AD:

"She said it didn't have anything to do with him. Perhaps she's right."

She's absolutely right. But saying it this way is a clever ploy common 2 WSs who know just enough 2 be dangerous 2 themselves.

*it has nothing 2 do with him.

*it has everything 2 do with the choices she's making, the priorities she has.

*right now, OM is enough of a priority that she's willing 2 sacrifice 1/4 time with her own daughter.

Das da fak, Jack.

-ol' 2long

In my wedding vows, I explicitly pledged never to "abandon nor forsake".

I still carry a copy of my vows in my wallet. They were specially constructed to be extra heavy-duty.

"I take these vows unconditionally and irrevocably.

I AD, take you <miss s> to be my wedded wife,
to have and to hold from this day forward,
for better, for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness as in health,
to love and to cherish as a gift from the hand of God,
and as a sacred stewardship for which I am accountable to God.
I commit my life to you above every other earthly obligation, duty or interest;
above country, family or friend;
above propery, work, pleasure or comfort.
I will never abandon nor forsake you, so long as we both shall live."

Oh, that hurts! I so wanted to do that.

No matter what W has done or not done, I have not fully done what I pledged to do. Perhaps it was a foolishly constructed set of vows. Still, it hurts very much to fall short.

Now, the little tattered piece of paper goes back in the wallet.

-AD

...and now, you need 2 decide whether that's what you are doing.

Plan B is NOT abandonment or "forsakement" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.

Look, if it were me I'd pay, not expecting the ges2re 2 be appreciated. Though this isn't necessarily an emergency, it is medical. I'd pay. Not everybody would though.

-ol' 2long

AD, please do the right thing and put your emotions aside; they are misleading you. You have nothing to feel guilty about.

You can't let your life be driven by emotions. [unless you are a teenage girl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />] I think the reasonable thing to do is allow your W to take care of herself. She has made certain choices in life, now please let her face the consequences of those choices.

And have enough respect for yourself to not volunteer to be manipulated and used. You are not an ATM machine, you are a good man and should not allow yourself to be used. There is absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. Your emotions are misleading you, so ask Mr Logic and Reason to take over and stop this guilt nonsense.

Well, we have to stikingly different POV's!

Thanks 2long, Mr. Ulove!

Thanks Mel!

Now I search my own mind and heart and decide.

Let's see....

On the one hand, I am her husband, and she has a legitimate need.

On the other hand, she has the IRA - and if it's so all-fired important, she can pay for it herself (with some penalty - which I'll probably end up paying).

ASIDE:
HEY, does anybody have a quick answer to a tax question? If we are D'ed this year, do we file as married (since we were married part fo the year), or separately. It would be cheaper to file as married.

We got married in December, and I was able to file as married that year. What is the rule? Oh wow, what if a person were married to two different people within the same year? The rule may be "if you were married on the last day of the year, you can file as married". That would prevent any confusion wrt which of the people you were married to you should file jointly with.

=AD

Ad,

I am a lurker here and I have just finished reading your whole post.

Your wife is an immature child and needs to grow up a bit. I am a SAHM to 2 children, go to school full time, and my husband and I jointly share the household responsibilities. There is no stomping around when I lose stuff or have had a bad day. You suck it up until you can get away for a break.

Unless its about your DD, You need to let her pay for, do, work, and take care of things on her own. She is a big girl, a mother and has been in the states 9 yrs!

At some point in our lives we have to stop letting the past and our families keep us from our own sucesses. Your wife is only a victim and child because she wants to be.

It doesn't matter why she married you.....she did. And now she has to deal with the divorce by herself.

She is getting her ducks in row ( dentist, citizenship, ect) before the divorce is final. Of course she will attempt to get you to take care of all she can before you are no longer financially responsible.

I do realize as parents, we can make mistakes, however when your daughter seems to demonstrate similar tactics that your wife uses, it's time to take a closer look. Your daughter is 4, but your wife is an adult!

Just wanted to drop in and give my 2Cents

Good Luck,
Rachel

Hi Whistle75,

Good to meet you.

Thanks for your comments. I think you are right, more or less.

I will say, that while my W is not a child, she does suffer from PTSD, which sometimes has to be taken into consideration - though it doesn't have anything to do with dentistry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You're 29. She's 26. You are both Mom's. You can relate.

-AD

Ad,

What is PTSD?

My husband has Bipolar disorder, and until it was diagnosed things were pretty crappy. He has been on meds since August and boy...things have changed!

At times he still exibits certain bipolar behaviors, and I do make certain allowances, but not when it is effecting the kids. We have an understanding with his BPD....if he's having "a day" (which isn't often), he just gives me heads up about it. Basically it lets me know he's feeling depressed and needs some time to take a walk, go window shopping, Home Depot <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, ect..

I am glad to see you know when to remove yourself from volatile situations.

On another note:

I was thinking about what you said about your wife "wanting to be taken care of"

I understand there are couples out there who enjoy that relationship model, however, doesn't the wife take care of the husband too?

I mean....if one is going to be the breadwinner and the other wants to stay at home... there is still an equal partnership there. Instead of two people sharing in the same responsibilities, each takes different parts they are responsible for, right?

I just sense a lot of guilt from you, and in my own way I am trying to tell you that what you want out of your marriage is perfectly reasonable....you can have a partner and still take care of her.

I guess her leaving the water in the microwave while you do her schoolwork thing kinda bothered me. If my husband did that for me I would brew him a freshpot and throw in a little something else to boot:)

It seems in a way you've grow accustom to settling for less than you deserve from someone. I hope you can have the opportunity to show your daughter a different relationship model someday. So that she can see it takes two.

Again..only good thoughts for you,

Rachel

Whistle,

PTSD == Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

My wife was born in a war, was the only survivor and witness of a massacre at the age of about 5 - in which everybody she knew was killed before her eyes - did a year or so in an (really poor) orphanage (during which time she reportedly did not speak at all), was adopted internationally (and into a different language) by what turned out to be an abusive mother.

She broke her back in a "fall" at the age of 17 - well, actually she jumped, but she told people at the time that she fell. She still has problems from that spinal injury.

Then she was sent abroad (at 17) to USA - where she knew almost nobody etc. etc.

She married me at 19.

So, she's been rather thoroughly traumatised many times in her life - over long periods of time. She's very anxious, irritable, and fearful much of the time.

That's hard to live with, but I would stick by her - if only she totally, finally and absolutely broke off the A with OM.

She deserves to be cut a little slack.

-AD

Whistle,

I forgot to say "Wow!, You read all that!"

Thanks for reading and commenting. Really.

-AD

AD

I have been reading your posts for so long its like you're a long lost friend...didn't feel I could help much though.:(

I have gone through a range of responses throughout your most recent months from being angry for your little DD, annoyed at you, really really wanting to hit you with a 4x2 a few times, to wanting to do the same to your w... its a bit weird [maybe see some of the old me in her]..lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

However I thought I'd add my 2 cents - being the only one that hasn't - about your situation.
[Whistles75 PTSD is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder way too big to discuss here - result of trauma in things like war, disasters etc]

So here goes.....

Your wife fits the PTSD mould perfectly ...alienation of affection, altered response states, the continuious 'search' for whatever - her case I suspect a safe haven for her internal child AND adult person, endless night time wonderings - and it will not just go away.
I know this because my H has suffered from it due to the war since he came back from Afghanistan the first time and the 4 other deployments since.........each time getting worse, each time killing a bit of the man I married.
But its not impossible to treat, it has & is being treated very effectively ..if the person is willing to go to treatment.
IF you are thinking of a final try & she is willing she if she would go to this type of couselling - even if you have to change the name of it to group discusson or whatever. IT WORKS [if you do get her to do it pass along the secret & I'll try it on my H] I've seen the other H's aftewards.
My H just got back pretty banged up from the war yesterday & I expect as do the Army psyches PTSD issues - prob big ones.

Now the other thing which I see here and probably would have been of immense help when asking some advice would be to remind people here of the enthnic issue - which is sort of tied to the PTSD due to your ww history.
Cultures do differ greatly and it is naive to think it does not impact on how a person reacts or interacts even in M & pesonal relationships.
My Aunt is Phillipino and I love her heaps and she dotes on me like a big sister more than a Aunt being only 6 yrs older, but she just could NOT understand how my H did not throw me out with nothing after my A or beat me up or punish me somehow like that because thats what she was brought up to expect...not that its right but just that what she was taught. Even after 20 yrs in OZ the first thing she said after the shock wore off after I told her was 'He didn't even hit you?? Doesn't he love you?' sort of put me back a bit. So culture does affect how we do things for sure.
Have you thought how can you use this info to your advantage in working towards a solution??? maybe it can be??

The other thing I noticed is that MAYBE you could seek professional help from someone like Steve HArley or a trained counsellor within her own cultural group ..in OZ we have so many like Chinese-Aust Society for instance etc etc so I'm sure you do to.

Anyway just my 2 cents worth and maybe it can trigger some idea for you to try...I hope so it seems you both want each other but she cant seem to 'get' there.

wishing you and your family all the best

AW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Oh P.S.

typing is stuffed but you try to type at 2 am while your H is clumping around the house on crutches when he should be getting better sleeping in his bed !!!! Why are men so freakin stubborn!!!

AW,

Well, I never knew who was reading!

My wife is (culturally and linguistically) Russian. Russians don't believe in psychologists etc. In the bad old Soviet days, psychaietry was just way to dispose of politically troublesome people.

She, however, is a psych student - and has been a few times to a counselor.

I think that early childhood trauma has rather different and more permanent effects than adult trauma - not to in any way minimise what your poor H has gone through, but a little child cannot understand what is happening, or what has happened. A little child cannot even communicate what he/she experienced or feels.

Our daughter is around the same age that W was when the massacre occured. I cannot imagine what an effect something like that would have on her.

Nobody even really knows what happened. Nobody knows where, when or to whom W was born. She was just found there in the burning village, wandering amongst the dead - with some burns and schrapnel injuries. The took her to an orphange - in a place which spoke a different language than her home village. She doesn't know how long she was there - but thinks it was at least a year because she remember the changing of the seasons.

I ... forget sometimes....

To me, she is a wife, but part of her is still stuck in childhood as she was on that black day - and part of her feels like a 100 years old - tired of life.

I forget sometimes.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

She's been to hell already - and part of that damned war is still rattling around in her head all these years later. I think I'll cry now.

Leaving her is the hardest thing I've ever done.
If anything happens to her - if she does not find some kind of happiness, I think I may never forgive myself.

AD, she needs to go though this to find out that she does in fact love you. It is no longer about what her parents "forced" her into.

She NEEDS to go through this so she can be happy being with you. So it will be HER choice this time.

You are doing the right thing. Please don't doubt that.

And if she should fall, you will be there for her. We all know that about you.

Just like with the money for the caps. You are not able to turn your back on her. But you need to try for now, so she can find her way to you, of her own free will.

Your love is true AD, and you are doing the only thing you can, for all concerned.

AD

nothing wrong with crying..I do a lot of it lately..I expect I'll do more too...thats ok its part of being human.

I understand what you are saying from the childhood issues but please know that they have GREAT success with PTSD resulting from childhood trauma ...more so than adult induced issues apparently... but it takes work and good counsellors.
I suspect the worst of her issues result from the rejection she felt from her second family on top of the other things but of course she needs professionals to sort all of that out.
Its obvious you love her, its clear that you want your DD to have a loving stable mum regardless of the M situation.

OK, so why not get professionals involved by way of both MC and IC's having no expectations of a recovered M but rather a good mum for your DD.
If she gets the help she just might be able to cut OM off once and for all and maybe THAT will allow some recovery work to proceed.

I take it you can get formal separation agreements before Dv where you are??? Why not do that first and see if she will see a IC & MC...yes it will be bloody hard to get the right ones but isn't your DD worth it??

Look dont look for miracles or sudden changes in her behaviour, I think you know it will take a long time and You may still end up Dv of course...but your DD will have a much better mum if she does get help.

all the best ..bed awaits me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Weaver,

Well maybe she does need it for something, but I'm sure she doesn't love me. She's used to having me around to take care of thing for her, but she certainly doesn't love me. Maybe she did, briefly, a long long time ago.

I think it is more likely that she will feel that she can never trust me to be there for her - to take care of her when she needs help. Of course, I know ("we" MBer's know) that I've removed myself because of the A, but does she know/believe that - that if she were faithful to me, I would always be there for her? I don't think so.

But miracles do happen. I'm still wearing my ring.

-AD

Oh AW, you still up?!

Maybe you're right about the counseling etc. We're so far down the road to D now, I don't know if we can get back to that. I don't know if she will trust me or whatever. Our interactions are so strained now. OM apparently is kind to her - with his words - while I try to be kind with actions - not, apparently, so good at words. She won't give him up. I'm pretty sure of that.

Sorry. I'm OK, really, but not having a great day here.

-AD