Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1348068 03/31/05 02:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 30
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 30
I sent the following e-mail to my husband this morning:
Quote
So, I've been thinking and thinking and crying and thinking and praying and crying etc etc etc. I even posted the situation that occured on Sunday on the marriage builders website, just so that I could know that I'm not going crazy.

I feel like you think I'm just a big dope and will believe anything. I'm afraid that if I try again you will think that no matter what you do I'll always come back to you. I feel like you won't respect me if I do come back now, and I need to know if that's true.

I have decided that I do want to work things out, but we both know that things can't continue the way they have been. The secrecy tears us apart. I know that we will need to work out how everything needs to work together, but there are some things that I do need to know from you before we even start with the counseling. I need to know if you want to be married, I'm not trying to be a pain in the [censored] here... I know you said you want to work things out, but it doesn't seem like you want to be married and share with me. I feel like you want a wife, but not the constraints of marriage. Please tell me I'm wrong? What do you think marriage is supposed to be or what is your idea of marriage?

Also, I know that if we are to work things out, your friendship with Michelle has to end completely. I know that you are tied to her because of the paper route, but other than the monthly checks/deposits I need to know that the friendship and all contact has ended. I know you said you are willing to do this, I just need you to prove it to me. I ordered a book that should be here early next week, its called Not "Just Friends", its a recommended book for couples that have friends of the opposite sex. I plan on reading it and I was hoping that you would read it with me as well.

I feel very vulnerable right now and I know that we are both going through this... I don't know if it'll help us for me to be home or if its helping us by my not being there, but I know that every day I fall apart when I go to bed and you're not there and when I wake up you're not there. What do you want?

I love you with my whole soul and this week has been one of the hardest in my life (next to the last time we went through this). I never knew how strong and how binding "marriage" would be for me. I thought if I ever encountered anything like this again, I'd walk out the door without looking back. I'm finding that I can't do that, I can't just give up on "us".

I have hope.

I have one last question... please be honest with me on this... do you believe that (in my definition) you can be faithful to me for the rest of our lives together? And are you willing to do whatever it takes to be faithful to me?


This was his reply:
Quote
I am feeling a lot of emotions right now and one of them IS a lot of anger towards you. I do want to work things out but I have some things to say and you need to realize what you are getting into here.

I want you to come over this weekend to see Sammy AS LONG as you can put on a happy face for her. After that I do not think that I want to talk to you until we can see someone. Talk to you about anything that involves "us". We obviously have to talk about the life that we are in and bills and such.

To answer some of your questions here.

What is marriage to me. Marriage to me is being happy with the person that you married and accepting them for who they are. Not putting rules and expectations on them that makes them feel that they have to change into a parody of who they are in order for you to be happy with them. A song and a dance are not what I wanted, if I wanted that I would have stayed married to Stacy. Marriage is knowing that you love somebody and that they are going to come home and love you for everything that you do and everything that you are because you know that they love you and are not looking to replace you.

I have had PLENTY of chances to be unfaithful to you but I haven't because you were more important to me and because you asked that I not and I have respected that. Now you want to know if I think that I can be faithful to you in your definition. Before I answer that I also want to bring up that the other morning you said that Michelle had "Crossed your line". Well, the 2 kind of go hand in hand. NO BODY KNOWS WHAT THE [censored] YOUR LINES ARE because you are always adding to them. I have no idea what your lines are. One time the line was that you didn't want me calling anybody other than you Beautiful, so I stopped ... but if I did does that mean that I crossed the line? This time the word was Lover, so now I cannot say THAT word to anybody and believe me, because THAT rule is so stupid, I will not be saying it to you either! What other words am I not allowed to use? What other rules do I need to know NOW before I find out about them later? If I do not know the full scope of these rules, regulations, requirements and specifications how the hell is anybody else supposed to know them?

Michelle - I know that I said that I would stop being friends with her. I HATE that you are making me do this again. This is the 4th friend that I have dropped for you but somehow that means that I do not love you enough or that my friends are more important to me than you are. I give up, you win, as of right now I am not going to have anymore friends just for you. So that you have no reason to be jealous, petty, insecure, not special or anything else that you come up with. Why should I have friends if all you're ever going to do is ask me to throw them away and trash the relationship that I have built. It's too painful so forget it. I will just become more and more sullen and become an introvert so that I can just concentrate on you, since I never do that now. DO NOT say that's not what you want. THAT IS exactly what you want so you're going to get it. I will try and avoid talking to people here at work or building any relationships at all so that I do not mistakenly have feelings or relationships that you MAY take out of context. We'll see how long that lasts before I just slit my wrists.

Along with that I think that I will also give up all of my dreams just so that I can be where you want me to be at all times. I mean we've already talked about how you do not want me to have an off schedule from you so that pretty much negates a lot of schedules that I would be offered so why bother. Since I need to appease you and make sure that your insecurities and need for me to always be there are fulfilled I will just stay or find a job that I hate and despise so that you are comfortable with all of this. There really isn't any need for me to go to school since what I want isn't really needed ... for now on you just tell me what you think or in my best interests.

What did I think that our marriage was going to be? I thought that you were going to trust me enough so that I could be me, not hounding me or calling me when I'm not where you thought I should be because you think that I'm off doing something nefarious. I thought that you understood that I needed female friends in my life and that with that in mind they were not to replace you but were for me to have some sort of outlet for talking since I do not always want to talk to you about things. I thought our marriage was one where when I forget to do something that I have done frequently that you would not harp on that one instance but instead remember the other times that I DID say or do it.

That is all just a little bit of what I am feeling right now. I am so frustrated with this marriage and with you that I feel that I should just end things any way possible but NO, I do love you and I love who you are. Unfortunately I do not feel that you feel the same about me. You do a TON of stuff for me and you love me tremendously but you also suffocate me in what and how you expect our marriage to be. But none of that matters, in this marriage it's only your way or no way so once again, I will give in and do what you request so that YOU are the only person that has any significance in my life and I hope that that will suffice because right now all I want to do is chew on something life threatening just to make the frustration stop.

I've never had anything but respect for you but it's now getting to the point that I do not respect our relationship because it's one way, your way. You're right in that things do need to change and you are a lot of what needs to change as well! You are not my mother, you are not my guardian and you are not my caretaker. You are somebody that I love and want to spend my life with but not at the expense of my happiness and sanity!

I know its a lot to ask anyone to read all of this, but I need real answers for working this out and I don't really know what to do or say to any of this.

Forever Grateful,

Shannon 27
WH 35


God is waiting to give us a treasure chest, He's waiting for us to hand over our junk first. BW - 27 (Me) WH - 35 (Him) First A - 6/2002 Second A - 3/2005 In MC and trying.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 6
M
Junior Member
Junior Member
M Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 6
I learned from my husbands emotional affair that there are a lot of things I need to change also. Maybe you could express to him that you are aware of these things and willing to work on yourself also. That rebuilding the marriage will include you meeting his needs as well so his lost friendship with the other woman will not be so missed. My husband went to another woman for fulfillment in ways I thought I did just fine, for fun companionship and someone to talk to that did not judge him. Maybe you could extend an olive branch and though it is hard you have to put your pride aside and say you have made mistakes and want to love him the way he needs to be loved

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,383
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,383
OK you asked for it Just Married , and I have to say that for the most part your H reply was 'full of cr*p'.
Sorry but thats my first thought on this.

My overall impression is that there is a serious communication problem between the two of you.
I do suggest you use the Policy of Joint Agreement - called POJA on this site as a basis for making decisions in your M. You can read about it on this web site and print it out. A very sensible approach.

Now the response specifically ......

First of all its not ok to have close friendships with members of the other sex where they impinge on the M. his statement
"Marriage to me is being happy with the person that you married and accepting them for who they are. Not putting rules and expectations on them that makes them feel that they have to change into a parody of who they are in order for you to be happy with them."
Now thats rubbish. M is not about doing what you want when you want with whom ever you want. M is also not "knowing that you love somebody and that they are going to come home and love you for everything that you do and everything that you are because you know that they love you and are not looking to replace you." That comment without some sensible restrictions is utter crap.
Does he mean that as long as he loves you & comes home to you & never wants to replace you he can have sex with whoever he likes???? Come on be serious.
I can just see his reaction if you had a male 'friend' who you insisted he didnt place any "rules and expectations" on while interacting with you & that it was ok that you did 'anything' you wanted because he knows that you love him, will come home to him and have no intention of replacing him. I’m sure he would accept that wouldn’t he???????
So is He arguing for a very 'open' M here for both of you or just for him?????
That is what he seems to be saying - but maybe I have it wrong.

Secondly, he says he doesnt know what your lines are? Perhaps you need to sit down & clearly tell him what they are. I cannot tell from your or his response if he was been told these before but he obviously claims he doesn't know or that you move them. A classic place for using POJA.
I wouldn't worry to much if he uses beautiful or honey with another female I would have concerns if he is using 'lover' though. If it was just 'love' not an issue for me as its a very common non sexual endearment for members of opposite sex - this will depend on the culture of your area to an extent what words are acceptable.

Thirdly, he says this is the 4th female he has 'given' up for you. Frankly a H or W should not have to give up anyone because they shouldn't be friends with anyone without the others support - doesn't mean you even have to like his friends but at least believe its ok to be a friend - I gather from his & your post he can't see any conflict here.
Again POJA would be the thing to use here.

Fourth, his comment "I needed female friends in my life and that with that in mind they were not to replace you but were for me to have some sort of outlet for talking since I do not always want to talk to you about things."
TOTALLY not acceptable. If he cannot talk to you about everything - 'his chosen life partner' then there is a major problem here. He should not have girfriends and remain married to anyone. This is how affairs start.

The gist about giving up all his friends and all his dreams blah blah blah is very immature I am afraid. I suspect he is attempting to use emotional blackmail to have you capitulate and accept his behaviour.

JM, is your H's attitude in general about your M similar to what he has written here?? if so then he has a very twisted idea about M.
Now he may only be angry that you have brought him up on this and refuse to accept his behaviour and therefore is attempting to use emotional blackmail - I have to give up my friends, I'll always be alone now, hints at leaving the M etc etc
Now of course there are issues here, why does he need female friends? well perhaps you are not meeting all his needs just as he is obviously not meeting all yours.

Again you should seek a good MC and try to work this out.

I do think you are right to seek some basis of what he wants in a M. Whoever has taught him his ideas of what a M is obviously didn't have a good one.
However a M should at least be two people working at meeting each others needs, fidelity, love and commitment, Now sure we may screw it up at times but we should at least be working towards those few things at least.

MC is a must, POJA should be used and you are right to have him prove himself with actions, but remember its a two way street, you will need to show actions as well.

So good luck


Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 30
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 30
AW,

Your words ring so true... what I don't understand is why he's so angry at me. In one instance he tells me that I satisfy every need that he has and that he doesn't want anyone else and in the next breath he tells me I smother him and basically blames me for everything. I don't understand and its so hurtful. He hates that I ask him questions, but when he was courting me after the first affair and I'd ask him questions, I knew it upset him so I'd apologize for having to ask, his reply would be "its ok... I made my own bed... I'm just learning how to lie it in" Now he says he hasn't given me any reason to not trust him and that he can't do it anymore so he's done trying.

AW, my lines were drawn and I understand what you're saying about "beautiful" but there was a reason why that wasn't ok... that was a special name that he would say to me every morning when we woke up... he'd say "good morning beautiful, my beautiful" when he used that term towards another woman I was furious because I felt like all that 'specialness' was gone.

I can't stop the dreams, every night its a new dream, we're in a different situation, but there's always another woman. Last night's dream was at a friend's house party/bbq and as we were leaving this woman waves to my husband and says "call me later, k?" then blows him a kiss, he just smiles and nods and then looks at me in disgust.

I just got a text msg from my H asking me to find out about some checks from our mortgage company so I replied that I would and asked him to follow up with the MC about our first appointment... his response was... "This is her FIRST day back, if she calls I'll set up the appointment, if not I'll call her tomorrow like I said I would." The problem is that he leaves for business for the rest of the week on Tuesday evening and we had talked about wanting to go to our first session before his business trip (mostly because when he gets back we're supposed to go away for the weekend).

I just don't understand all the anger and the resentment H has towards me. I feel like I should be the one that's angry, but he can't let me be angry he has to take that away from me.

why does it have to hurt so much.

I'm sorry for the pity party, I just am so confused and I don't know if its even worth trying for anymore.


God is waiting to give us a treasure chest, He's waiting for us to hand over our junk first. BW - 27 (Me) WH - 35 (Him) First A - 6/2002 Second A - 3/2005 In MC and trying.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,383
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,383
JM

hes angry at you because you are spoiling his proposed fun with the OW or OW's as the case may be.
As with many WS he will divert attention away from his own actions by attacking you.
The old story of a good defence is a good attack.

B firm in setting our boundaries and stick to them ... nothing impossible - NO CONTACT, commitment to MC etc etc.

Now though it is a good idea to get WS to make appointments for MC dont let that be used as an excuse not to actually book one. Ring up and book yourself though do be ready to not being able to get in until your H gets back from his trip.

You are perfectly right to question where you are in the M BUT some of the issues I am certain arise from the first affair. I suspect that some issues were not dealt with and so have arisen again this time perhaps worse.

Your dreams are simply your fears of losing your H coming to the surface. That is normal and perhaps you can express those things later on in MC or even better get some IC to help you deal with these things now.

I can now understand your concern with his words to the OW so yes do keep an eye on that as it may be a good indicator of what he is doing.

Now please understand this WILL HURT - as I am sure you know. It hurts because it destroys your dreams and hopes right now for the M and makes you feel isolated and alone.

But a better stronger M could be yours using the various tools set out here in MB web pag. I do suggest you get the books "his needs her needs" - see the book store link above & some others as suggested. I believe many of the book store chains have these books as well.

You need to start plan A and keep strong.. anytime you want to vent come here and yell away.
Learn and understand what love busters are and what are deposits into the love bank - a simple idea but easy to mess up so please read that area carefully..
You may also get some great advice by moving this to GENERAL QUESTIONS 11
Lot of experienced MBers there but it gets slow on the weekends.

So read all you can and get working!!!


Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 106
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 106
Do the words in y'all's Wedding Vows '..FORSAKING all others' mean absolutely nothing to him? What is his take on those three little words I'd like to know! Personally, I don't see anywhere in there where there is room for a THIRD person, especially a woman!!
SDLOM


Ruler of The Tower Of Barad-Dur in Mordor, Middle-Earth, 4th Age, otherwise known as .. today. Located in Granbury, Texas. Primarily I hang out in 'The Kingdom Of Caerlon'
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 5,247
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 5,247
He is using his anger to diffuse yours. He's got you fearful and cowering which is much more pleasant for him than getting his @ss chewed for his bad behaviour which is what SHOULD be happening.

You, Shannon, need a big injection of confidence.

Take control of this situation and stop being fearful of HIS words, actions, and decisions.

He's threatening you so that you will back down and let him continue in his hurtful inappropriate relationship.

NO.

Please go to divorcebusting.com and check out the 180 list. No clinging, no relationship talk, no wringing your hands wondering what will become of you without Mr. Wonderful.

Get a grip on YOUR life. Make good strong decisions for yourself. Live life on the high road -- if his character flaws won't let him live there with you, then what a shame for him. Your life will be great anyway.

Join the Goddess club. You deserve SOOOO much better!

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083
K
Member
Member
K Offline
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083
I agree - divorcebusting.com is going to be a very good resource for you.

He's not acting like he wants to be married. He is using his anger to keep control of a situation. The 180 list and taking action will keep him off guard.

Keep this fact in mind most of all: he says his anger is about you - what you feel, what you think, what you do, and who you are. That is his biggest whopper lie of all. His anger is about him and only about him.

Read "The Four Agreements" some time, and vow to keep the first one - Don't take anything personally."


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,089 guests, and 85 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Zion9038xe, renki, Gocroswell, Allen Inverson, Logan bauer
72,026 Registered Users
Latest Posts
Help: I Don't Like Being Around My Wife
by rossini - 07/20/25 10:36 AM
How important is it to get the whole story?
by leemc - 07/18/25 10:58 AM
Following Ex-Wifes Nursing Schedule?
by Roger Beach - 07/16/25 04:21 AM
My wife wants a separation
by Roger Beach - 07/16/25 04:20 AM
Spying husband arrested
by coooper - 06/24/25 09:19 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,624
Posts2,323,520
Members72,026
Most Online6,102
Jul 3rd, 2025
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 2025, Marriage Builders, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0