Hi Luna!

I have taken an unexpected spell from the board to accomodate visiting family and am just checking in on you.

I am sad to see that nothing has really changed over the past couple of weeks.

How are you today?

AHUMAN, thanks for checking in with me.

Actually, this morning I am not doing so well at all.

WH was possibly coming back very late yesterday evening, and didn't, and if not, he would have gotten in touch with me, and didn't. So, my imagination doesn't have to go far to imagine various scenarios.

The worse part in these situations is that sometimes there could be a very simple explanation, but BS all go (at least me) for the worst scenarios and manage to sky rocket the anxiety level, and right now I am not quite sure on how to 'calm myself down'.

I know it's really bad, because it is at these moments that I question whether life is really worth living, and I have never had to struggle with suicidal thoughts before. This kind of gut-wrenching pain is really really really new to me, and it is a major challenge that I can't say with certainty I can overcome, I just hope I can.

I am sorry for being so honest. It is where I am at this very moment. I am waiting for it to pass.

I want to be strong, and I think I am most of the time, but don't realize how fragile I can also be, how quickly I can go from one to the other. This is really scaring me to the point of trembling.

I find this to be a real "dark" posting, but I can't be ashamed of top of everything about how I feel. It will pass, because I believe that more or less most of you have gone through moments like these. God they're hard to live. It really feels like quicksand under your feet.

Please let me know if this is normal. How have some of you handled these moments?

Luna, did you read BobPure's thread about a man who hanged himself recently? His W was having an affair, and instead of taking any action at all, he ended up hanging himself because the pain of what he tolerated was well beyond what he could endure.

I am very concerned that your lack of action has placed you in a situation where you have inadvertantly volunteered for more than you can realistically endure? I have to confess that it would be well beyond my own endurance and I have had to endure the death of my own child. I could not endure what you are living with, though.

Do you have a counselor that you can call today and discuss this with, Luna? I am very worried about you.

Melodylane,

I am worried too. Yes, I do remember reading Bob's thread. It's scary. I see my IC on Tuesday night.

I have never felt this way. I need and want to detach but somehow I obsess about it. I have to be honest, I really don't feel like living anymore, and it scares me. Everything is grey. I try and tell myself that others get through it, that's how I am trying to deal with it. But you are right, because there is little 'action' involved, it hits really hard.

I am sorry to hear about the death of your child. That, to me, is at the top of the list!

I am trying to breath through it, talk to myself, read the board, post, etc. What I have is a broken heart of the worst kind. I see how people are tempted to turn to 'anything' to alleviate/numb the pain.

And I have to be honest that it's only you here at the board that are aware of my most "down" moments. My friends worry about me, but I don't want them to worry, so I basically don't tell them how hard this really is.

One thing I tell myself to help me is that it only lasts "moments", so if I can just get passed the "moment" I will be OK.

I am tempted to not be honest here, too, so that you all don't worry about me. So, I am sorry for that. But, I just need this pain inside to have a "voice" somewhere, and you at the board are the chosen ones, unfortunately.

The tears are coming; it's a good sign.

You are helping me by just being there.

Thanks.

Luna,
many of us probably read your thread and are worried about you.

How long has this been going? As far as I can remember your d day was in october 04? Is that right?
Melody is right, you cannot go on like this... Nothing has changed in your situation, the A is still going strong .

Dr. Harley specifically says that plan A should not last for more than "weeks" for women. Plan B should then follow BECAUSE IT PROTECTS YOU.

Please re read the thread from the beginning and re read Dr. Harley's book.

Luna I have been thru that, and I did cry everyday for a long time during plan B, but at least I COULD CRY and it was a relief and now after 5 months I am doing much better. I still think everyday and all the time about WH and the A but I am not in unbearable pain and can think better and plan the futur, hopefully with H. But that is yet to be seen.

Plan B is your best plan. YOu have not been able to carry out any plan so far. Having a plan is VERY IMPORTANT.

Please help yourself.

Luna, choosing to be a victim so that you can avoid conflict comes at a very high price, as you are seeing now. Conflict avoidance never works in the long run, it always comes to a head. Either on your terms or someone else's. Can you imagine living this way for several more months and years until the spirit moves your H to end his current affair? As it is, you have ceded complete control of your life over to a man who has lost his bearings. Do you feel you are in good hands?

Does Dr Harley know you are suicidal, Luna? Does your IC know this?

Luna - I know we have been telling you NOT to help your WH with his separation plans.

But that is NOT the same as just sitting there and taking everything he is dishing out, and becoming suicidal as your husband flaunts his affair in public and throws it in your face every chance he gets.

As Dr. Phil would say: "Why does HE get to make the choice?"

Okay. You did good by not helping WH ease into a separation.

Now it's time for the next step.

This man is treating you and your family like garbage. You are miserable to the point of suicide.

Once any BS gets to that point, it's time for Plan B.

Take control. Your husband will go on like this forever, whether he actually moves out or not.

Take control. Stop waiting for HIM to do something. Luna, he's not going to do anything but sit between two women just like he is now.

TAKE CONTROL.

PLAN B.

Mulan

Thanks for your replies. I am worried about myself, too. I think I will be OK until my next appointment with IC. But, these "dark" thoughts do scare me.

I agree, by deciding to wait-out, I have basically given WS CONTROL.

But, I didn't think I was choosing to be a victim. I thought my pain was normal considering situation. Knowing that WS is choosing to have an A and to be with OW is very very painful. I thought it was a matter of how to best deal with pain. I thought it had more to do with how I react to it that I need to change and take control of. I thought the control came from learning to react differently to the situation, like to not be surprised that contact continues with OW if your WS is having an A.

I don't understand the 'conflict-avoiding' part. I have told WS that I do not find A acceptable, but I obviously can't do anything to stop him (but I could ask him to leave!). I have decided to wait it out and see if WS does leave, and if not, he needs to stop A. I guess this is the part I need to reconsider. Do I have what it takes to wait-it out? It is choosing a "passive role" and it's hard to do.

At the same time, I need to be honest. I can't see myself having the strength right now to do a PLAN B. If I can't see myself doing it, I don't know if it's a good idea to try it.

So, for now, I see my challenge as being how to best cope with the pain in a healthy way. It's just a really really bad day. It's the "first timers": when I see WS tonight, it will be the first time knowing with greater certainty that since the last time I saw him WS has been with OW. I am not surprised, it just hurts like hell. I am also experiencing a lot of anxiety, and if I continue with my thoughts and ask myself why? It's because I fear and imagine that as the days go by, with each additional encounter WS and OW have, they are solidifying their A/R and plans for the future. That's what I think is at the bottom of all this 'tension' in me. That's what is really bothering me, worrying me. Now, I should ask and answer some "what if.." questions and hopefully that will help to defuse some of my anxiety.

Thanks for being there, I think I feeling a little better.
I will go out and take a walk in the sunshine, that should make me feel even better.

I don't want to minimize your pain. I can't imagine completely how it must feel. I recall having the pit a number of times and for long periods. I remember having my feet, lips and the tips of my fingers go numb. Never did figure that one out.

I also remember feeling that "energy blackhole"--where you ask yourself what's the purpose? why keep going? where you can't really see yourself in the future.

But then, you must remember your own value. Reach down inside yourself--where YOU value YOU.

You keep talking as if all of the world will end if WH leaves. As if there is no future. As if, but for WH your OWN LIFE has no value.

But this is pure hogwash. He, this man, He does not define who you are. You have plenty of reasons to keep going in your life for your own reasons. And it is as simple as that.

You can't give up your life and all of the good things that you have to offer the world and to your boys and to your friends. You are a mom, a daughter, and a friend to many people. You have many excellent days to come.

This A is rejection in his most fundamental sense, so what you are feeling is normal. But you cannot let him define you--let this A define you by only reacting to what the A does. Don't let it make you who you are.

Recognize your value Luna. Look to the people who love you. Learn to love yourself. Close the door on this pain. Turn away from it, so that you can still open the door again if a healthy man returns.

"I don't understand the 'conflict-avoiding' part. I have told WS that I do not find A acceptable, but I obviously can't do anything to stop him (but I could ask him to leave!). "


This is difficult. I see what you mean in wanting HIM to make the move. But it seems to me there should still be a standard, you both have control over the situation. Otherwise, its as if you are just avoiding the conflict. Avoiding the issue. But the truth is--he is going to have to make up his mind one day. He can't go on having you both forever.

So, why can't you set a Date Boudary?

Give him a date. Tell him, he has to stop seeing her or move out by:_____.

I recall earlier you told me that the natural day for you to stop Plan A (or maybe it wast to insist he no longer see her, I can't remember)--anyway you posted to me that that day was the end of the school year.

When does the school year end?

Luna, conflict avoiding means doing literally nothing to help end the affair or protect yourself from his destructive behavior. It means sitting by idly while he has an affair and rubs your nose in it. That is conflict avoiding.

And you have no one to blame but yourself for allowing this to continue since you have done nothing to stop it. So, that is why I say you are not a victim, but a volunteer. You have volunteered for this.

You would rather be suicidal than do hard or difficult things. You are helping him destroy you. And I am sure that most of your depression comes from the despair and hopelessness that you daily subject yourself to by refusing to lift a finger to help yourself. I can only imagine the inner rage you have at yourself. And the hopelessness to know that you can't even count on yourself to help you when you need it the most.

Luna, you think its hard to live without him? [ala Plan B] Can it get any harder than the way you feel now; suicidal? Did you notice that you are suicidal living with him? And it won't get any better on its own. The longer you allow this to go on, the worse it will get.

lunamare,

I've been catching up a bit on your situation. I'm so sorry that you are going through all this.

Not only did you trust your WH completely, you've also given up a lot to be living in a country that is foreign to you --- that makes the pain even more excruciating.

Stop hoping that your WH is going to help you glue the pieces your shattered soul together. He won't. You have to do it yourself. First work on you, getting your life back...then you can try to save your marriage.

Update.

Thanks for the replies.

To Ahuman:
quote:------------------------------------------------
I recall having the pit a number of times and for long periods. I remember having my feet, lips and the tips of my fingers go numb. Never did figure that one out.

I also remember feeling that "energy blackhole"--where you ask yourself what's the purpose? why keep going? where you can't really see yourself in the future.
----------------------------------------------------------
I am there, in that sort of pain, and seem to be stuck in it.

quote:----------------------------------------------------
This A is rejection in his most fundamental sense, so what you are feeling is normal. But you cannot let him define you--let this A define you by only reacting to what the A does. Don't let it make you who you are.
Recognize your value Luna. Look to the people who love you. Learn to love yourself. Close the door on this pain. Turn away from it, so that you can still open the door again if a healthy man returns.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Ahuman, I would like to "close the door on this pain" so that I don't personalize the "rejection" of the A during this period, but am having a lot of trouble doing it.

The end of the school year is the end of June.

To Melodylane:
quote---------------------------------------------------
Luna, conflict avoiding means doing literally nothing to help end the affair or protect yourself from his destructive behavior. It means sitting by idly while he has an affair and rubs your nose in it. That is conflict avoiding.

And you have no one to blame but yourself for allowing this to continue since you have done nothing to stop it. So, that is why I say you are not a victim, but a volunteer. You have volunteered for this.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I thought in PLAN A BS does 'volunteer' to live with unavailability of WS, and even be subjected to "rejection". I can't stop the affair. WS needs to move out if he can't let go of OW. I don't expect to live this way indefinitely. I just can't seem to find ways to not let A touch me so deeply during this 'waiting' phase.

quote:---------------------------------------------------
You would rather be suicidal than do hard or difficult things. You are helping him destroy you. And I am sure that most of your depression comes from the despair and hopelessness that you daily subject yourself to by refusing to lift a finger to help yourself. I can only imagine the inner rage you have at yourself. And the hopelessness to know that you can't even count on yourself to help you when you need it the most.
-----------------------------------------------------------

"Lift a finger to help yourself" - do you mean PLAN B, and if I can't, just go to D, since I can't take it or not doing very well with PLAN A? I expect to have about a month to go at the most, I think it would help if I could just 'focus' on me.

quote:--------------------------------------------------
Luna, you think its hard to live without him? [ala Plan B] Can it get any harder than the way you feel now; suicidal? Did you notice that you are suicidal living with him? And it won't get any better on its own. The longer you allow this to go on, the worse it will get.
----------------------------------------------------------

What I am hearing is: "you can't take the heat, get out!" sooner than you planned. Is this what you are telling me Melodylane?


To Losttranslation:
quote----------------------------------------------------
Stop hoping that your WH is going to help you glue the pieces your shattered soul together. He won't. You have to do it yourself. First work on you, getting your life back...then you can try to save your marriage.
---------------------------------------------------------

I guess this is what I am not doing very well - working on myself. But did you not have a really hard period before getting to where you are now? I guess I am missing the 'link'. How to learn to see myself 'separate' from my experience right now with WS.

Just wanted all of you to know that I am feeling a bit better today, but not great. I will 'talk this out' with IC tonight.

I really wish I knew how to 'detach' more and focus on myself - WS's 'barrier' between us, although predictable, is hard to deal with.

If I can't detach, I am subjecting myself to emotional and mental abuse. I feel it's a very "thin line" that I am walking, at a great risk to myself. I need to figure out how can I protect myself while at the same time choosing not to ask WS to leave, and quick. At this stage, my moments of 'suicidal thoughts' have not gotten beyond that, and deep down, I don't think I would ever get to 'acting out' on those thoughts. But, a lot of damage has been done, and I need to reverse this, and it won't be my WS that will do it.

I am sorry for being so honest with my feelings and thoughts. It may be a tough read for some of you, a posssible source of feelings of helplessness as well because none of you can do anything for me, other than trying to get "through to me" with your words.

My next challenge is going to see one of my boys doing a presentation at school in a couple of days and knowing that OW will be there, too. I will need to get a "thick" skin by then. I am trying to fill my mind with this mantra: "I will make it", and see if it will help.

Again, thank you for your concern.

I wasn't talking about not "personalizing" the rejection. Hell, this guy is throwing away twenty years of building someting with YOU--his partner in the whole thing. OF COURSE its personal! It doesn't get any more personal.

I meant turn away--as in get this situation out of your life!

When I came back to the board and skimmed through your posts, it occured to me. I don't like the Plan A, while the A if still actively and admittedly going on. It just seems sick that he can do this. NOT TO MENTION AT YOUR SON'S SCHOOL!

Have we lost all standards of what is acceptable? Are you really being such a doormat? I mean come on!

I think that if he is admitting to being with the OW this weekend... he should be given a suitcase, the door and a SMALL monthly salary on which to live--like five hundred bucks. Not enough for a new apartment, just enough to eat. And I would tell him that you love him, but that you have obligations to the family first. His actions are hurting the boys, you, and the family as a whole. you would love to have him back, when he wants to stop hurting the family.

And if you don't think this is a good idea, then why not?

IMHO, your WH won't get it, until he gets what he thinks he wants. He is NOT going to realize on his own that OW is not the answer he thought he was seeking.

Don't forget: if your ultimate objective is to reconstruct a healthy M, you must have something to build upon in the reconstruction phase. Be careful NOT to endure so much pain (which will later surface as resentment) that you cannot forgive him. To lose so much respect that you cannot love and respect him again!

Ahuman:

I don't like PLAN A either because at some level contact with OW is to be expected, and it's easier said than done.

I try to see him not as my H, but as a WS, which helps both with the pain and the things he says or doesn't say.

I need to really think about what I need to do. It's much harder than I thought.

If I were to be honest right now, I would say that one of my biggest fears is having a "breakdown" either way, because I think I am still in shock. My working base right now is fear-based. I can't figure out how to turn it around so that I can go into action, any action. It feels like a catch-22 situation. I don't know what needs to happen so that I snap out of this 'inaction' mode I am trapped in. Do I really need to hit the bottom? I'd rather not, but I see it coming and can't move. This is a really rotten feeling.

I am really struggling, I won't deny it, but it doesn't mean I don't hear you all. Deep down I probably know what I need to do, but why can't I?

Lunamare,

I feel your pain. and yes, I was there too, walking on thin ice, down to 94 lbs and a nervous wreck. There is no way around this pain and depression, you have to accept it and get through it. I don't know exactly when I saw the light and was able to seperate myself emotionally, It was a process. I first started having good days once in a while and then here on this forum, I finally "got" what plan A is all about.

Don't apologize for being so open and honest about your feelings. That is what this board is for. There are some good people here, they may not be able to take away our pain, but they will accompany us and help us endure it and take away some of the loneliness and help us to grow.

Warm, soothing hugs to you!

"I don't like PLAN A either because at some level contact with OW is to be expected, and it's easier said than done."

"Some contact" is one thing--this just seems more than that to me. I know its just my opinion, but my heck you have been going at this a long time. I really don't think this guy is going to get it unless you put him to Plan B and that is that...IMHO.

What are you involved in other than work and motherhood that keeps you distracted and busy?

It is really hard to plan for the future under these circumstances, but have you tried visualizing your own life?

Have you tried to start imagining and creating your own personal goals. Something just for you. Whether it is doing something to boost your career or to get into shape or to return to school--something any sort of personal goal that you can work toward. Everytime you want to obsess about what WH is doing, TURN your attention to that goal and work on it. I don't see any other way to stay focused on being healthy, while your H is living in your house and openly betraying the family.

P.S. One of my other biggest fears, I figured it might help to name them, is how I would manage financially. It's such a big fear that I can't even manage to sit down and look at the figures to see how I could get by. I see it as such a big mountain that I start to tremble thinking about it, and so I don't go there... Probably because it would mean the need to start to let go of "dreams", and I don't feel I have the time to grief right now: sell our house (couldn't afford to stay in it), kids living in suitcases (because he will want shared custody),etc. and thinking about each one of these feels like a kick in the stomach, and I am already down. Bottom line: the person I need to count on right now, ME, I don't trust to be able to manage. That's what it is. I don't trust myself, I don't have the confidence it takes to make any moves. I feel like I am forced to cross a lake and am not sure I can make it to the other side - I am getting tired. I just realized the images I am giving myself. It might be better if I see myself climbing a mountain and able to take breaks but slowing getting to the top. I need to think about what I am telling myself in my "head". I don't think it's good. Maybe start there: start changing some of the images I am giving myself. I need to start SOMEWHERE. Others have made it, why can't I? (and my defeatist little voice tells me, yeah, but some don't!) I am my biggest enemy, my friends. That's what the bottom line is, and unless I change, I will be paying a very high price.