takes you - I never thought I would end up calling a "suicide" line just to help me talk my way out of the seconds that felt hours where I did not want to live because the pain was too much to bear.

This experience will either help me to be stronger in life, or it will break my spirit, and right now, I really don't know which way it's going!

Let me again tell you how much it has meant to me to be able to come to this board and "vent" more or less, and be allowed not to make sense, I feel has helped me (or maybe not!) I don't know and I don't care right now. Keep telling me how confused you are finding me - I need to have people tell me this, maybe - I need to consider what you are all saying or thinking of the situation and it maybe better that you don't really know us - I know that some of the things you are saying may one day serve me (or confuse me more!)

Sorry, Mulan, I can actually see you pulling your hairs out in total frustration, telling yourself: why doesn't she get it! I know I am not "making your day!".

Until next time (MAYBE.. HA HA - might as well laugh about it!). GOD the anxiety of it all is getting to me, and I do feel sorry for you all having to read me.

YES, QUEBEC IT IS (MONTREAL at that, Mulan).

I lost my last update, so, before trying again, this is a test.

I lost my update again.

So this is the third (and highly deluded update).

The weekend was a quiet one. No R discussions with H. Just did what needed to be done: work the yard, prepare a terrific supper, etc. My position made clear to H. Prepared to work on M, if he ends R with OW. He must be evaluating situation? I hope so. Is family/M worth giving up R with OW? More importantly, can he do it now even if he wanted to - addiction element - not sure of himself. I really have no idea of R with OW. I know she has left 27 year marriage over A. H may feel pressured to leave M as well as proof of his love for her. They may just be buying time and planning and preparing for the future, but since I don't know, I stop myself from assuming anything and ACT AS IF.... until.

I am trying to put energy in good PLAN A. Will see doc next week for some help with anxiety and sleepless nights - temporary fix.

This "loving" at a distant, detached feeling, feels more like I may be in denial. After all, H has said he intended to leave!?

Anyway, like all of you, we are trying to do the best we can with our particular situations - one thing is clear - life is not a fairytale afterall.

Take care everybody until next time.