Just wanted to follow this all up with this observation from MY situation.

I rearranged my work (in truth, have jeopardized my job to some degree) to allow me to be able to IM my wife all day long. She had the EXACT same kind of situation as the two of you...intense, day long IM conversations with her OM, interspersed with occasional e-cards and loving emails. But, given all of this, she's found that she doesn't NEED that steady communication from me...she likes it, she appreciates it, but if things prevent me from being able to IM her, it's absolutely not an issue for her. And to me, it appears that the reason for that is because I'm meeting her need for loving communication in other ways, by spending time with her at nite when I'm home, occasional calls during the day, etc...

You both sound as though you still miss these intense 'chat sessions'...I'm just trying to point out that it's very possible that you would find if you could still have them that they are no longer NEEDS for you. I've got a friend over on LS who's situation is almost exactly like mine...even caused by the same game. And his wife has responded the same way...he can chat with her, and she's just now getting to where she might start accepting his meeting her needs, but she doesn't NEED that kind of interaction now.

Hang in there friends...I really think that it will get easier for you as time goes on!

2BN,

We aim to prod around here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

JL

Karegh, I don't think I miss the long intense email conversations that I had with the OM anymore. These have not occurred since the end of December and I have gotten used to not having them during the very rough withdrawal of that first month. What I miss are the EN's the OM met through the emails and also the friendship I had with him. Do you see a difference in that? Or am I tying this all in one?

I'm not sure I would have accepted the same kind of communication from my husband right when I was in intense withdrawal from the OM. I think that's great that you provided that for your wife when she needed it, but I just don't think I would have wanted that at the time from my husband.

2B-

Not sure that I do understand. WHAT, specifically, is it that you miss? What was it about that communication that you wish your husband could duplicate for you? Be specific, and be honest. Then try to help figure out HOW your husband can meet that need. After that, it's just a matter of communication, hopefully.

The needs are - feeling romanced, affection, words of affirmation...there are probably more along these lines and I can't think of how I would word them right now. I have communicated these needs to my husband. We have discussed them and identified them. He has made little improvements. The words/actions I wish to hear from my husband are "not natural" for him to express, and that has been what I have been trying to express here. Even though these were met by the OM, I do realize that these things I'm desiring are also quite normal for a new romance. The OM was a mushy romantic type of a man. My husband has never been this type of man. Totally opposite. Now, I knew this about the OM way before the A started. If you remember I had talked to him for quite awhile before we went into the affair. Even though my husband was not this type of man, I still was attracted to him by his many other great qualities and married him. So do I concentrate on the qualities that attracted me to my husband years ago and forget about these other needs? My husband and I have talked quite a bit about this. I cannot make him into a mushy romantic man. That is just not him. Does this make sense now?

This statement of yours [and many other FWS] proves why it is an exercise in futility to try to meet a WS's emotional needs during and [immediately right] after the affair. In fact Dr Harley himself says the following [which seems to always get lost on many people here]:


Notice the word after for it is very important as BS who attempts to fulfill the WS's emotional needs under those circumstances, not only fails to get the WS to accept the attempt but also generate more distrust and anger from the WS. The WS may view the attempt as disingenous and only a temporary effort from the BS lasting only until the affair ends and the OP is out of the picture for good. Couple this with the fear the BS has expressed in losing the WS, and it is not surprising why the WS not only loses practically all respect but also any fear he/she had about the consequences of his/her affair finally being revealed. Don't beleive me? then just read the stories of WS whose BS acted like I've just explained and those whose BS didn't give no quarter and left them soon after D-day. In the latter cases, the WS almost always panicked and pursued the BS and pleaded to be given another chance. Granted this scorched earth tactic does nothing for the marriage except to expedite its demise. But it does show how important it is for the BS to show emotional strength and resolve in order to help wakeup a foggy WS who doesn't beleive that his/her affair will destroy the marriage and to also gain some lost respect for the BS [There can be no love without respect]. So what this seems to demonstrate is that trying to meet the EN of a foggy WS is more detrimental than good for the marriage and for the BS.

TMCM



*From Dr Harley's MB website article What Are Plan A and Plan B?

Yes it does make sense but your H [like most men] probably had to pursue you and woo you in order to get into your heart and he most likely had to express his love for you when he proposed to you, so I don't totally beleive that he should be left off the hook just because he is not a 'natural' romantic like the OM. And while it is true that you can't force your H to become more romantic, he has learned the hard way that your emotional needs should not be neglected for they were important enough to temporarily give your heart and body to another man when said man came along an fulfilled them.

TMCM

Well....no proposal or wooing from my husband. We lived together for 4 years before marriage and we just went out and bought a ring. No romance there. None. He realizes this now reflecting back, but we can't change history, only the future!

TMCM:

Very interesting ideas Coffee Man, but seems contradictory to some other advice we WS in EA’s have received. I am in very similar situation as 2BN, & struggling to find my way back to H from OM. I had the understanding that the BS should immediately begin trying to meet the EN’s ASAP. So….. when will we, as WS’s be receptive to our H’s meeting our needs? When withdrawal is completely over? And when exactly is that? When all thoughts of OM are gone? I explained on my thread that I am having difficulty making the “jump” from OM to H, even though the EA is definitely over. How can H help me do that without smothering me with things I am not ready for?

You also stated:

But it does show how important it is for the BS to show emotional strength and resolve in order to help wakeup a foggy WS who doesn't believe that his/her affair will destroy the marriage

How does a BS help “wakeup” the foggy WS? I don’t feel my H is demonstrating “emotional strength” & “resolve” right now. I believe he has minimized my EA in his mind, and does not know how to approach the problem. I think he is waiting for me to take the lead and instigate what we need to do to repair the problems.

2BN, maybe answers to these questions will help us. Thanks!

[color:"midnightblue"]'cardsonly', yours has been a thread I have been following since you first started it.

If you go back and read what you wrote in the beginning posts, you will see how far you have come.

I don't think you will EVER forget your OM friend.
We are not made that way.

I am the kind of person that if I am on an airplane, having a conversation for several hours with someone (male or female) I feel a certain sadness that never in my life will I see or talk with that person again.

So to even think of never talking again with a person that you have been REALLY CLOSE to, that fulfilled many emotional needs, made you feel special ((like a school girl) gave you affection and attention through his emails )....well, of course you won't forget.

But that doesn't mean your marriage can't improve and be the way you have always hoped and dreamed it could be.

I used a quote from you in a message on 'Mixed Molly's' thread. I hope that was alright.

If not, I would be glad to go back and delete it.

Sincerely, Julie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />[/color]

I changed the title of my first post, but it doesn't change the rest of them. Is this something that can't be done?

I agree that we will never forget the OM, but I expect as time goes on, the way we view the OM will change. Are there any other FWW's out there that can help us with this? Is there a time that you get to when you start to view the OM as bad? Or do some always look back and don't think of the OM as being bad? My husband keeps telling me that the OM is a bad person and I still don't view the OM that way. I view what we did as bad, but not the OM. Is this part of the fog?

Well, this FWW has an opinion (what's new??!!). As time as progressed, I see both the good and the bad sides to OM. I don't think of him as a bad person, but I do see more of his faults than I used to.

Romantic love, that feeling of infatuation with the relationship with a new person, has a tendency to skew how you see your new person. You see nothing bad in him, even his faults look wonderful to us. My OM drank quite a bit...I thought it was cute. OM loved to use profanity....I thought it was part of his colorful personality. Get the picture? He also had a great sense of humor and could be very sweet, which I still think are true.

He has good points and bad, just like the rest of the human beings on earth. As time progresses and those feelings of infatuation fade, you'll probably start to see both more objectively. That's true in my case at least. I'm more objective now 3.5 months past d-day.

If cheating on a spouse makes anyone a bad person, then we too are bad people, eh? We are all human beings...mixed with good and bad traits, all of which we endevor to improve.

Bottom line is I love my Husband more than anyone else on earth. OM is becoming more distant the more I concentrate on that. So I hope for you too.

JMHO -
GS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi all, I haven't been involved in this thread and I apologise I haven't read all of it either.

I'm a FWW, very well known on the MB board (aren't I JL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) and I wanted to give you some encouragement and some thoughts. Because I think you ARE doing well.

Believe me when I tell you, you are repeating everything I said about 18 months ago word for word. And also believe me when I tell you that JL and TMCM and all the others know EXACTLY what they're talking about. They are REALLY worth listening to. I give JL credit for saving my marriage (even though he gives me a bit of credit too. LOL).

The feelings DO come back for your H and, honestly, indifference to the OM becomes a way of life. It's like something that happened to another person a long, long time ago.

JL, I never believed you when you said that one day I would be indifferent. Not only indifferent, but the OM has gone from my mind as well as my life.

Keep moving forward. You'll make it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jen

You have no idea how good that makes me feel. Thanks GS. It has been a really rough week for me, sorry about that. Your words of encouragment, give me something to grasp ahold to, so I dont fall off the deep end sometimes.

thanks for that
ILU

beavis

Karegh - hoping you will see this today. I need your advice and help with something you have been after me to do and I am ready to face this now. I want the OM to change his password to his email and I will change mine as well. I'm tired of "looking" in the empty email accounts and can't do this forever or it will make me insane! I looked today and the OM deleted all the contact information for me...phone numbers...etc. He must be ready as well. Last week the OM left a note in the address book that said "Good-bye!" He left it in mine and in his as well. I replaced it with the words to the hymn "I Surrender All". I have now deleted it (the words) and if I am really surrendering all of this to the Lord, then I HAVE to really surrender EVERYTHING and that includes the access to each other's email accounts. I know in my heart that what I did was still considered contact with the OM. When I saw his words "good-bye!"...it hit me that we have to get rid of these accounts!

I have 2 ways to do this: Either I can just change my password and the OM will get the hint and change his. Or I can have my husband leave an email in his inbox to ask him to change his password. I'm thinking of the first idea, but still scared to do so. I'm scared of either plan, but I know for my own sanity and moving on with my marriage I HAVE to do something!!

Well the OM left a message in his inbox this morning labeled -Please do not respond -

He gave me an update that I had asked him awhile ago about a situation his son was in. That was it and I didn't respond. Now what????? I was very surprised he did this.

2B-

I'm very sorry I've been out, my friend. I've been sick, and that's made it hard to get the time to post here.

It sounds to me like you don't really need my assistance here...you've already looked at the options. You're ready to make the next step...that is SOOOO awesome!!!

Personally, I'd suggest that you do both options...change YOUR password, and have your husband place a note in the OM's inbox (or have you do with your husband right there with you, whichever is best) asking that he change his password. Make it clear that you're ready to move on, but that you want this method of contact blocked so that you can't 'stumble' and resume contact at a later date.

As far as the message that the OM left in his box...honestly, why care about it? Take the steps you need to in order to finish letting him go...and let that be the end of it.

Seriously, you should pat yourself on the back for being ready to do this...it's a tough step, and its a wonderful thing that YOU recognize that you're ready for it. BE PROUD OF YOURSELF!!!

Surprised? don't even go there...don't give this your time and thought.

Block him

Change your focus

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Karegh - thanks for the encouragement. I "was" ready to do this yesterday, but now I'm hesitating again. If you have a chance, look at what I posted on Card's thread yesterday. I'm having some turmoil inside about this. I know why the OM left the message this morning. I had been praying about this situation which happened after D-Day concerning his son and prayers have been answered. So I am happy for that.

My husband has been in so much stress at work these last 2 weeks, that I don't want to add to his stress right now with telling him this. I am just mixed up inside today!

Oh - and sorry you have been sick! Hope you feel better soon!

2B-

I just posted a reply on CARDS thread, and then came and looked at your post here again.

I don't mean to hurt you friend, but I'm afraid I'm gonna have to do something you've not seen me do yet. Time for a 2x4. I really mean this as a friend, but there's no nice way to say this, so I apologize in advance.

Do NOT use your husband as an excuse for not doing this!!! That is one of the most common excuses you'll see people make when trying to 'justify' something like this, or even anything involved in the A at all...."I didn't want to hurt my spouse!". It's an EXCUSE...NOT a reason!

I'm sorry my friend. I can see your point, but I just CANNOT let you try to avoid doing this because you don't want to hurt your husband. He's already been hurt, already been through a ton of stress over all of this. It's the fact that it keeps going on and on and on, with new things coming up every week that's gonna drive him crazy. You can't keep trotting out little things over and over for him to deal with...because he WILL reach a breaking point eventually. At some point, you run the risk of him NOT wanting to believe you anymore.

GET THE SLATE CLEAN....TOTALLY....NOW!!!

Then he can start trusting you again. Then he'll feel safe with you again...after you've demonstrated the changes you've promised. But in truth that's not really happened yet. You're STILL holding out on him!!!

2x4 done now. Think about what I've said. You're a great person, and now it's time to SHOW that!