Seeking,

I've been following this thread and I have to say that I'm truly and deeply moved by your sitch. It has been heartbreaking to read some of the things that you've written, but they've been good for me to apply to my own situation.

I'm pretty junior here, but I just wanted to share a few thoughts with you to add to the many and much more wise posts. My H and I have only been together for 5 years and we've only been married for 8 months; I just found out about his EA 2 weeks ago so the wound is very fresh. I love my husband with my whole soul, he is 2nd in my life only to God; which is where I believe we're supposed to place our spouse. Despite the betrayal and the anger he has directed at me because of my discovery; I am willing to work this out and do what it takes; if he is.

I've made some mistakes and my H has said a lot of the things you are saying; a lot of the same reasons that you give for running to the OW's arms are his reasons for being unhappy. I would do anything to correct my part in that. Even after such a short time and after such a betrayal, I love him that much; and I'm sure your wife would feel the same.

Just something for you to think about...

1. There was a reason, probably many, that you chose your W over the OW 30 something years ago; that reason is probably the same.
2. Instead of dwelling on all the ways your W is different than you and all the negative things you associate with your relationship with her; take out all the old photo albums and look at pictures of you, your family, vacations - reminisce and focus on the good times you had. Find that spark and clear the fog - let the sunshine in - that is what your W should be to you. She can be the sunshine to you instead of this blissful haze you are now living in... and yes it is blissful because as many have said here... it is pretend, wake up from the dream because reality CAN be so much better if you let it.
3. Imagine that you were giving a speech, a biography in essence of your wife, you wouldn't focus on all the negative things, you would focus on her character, her accomplishments... start looking at that again, you'll find the woman you fell in love with. End the A with OW and let your W be what she's supposed to be to you.

Hey FL! Good to see you! Yes, I truly believe that NOTHING is impossible for God! He is the Almighty! This was my quote from the very beginning & it's pulled me through this past year & a half. Through seperation & recovery. I also have a comic hanging on my cubicle at work that shows a man rolling forward over & over & holding his tummy saying, "God can't do what??!" Same thing just very comical. I remind myself that every day when I look at it.

I also have a "Things to Be Thankful For" list at work that I have hanging up. It's a constant reminder that I need to be grateful for even the littlest things & I am.

Sorry Seeking, didn't mean to threadjack! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thank you Finally learning and Just married. I appreciate the feedback and the support. Wow I can't imagine how difficult it must be so early on in a marriage. That would be hard too.

I know you are right and I need to dwell on the positive things of my wife. As anyone in my position knows I have been doing just the opposite. I really have tried to reverse that and when negative things do come up rather than dwelling on them I just skip over it and move on.

There is one other area I'm struggling with in the marriage and maybe somebody can give me some inpu? I tried to explain this in an earlier post but I think I did a poor job.
I admire and appreciate her Chritian walk, but it manifests itself ina way that impacts me in a negative way. From the music I like to listen to (non Christian), to TV shows I enjoy, or movies I like to watch (I'm not talking x-rated here), to the friends we make, it is all according to her choices. If mine are different she does a good job (not intentionaly) of making me feel guilty or less of a Christian. She wants to go to weekly bible studies, which I don't, sometimes I'd like to just read the morning paper and not go to church. Sometimes but not always. Missing church is just not an option with her. These may seem like small things but there are so many more, where we are so different. It's just not that what we enjoy is different, like one likes it hot the other cold it's the things tied in with what she believes that somehow always seems to make me into a not so good person (which of course we all now know is true). I think these are the kinds of things that would be very hard for her to change. I don't think she should have to change, just let me be me and not go balistic over things if I'm not exactly like her. It seems very difficult to try to put into words what I'm trying to say. So even if we get thru all this and move on am I being unrealistic in wanting the marriage to be where I can be who I am not who she wants me to be? She can continue to pray if she wants that I will become more like her but it is working to try to make me into someone I'm not. Am I making any sense here??

yes you are. all of us have things we need to work on and change....but it's really not fair to judge her when she doesnt know the full story. your not giving her the choice to change or do things differently....your still deciding for her. the first step is to tell her the 100% truth. get into counseling with the harleys and she will also realize she needs to change.

keep in mind she may decide to end it and move on....with whats happened its her right.....but ANY religous people i know, and i know quite a few......have ALWAYS chosen the marriage over anything else. these differences will all have to be negotiated in time.....confess first, counseling with the harleys second, then change in behaviors....

Seeking,

Another area that my H & you are so much alike. Are you sure you're not him posting under a different name? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, my H & I couldn't be more different in our approach to our Christianity. I am an avid churchgoer, he's not. I like all the "nice" movies, he doesn't. A lot of what you described is us. What *I* had to do was learn how to let my H be HIM while still maintaining MY relationship w/God. I started reading The Power of a Praying Wife by Stormie Omartian. It has helped me tremendously. There's also The Power of a Praying Husband for men. I believe this book could benefit you greatly. Especially b/c you're not an avid churchgoer. Question -- do you pray? That would be a good question to ask from the beginning for you. If not, it might be a good place to start. You getting a good relationship w/God going on would definitely help you see your W in a better light & see things a little bit more from her perspective. Just a thought.

Since I've been looking to God for my answers FIRST before I go to my H w/my concerns, our M has reached a point that I know God is handling it. I have been having problems getting my children to go to church b/c my H isn't going. I've been seeking God's guidance on it & lo & behold, our children have been missing so much that I took the concern to my H & asked for his help. He finally agreed (after a yr) that he would attend church again so the kids would be more enthusiastic as well. So basically, what I'm saying is...Nothing is impossible w/God. He could change your W or He could change you. You never know. He will determine who is the one who needs to change here. Take your concern to Him & He will show you the right path to take.



Answer -- yes. And this is one of the concerns that you need to address w/her. My guess -- she probably doesn't even realize that she's doing that. You probably need to bring it to her attention. How else would she know that it bothers you unless you speak up? This is what has gotten you into trouble. Instead of speaking up & telling her your concerns & how troubled the M is from YOUR end, you sought out an OW. This pattern has GOT to stop. Once you speak to your W, the communication lines will be open & it's up to YOU to continue to keep those lines open. If you indeed want an honest, loving M, than this is your only option.



Is this what she prays for? 9/10 says that you have no idea what she's been praying for. Do you ask? Do you pray w/her? Do you pray on your own FOR her? Unless you're right w/her when she's praying to God, I don't think you have any clue what she's praying about.

Also, once you tell your W what's been going on & tell her that you would like to rebuild your M, you can direct her here & she can receive lots of support from us to help the both of you heal & recover. You can let her know that you aren't alone & we can help you both follow the MB program.

Now, speaking one Christian to another, what was your Christian walk like BEFORE you started your A, even at the beginning of your M?

To answer the question at the end of your email, I became a Chritian in 1973 one month before we were married. My wife was already a Christian. It has been an up and down walk my entire life, somtimes feeling closer to God and others not. I have been very involved with the church in years past. Even leading bible studies... on marriage no less, served on the board of the Christian school our kids went to, participated in weekly bible studies with other couples most of the thiry two years we have been married. All four of our kids are Chritians, my son is a youth pastor, my other son just graduated from seminary ETC, Christianity has been a huge part of the entire famile's life. Up until three years ago when the A started I was definately walking closer with 'God than I am now. I had colon cancer about 3 and a half years ago and my prayer life really increased during that time. Sometimes I wonder though how true my faith really is, or have I just been going down that road because that was what was expected of me. Being closer to God was the one thing that would make my wife happier and I think that was part of why I continued doing things that a Christian is suppose to do. Since the A started I have been questioning what I truly believe for as you can imagine it's pretty difficult to feel close to God when you are in the midst of a continuing sin like this.

[color:"purple"]Hi 'Seeking'...I have been faithfully reading your posts.
You are a very likeable fellow.
And you are a nice guy regardless of your affair.

HOWEVER...please STOP and confess to your wife!
It is the only way out for you; you know that.

I am wondering if you are honestly even in the
slightest bit considering telling your wife
about this other woman that you have been
seeing for such a long long time?

One thing for sure, you can be honest with us
here at this message board.
We may get on you to do the right thing; but PLEASE
be honest about your feelings and intentions.

Don't try to APPEASE us...some have done that.
However, it's not a good thing when they do.
It doesn't help them or us.

Sincerely, Julie [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Seeking, can't you see? This is why you're questioning things. A temptation came back into your life. You fell for the temptation. It all makes perfect sense. You are human, you fell to temptation. Satan saw that you were getting closer to God, he had to create a situation that he knew you were weak in. Don't get me wrong, & I know some people will slam me for this, it's not the "Devil made me do it" type of thinking. It's just that certain temptations come into our lives & it's up to us as Christians to resist those temptations. Who gives us the temptations? God? No. The evil one. He gives us these temptations, hands them, dangles them in front of us & it's up to us as Christians to resist them. If we are weak in an area, we have to resist harder. We have to pull closer to God so we don't give in to those temptations.



So sorry to hear this. Is everything better now?



Bingo! This is why you feel so w/drawn from your W too. You see she is continuing that Christian walk & maybe a part of you wants to do it too, but you're holding back. He is trying to get you on the right path again Seeking. Please follow His voice. What do you think or better question who do you think led you here to receive the help you so desperately need?

Blessed Time. I really feel I am being honest here, maybe too honest, and because of that I will admit I'm not ready to pull the trigger yet...I want to, I know it is the right thing, I know it is the only way our marriage can get back on the right track, but I'm scared...Scarred to leave the OW, scarred to hurt my wife so much.

Standing together, I know you are right and I know God led me here to this board. I just stumbled upon it one day when I was desperately trying to learn more about what I had got myself in to....My wife will be home any minute so I won't be able to be back for awhile. I really truly appreciate the support and am seriously considering all that has been said. Thank you for your patience with me.
I'll be back...

Seeking,

Just so you know, LB thought you were going to e-mail him. That's why you haven't heard from him yet. I straightened it out & told him that he's supposed to contact you so you should be receiving an e-mail this weekend.

I hope all goes well this evening w/your W. Try to let a little bit more of your "true" self out for your W. You never know. She just might like it.

Sorry for the confusion. I'll watch for LB's email. Thanks....

God bless you. I know how you're feeling. I was in the same situation. I felt the same way about the OW except we weren't HS sweethearts & it didn't last as long as yours, but everything that you say you feel is exactly how I felt at the time I met the OW. We liked the same things, the same TV programs, the same movies, we both liked playing video games, etc.

Now, I'm going to try to comment on all the posts that you have left so I don't miss anything. Bear w/me. I will NOT bash you. I'm not that kind of person. So there are no 2x4's on my end. It's just love & concern as a former WS & Christian.

In response to your first post, Question -- why do you feel that it's harder on OW than you? As far as telling your W, me personally I didn't tell ST at first. I just said that I didn't love her & I wanted to move out cause the M was over. But, thinking back, I realize that not telling her hurt her more than actually telling her. So I would say that there's no point leading your W on making her think that your M is fine. I'm sure your W's not a stupid woman. I'm sure she thinks there's something going on but just not knowing what & I'm almost positive that there's trouble in your M. Not telling her is going to hurt her more than telling her. She'll think, "For 4 years you've been lying to me thinking everything's fine when it hasn't been & why couldn't you be man enough to let me know? That way we can work on things".

You said that you don't know if you will ever feel the same way about your W as you did when you two first got together. And I'm saying to you, you loved her at one point in time or you wouldn't have M'd her. You can't tell me you M'd her out of convenience. So this tells me that you did love her. And you can get those same "feelings" back . It's going to take work. A lot of work . The first step of getting your love back is confession. Please tell her what's going on. You say that you're a Christian. As a Christian, you will do this. It'll be hard but usually the best things in life are hard.

That kind of a R will never happen w/your W if you don't let her know how you're feeling. What you think is wrong w/your M & what you think both of you can do to make it better. The key is communication. Without that, you can't have a lasting relationship. Everything will be built on lies & half-truths.

You need to be true to yourself meaning people have to love you for who you are not who they can turn you into. I know this b/c I was in the same situation with ST. Were you YOU when you & your W first starting dating & first got M'd? If not, that's where the problem started. If so, then she did indeed love you for YOU at first & she can love you for YOU again. You can't have a M based on lies.

I've got a lot of catching up to do on your posts & I'll try to get back to it when I can. Right now I have to get food for my kids. I hope I've helped a little & if you want to talk on more of a personal level, I can e-mail you & give you my yahoo i/m ID & e-mail address.

Lost_boyz

Hey Seeking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <Friendly wave> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I didn't read this whole thread so if I repeat you can lightly bop me in the head with a whiffle bat. I don't come to GQ much.

Uhm, first kudos for seeking help. I am thinking you are either A)looking for ways to end your marriage or B)looking for ways to end the affair. And the first thought I had when reading your original post is that if you don't do one or the other YOU may come up short. Without wife or the other woman. No guarntee ow will leave her marriage. No guarentee wife will stay in the dark forever. Not sure if you thought about that or not but little gremlins put it in my brain for some strange reason, so I might as well share. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Other thought that is hard for me to even believe but [color:"blue"]feelings [/color] [color:"purple"]can't [/color] [color:"orange"]be [/color] [color:"red"]trusted [/color] [color:"green"]!!!!!! [/color] Aren't all these new colors cool!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, it is a basic truth IMHO that hardly any of us live by--feelings can change just like I changed those colors up there. Maybe not quite as easy but our feelings can and often do change. What you felt on your wedding day for instance has changed. I have a sneeking hunch that you may believe that you never loved your wife but unless there was a shotgun involved <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />I feel confident that you were a happy groom watching your bride come down the aisle. But those feeling changed.

So if those feelings can change, your feelings can and probably will change for the ow.

And I will tell you that both my husband and I couldn't stand each other before his affair. I was looking into getting a divorce just a few months before the blasted affair. We had gotten to the point where we had almost nothing in common. And now I think we adore each other.

We went from near loathing or at least near indifference to being all googly eyed in love again. Who knew??!! Certainly not me or him.

Was that easy?? Heck no. Was it worth it? Heck yeah.

But Seeking you will have to tell at some point. You just have to for your own mental health if nothing else.

It will be a hard road but you are a decent guy and I think you are up to the challenge.

And lastly Welcome to MB. Good job being brave and asking for help.

Tiggy

Hi Tiggy. Thanks for the post. A question. You said:
"We went from near loathing or at least near indifference to being all googly eyed in love again." How did that happen? What changed? How do you get from here to there?
Is it all just filling the Love Bank with EN or something else?

Lost boyz. Thank you for all your posts and you and your wife's concern. Sorry about the problems with your mother.

I know I did once love my wife a lot. I felt we had one of the best marriages possible. I'm confused on how to get back there. Both of us are very different people then we once were. You change over 30 years and it is neccesairily together. If we met on the street today I doubt very much if either of us would be attracted to the other. I don't mean just physical. I feel like we need to learn how to love each other all over again...I think it's going to take counceling either with the Dr. Harley or someone else cause I sure don't know how to get from point A to point B. Need to go for now but I'll be back.

Good question and I will try to say how it was for us. I am a little worried that others may read what I say as wrong but oh well, I can't control them right? And I don't know if what we did in the beggining was right or wrong per se, just what happened to us.

First this probably sounds strange coming from my side of the fence but on our dday I had had enough, I wanted out but had a few things to say first. I should tell you that my first husband also had an affair and left for me for the OW. So my fuse was short or possibly non existant to say the least.

Anyway, I printed out divorce papers off line and filled them out and had the emails between he and the ow. We had it out and we were basically saying/screaming goodbye. At one point I asked him how long it had gone on and he lied and said he didn't know. I just got up and walked out. He followed and didn't want me to leave.

That was the beggining. After that I realized within a few weeks that I had taken him for granted too. I started to read my own bitter behavior of always arguing with him, demanding my own way and not letting him *control* me in any way at all. I am not taking blame for his choice to have an affair at all. I just started to see my own miserable contribution to the state of our marriage.

We both slowly saw how we each had become self absorbed and living as if we each were the center of the other's universe--like they would always be there no matter what we did or how little respect or consideration we gave each other.

One book and workbook we worked through--Torn Assunder--had an activity where you talked about things like the first house you lived in, a christmas you remember from childhood, a pet, a favorite teacher etc. Each of us would get 20 minutes of monologue time and the other would just listen. That was a turning point for me anyway. I had never really known some of that stuff about his life before or shared it really either. It was very bonding and felt very good.

After being married for awhile it seemed like we had forgotten how to talk about anything other than business stuff like bills, the kids and what we were doing for the holidays.

And that was one thing that stung me when I realized that the OW offered him an ear, that she listened to him, something I had stopped doing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It hurt to realize that I had contributed to my own pain. I started to listen and really made an effort to not be defensive or pompous. I started to really see his point of view.

Not sure if this getting at the meat of your question or not.

Some of the things he did was to be affectionate just about every day. He would ask my opinion on things--stopped treating me like I was a dummie. He lets me know what he is up to.

And yes, we both actively try to meet each other's needs. It's funny to me that it has become less awkward to meet his needs that I don't really get (like needing that affirmation) and more of a habit. We had gotten into being enemies in many ways before the affair--at times being at odds with each other simply because that is what we always did.

It has taken effort to fall in love again. But we are there. I love him and like him now.

Did that answer your question? I hoping the best for you.

Tiggy

You know I just reread my post and I am going to think on this and come back later with a better how we did it list.

Until then I am positive that others could answer how they got from there to here.

Tiggy